PROC SETS

KramUzibra · November 2016

Soundwave wrote: »

While PvP and Pve can wear the same gear, imbalance will always occur. Complaining will never end, unless u keep proc sets out of pvp. Barring them from PvP would easier then just nerfing them and destroying them. Proc sets r awesome for Pve, they don't need a nerf.

I don't think proc sets should be barred from PvP because not all proc sets are bad. If the proc set is a guaranteed hit regardless of dodge chance then it should have a very obvious indicator like meteor this would allow me to preemptively block in order to mitigate the damage. Tremorscale is a guaranteed hit without an indicator. Proc sets like vipers or redmountain need to be seriously looked at and restructured since they are no skill required sets that provide guaranteed, unblockable, and undodgable damage. It's like driving a car with an automatic transmission. the transmission does all the work as opposed to a standard which would require some knowledge and effort in order for the car to function properly. Which is why no one really gripes about the manual proc sets like kena or alchemist.

kyle.wilson · November 2016

Don't forget, this is ZOS saying they are going to "fix" proc sets.

Which really means double procs for everyone. And make all the other sets proc sets too.

Like Oprah, everyone gets a proc!

Peekachu99 · November 2016

Oh, they'll have a balance pass I'm sure.

KramUzibra · November 2016

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Don't forget, this is ZOS saying they are going to "fix" proc sets.

Which really means double procs for everyone. And make all the other sets proc sets too.

Like Oprah, everyone gets a proc!

Oh god I hope not

eagles9595b16_ESO · November 2016

It's always the same, PVP's players complaining about the fact that they die and want to nerf skills or set.

As it has been explained by others, just use the same moster set.. each class has rapid combo skills to kill players.. just try to adapt.
I'm sure that the same players who are complaining did not have any problem to chain kills when they were able to.
Using the OP class skill etc... but know that any players can do the same against them they start to complain.

I just would like to remind you that PVE has been completly reworked (world boss have more than 1million health and cannot be soloed etc.) and all set or monster set are a consequence of that. Nerfing the best set in PVE is not the solution of your PVP problem.

I really hope that ZOS solution will only impact PVP and not PVE just because a bunch of guys cannot accept to die as fast as they used to kill others some weeks ago for months.
Many set have bonus that only work in PVP or Trials... I hope ZOS will use that mechanism to only impact any bonusses on the PVP side.

To all people who are crying for a nerf.. what do you suggest regarding the fact that people may have spent dozens of keys and hours to have the monster set or armor set you want to nerf ? hu ? do you think that it'll be really well appreciated and welcomed by PVE players ?

I read complains about Tremorscale, damn the first and only monster set which allow Tank to kill a bit faster in PVE and CC ?
Level up a tank class and you'll understand...

ZOS must not apply a any change that would impact PVE !!!
You never resolve any problem by creating another one.

KramUzibra · November 2016

eagles9595b16_ESO wrote: »

It's always the same, PVP's players complaining about the fact that they die and want to nerf skills or set.

As it has been explained by others, just use the same moster set.. each class has rapid combo skills to kill players.. just try to adapt.
I'm sure that the same players who are complaining did not have any problem to chain kills when they were able to.
Using the OP class skill etc... but know that any players can do the same against them they start to complain.

I just would like to remind you that PVE has been completly reworked (world boss have more than 1million health and cannot be soloed etc.) and all set or monster set are a consequence of that. Nerfing the best set in PVE is not the solution of your PVP problem.

I really hope that ZOS solution will only impact PVP and not PVE just because a bunch of guys cannot accept to die as fast as they used to kill others some weeks ago for months.
Many set have bonus that only work in PVP or Trials... I hope ZOS will use that mechanism to only impact any bonusses on the PVP side.

To all people who are crying for a nerf.. what do you suggest regarding the fact that people may have spent dozens of keys and hours to have the monster set or armor set you want to nerf ? hu ? do you think that it'll be really well appreciated and welcomed by PVE players ?

I read complains about Tremorscale, damn the first and only monster set which allow Tank to kill a bit faster in PVE and CC ?
Level up a tank class and you'll understand...

ZOS must not apply a any change that would impact PVE !!!
You never resolve any problem by creating another one.

Lol and you never resolve any problem by doing nothing. Certain proc sets needs restructuring.

PrinceBoru · November 2016

These proc sets...
I've never had as many "Wtf was that?!" deaths.

mrowmrif2 · November 2016

Ahzek wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Really? But why do I get killed faster when in non inpen gear?

Cause impen reduces the damage you take from critical strikes. I dont know the exact calculations atm, but i dont think you will be able to reduce the crit damage bonus to 0 without extreme investment (CP +8 gold pieces + transmutation).
This also gets directly counteracted by +% crit damage from the attacking player, so a 7/7 divines shadow NB will still be able to crit for very respectable ammounts on regular impen targets.

And i am not sure if this is working as intended, got fixed or is still broken but... i tested impen and Resistant CP passive like 6 months ago with a friend... magic damage was unaffected by impenetrable trait on gear while it was affected by Resistant. I could detail my experiment if you want, but it was pretty thorough... 0% crit damage reduction from impen vs funnel health and inferno staff attacks but definite damage reduction vs poison injection and bow attacks.

STEVIL · November 2016

@KramUzibra

You say

Proc sets like vipers or redmountain need to be seriously looked at and restructured since they are no skill required sets that provide guaranteed, unblockable, and undodgable damage.

Three questions

When you say no skill required do you mean "no skill or expertise on the players part" or "player did not have to click an in-game skill"?

I have seen it used both ways.

Second, Viper sting procs on a melee attack. You say it is unblockable. But if I block the melee attack, isn't the proc dmg blocked unless somehow I drop the block btwn hit and proc? Also you say undodgable, if my shuffle miss change or dodge roll causes the melee miss I don't get proc viper sting dmg, do i?

Third question

If a weapon has a shock enchant, do you also view that enchant as no skill required, undodgeable and unblockable?

Thelon · November 2016

eagles9595b16_ESO wrote: »

world boss have more than 1million health and cannot be soloed

lol

Universe · November 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.

Finally!

Thanks for letting us know

KramUzibra · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

@KramUzibra

You say

Proc sets like vipers or redmountain need to be seriously looked at and restructured since they are no skill required sets that provide guaranteed, unblockable, and undodgable damage.

Three questions

When you say no skill required do you mean "no skill or expertise on the players part" or "player did not have to click an in-game skill"?

I have seen it used both ways.

Second, Viper sting procs on a melee attack. You say it is unblockable. But if I block the melee attack, isn't the proc dmg blocked unless somehow I drop the block btwn hit and proc? Also you say undodgable, if my shuffle miss change or dodge roll causes the melee miss I don't get proc viper sting dmg, do i?

Third question

If a weapon has a shock enchant, do you also view that enchant as no skill required, undodgeable and unblockable?

Hmm..never looked at it like that, I'll have to do some research in order to properly answer those questions. Either way zos apparently understands there to be problem with procs which is way they are seeking possible solution.

No the enchantment only applies when the target is hit. So it's at least dodge able.

Darethran · November 2016

When it comes to enchants, those are pretty much available to anyone that has done a couple quests 'n' saved the coin rewards. They're also not utterly insane on their own, whereas a single procset deals, what, 8-10k damage each? Then factor in multiple procsets, and people having one or two weapon enchants alongside that...Ew.

In regards to how they should be balanced, there are several solutions I've come up with on the spot:

1. Make all "special" 5x set bonuses inactive when in PvP; this is the authoritarian blanket solution. Quite frankly, I'm rather enamored with it, as the damage ceiling will come right down for everybody in all PvP situations; less demi-godly, more soldierly.

2. Change the current procset bonuses to be PvE only, with the PvP bonuses being another incremental step in stats, like the 1x, 2x, 3x & 4x set bonuses.

3. Same as #2, but with no 5x set bonus at all.

4. In PvP, you are only able to have the set bonuses from one equipment set active. This is decided by the items you equip first; wear nothing and equip a set's bracer, your set bonuses will only come from the set associated with that bracer.

5. Make procset damage a small bonus (PvP only?), rather than a full-blown damage dealer. As an example, the Ashen Grip set's 10% proc deals 1.5k damage. That's not even half a skill on the damage recap screen; that's good, as a procset attack is literally free, no-cost damage.

Necrelios · November 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.

Maybe we could get Vicious Death to proc on NPC's too

?

Waffennacht · November 2016

It's the amount of damage the proc sets do, and the fact that damage triggers them makes them MORE powerful, not less.

To the two above discussing blocking or dodging.

That's fine and great if you were to say blocking and dodging EVERY attack was possible and probable. It is not. Normally when you fail to dodge or block you take 1 attacks worth of damage (ICD) before you then can respond. This allows for heals, defensive maneuvers, etc. However, when the ICD of attacks is bypassed because of triggers and triggered damage, that one attack becomes 2 or 3, usually resulting in death or zero counter play.

Enchantments do the same thing, but their damage is nowhere near that of a fully specced attack. Only an extremely offensive build can get tooltips of 12k (Selene) however these sets achieve it freely. And again they bypass the game's ICD mechanisms adding even more power.

Imo the best solution to proc sets, would be something along the lines of in PvP their damage is reduced by 75% rather than the normal 50% to abilities, while maintaining the lesser reduction on the moves themselves.

Altercator · November 2016

Proc sets make PvE too easy.

STEVIL · November 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@KramUzibra

You say

Proc sets like vipers or redmountain need to be seriously looked at and restructured since they are no skill required sets that provide guaranteed, unblockable, and undodgable damage.

Three questions

When you say no skill required do you mean "no skill or expertise on the players part" or "player did not have to click an in-game skill"?

I have seen it used both ways.

Second, Viper sting procs on a melee attack. You say it is unblockable. But if I block the melee attack, isn't the proc dmg blocked unless somehow I drop the block btwn hit and proc? Also you say undodgable, if my shuffle miss change or dodge roll causes the melee miss I don't get proc viper sting dmg, do i?

Third question

If a weapon has a shock enchant, do you also view that enchant as no skill required, undodgeable and unblockable?

Hmm..never looked at it like that, I'll have to do some research in order to properly answer those questions. Either way zos apparently understands there to be problem with procs which is way they are seeking possible solution.

No the enchantment only applies when the target is hit. So it's at least dodge able.

Viper doesnt proc on a miss in my experience and is just as blocksble as poison enchsnt.

But when you finish researching whst you meant by skill required, pls let me know.

STEVIL · November 2016

MajinCry wrote: »

When it comes to enchants, those are pretty much available to anyone that has done a couple quests 'n' saved the coin rewards. They're also not utterly insane on their own, whereas a single procset deals, what, 8-10k damage each? Then factor in multiple procsets, and people having one or two weapon enchants alongside that...Ew.

In regards to how they should be balanced, there are several solutions I've come up with on the spot:

1. Make all "special" 5x set bonuses inactive when in PvP; this is the authoritarian blanket solution. Quite frankly, I'm rather enamored with it, as the damage ceiling will come right down for everybody in all PvP situations; less demi-godly, more soldierly.

2. Change the current procset bonuses to be PvE only, with the PvP bonuses being another incremental step in stats, like the 1x, 2x, 3x & 4x set bonuses.

3. Same as #2, but with no 5x set bonus at all.

4. In PvP, you are only able to have the set bonuses from one equipment set active. This is decided by the items you equip first; wear nothing and equip a set's bracer, your set bonuses will only come from the set associated with that bracer.

5. Make procset damage a small bonus (PvP only?), rather than a full-blown damage dealer. As an example, the Ashen Grip set's 10% proc deals 1.5k damage. That's not even half a skill on the damage recap screen; that's good, as a procset attack is literally free, no-cost damage.

yes, dead spot on, enchants like say 3k poison damage on a 1h wpn proc on a hit or chance with skill every 4s (or less) and are easy to get. Can be applied to ranged weapons too. Easily available by playing casual content to get 10kish gold or craftable!!! Heck, poison not even the best.

Compare to the 7400 viper on melee hit only same 4s but you havevto have 5pc set acquired from non-casual content and then up thevfive pc to full quality (vs one kuta.)

Of course, instead of going for 5pc viper, craft torugs.
Raise 3k per 4s to about 4k per 3s. Put perfect traits at the craft table, weapons no prob and let othervdrop set do jewels.

Sharpened torug wpns, inf/div armor all upped to whatever quality thru casyal ply vs farm/grins for viper.

Big diff in ease to get or the "earn" if you will.

Easy gets 4k dmg on hit melee or range every 3s but "earned" is 7.4k melee proc every 4s.

Fight that lasts 13s easy gets 20k and earn gets 30k.

So, what i am getting to is its the cumulative damage gained by bigger enchants, more damage producingbset, etc all combined that has created meta for quick kills that some people are objecting to.

Proc sets are the latest chg... making them scapegoat.

My bet is, if vipers gets its proc halved in dmg folksvwould be ok that are comolaining now. But the same level of less damage could be gained by removing the "Yes its a proc too" enchants.

There is nothing "obviously" wrong, intrinsically "bad" or inherently "unskilled or unfair" about procs. Every top player uses them be it thru damage, buff/debuff, enchants or poisons.

What has changed recently is more of them more readily available to more average level players.

STEVIL · November 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

It's the amount of damage the proc sets do, and the fact that damage triggers them makes them MORE powerful, not less.

To the two above discussing blocking or dodging.

That's fine and great if you were to say blocking and dodging EVERY attack was possible and probable. It is not. Normally when you fail to dodge or block you take 1 attacks worth of damage (ICD) before you then can respond. This allows for heals, defensive maneuvers, etc. However, when the ICD of attacks is bypassed because of triggers and triggered damage, that one attack becomes 2 or 3, usually resulting in death or zero counter play.

Enchantments do the same thing, but their damage is nowhere near that of a fully specced attack. Only an extremely offensive build can get tooltips of 12k (Selene) however these sets achieve it freely. And again they bypass the game's ICD mechanisms adding even more power.

Imo the best solution to proc sets, would be something along the lines of in PvP their damage is reduced by 75% rather than the normal 50% to abilities, while maintaining the lesser reduction on the moves themselves.

So look at viper. Its 5pc bonus adds a 7k attack roughly on top quality etc boosting every 4s.

Compare to elegants which can boost 20% every light/hvy including overload. Throw in crits... no 4s cooldown. Of course that huge chunk of dmg doesnt show on recap as its own item.

Imo its not procs sets etc, its that we are at a place where right now burst damage is too high for some.

Procs for damage, buff, heal, debuff etc have been here since the day one and top flight players, mid-tier players alike used them.

Add maybe a 10s or longer global proc cooldown to battle spirit. That will stop multi-proc sets. But apply it broadly to procs, dont use it to pick and choose between metas.

KramUzibra · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@KramUzibra

You say

Proc sets like vipers or redmountain need to be seriously looked at and restructured since they are no skill required sets that provide guaranteed, unblockable, and undodgable damage.

Three questions

When you say no skill required do you mean "no skill or expertise on the players part" or "player did not have to click an in-game skill"?

I have seen it used both ways.

Second, Viper sting procs on a melee attack. You say it is unblockable. But if I block the melee attack, isn't the proc dmg blocked unless somehow I drop the block btwn hit and proc? Also you say undodgable, if my shuffle miss change or dodge roll causes the melee miss I don't get proc viper sting dmg, do i?

Third question

If a weapon has a shock enchant, do you also view that enchant as no skill required, undodgeable and unblockable?

Hmm..never looked at it like that, I'll have to do some research in order to properly answer those questions. Either way zos apparently understands there to be problem with procs which is way they are seeking possible solution.

No the enchantment only applies when the target is hit. So it's at least dodge able.

Viper doesnt proc on a miss in my experience and is just as blocksble as poison enchsnt.

But when you finish researching whst you meant by skill required, pls let me know.

Don't need to research the skill aspect of certain procs. in my opinion No skill is spam until all my procs go off and kill my opponent. Which is why I run hundings, marksman with kena and blood spawn. The damage I apply is because I activated the ability that applies that damage in sequence with positioning, buffs, heals, dodging and blocking when necessary, timing, anticipation, Situational awareness and utilizing the surroundings i.e line of sight. Gap closing and spamming puncture until all your procs hit is not skill.

Nemeliom · November 2016

People complain too much about procs, but not about invincible players.
OK, procs will go away soon probably. Get ready for incoming new qq posts.
And even if proc sets are gone, gankers will find a way to insta kill again.

Milicent · November 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.

Just make pvp only sets and pve only set.

please not let you fix affect pve.

Warden · November 2016

Crafted sets only and dropped jewlery in pvp please

Maybe when battlegrounds comes out we can get this

KramUzibra · November 2016

Warden wrote: »

Crafted sets only and dropped jewlery in pvp please Maybe when battlegrounds comes out we can get this

Lol I'm down!

olsborg · November 2016

Procc sets are cancer for pvp atm, and a big chunk of my friendlist have already more or less shelfed ESOPvP and im getting closer to doing the same. Something must be done where skills matter much more then proccs.

Onitenchu · November 2016

Any time a vast majority of people all try to obtain the same set ups it's because it's, at that time, somewhat or highly over powered. The track record in all mmo follow this trend, and the nerf bat generally follows. My Nick name for these is "luck builds" because people rely on chance to get any good results, rather than a consistent skill/strategy based builds. It's when you combine the two that it becomes op. Non experienced players will have issues regardless against veteran pvpers no matter what procs they have equipped. Here's a tip: veldreth is countered by simply walking in a circle around the user whilst keeping enough stam to break a hard cc.

STEVIL · November 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@KramUzibra

You say

Proc sets like vipers or redmountain need to be seriously looked at and restructured since they are no skill required sets that provide guaranteed, unblockable, and undodgable damage.

Three questions

When you say no skill required do you mean "no skill or expertise on the players part" or "player did not have to click an in-game skill"?

I have seen it used both ways.

Second, Viper sting procs on a melee attack. You say it is unblockable. But if I block the melee attack, isn't the proc dmg blocked unless somehow I drop the block btwn hit and proc? Also you say undodgable, if my shuffle miss change or dodge roll causes the melee miss I don't get proc viper sting dmg, do i?

Third question

If a weapon has a shock enchant, do you also view that enchant as no skill required, undodgeable and unblockable?

Hmm..never looked at it like that, I'll have to do some research in order to properly answer those questions. Either way zos apparently understands there to be problem with procs which is way they are seeking possible solution.

No the enchantment only applies when the target is hit. So it's at least dodge able.

Viper doesnt proc on a miss in my experience and is just as blocksble as poison enchsnt.

But when you finish researching whst you meant by skill required, pls let me know.

Don't need to research the skill aspect of certain procs. in my opinion No skill is spam until all my procs go off and kill my opponent. Which is why I run hundings, marksman with kena and blood spawn. The damage I apply is because I activated the ability that applies that damage in sequence with positioning, buffs, heals, dodging and blocking when necessary, timing, anticipation, Situational awareness and utilizing the surroundings i.e line of sight. Gap closing and spamming puncture until all your procs hit is not skill.

So from this I would guess there are a lot of gear and builds that you would deride as no skill, not just no procs. Would I be right?

Super-health blaze shield "bubbleplar"? builds seem more similar in play mechanics to procs than you derision-free style.

As far as the SETS go, you are not describing a problem with the set.

You are describing your "problem" with a play style build combo that work together and are not like yours.

Case in point, your build.

Hundings 5pc applies every time you click on anything boosted by wpn dmg. It "procs" it's bonus damage as many times a second as you can have effects up. More over, it will "proc" whether or not you do flippin' back flip six-finger death spiral rotations of skillful divinity or if you just spam rapid strikes. It will proc on your bow attacks from stealth. It will proc on your melee attacks. What you do, whatever you do, it procs.

Key being if you need to be ranged, it still procs.

Vipee, well, it only procs at melee. Enemy kept you mostly our side melee, no proc.
Viper, every 4s. Enemy blocks for a second when you first get close.. blocks the attack and proc with one stamina cost not two then has 2-3s to play.

So to get the benefit of the 5pc bonus, the viper player has actual objectives he needs to accomplish.

You can always just choose to deride one playstylle or another.

But in reality viper pays out its 5pc bonus in far fewer, more limited circumstances than hundings 5pc.

Just like you get (we hope) more dmg from you skilled play of doom than you would from a muggle spam attack, so you could likely get more damage out of the taunt set.

The SET is neither skilled or unskilled.
There may or may not be spam sets - seem to recall sets req two light attacks to trigger bonus. Something I am sure a skill centric spam deriding player like yourself wouldn't go near, I suppose.

silky_soft · November 2016

They will do another proc set dump in the golden before they push anything. Just to bleed the economy that little extra.

scrobey · November 2016

Only people that defend proc sets are the ones obviously using them.

Deathgiggle · November 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.

It takes a lot of time to farm some of these sets with the right traits and so forth. Please do not let PvP adjustments ruin our PvE experience. Proc sets basically balance themselves as everyone can wear them. Just as you get ganked by someone with a proc set and it hits you for X amount of damage, your own proc set can just as effectively hit him for X amount of damage. How is that not fair?