Armor Balance: How it should work.

Emmagoldman · January 2017

I do think they are getting closer towards balance in terms of armor. My main is a mag sorc but I think on a positive note there are more heavy armor users. Im all for tanks feeling like they have a place in pvp and previous there werent many running arounf.

There are several heavy armor sets that need a slight nerf such as black rose. We shouldnt have massive resits and massive regen. These sets need a slight nerf.

I think light could use a slight, and very slight buff in passives in either provacation (reduce spell cost) or the passive for crits. Again, slight, talking 1 or 2%, nothing more.

The problem is zos doesnt know were to bring balance. When they do, instead of small changes they go way opposite and overboard.

I would prefer for them to address first proc and armor sets, then get into changes to passives and abilities.

Animus-ESO · January 2017

This is exactly how armor was in the beginning of ESO, What ended up happening was we got "Elderstaves Online" Everyone was in cloth armor the same way everyone is in heavy armor now. It's not balanced. Heavy armor is supposed to have bad sustain, Yeah you can take a beating but you cant dish it back out as hard. Only reason Heavy armor is doing so well right now is wrath passive combined with black rose for sustain. It is rare an OP build doesn't use black rose right now because it takes away heavy armor's biggest weakness, Resource management.

Durham · January 2017

Black Rose is so overated...I have stopped using it... Its a good set dont get me wrong....There are better sets now if you know the mechanics ... most people are clueless how to play in heavy armor ..I get my stamina back from a different passive .... I have played it since before the buff ...

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2017

It's not even as straightforward as the armor mechanics. A lot of the light armor sets are crap compared to medium and heavy sets.

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

It is rare an OP build doesn't use black rose right now because it takes away heavy armor's biggest weakness, Resource management.

Speak of resource management, one of the big things I noticed switching from light to heavy was that I actually had stamina. I was so used to having to save all my stamina to break free. Even without black rose, that's a big advantage for magicka builds, which otherwise has to sacrifice either damage or sustain just to be able to break free every 7 seconds. Switching from light to heavy, I find that I can occasionally block, and even manage to get in a dodge roll every once in a while. If I did that in light armor, I'd be toast as soon as my CC immunity was up and I got stunned again.

bg22 · January 2017

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

This is exactly how armor was in the beginning of ESO, What ended up happening was we got "Elderstaves Online" Everyone was in cloth armor the same way everyone is in heavy armor now. It's not balanced. Heavy armor is supposed to have bad sustain, Yeah you can take a beating but you cant dish it back out as hard. Only reason Heavy armor is doing so well right now is wrath passive combined with black rose for sustain. It is rare an OP build doesn't use black rose right now because it takes away heavy armor's biggest weakness, Resource management.

Yup... which was why I tired of the game. I refused to wear LA and couldn't compete with others who were my skill level... It was awful.

bg22 · January 2017

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I do think they are getting closer towards balance in terms of armor. My main is a mag sorc but I think on a positive note there are more heavy armor users. Im all for tanks feeling like they have a place in pvp and previous there werent many running arounf.

There are several heavy armor sets that need a slight nerf such as black rose. We shouldnt have massive resits and massive regen. These sets need a slight nerf.

I think light could use a slight, and very slight buff in passives in either provacation (reduce spell cost) or the passive for crits. Again, slight, talking 1 or 2%, nothing more.

The problem is zos doesnt know were to bring balance. When they do, instead of small changes they go way opposite and overboard.

I would prefer for them to address first proc and armor sets, then get into changes to passives and abilities.

Yea... tanks should definitely feel tanks. They shouldn't, however be able to roll there face across the keyboard and ROFLstomp you with DPS.

hassubhai · January 2017

Eso definetly shouldn't be balanced like rs not at all

bg22 · January 2017

hassubhai wrote: »

Eso definetly shouldn't be balanced like rs not at all

Wut?

Anti_Virus · January 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Heavy Armor:
- Decent Spell damage
- Superior Spell resistance
- Decent Weapon damage
- Superior Physical resistance

it should be light armor magicka dps, medium armor stamina dps, heavy armor tank non dps

No, that is not balance. The Spell resistance should be poor.

thats a matter of opinion, for me tanks are tanks (read heavy armor users) and shouldn't be able to do dps, but have great survivability

Although, it could be balanced if "decent" is subpar at best. Both approaches could be tested on the PTS to see what works best.

But with your approach it doesn't really have a weakness.

In theory, my approach allows for mages to be superior (1v1) against heavy armor, but weak against medium armor. While Medium armor would be superior against "mages", but weak against heavy armor.

^ Nah

Lol RuneScape I loved that game.

bg22 · January 2017

hassubhai wrote: »

Eso definetly shouldn't be balanced like rs not at all

Why?

YetiSpaghetti · January 2017

rock paper scissors is the worst type of balance. every armour type / class should perform evenly. it SHOULD all come down to skill. THAT IS BALANCE.

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2017

YetiSpaghetti wrote: »

rock paper scissors is the worst type of balance. every armour type / class should perform evenly. it SHOULD all come down to skill. THAT IS BALANCE.

Exactly! If light armor is going provide less resistance, it should provide other bonuses to make up for it. I think all the armor should have the same base armor values, and the only differences are in what the passives are. That would be balanced, since ZOS seems to want some kind of parity between magicka and stam, rather than have them fill specific roles. There is no reason why you should have to be squishy to to use magicka abilities effectively. The light armor is freaking magic. It doesn't matter that it's "just cloth" -- it's magic cloth.

You'd think maybe Annulment would be the answer, but it only lasting six seconds, it is useless to counter, say, proc sets. If Annulment worked liked Hatchling's Shell while slotted, maybe.

iseko · January 2017

Imho its more then armor balance really. Heavy armor gives nice sustain for stamina builds. Only one resource pool needed for both offense and defense (block, heal, roll dodge and break free). Offensive stamina skills cost a lot less then magicka skills. I can walk around in full HA with 500 stam regen and block + attack no problem. Cant do that on magicka builds. I have to get hit though in order to sustain. Fighting someone who has a lot of mobility is a pain (chasing costs stamina im not getting back)

Main problem with (most) stamina skills/builds is that they are single target. Magicka has more aoe dmg and more group utility. They are harder to sustain though since they cost so much more. Shields are *** compared to dodge roll and block. So what magicka gains in utility/aoe it loses in defense/sustain.

Then u got stamsorcs just aoe loltrolling through zergs. Or kena with his new NB saptank purge spamming build completely countering everything I just typed above.

Anyhow, I think armor is pretty balanced. If you are in a large group/zerg then LA is not a problem. Small scaling then either u go glass tank MA or HA for survivability. LA in 1vX 2Vx is hard/impossible unless ure a sorc.

LA and MA will still push out way more dmg and sustain then HA. By a loooooong shot. HA has average sustain. Average dmg. More survivability. Seems pretty balanced to me.

bg22 · January 2017

YetiSpaghetti wrote: »

rock paper scissors is the worst type of balance. every armour type / class should perform evenly. it SHOULD all come down to skill. THAT IS BALANCE.

So balance means all abilities, weapon skills, weapons and armors should do the same thing?

YetiSpaghetti · January 2017

bg22 wrote: »

YetiSpaghetti wrote: »

rock paper scissors is the worst type of balance. every armour type / class should perform evenly. it SHOULD all come down to skill. THAT IS BALANCE.

So balance means all abilities, weapon skills, weapons and armors should do the same thing?

Straw man argument. I said they should perform evenly, not do the same thing. Big difference.

If someone wearing heavy armour meets someone in light armour, he shouldn't automatically lose based on armour type. It should be an even fight. The tank should survive longer but deal less damage. The light armour should have stronger heals to make up for the lack of armour. FIGHT COMES DOWN TO SKILL (in capitals since you lack reading comprehension).

Baconlad · January 2017

Want to watch game balance happen over night? Revert the damage shield battle spirit nerf. Medium armor is and should rely of strong dodge chance and active dodge rolling and self healing. Heavy armor works right by simply mitigating damage of all kinds in massive amounts (needs buffed in my humble opinion) and self healing. And light was supposed to be reliant on bubbles and self healing. As far as defense and armors go currently in ESO, the defense should be relatively equal, with equal times invested in defense. For example, if I beat on a dude in heavy armor it takes me one minute of beating on him to bring him down to 10% health. Than it should take me roughly the same time of beating on a medium armor dude or light armor dude to get him to 10% health.

This goes for no matter the class or the spec (mag or stam)...

Having said that. Take my game advice with a large sum of salt...i also do not believe any class abilities should ever have made it to stamina morphs...instead of expanding on stamina they took away magic abilities...like crescent sweep going to physical now...***