Root cool down

itscompton · December 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Magicka can use it's own roots, magicka can kite. If you're magicka then you should be the one rooting and hope it doesn't get a cool down

Kinda hard to be rooting people when Templar's don't have a class root and that leaves us to choose between single target stamina based trap beast that no longer does magic damage or giving up DPS to switch from Inferno staff to Ice to get the single target root from Destructive clench which is a very high cost spell to spam.

lucky_Sage · December 2016

itscompton wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Magicka can use it's own roots, magicka can kite. If you're magicka then you should be the one rooting and hope it doesn't get a cool down

Kinda hard to be rooting people when Templar's don't have a class root and that leaves us to choose between single target stamina based trap beast that no longer does magic damage or giving up DPS to switch from Inferno staff to Ice to get the single target root from Destructive clench which is a very high cost spell to spam.

@itscompton

talons isn't cheap either
y'all do have have strong snare and aoe stun and a knock back

itscompton · December 2016

lucky_Sage wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Magicka can use it's own roots, magicka can kite. If you're magicka then you should be the one rooting and hope it doesn't get a cool down

Kinda hard to be rooting people when Templar's don't have a class root and that leaves us to choose between single target stamina based trap beast that no longer does magic damage or giving up DPS to switch from Inferno staff to Ice to get the single target root from Destructive clench which is a very high cost spell to spam.

@itscompton

talons isn't cheap either
y'all do have have strong snare and aoe stun and a knock back

Talons might be expensive too but it's a class ability so you don't have to equip a specific weapon to use it and it roots multiple people with one cast. And Templars don't have an AOE stun, blazing spear does AOE damage but only stuns one person. Knockback you say, free immunity I say. And by strong snare are you talking about the 30% snare on Ritual? cause it's not strong.

lucky_Sage · December 2016

itscompton wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Magicka can use it's own roots, magicka can kite. If you're magicka then you should be the one rooting and hope it doesn't get a cool down

Kinda hard to be rooting people when Templar's don't have a class root and that leaves us to choose between single target stamina based trap beast that no longer does magic damage or giving up DPS to switch from Inferno staff to Ice to get the single target root from Destructive clench which is a very high cost spell to spam.

@itscompton

talons isn't cheap either
y'all do have have strong snare and aoe stun and a knock back

Talons might be expensive too but it's a class ability so you don't have to equip a specific weapon to use it and it roots multiple people with one cast. And Templars don't have an AOE stun, blazing spear does AOE damage but only stuns one person. Knockback you say, free immunity I say. And by strong snare are you talking about the 30% snare on Ritual? cause it's not strong.

vampire bane has a good snare.
and I rember shards stunning multiple people

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Vythri wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Break free is broken and roots are bugged . I made a bug report thread about it but no word from ZOS . Spamming roots will hold someone down even after break free sometimes .

...you dodge roll out of roots, not break free. It's been like that since the start of the game.

There is still suppose to be immunity timers after roots even if dodge roll and sometimes there is not . That was my point .

cpuScientist · December 2016

itscompton wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Magicka can use it's own roots, magicka can kite. If you're magicka then you should be the one rooting and hope it doesn't get a cool down

Kinda hard to be rooting people when Templar's don't have a class root and that leaves us to choose between single target stamina based trap beast that no longer does magic damage or giving up DPS to switch from Inferno staff to Ice to get the single target root from Destructive clench which is a very high cost spell to spam.

Templar has a good kit, they have snares and burst and the best damn execute in the game, their play style is different to a DK, they do not need to roots at all. And if you must have it then go ice staff, but if you're rooting on a Templar wow you're doing it wrong.

I swear if people start QQ'ing about magPlars they need to be checked.

Ashamray · December 2016

Magplars have the worst burst among pvp. They do no have aoe hard CC, and all hard CC they have is: a slow charge (don't work in melee = useless as CC when you are in close combat), Spear Shard (super slow, easy to avoid or block) and Javeline (blockable, reflectable and do not even stun).
So CC isn't good on Templar. Bad CC is one the reasons why mplar's burst is also bad.

Saint_Bud · December 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

guys really??
Stamina player want a nerf for something? The only option to stay with light armor in pvp is with root spamming skills and kiting or playing with sorcerer.. i dont see a discussion where magicka player want a nerf for all nightblades with medium armor, which are able to gank everyone before the dotsets were trendy...

And streak surely dont need less costs or a buff... the half of my single target skills ends with "missed" ...

Streak doesn't provide minor or major evasion so won't cause skills to miss. Streak is the sorc teleport. It does need to cost less when you're using it offensively in my opinion, the cost increase was introduced because people cried about sorcs escaping too easily. Well if you're using it to stun your opponent or reposition from a melee assault why should it still cost so much? Gap closers don't have the same cost increase applied and can just be spammed.

But with an gab closer players cant escape.

Berenhir · December 2016

Has anyone mentioned Mist Form already?
Thats one of the top 5 reasons why vamp is mandatory in pvp for magicka builds.

The main counter to roots is btw not kiting or dodge-rolling but AOE effects of all kind. Roots do not disable, they just keep you (and therefore also your opponent) in place. Whenever someone roots you and charges in, you experience the perfect moment to stun the enemy, drop your AOEs and/or blockcasting shields/buffs.
Noone wants to fight inside grothdarr, veil of blades, eye of the cheese, negates, novas, standard. even wall of elements negates most staminas vigor ticks.

if you get rooted in a spot you dont want to fight, its mist form/dodge roll/rapid maneuver spam until your favorite tree or rock comes into sight.

and if youre outnumbered 250 to 1, its not the roots that killed you. Though admittedly its probably the first thing that hit you.

Ashamray · December 2016

Berenhir wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned Mist Form already?
Thats one of the top 5 reasons why vamp is mandatory in pvp for magicka builds.

The main counter to roots is btw not kiting or dodge-rolling but AOE effects of all kind. Roots do not disable, they just keep you (and therefore also your opponent) in place. Whenever someone roots you and charges in, you experience the perfect moment to stun the enemy, drop your AOEs and/or blockcasting shields/buffs.
Noone wants to fight inside grothdarr, veil of blades, eye of the cheese, negates, novas, standard. even wall of elements negates most staminas vigor ticks.

if you get rooted in a spot you dont want to fight, its mist form/dodge roll/rapid maneuver spam until your favorite tree or rock comes into sight.

and if youre outnumbered 250 to 1, its not the roots that killed you. Though admittedly its probably the first thing that hit you.

But roots do disable. You simply cannot move and there are few counters to them. Very few meanwhile roots (aoe roots!) are available to everyone.
It's really annoying that you cant jab \ sweep being rooted -> zero DPS. Purge? Ok, still zero dps.

cpuScientist · December 2016

Ashamray wrote: »

Magplars have the worst burst among pvp. They do no have aoe hard CC, and all hard CC they have is: a slow charge (don't work in melee = useless as CC when you are in close combat), Spear Shard (super slow, easy to avoid or block) and Javeline (blockable, reflectable and do not even stun).
So CC isn't good on Templar. Bad CC is one the reasons why mplar's burst is also bad.

MagPlars have the worst burst??? First off that's magDK's title. With a MagDK needing an ultimate to burst finish off many classes.

Templars do not have great CC as that's not the play style, they can easily negate roots though using stamina or magicka, they have the highest pressure dps in PvP, and many fantastic burst combos that don't need an ultimate to pull off. The best healing when outnumbered through jabs or just outright with breath of life, cheap purge that also can act as a hot a snare and a dot all rolled into one. They can go health and be a bubbleplar one of the few tank builds or only that can actually wipe zergs mind you. They have a fantastic PvP kit. They do not need the CC because they don't have to damage you overtime like DK or set up fairly long and purgeable burst combos like the magSorc. They just gotta hit you lol.

Elusiin · December 2016

There's several ways to get around this: Shuffle, Streak, Immovable, Dodge Roll, Potions with immovable effect, Cleanse... Soft cc is just what it is, I feel cc is balanced as is. Proc sets are the real problem imo.

Ashamray · December 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Magplars have the worst burst among pvp. They do no have aoe hard CC, and all hard CC they have is: a slow charge (don't work in melee = useless as CC when you are in close combat), Spear Shard (super slow, easy to avoid or block) and Javeline (blockable, reflectable and do not even stun).
So CC isn't good on Templar. Bad CC is one the reasons why mplar's burst is also bad.

MagPlars have the worst burst??? First off that's magDK's title. With a MagDK needing an ultimate to burst finish off many classes.

Templars do not have great CC as that's not the play style, they can easily negate roots though using stamina or magicka, they have the highest pressure dps in PvP, and many fantastic burst combos that don't need an ultimate to pull off. The best healing when outnumbered through jabs or just outright with breath of life, cheap purge that also can act as a hot a snare and a dot all rolled into one. They can go health and be a bubbleplar one of the few tank builds or only that can actually wipe zergs mind you. They have a fantastic PvP kit. They do not need the CC because they don't have to damage you overtime like DK or set up fairly long and purgeable burst combos like the magSorc. They just gotta hit you lol.

There are some significant flaws that hit all those advantages you mentioned.

First, "highest pressure in pvp" is nonsense because channeled attacks aren't able to provide it. Jabs can be avoided by stepping \ dodging through templar. Even if you avoid only 1 tick of jabs, you already reduce its damage by 25%.
Jabs are vulnerable to tiny fps changes. It's the only spammable dps skill in the game that requires targeting, and if your target is fast, you will lose some of your ticks. Roots also lock targeting untill you purge them or execute light attack.
So actually jabs do fantastic damage only against dummy.
Second, "fantastic burst combos" is a myth. I'm sure you're talking about Flare + Javeline + Beam, but it is the most unreliable combination ever. Slow, castable, reflectable, dodgeable... no, really?
Third, magplars does have to damage you over time because all damage isn't instant.

Only real power of magicka templar with no doubt is amazing purge. BoL isn't - it can be outdamaged and hardly nerfed by reverb spam and \ or fassala.

KramUzibra · December 2016

Doesn't really make sense to remove even more counter play.