Yeah, I can completely agree with this. Stamina needs some PvE love.

Stamina is dying, and the worst thing is for example stamina nb, depends a lot on high end gear ( cough MA daggers cough), unlike any magicka class. My friend does 40k dps in trials with no MA weapons ,he started playing 2 months ago, cp 350. I'm a stam nb i have only 1 MA dagger so far cause it's stupidly hard to get them, and yet i can't even get close to his dps, even though i have gear which is much harder to get. They really need to change the gap for it, like lower the dps from MA weapons for stam classes. But increase their dps without them, and MA weapons can become like the real high end, if u want the highest dps possible.

LiquidPony wrote: »

DangerMan wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you guys have any buffs for Stam characters planned in PvE? We don't need specifics till you've worked those out, but can you please at least let us know what the direction you're headed in? @Alcast made a thread recently about a similar topic and it had some great comments in there - not sure if you've seen that yet. But with all the upcoming changes it seems Stam characters are going to be pushed even further out of trial leaderboard squads due to a lack of survivability and almost the same amount of damage as their Magicka counterparts who can shield their way through hell.

Can we at least get some sort of communication in regards to this? Or are we heading back towards Elder 'Wizards' Online?

I believe "Skirts and Staves Online" was the old nickname.

Seems we're there again.

I'm pretty patient and understanding but this is frustrating.

My stamblade is already a second-class citizen in the end-game and is losing non-trivial DPS courtesy of the Major Force nerf, the Minor Force nerf, and the Rearming Trap nerf. Incap nerfed. Relentless Focus now costs stamina which will reduce sustain.

Nothing to help stamplars.

I just don't get it. The imbalance is extraordinarily obvious and at this rate won't be addressed until 2018.

I just use my stamplar as my crafter now. Stamina is dieing. No one wants stamin classes in trials or vet dungeons anymore.

Arrchangell wrote: »

Stamina is dying, and the worst thing is for example stamina nb, depends a lot on high end gear ( cough MA daggers cough), unlike any magicka class. My friend does 40k dps in trials with no MA weapons ,he started playing 2 months ago, cp 350. I'm a stam nb i have only 1 MA dagger so far cause it's stupidly hard to get them, and yet i can't even get close to his dps, even though i have gear which is much harder to get. They really need to change the gap for it, like lower the dps from MA weapons for stam classes. But increase their dps without them, and MA weapons can become like the real high end, if u want the highest dps possible.

Its total bs that an endgame stam build NEEDS to have trial gear (VO) and Maelstrom weapons with the right traits to even measure up to their mag counterpart running gear they picked up in vet dungeons. The nerf to my dk standard and the rearming trap are a nice middle finger to my stam class as well.

While stamina builds have higher max dps in pve, they are criminally lack utility skills and could use some work.
Although, if you aren't sorc, I wouldn't count on that.

Nefaras wrote: »

I agree from a relatively new (1 year) player perspective....everywhere you hear stam is crap here , and in pvp all flame heavy amor stam

But my point is there is no mmo atm that have fixxed the range/melee problem. Melees are always harder to play and so on because they need to stand near at the boss. But here in eso i have the feeling that the gap between the two playstyles are just to high (because we have no range stam guys ...bow sucks balls for main bar...magika = range damage for me)

That is not really true tons of mmorpgs make melee characters just as worth while, your thinking in terms of a few newer mmorpgs. There is no excuse as to why stamina is not as viable, who wants to play an mmorpg where all you can weld is a staff? Seriously? Come on, lets wait for the patch notes because I highly doubt this is something zos wants.

I dont understand people complaining about stamina classes. Even trial guild have higher dps tests for stamina builds like for an example 30k for magicka and 35k for stamina.

Cyrediath wrote: »

I dont understand people complaining about stamina classes. Even trial guild have higher dps tests for stamina builds like for an example 30k for magicka and 35k for stamina.

Because they do not have utility/defense according to many stamina players, and it is also about pvp like stamplars are basically in the backburner when it comes to stamina.

Cyrediath wrote: »

I dont understand people complaining about stamina classes. Even trial guild have higher dps tests for stamina builds like for an example 30k for magicka and 35k for stamina.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

PvE Stam is JUST FINE except Stamplar.

Stamina classes:
1) Barely any group utility
2) No shields. As a melee character - good luck with survivability.
3) No possibility for range - if a fight forces you to go ranged, good luck pulling over 5k dps.
4) Barely any AoEs - 75% of vet trials fights have some sort of adds. Yes, single target damage Stamina pulls 5k higher, but have you ever compared their AoE damage to their Magicka counterparts?

Magicka classes on the other hand:
1) Utility part of their rotation, be it synergies to proc stuff, skills that give resources back(shards), or damage skills that heal group.
2) Harness Magicka lol. Plus see point #3 below.
3) Full of ranged skills. Swap out some skills and DPS barely takes a hit.
4) 90% of the skills are AoE skills.

Most importantly, Magicka characters pull 5k or so less dps on SINGLE TARGET FIGHTS. On multiple targets they easily out-dps stamina.

Good luck getting into any end-game leaderboard trial runs as a Stam character.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

covenant_merchant wrote: »

The problem is, that while stamina will be lackluster in PVE end-game, in PVP, it's superior to its magicka counterpart - better sustain, survivability due to heavy armor, not to mention low cost spammables (ransack) and procs (though procs won't crit - crit hardly mattered in PVP due to the prevalence of impen).
It's hardly dying. Go PVP and see for yourself.

Easiest fix to that would be to buff medium armor passives. Or add stuff into the Battle Spirit debuff for PvP. There's multiple workarounds. As a pure PvE player, I'm tired of being given the same old stupid PvP excuse to nerf stam in PvE.

As far as running heavy armor goes, magicka users can do that too in PvP if they want it so badly. It's no different that a stam user using it..

EDIT: And again @covenant_merchant, this topic is for PvE, if it wasn't abundantly clear in the heading.

Xvorg wrote: »

Stam is bad? Ok, time to try this with a stam DK

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Swamp+Raider+Set

From a PvE perspective, there's multiple better sets out there for a StamDK @Xvorg. None of this actually solves the problems I listed above with stam:

DangerMan wrote: »

Stamina classes:
1) Barely any group utility
2) No shields. As a melee character - good luck with survivability.
3) No possibility for range - if a fight forces you to go ranged, good luck pulling over 5k dps.
4) Barely any AoEs - 75% of vet trials fights have some sort of adds. Yes, single target damage Stamina pulls 5k higher, but have you ever compared their AoE damage to their Magicka counterparts?

Magicka classes on the other hand:
1) Utility part of their rotation, be it synergies to proc stuff, skills that give resources back(shards), or damage skills that heal group.
2) Harness Magicka lol. Plus see point #3 below.
3) Full of ranged skills. Swap out some skills and DPS barely takes a hit.
4) 90% of the skills are AoE skills.

Most importantly, Magicka characters pull 5k or so less dps on SINGLE TARGET FIGHTS. On multiple targets they easily out-dps stamina.

Good luck getting into any end-game leaderboard trial runs as a Stam character.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

STA is just fine in PvP and PvE, except the stamplar which needs an overhaul that STA sorc got. How can you be complaining about STA being weak? Are you kidding ?

Did you not read the list I posted right above your comment? @Khaos_Bane

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Cyrediath wrote: »

I dont understand people complaining about stamina classes. Even trial guild have higher dps tests for stamina builds like for an example 30k for magicka and 35k for stamina.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

PvE Stam is JUST FINE except Stamplar.

@Cyrediath @Khaos_Bane you don't know what you're talking about, so why bother commenting?

Take a look at Trials leaderboard groups and tell us how many stam characters there are.

We all know stam is solid in PvP and Maelstrom. We also know that stam is far behind Magicka in end-game group PvE. There's simply no reason to bring stam DPS to Trials. Cleave and AoE damage is more important than single-target. Stam characters have no survivability crutches. They have no range.

Please stop spreading misinformation.

I have done nearly all content with my STAM Sorc and had no problems while doing massive DPS. I have very high survivability as well. Stop complaining. If you are running with a guild that only lets in the absolute META that's your problem.

@Khaos_Bane haha give me an 12 man StamPlar team and I can guarantee you I'll clear pretty much any Vet trial besides vMoL lol. You clearing all content on a Stam Sorc doesn't mean ***. I've cleared all content on my Stam DK and my Stam Sorc. None of that is remotely related to what we're saying here.

@LiquidPony specifically bolded out 'end-game group PvE', and I've mentioned leaderboard teams multiple times in this thread.

Yes, you 'can' still do all content with stam. But forget getting a top leaderboard score if you have more than a couple stamina characters in your group. If you were truly part of an end-game guild, you'd know what we were talking about. There's a reason why HODOR, WaI, or BI run with 0 or 1 Stam characters. Please don't comment if you don't understand what we're talking about here.