Time to buff shields again (mag sorc perspective)

Kutsuu

I see magsorcs complaining on the forums, but then I run into these amazing Magicka sorcs Xv1ing out in Cyrodiil and I'm just not sure where the disconnect is. I play a stamina NB mainly, and I'm not an amazing player but I do hold my own - I don't touch a good Magicka sorc unless I catch them on their horse with shields down because they will outlast me and kill me in most cases unless I get lucky when their shields run out just as I CC and they don't have enough stam to break it. I'm not upset that they can outlast and kill me, and I don't think they need nerfs. However they definitely don't need major buffs.

OdinForge

The entire game needs a redesign at this point, there is no more salvaging the framework here.

How strong do you want shields to become, they're still very strong in 1v1 scenarios. I'd rather use shields against a heavy + proc build than rely on healing and dodge in medium armor. It doesn't matter how much you buff or nerf shields, the game desperately needs a rework from every perspective.

HoloYoitsu

LegacyDM wrote: »

Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

Please do not speak of the Butterfly Sorc in the same sentence as legit players.

Moving on, Reddington and Force are 2 of the most skilled players in the game and happen to both main mag sorc (since launch iirc). Their shields are no more "thick" than any other person, they are simply perfectly animation cancelling the shield casts to maximize shield uptime. The way you break through shields hasn't changed in years: you apply hard CC and burst. Since 2.0 with the shield duration nerf this has been easier than ever, all you have to do is count to 4 after they bubble, then CC - their shield will expire while they are CC'd.

Bringing up German as an example of "OP sorc" and telling other sorcs to L2P....do you really want us to "L2P" like German? I don't think you know what you're suggesting.

thankyourat

incite wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

shield stacking with mines makes an impenetrable fortress in which no magic sorc if they are skilled should ever lose to a stam character, even with the proc sets

1. shieldstacking should not be allowed imo, hence my thread as a player who uses 1 shield (if you gonna keep shield stacking, you're eventually gonna lose unless you're playing a casual) if you keep investing time and resources in keeping 2 shields up, you are gonna lose eventually. no pressure on enemy = lose (unless your enemy makes mistakes)

2. mines impen? perhaps vs players who don't know what they're doing, again, against any decent player, don't even bother to cast them, they eat mines for breakfast so don't know where you getting this from

Mines and shields together is kind of op. I know playing my magblade I won't go in those mines, that's basically a death trap. I most definitely can't eat mines for breakfast. Mines also stop you from being able to pressure a sorc just kite around your mines when they are gone streak away and recast them. I'm jealous of all the defense a magsorc has

Brutusmax1mus

incite wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

In a fight you have to rebuff your shield every couple of seconds.

thx for stating the obvious

What he's saying is when you're in combat and under fire, a 6 second shield is plenty. The people who want shield to last longer are those afraid of getting ganked or want to stack hardened, healing and harness Ward's, then do nothing but dps for the rest of the fight.

Proc sets are a problem for EVERYONE not just people who use shields.

incite

thankyourat wrote: »

incite wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

shield stacking with mines makes an impenetrable fortress in which no magic sorc if they are skilled should ever lose to a stam character, even with the proc sets

1. shieldstacking should not be allowed imo, hence my thread as a player who uses 1 shield (if you gonna keep shield stacking, you're eventually gonna lose unless you're playing a casual) if you keep investing time and resources in keeping 2 shields up, you are gonna lose eventually. no pressure on enemy = lose (unless your enemy makes mistakes)

2. mines impen? perhaps vs players who don't know what they're doing, again, against any decent player, don't even bother to cast them, they eat mines for breakfast so don't know where you getting this from

Mines and shields together is kind of op. I know playing my magblade I won't go in those mines, that's basically a death trap. I most definitely can't eat mines for breakfast. Mines also stop you from being able to pressure a sorc just kite around your mines when they are gone streak away and recast them. I'm jealous of all the defense a magsorc has

Then you play your mag nb in a very diff way, destro mag nb have absolutely no problem with mines. Obviously as a LA user you're not gonna eat mines, with those words, I was suggesting a bunch of the stam classes who laugh at them

incite

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

incite wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

In a fight you have to rebuff your shield every couple of seconds.

thx for stating the obvious

What he's saying is when you're in combat and under fire, a 6 second shield is plenty. The people who want shield to last longer are those afraid of getting ganked or want to stack hardened, healing and harness Ward's, then do nothing but dps for the rest of the fight.

Proc sets are a problem for EVERYONE not just people who use shields.

Well if you read my words, I clearly stated it's not my intention to stack shields nor make them last longer. I'm pretty sure proc sets are here to stay, so I'm not gonna wait around b4 they actually help LA users out, hence my thread about buffing shields. ALERT: I suggest buffing the strength of the shield while not being able to stack them

Zos made the 6 sec shields in order to lessen or get rid of shieldstacking. In the current state, stacking shields will only make you survive a bit longer in some situations, but in the end you'll just die anyway because you can't keep pressure on your enemies and are wasting resources on keeping 2 shields up at all times.

kadar

@incite , I'm sorry. Can't make a thread with the words "magicka, shield, or Sorc" without getting bashed.

Seems like the issue is the Proc meta. I like your suggestion with the Battle Spirit. What if we just add another clause onto the end of it, "Reduces the effect of damage procs by 33% (50%?)." That would solve a plethora off issues in Cyrodiil right now. It would make the strong proc sets (Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow) more in line with other sets, and it would give ZOS the chance to redesign the weak sets (the ones that are already useless) into something useful.

Eirella

While I would like shields to be buffed again, I think I would much rather have Bolt Escape buffed instead, specifically getting rid of the cost-increase.

Minalan

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

No.

Y

Kutsuu wrote: »

I see magsorcs complaining on the forums, but then I run into these amazing Magicka sorcs Xv1ing out in Cyrodiil and I'm just not sure where the disconnect is. I play a stamina NB mainly, and I'm not an amazing player but I do hold my own - I don't touch a good Magicka sorc unless I catch them on their horse with shields down because they will outlast me and kill me in most cases unless I get lucky when their shields run out just as I CC and they don't have enough stam to break it. I'm not upset that they can outlast and kill me, and I don't think they need nerfs. However they definitely don't need major buffs.

Good magicka Sorcs cannot Xv1 against good players.

They're fighting people who aren't dodging, who aren't using crit rush animation cancelled combos, who aren't block tanks with 60K health spamming CC, who aren't running the Fengrush tremorscale ransack build. You rarely see the opponents use shuffle, spell wall (so much this!), scales, or defensive rune. You never see the dozens of instant ganks to good high damage night blades.

The streamer spends more time running from the good players who don't bother to chase them. Then they Xv1 the terrible players that will chase someone for half a continent.

Take these videos with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean Sorc doesn't need some quality of life improvements. There's a reason they're rare in Cyrodiil these days.

Minalan

thankyourat wrote: »

incite wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

shield stacking with mines makes an impenetrable fortress in which no magic sorc if they are skilled should ever lose to a stam character, even with the proc sets

1. shieldstacking should not be allowed imo, hence my thread as a player who uses 1 shield (if you gonna keep shield stacking, you're eventually gonna lose unless you're playing a casual) if you keep investing time and resources in keeping 2 shields up, you are gonna lose eventually. no pressure on enemy = lose (unless your enemy makes mistakes)

2. mines impen? perhaps vs players who don't know what they're doing, again, against any decent player, don't even bother to cast them, they eat mines for breakfast so don't know where you getting this from

Mines and shields together is kind of op. I know playing my magblade I won't go in those mines, that's basically a death trap. I most definitely can't eat mines for breakfast. Mines also stop you from being able to pressure a sorc just kite around your mines when they are gone streak away and recast them. I'm jealous of all the defense a magsorc has

Use CC, they can only break like two of them. Time the third CC five seconds into a shield. Eat into their health. It's doable but not easy.

Every class has a hard counter. For Sorcs its DK and scales. The limited stam pool means that the DK can keep talons on you for most of the fight. I won't say it's OP though, because they *should* be hard for a Sorc to take down.

A mag NB isn't all projectile damage though, and would have a much easier time with a DK.

Kutsuu

Minalan wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

No.

Y

Kutsuu wrote: »

I see magsorcs complaining on the forums, but then I run into these amazing Magicka sorcs Xv1ing out in Cyrodiil and I'm just not sure where the disconnect is. I play a stamina NB mainly, and I'm not an amazing player but I do hold my own - I don't touch a good Magicka sorc unless I catch them on their horse with shields down because they will outlast me and kill me in most cases unless I get lucky when their shields run out just as I CC and they don't have enough stam to break it. I'm not upset that they can outlast and kill me, and I don't think they need nerfs. However they definitely don't need major buffs.

Good magicka Sorcs cannot Xv1 against good players.

They're fighting people who aren't dodging, who aren't using crit rush animation cancelled combos, who aren't block tanks with 60K health spamming CC, who aren't running the Fengrush tremorscale ransack build. You rarely see the opponents use shuffle, spell wall (so much this!), scales, or defensive rune. You never see the dozens of instant ganks to good high damage night blades.

The streamer spends more time running from the good players who don't bother to chase them. Then they Xv1 the terrible players that will chase someone for half a continent.

Take these videos with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean Sorc doesn't need some quality of life improvements. There's a reason they're rare in Cyrodiil these days.

The whole concept of 1vX revolves around your enemies being worse players than you. You just put 2 good players up against a single equally good player and numbers are going to win in most cases outside of luck or a big gank advantage.

I didn't say anything about videos - I said I see them out in Cyrodiil. I attack them myself - thus the reason I said that I typically cannot kill them 1v1 because a good Magicka sorc is a bursty stamina player's worst nightmare. Their mines, shields, and mobility are extremely difficult to counter unless you catch them on their horse before they can react.

BS on them being rare in Cyrodiil... I don't know what campaign you play in, but that's not true for Trueflame. I still see more NBs than most other classes, but magicka sorcs are not rare.

zuto40

incite wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

shield stacking with mines makes an impenetrable fortress in which no magic sorc if they are skilled should ever lose to a stam character, even with the proc sets

1. shieldstacking should not be allowed imo, hence my thread as a player who uses 1 shield (if you gonna keep shield stacking, you're eventually gonna lose unless you're playing a casual) if you keep investing time and resources in keeping 2 shields up, you are gonna lose eventually. no pressure on enemy = lose (unless your enemy makes mistakes)

2. mines impen? perhaps vs players who don't know what they're doing, again, against any decent player, don't even bother to cast them, they eat mines for breakfast so don't know where you getting this from

mines are great vs any melee and vs anyone playing melee, if youre not good enough to capitalize on them against "decent" players then its a L2P issue

Joy_Division

6 seconds of a joke defense? Are you high? You yourself stated you have a 13.5K hardened Ward, that you can stack with other shields.

I get it that sorcs are annoyed they cant run around with fully double shielded 24-7, but let's not pretend that the OP mechanic of stacking high shields - higher even now than when they were OP - still isn't stupidly effective.

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

incite wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

shield stacking with mines makes an impenetrable fortress in which no magic sorc if they are skilled should ever lose to a stam character, even with the proc sets

1. shieldstacking should not be allowed imo, hence my thread as a player who uses 1 shield (if you gonna keep shield stacking, you're eventually gonna lose unless you're playing a casual) if you keep investing time and resources in keeping 2 shields up, you are gonna lose eventually. no pressure on enemy = lose (unless your enemy makes mistakes)

2. mines impen? perhaps vs players who don't know what they're doing, again, against any decent player, don't even bother to cast them, they eat mines for breakfast so don't know where you getting this from

Mines and shields together is kind of op. I know playing my magblade I won't go in those mines, that's basically a death trap. I most definitely can't eat mines for breakfast. Mines also stop you from being able to pressure a sorc just kite around your mines when they are gone streak away and recast them. I'm jealous of all the defense a magsorc has

Use CC, they can only break like two of them. Time the third CC five seconds into a shield. Eat into their health. It's doable but not easy.

Every class has a hard counter. For Sorcs its DK and scales. The limited stam pool means that the DK can keep talons on you for most of the fight. I won't say it's OP though, because they *should* be hard for a Sorc to take down.

A mag NB isn't all projectile damage though, and would have a much easier time with a DK.

The thing is the only cc you have as a magblade is fear agony is useless until it doesn't break on dot ticks. I only have a 10k stam pool just like most sorcs. I understand how to fight sorcs but if he is camping his mines the fight will never end because I'm never going in there to cc him. And dk is a hard counter to magblade as well the only move to hit them with is concealed weapon

americansteel

nope

stam builds need to be toned down or magik builds tone up.

shields are fine atm.

Master_Kas

Sorcerers are easily the strongest mag spec which can do well in light armor.

Add the stupid infernal guardian on top of that, breaking cloak / sneak 3 times, even when you are not in combat with anyone.

I'm strongly against any kind of buffs to sorcs/shields until this *** gets fixed, my cloak which costs 2.7k+ magicka gets broken 3 times in a row by a random zerg sorcerer just using 1 shield.

From a mag nb perspective, since stambuilds can just trololol around.

LegacyDM

incite wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

So sick and tired reading this 'l2p' issue, no fence but just because I don't stream or make video's, doesn't mean I don't know how to play my sorc and haven't proven to be good at it. I'll tell you this, 1. You need to L2R the thread b4 spitting your opinion.
I'm NOT talking about stacking shields, I'm actually very much against it. Tbh, if you're having problems vs shields, maybe you need to change something, no fence. Shieldstacking is dumb and has become less viable because of the duration, hence my thread. I'm actually talking about people who melt shield like it's nothing, seems you're not there yet. Ofc, I can't MAKE you understand because it seems you have 0 knowledge on mag sorc. Sorry for my rant but reading your post makes me sick.

Wait. The title of this post is calling for a buff in shields. Yet the majority of skilled sorc players have no problems with shields. Whether you like it or not shield stacking is the mechanic that makes shields op. learn to shield stack instead of running one shield as you stated. Shield stack like everyone else and cast eye of storm. Problem solved. I have yet to see anyone melt shields on the players I mentioned above. And yes I admit I do have a problem penetrating sorcs that stack 3 shields, cast mines, and bolt around with eye of flame.

Alucardo wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

Keep in mind that while they're stacking shields they aren't attacking you, and they're burning through their magicka

Lol. These guys never run out of magicka and then wait to pop eye of flame and bam one bolt later your screwed.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

Wait this is the same German that has been banned and one of the causes of vMA scores being erased off of the leaderboards. Because of the fact he was using Cheat Engine? Or is this a different German? If it's the same German then maybe "L2P issue" is that every MagSorc is not using Cheat Engine in that case it's not a "L2P" issue. It's more of a learn to cheat issues(L2C).

If this be the case. Then I can just buy a potato machine that can barely run ESO. Install ESO, then buy and install Cheat Engine, then also be one of the very select people running around in Cyrodiil with OP unbreakable shields as well.

Last time I checked he's still playing and shield stacking at the bridge...so either he's not using cheat engine or ZOS isn't banning people or detecting said activity. You decide.i will tell you there are legit sorcs that are shield stacking and are very hard to kill. In my experience The last thing sorcs need is a buff to shields.but then again I only fight against the streamers and top players so what do I know.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

Please do not speak of the Butterfly Sorc in the same sentence as legit players.

Moving on, Reddington and Force are 2 of the most skilled players in the game and happen to both main mag sorc (since launch iirc). Their shields are no more "thick" than any other person, they are simply perfectly animation cancelling the shield casts to maximize shield uptime. The way you break through shields hasn't changed in years: you apply hard CC and burst. Since 2.0 with the shield duration nerf this has been easier than ever, all you have to do is count to 4 after they bubble, then CC - their shield will expire while they are CC'd.

Bringing up German as an example of "OP sorc" and telling other sorcs to L2P....do you really want us to "L2P" like German? I don't think you know what you're suggesting.

He's still playing. Has he been banned again? I can only assume he's not currently cheating since his account is active. he is an example of someone shield stacking with no problems. Regardless, I've provide many other examples of top sorcs shield stacking with no issues. As for cc. Fear is great except it gives people stun immunity and enough time to regen resources if the sorc knows what they are doing. It's not a Magick instant win button.

Waffennacht

@minalan that build was created by anyone whom saw tremorscale, I even made a thread about it, which contains every proc armor set combo, well before anyone streamed the build.

Don't give credit where it isn't due

HoloYoitsu

LegacyDM wrote: »

He's still playing. Has he been banned again? I can only assume he's not currently cheating since his account is active. he is an example of someone shield stacking with no problems. Regardless, I've provide many other examples of top sorcs shield stacking with no issues. As for cc. Fear is great except it gives people stun immunity and enough time to regen resources if the sorc knows what they are doing. It's not a Magick instant win button.

In regards to your question, and without naming him, yes he was perma banned for using CE months ago, but ZOS reversed the ban a week later, and stated on the fourms in regards to it and other like cases, that they were specifically willing to unban people who had been perma banned in order to "give them a second chance". Lo and behold he was them back in game bragging in /zone about getting away with using CE. He was banned most recently for imitating a *** rally in game (which should tell you something about his maturity).

Anyway. Do you actually play a sorc, or are you just naming names to say "hey look at that guy, he makes it look easy"?

And please elaborate on what your point about fear is? Of course it gives stun immunity, it is itself a stun + snare + dmg debuff. It is in fact more powerful than most CCs because of the long duration. How do you spin that as being "enough time to regen resources" for sorcs hit by it instead of one of the strongest CCs in the game?

thankyourat

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

He's still playing. Has he been banned again? I can only assume he's not currently cheating since his account is active. he is an example of someone shield stacking with no problems. Regardless, I've provide many other examples of top sorcs shield stacking with no issues. As for cc. Fear is great except it gives people stun immunity and enough time to regen resources if the sorc knows what they are doing. It's not a Magick instant win button.

In regards to your question, and without naming him, yes he was perma banned for using CE months ago, but ZOS reversed the ban a week later, and stated on the fourms in regards to it and other like cases, that they were specifically willing to unban people who had been perma banned in order to "give them a second chance". Lo and behold he was them back in game bragging in /zone about getting away with using CE. He was banned most recently for imitating a *** rally in game (which should tell you something about his maturity).

Anyway. Do you actually play a sorc, or are you just naming names to say "hey look at that guy, he makes it look easy"?

And please elaborate on what your point about fear is? Of course it gives stun immunity, it is itself a stun + snare + dmg debuff. It is in fact more powerful than most CCs because of the long duration. How do you spin that as being "enough time to regen resources" for sorcs hit by it instead of one of the strongest CCs in the game?

I think what he's talking about with fear is that you can't cc a magicka player faster than his stamina can return. So after you break free as long as you don't use stamina for anything else your stamina pool will be basically full before you can be CC'd again.

olsborg

Alucardo wrote: »

Truth be told, I still use medium armor and don't run full proc builds, so shield stackers are still a pain in the butt for me. I agree 6 seconds is ridiculous though.

To make Light armor a little more useful, I'd add into one of the passives that requires 5 pieces of Light armor or more a bonus that extends shield duration by 100%. So if it's 6 seconds, you get 12 seconds.
If it's still lacking, they could add bonus mitigation to the shield in that passive also.

Basically, if you're running Light armor, then shields should get more of a bonus.

This is actually a sound idea. I like it.

Also, procc sets are ruining pvp for the most part, they need a revamp completely. Shieldstacking is still an issue, I mean healward is strong af specially when you stack it with 2 other shields. Id like it if every armor skill (shuffle, immovable etc) needs to have 5 of the relevant armor type equipped to use it, that way heavy armor metafotmwtf doesnt get to use shuffle and get all the benefits for defence. Also, with gapclosers being "fixed" now you can lessen the penalty of spamming streak.

HoloYoitsu

thankyourat wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

He's still playing. Has he been banned again? I can only assume he's not currently cheating since his account is active. he is an example of someone shield stacking with no problems. Regardless, I've provide many other examples of top sorcs shield stacking with no issues. As for cc. Fear is great except it gives people stun immunity and enough time to regen resources if the sorc knows what they are doing. It's not a Magick instant win button.

In regards to your question, and without naming him, yes he was perma banned for using CE months ago, but ZOS reversed the ban a week later, and stated on the fourms in regards to it and other like cases, that they were specifically willing to unban people who had been perma banned in order to "give them a second chance". Lo and behold he was them back in game bragging in /zone about getting away with using CE. He was banned most recently for imitating a *** rally in game (which should tell you something about his maturity).

Anyway. Do you actually play a sorc, or are you just naming names to say "hey look at that guy, he makes it look easy"?

And please elaborate on what your point about fear is? Of course it gives stun immunity, it is itself a stun + snare + dmg debuff. It is in fact more powerful than most CCs because of the long duration. How do you spin that as being "enough time to regen resources" for sorcs hit by it instead of one of the strongest CCs in the game?

I think what he's talking about with fear is that you can't cc a magicka player faster than his stamina can return. So after you break free as long as you don't use stamina for anything else your stamina pool will be basically full before you can be CC'd again.

I understand the argument, except it's not correct. Base CC break cost is 4872, 100 points in tumbling can bring it down to 3898 iirc (correct me if the numbers have changed). A sorc's stam regen is going to be about 675, so if they do no blocks or dodges and only CC break, they are experiencing a net loss of 1873 stam for every CC break. If they have tri pot active, it's a loss of 1468 stam per CC.

Being extremely generous here, that's 14 CC breaks back to back they can do until they are out of stam. Of course in real combat, even sorcs need to block and dodge to avoid being blown up and they aren't investing 100 points into tumbling.

smashcats

Here's the problem I'm seeing on my mag sorc.

proc crystal frags on trash, crits for 27k

proc crystal frags against a player, crits for 4.5k

wtf? I wanna do damage....lol

Also yes shield duration is so low that I gave up playing mag sorc a long time ago they suck unless you have spell pen build

Minalan

smashcats wrote: »

Here's the problem I'm seeing on my mag sorc.

proc crystal frags on trash, crits for 27k

proc crystal frags against a player, crits for 4.5k

wtf? I wanna do damage....lol

Also yes shield duration is so low that I gave up playing mag sorc a long time ago they suck unless you have spell pen build

27K/2 is only 13K or so with battle spirit.
Armor will take almost a third of that off.
That 27K was a definitely a crit, Cyrodiil people wear 20-30% crit reduction between CP and Impen gear.
Then you have CP like Hardy and Elemental defender, so take off another 15-20% damage.

=4K crystal frags

People raise that with crit damage CP (elfborn)
Then add in Spell penetration CP (erosion)
Then you wear light armor (5K pen)
Then you start with much much higher damage (3.5K spell damage OR 50K max magicka) for 35-40K frags
People empower their crystal frags with entropy or Mage light for 20% damage bonus.

= 15K or so, the most I see around. But you're only going to get there when you're closer to 500 CP.

You have to understand how the combat system works in PVP and 'game' it. This is how theory crafters come up with builds, by understanding the numbers and how they affect combat.

LegacyDM

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

He's still playing. Has he been banned again? I can only assume he's not currently cheating since his account is active. he is an example of someone shield stacking with no problems. Regardless, I've provide many other examples of top sorcs shield stacking with no issues. As for cc. Fear is great except it gives people stun immunity and enough time to regen resources if the sorc knows what they are doing. It's not a Magick instant win button.

In regards to your question, and without naming him, yes he was perma banned for using CE months ago, but ZOS reversed the ban a week later, and stated on the fourms in regards to it and other like cases, that they were specifically willing to unban people who had been perma banned in order to "give them a second chance". Lo and behold he was them back in game bragging in /zone about getting away with using CE. He was banned most recently for imitating a *** rally in game (which should tell you something about his maturity).

Anyway. Do you actually play a sorc, or are you just naming names to say "hey look at that guy, he makes it look easy"?

And please elaborate on what your point about fear is? Of course it gives stun immunity, it is itself a stun + snare + dmg debuff. It is in fact more powerful than most CCs because of the long duration. How do you spin that as being "enough time to regen resources" for sorcs hit by it instead of one of the strongest CCs in the game?

I think what he's talking about with fear is that you can't cc a magicka player faster than his stamina can return. So after you break free as long as you don't use stamina for anything else your stamina pool will be basically full before you can be CC'd again.

I understand the argument, except it's not correct. Base CC break cost is 4872, 100 points in tumbling can bring it down to 3898 iirc (correct me if the numbers have changed). A sorc's stam regen is going to be about 675, so if they do no blocks or dodges and only CC break, they are experiencing a net loss of 1873 stam for every CC break. If they have tri pot active, it's a loss of 1468 stam per CC.

Being extremely generous here, that's 14 CC breaks back to back they can do until they are out of stam. Of course in real combat, even sorcs need to block and dodge to avoid being blown up and they aren't investing 100 points into tumbling.

Magicka nightblade doesn't do enough dps to kill a sorc who is shield stacking 3 shields, counter attacking, and gets caught in fear. In addition, sorcs don't stand still. They lay minds and bolt around. You catch one with a fear they can mist form, bolt away to gain stam, or counter stun with an instant frag and go on the offensive. So the argument that fear is a magic I win button is just not the case. Now back to the topic at hand. I site the sorcs above because they know how to shield stack. Shields isn't the problem it's a l2p issue. More than enough sorcs know how to keep shields up while weaving in instant frags, crushing/force shock, heavy attacks, eye of flame, mines and mages wrath. For the op to ask for a buff to shields is ludicrous.a lot of people make it look easy and during my play time those are the players I'm constantly fighting. FYI I do have a vr16/50 sorc.

Mojmir

No

Waffennacht

I don't shield stack, I don't need to...

(I run a ward and a heal instead of two wards... logic is that wards won't get you outta execute range and RD can be anywhere...)

I have a very very good kill/death ratio in dueling and Cyrodiil with this build.

It is It's own form of cheese though,

Mines, Infernal Guardian, Soul Assault, everything people complain about in a magicka sorc

jrgray93

I understand your frustration against the stamina proc meta but as a magicka templar, I can barely get through the shields as it is. I've often been complimented for my damage from people saying it's great for a templar. The only way I can beat a good mag sorc is to lull them into a sense of security until they drop their shield and hope to catch them off guard with the destro ult and a gap closer. They have to beat themselves because we just can't burst down those shields.

I don't think your shields need a buff. I think the proc sets need a nerf. That's an ongoing discussion already.

Minalan

jrgray93 wrote: »

I understand your frustration against the stamina proc meta but as a magicka templar, I can barely get through the shields as it is. I've often been complimented for my damage from people saying it's great for a templar. The only way I can beat a good mag sorc is to lull them into a sense of security until they drop their shield and hope to catch them off guard with the destro ult and a gap closer. They have to beat themselves because we just can't burst down those shields.

I don't think your shields need a buff. I think the proc sets need a nerf. That's an ongoing discussion already.

We have the same problems fighting magplars who heal to full over and over again and spam radiant every chance they get with 25K of each resist. No hate here, I'd rather group with a magplar than any other spec to do anything. Yours is the single strongest magicka class in the game right now.

The imbalance is that your heavy armor is so much better than light that it isn't funny. Light armor doesn't do all that much more damage (6% with concentration. But isn't that outweighed by the wrath passive?).

The defense LA offers is pathetic, and it doesn't do much more damage. So we have the glass and no cannon.

What would you do to balance LA? More damage? Higher protection? Better shields? Nothing? Shields is the only way we can stand up in a fight against the HA meta. And they're lacking right now.

None of us want to go back to the Thieves Guild Sorc game, but something like an 8 second shield is not unreasonable.