Time to buff shields again (mag sorc perspective)

jrgray93 · November 2016

Minalan wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I understand your frustration against the stamina proc meta but as a magicka templar, I can barely get through the shields as it is. I've often been complimented for my damage from people saying it's great for a templar. The only way I can beat a good mag sorc is to lull them into a sense of security until they drop their shield and hope to catch them off guard with the destro ult and a gap closer. They have to beat themselves because we just can't burst down those shields.

I don't think your shields need a buff. I think the proc sets need a nerf. That's an ongoing discussion already.

We have the same problems fighting magplars who heal to full over and over again and spam radiant every chance they get with 25K of each resist. No hate here, I'd rather group with a magplar than any other spec to do anything. Yours is the single strongest magicka class in the game right now.

The imbalance is that your heavy armor is so much better than light that it isn't funny. Light armor doesn't do all that much more damage (6% with concentration. But isn't that outweighed by the wrath passive?).

The defense LA offers is pathetic, and it doesn't do much more damage. So we have the glass and no cannon.

What would you do to balance LA? More damage? Higher protection? Better shields? Nothing? Shields is the only way we can stand up in a fight against the HA meta. And they're lacking right now.

None of us want to go back to the Thieves Guild Sorc game, but something like an 8 second shield is not unreasonable.

You're right about light armor sucking. That's why templars aren't using it. We don't lose a ton of damage to use it but we lose a lot of sustain if we don't use sustain sets. A templar in sustain sets should not be a significant threat on the damage front.

As for radiant spamming, that shouldn't be an issue for a sorc. First of all, any templar who spams radiant is bad and should be an easy win. Second, a shield from a sorc can block radiant damage even if you have ~20% health. A heal while the shield is up will but radiant back to "wet noodle" damage levels. I've seen it happen time and time again. I even do it myself with harness magicka.

The other thing to consider is that a templar does not have simultaneous offense and defense, save for puncturing sweep, which can be easily avoided with streak and mines. If they're healing, they're not doing damage. You can keep the pressure on and prevent them from taking the offensive while dwindling their resources. I have never lost to a magicka templar. Not once. Worst case scenario is a draw, and if you're playing a magicka sorc correctly, that should be the same story from that perspective. Win or draw. You simply have too much shield mitigation to fall to a magicka templar's mediocre damage output. Their strength lies in their healing and executing potential, which is exactly why it's the class to group with.

Templars are forced into heavy armor by, you guessed it, the stamina meta. You simply can't survive proc sets and absurdly-high stamina damage output in light as a templar because templars lack mobility, mitigation, and inherent self-healing via offensive spells. You'll also die inside of 2-3 CCs in light because you can't sustain the stamina.

I think the root of your complaint is still the general imbalance of stamina vs magicka and proc sets. I think that needs addressed before light armor buffs are considered. As for how to buff light, I'd say it needs some way of making stamina sustain through CC easier as well as some way of surviving stamina burst. I wouldn't be opposed to an 8-second shield length, either.

Strider_Roshin · November 2016

Magicka sorcs are one of the strongest opponents out there, and if you can't burst their entire shield, and all of their health in one go; you're gonna have a bad time.

White wabbit · November 2016

Lol they need nerfing even more

Thelon · November 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka sorcs are one of the strongest opponents out there

that's cause only the good ones are left. The rest have rerolled to easier, more forgiveable classes

Minalan · November 2016

Thelon wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka sorcs are one of the strongest opponents out there

that's cause only the good ones are left. The rest have rerolled to easier, more forgiveable classes

Stam Sorc. Probably the strongest class in the game now.

White wabbit wrote: »

Lol they need nerfing even more

I understand how people can get confused, but STAM Sorc is the one with the huge AOE radius hurricane that kills you instantly with ransack/dune ripper.

White wabbit · November 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka sorcs are one of the strongest opponents out there

that's cause only the good ones are left. The rest have rerolled to easier, more forgiveable classes

Stam Sorc. Probably the strongest class in the game now.

White wabbit wrote: »

Lol they need nerfing even more

I understand how people can get confused, but STAM Sorc is the one with the huge AOE radius hurricane that kills you instantly with ransack/dune ripper.

Yeah not really confused mag sorcs are still good ,so people want to buff them and put us back to where we were before

bowmanz607 · November 2016

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Methariorn · November 2016

If they don't fix the meta first no class tuning is doing any good. First people should not be able to have almost infinite resource. Heavy armor need to be addressed: it can't give resistance, damage bonus and magicka/stamina back. Proc sets need a global cd in PvP (they can proc 100% harder in PvE for what I care). It's not fair that a build with 5 black rose, 5 viper and 2 veli/tremor can take can have a lot of resistance, be almost permablocked and do decent damage due to proc.

Derra · November 2016

Jinxycat wrote: »

While I would like shields to be buffed again, I think I would much rather have Bolt Escape buffed instead, specifically getting rid of the cost-increase.

I think getting rid of the gapclose snare would be enough while benefitting all other classes (especially those using mistform) aswell.

Derra · November 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Rework all 5p armor proccsets to do their current burst dmg into dmg over time over the duration of their cooldown. Remove tremorscales snare and replace it with sth useful in pve.
I have no idea how to fix selene. It´s the epitome of the bad procc design atleast for 1v1.

zuto40 · November 2016

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Rework all 5p armor proccsets to do their current burst dmg into dmg over time over the duration of their cooldown. Remove tremorscales snare and replace it with sth useful in pve.
I have no idea how to fix selene. It´s the epitome of the bad procc design atleast for 1v1.

How is Selene's broken, it's ***, doesn't work vs shields, can see the bear for an easy dodge since it hits after the bear and has low proc chance

HoloYoitsu · November 2016

zuto40 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Rework all 5p armor proccsets to do their current burst dmg into dmg over time over the duration of their cooldown. Remove tremorscales snare and replace it with sth useful in pve.
I have no idea how to fix selene. It´s the epitome of the bad procc design atleast for 1v1.

How is Selene's broken, it's ***, doesn't work vs shields, can see the bear for an easy dodge since it hits after the bear and has low proc chance

11k procs are simply not balanced, the wind up on Selene actually means you can combo it with CC like fossilize or fear to guarantee an unblocked hit.

And let's not forget about double procing.

mad1max954 · November 2016

im a magsorc and confess I'm more of a casual gamer (circa 300cp) and have not played this game for a while now. The shield nerf is a joke and frankly we don't have enough burst to balance the character.

This I a game and it's no fun whatsoever being a magsorc. You can shout ltp all you want, but this is supposed to be fun!!

Anyway, shame to see nothing has changed and I will check back again in a couple of months.

Jsmalls · November 2016

Drop your resto for a sword and board. Makes your shields stronger, and then you can slot something other than the meta healing ward.

Minalan · November 2016

Jsmalls wrote: »

Drop your resto for a sword and board. Makes your shields stronger, and then you can slot something other than the meta healing ward.

It's a lich resto, at the moment I can't.

I love this idea, but That only leaves dark deal for a heal and that's just terrible in comparison.

zuto40 · November 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Rework all 5p armor proccsets to do their current burst dmg into dmg over time over the duration of their cooldown. Remove tremorscales snare and replace it with sth useful in pve.
I have no idea how to fix selene. It´s the epitome of the bad procc design atleast for 1v1.

How is Selene's broken, it's ***, doesn't work vs shields, can see the bear for an easy dodge since it hits after the bear and has low proc chance

11k procs are simply not balanced, the wind up on Selene actually means you can combo it with CC like fossilize or fear to guarantee an unblocked hit.

And let's not forget about double procing.

i wish i had fossilize or got lucky enough to get double procs on my stamblade

HoloYoitsu · November 2016

zuto40 wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Rework all 5p armor proccsets to do their current burst dmg into dmg over time over the duration of their cooldown. Remove tremorscales snare and replace it with sth useful in pve.
I have no idea how to fix selene. It´s the epitome of the bad procc design atleast for 1v1.

How is Selene's broken, it's ***, doesn't work vs shields, can see the bear for an easy dodge since it hits after the bear and has low proc chance

11k procs are simply not balanced, the wind up on Selene actually means you can combo it with CC like fossilize or fear to guarantee an unblocked hit.

And let's not forget about double procing.

i wish i had fossilize or got lucky enough to get double procs on my stamblade

I mean, as a NB you do have fear.

Derra · November 2016

zuto40 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Rework all 5p armor proccsets to do their current burst dmg into dmg over time over the duration of their cooldown. Remove tremorscales snare and replace it with sth useful in pve.
I have no idea how to fix selene. It´s the epitome of the bad procc design atleast for 1v1.

How is Selene's broken, it's ***, doesn't work vs shields, can see the bear for an easy dodge since it hits after the bear and has low proc chance

A procc that can randomly occur as fast as every 4s on your normal dmging abilities that has a higher tooltip than the games hardest hitting abilities (fragments and darkflare) on a medium spelldmg build is simply not balanced.

Also I´m having selenes procc on shields aswell - maybe sth else is bugged there?

zuto40 wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Don't balance around a broken meta. That is backwards thinking. The meta needs to be addressed.

Rework all 5p armor proccsets to do their current burst dmg into dmg over time over the duration of their cooldown. Remove tremorscales snare and replace it with sth useful in pve.
I have no idea how to fix selene. It´s the epitome of the bad procc design atleast for 1v1.

How is Selene's broken, it's ***, doesn't work vs shields, can see the bear for an easy dodge since it hits after the bear and has low proc chance

11k procs are simply not balanced, the wind up on Selene actually means you can combo it with CC like fossilize or fear to guarantee an unblocked hit.

And let's not forget about double procing.

i wish i had fossilize or got lucky enough to get double procs on my stamblade

Doubleproccs are weaponswap related afaik. Stamblade gets a 100% unmitigated hit with 20% dmg buff if selenes proccs on incap.

Ganj · December 2016

No, magicka sorcerer's shields are fine. Light armor way too weak compare to medium and especially heavy but shields are fine at the moment. If they buff shields it would give advantage to zergs more. When people chase you outnumbered, mostly you just need to get rid of them one by one, imagine those shield stacker sorcerer chasing you with bigger shields at those moment. We wouldnt be able to kill them. Not fun for solo sorcerers. Im magicka sorcerer aswell, but shields are fine when you know how to use them.

Jsmalls · December 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Drop your resto for a sword and board. Makes your shields stronger, and then you can slot something other than the meta healing ward.

It's a lich resto, at the moment I can't.

I love this idea, but That only leaves dark deal for a heal and that's just terrible in comparison.

@Minalan

That awkward moment when you see a comment from a month ago

Go sword and board lich! Then you can get an extra piece somewhere hopefully a max magicka monster piece

And surge's heal is OP just stack your 28k in Wards and let it heal you underneath. Can use those vitality pots until you get use to it. Every Sorc I've convinced to make the switch has never looked back and it is very competitive in both open world PvP and dueling (Spell wall ftw).

Lord-Otto · December 2016

Ganj wrote: »

No, magicka sorcerer's shields are fine. Light armor way too weak compare to medium and especially heavy but shields are fine at the moment. If they buff shields it would give advantage to zergs more. When people chase you outnumbered, mostly you just need to get rid of them one by one, imagine those shield stacker sorcerer chasing you with bigger shields at those moment. We wouldnt be able to kill them. Not fun for solo sorcerers. Im magicka sorcerer aswell, but shields are fine when you know how to use them.

When a zerg chases me, I get ambushed/critrushed non-stop. Nothing helps there.
But it's tiresome to chase a stam build around a rock for ages while already snared and streak malfunctioning due to terrain. And by the time you caught up, your shields get down and you see Vigor tick said stam build to full health and can prepare for the incoming potentially lethal 1-second-burst.
It's not comparable and not just. Vigor, dodge and LoS are all techniques that synergize without ever lowering your offensive. It's why magicka builds struggeled before OT, no sufficient pressure. And stam builds are p*ssed now because EotS gave us a pressure tool.

Fubar8 · December 2016

you can not play only with h ward. you have to have healing ward and h magicka otherwise you will not survive in this meta/patch, other than that they should to smth about proctatos.