PROC SETS

SanderBuraas

Most players take advantage of proc sets now, just because they are too strong. Allow me to provide my thoughts on the subject and propose a solution for balance.

THE ISSUE WITH PROC SETS

Programmed random occurence sets are an unnatural damage source. They do not require you to press a button or consume resources, contrary to a skill. Most proc sets can also not be dodged. Victims of proc sets are dealt unexpected burst damage. Another big issue with proc sets is how they can be synergized, especially those with a low cooldown and a high to guaranteed chance to proc. A few examples: Viper's Sting, Velidreth and Tremorscale.

EXAMPLES

Now, I will provide two examples to demonstrate. The screenshots were taken on the non-cp campaign Azura's Star. The images are death recaps after being ganked, though the point is to show the damage being dealt.



The total damage done is 21,089. The damage done solely by proc sets is 10,216. This damage is unnatural burst damage. The damage done by skills, including ultimate, is 10,873. As for percentages, the procs did 48,4% of the damage done, whereas the skills did 51,6% of the damage done.



Here I had less health. Yet, after only using one skill, the player is able to do 13,232 damage. The damage done solely by proc sets is 10,245. The Ambush only did 2,987. The procs did 77,4% of the damage done, and the skill did 22,6% of the damage done.

Damage per second is not relevant in pvp, as players are able to roll dodge, crowd control, buff, debuff, heal, dodge with Evasion, block and get out of line of sight. After you proc the sets, there is a cooldown, but you can heal, apply buffs or roll dodge during the downtime. Burst damage is very important in pvp, which is exactly what proc sets provide you with.

A SOLUTION

A high to guaranteed chance to proc unnatural burst damage is a problem. All proc sets should be about risk and reward. If you use one, it should not be a reliable damage source, but rather a pleasant surprise. Therefore, all proc sets should have a low to medium chance to proc, the maximum being twenty percent, just like poisons. Synergizing proc sets should not be possible as it is now; a global cooldown should be introduced. The cooldown should be ten seconds, again, just like poisons. If this were to be added, you would in a way be punished for using several proc sets.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I'll save you the 8 pages of replies ...

- 10 people will agree
- 5 will say how they have quit
- all will rejoice in hating the devs
- 1 person will come with a reasonable counter argument
- that person will get shouted down and called a scrub by people who have never played with them
- the next 3 pages will be an argument about skill
- the thread will fade away when someone comes along with the same idea in 20 minutes

Credit due for at least making a coherent post. Generally they start with a much larger block of text and 14 swear words.

Anyway, yes they are annoying and will eventually get nerfed into tickle range like most things people complain about.

Cronopoly

And about 1/5th of the posts will dissapear into the ether while some still think that the Z was going to reveal some new insight. Nope... just housecleaning to prevent the appearance of mass discontent.

@Fenrush was right in his method...

Shad0wfire99

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I'll save you the 8 pages of replies ...

- 10 people will agree
- 5 will say how they have quit
- all will rejoice in hating the devs
- 1 person will come with a reasonable counter argument
- that person will get shouted down and called a scrub by people who have never played with them
- the next 3 pages will be an argument about skill
- the thread will fade away when someone comes along with the same idea in 20 minutes

Credit due for at least making a coherent post. Generally they start with a much larger block of text and 14 swear words.

Anyway, yes they are annoying and will eventually get nerfed into tickle range like most things people complain about.

Yep. This.

Spearshard

I completely agree that it unbalanced pvp. And I'm fully expecting my gear to be heavily nerfed into the ground in a few months after all my effort to get it. I should also say I almost exclusively pve, and fully support the balance, just wish it could be achieved separately.

Mojmir

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I'll save you the 8 pages of replies ...

- 10 people will agree
- 5 will say how they have quit
- all will rejoice in hating the devs
- 1 person will come with a reasonable counter argument
- that person will get shouted down and called a scrub by people who have never played with them
- the next 3 pages will be an argument about skill
- the thread will fade away when someone comes along with the same idea in 20 minutes

Credit due for at least making a coherent post. Generally they start with a much larger block of text and 14 swear words.

Anyway, yes they are annoying and will eventually get nerfed into tickle range like most things people complain about.

You forgot to add meme opportunity taken,

leepalmer95

99% will agree with you.

1% will defend them because they likely use them and the rng is the first tine they've been able to kill people.

Some will tell you to adapt and do great things like dont use impen in order to do higher dmg on your ult *cough* @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO *cough* and you will know to just ignore them.

Some will tell you to adapt and then offer no advice on how exactly to 'adapt' apart from the obvious of run with 40k hp or run the same build.

This forum is pointless, most of the knowledgeable and helpful people have left and it's mostly filled with people who only bother to talk when it's something affecting their likely only character or the easy mode meta they've adapted too. It's just toxic and pointless as the dev's just ignore any feedback here anyway, aoe caps, poisons, snare on gap closers etc..

Syiccal

You just described velidreth with what you wanted changed.
It already has 9 second cool down and a 20% chance .
Not really reliable dmg but fun to use.
Viper and tremorscale combo on other hand I agree should have different cool downs or at least make tremorscale work as intended..TAUNT not attack and as you can't taunt another player it shouldn't be viable in pvp.

Doctordarkspawn

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I'll save you the 8 pages of replies ...

- 10 people will agree
- 5 will say how they have quit
- all will rejoice in hating the devs
- 1 person will come with a reasonable counter argument
- that person will get shouted down and called a scrub by people who have never played with them
- the next 3 pages will be an argument about skill
- the thread will fade away when someone comes along with the same idea in 20 minutes

Credit due for at least making a coherent post. Generally they start with a much larger block of text and 14 swear words.

Anyway, yes they are annoying and will eventually get nerfed into tickle range like most things people complain about.

This.

UrbanMonk

Well...PVE part of this game has always unbalanced the PVP part. Most of the sets designed are for PVE but as soon as they are used in PVP...something breaks...now I know someone would say that HOW can you distinguish between which is PVP and which is PVE sets. And to be frank, there is no way of telling it. Same goes for skills as well...we all know in past many of the skills have been abused by players and the trend to sue them by a mass just follows...same thing is happening with PROC sets! I'm not trying to defend them in any way as I use them myself, since I don't give a Fack...

The one thing is clear that right now PROC SETS are FoTM/ FoTP...and you use them or not is Upto your discretion and yes ! QQIng here is not gonna make ZOS change a god damm thing ...

My 0.2$...

Biro123

I was just surprised to find that they crit. Perhaps removing the possibility of them critting would be a good start for balance.

Waseem

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Well...PVE part of this game has always unbalanced the PVP part. Most of the sets designed are for PVE but as soon as they are used in PVP...something breaks...now I know someone would say that HOW can you distinguish between which is PVP and which is PVE sets. And to be frank, there is no way of telling it. Same goes for skills as well...we all know in past many of the skills have been abused by players and the trend to sue them by a mass just follows...same thing is happening with PROC sets! I'm not trying to defend them in any way as I use them myself, since I don't give a Fack...

The one thing is clear that right now PROC SETS are FoTM/ FoTP...and you use them or not is Upto your discretion and yes ! QQIng here is not gonna make ZOS change a god damm thing ...

My 0.2$...

those are 20 (twenty) cents
i think your intensions were 2 cents not 20 === 0.02$
and no, i havent your whole post/reply

Enslaved

Biro123 wrote: »

I was just surprised to find that they crit. Perhaps removing the possibility of them critting would be a good start for balance.

They crit only on builds with 50+ % crit chance. If the target is fully impen with at least 30 CP into reduced crit. If target is any less, even builds under 50% crit will crit. That is what I saw from my own recaps.

Ahzek

Enslaved wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I was just surprised to find that they crit. Perhaps removing the possibility of them critting would be a good start for balance.

They crit only on builds with 50+ % crit chance. If the target is fully impen with at least 30 CP into reduced crit. If target is any less, even builds under 50% crit will crit. That is what I saw from my own recaps.

Its interesting to see a relic from 1.5 breathing and even talking among us.
I wonder what interesting stories it has to tell from times long past.

For real though, impen doesnt reduce crit chance for over a year now.

Enslaved

Really? But why do I get killed faster when in non inpen gear?

FloppyTouch

But if Everyone uses them then it's fair right?

I'm not serious FYI

mr_wazzabi

Smepic wrote: »

Most players take advantage of proc sets now, just because they are too strong. Allow me to provide my thoughts on the subject and propose a solution for balance.

THE ISSUE WITH PROC SETS

Programmed random occurence sets are an unnatural damage source. They do not require you to press a button or consume resources, contrary to a skill. Most proc sets can also not be dodged. Victims of proc sets are dealt unexpected burst damage. Another big issue with proc sets is how they can be synergized, especially those with a low cooldown and a high to guaranteed chance to proc. A few examples: Viper's Sting, Velidreth and Tremorscale.

A SOLUTION

A high to guaranteed chance to proc unnatural burst damage is a problem. All proc sets should be about risk and reward. If you use one, it should not be a reliable damage source, but rather a pleasant surprise. Therefore, all proc sets should have a low to medium chance to proc, the maximum being twenty percent, just like poisons. Synergizing proc sets should not be possible as it is now; a global cooldown should be introduced. The cooldown should be ten seconds, again, just like poisons. If this were to be added, you would in a way be punished for using several proc sets.

The only ones that might need a tweak are the ones you mentioned, but all the others are fine as they are because of their low proc chance. Grothdar, nerieneth, skoria, illambris are all balanced and only good for pve. Actually skoria needs a buff if anything as its proc chance is lower than others.

I have no idea why velidreth is 20% when all the magicka proc sets are 10% and below.

hrothbern

Using multiple damaging Proc sets should do fair damage, but always a bit lower than builds having none or just one damaging Proc set.

and ideal for starting players, not yet well skilled in rotations and situational awarenes.

My 2 cents

Gargath

Another thread about balance/nerf of some really good stuff.
I don't pvp and need proc sets for high damage in pve.
You can call me a scrub, I don't care .

Knootewoot

They should add a risk for wearing proc sets. Not to harsh though. something like:

Velidreth Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage, you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 disease spores in front of you that deal 10320 Disease Damage to the first enemy hit. Thie effect can occur once every 9 seconds. If you die, both pieces drops as free loot in the world.

That way the Risk vs. reward is better balanced. It should be on the last piece of any proc-set.

Ahzek

Enslaved wrote: »

Really? But why do I get killed faster when in non inpen gear?

Cause impen reduces the damage you take from critical strikes. I dont know the exact calculations atm, but i dont think you will be able to reduce the crit damage bonus to 0 without extreme investment (CP +8 gold pieces + transmutation).
This also gets directly counteracted by +% crit damage from the attacking player, so a 7/7 divines shadow NB will still be able to crit for very respectable ammounts on regular impen targets.

Edziu

Knootewoot wrote: »

They should add a risk for wearing proc sets. Not to harsh though. something like:

Velidreth Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage, you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 disease spores in front of you that deal 10320 Disease Damage to the first enemy hit. Thie effect can occur once every 9 seconds. If you die, both pieces drops as free loot in the world.

That way the Risk vs. reward is better balanced. It should be on the last piece of any proc-set.

nice, after 200+ key got finally what you wanted armor type with divines an shoulder, farmed helm with divines, doing a dung with randoms because you have no anyone from friends who can/want also, they see your procing set in dung, they decided to wipe you, trying to lure boss attacks on only you and no healing, gold tempers and months farming keys for perfect set items are going *** because those radoms was working together against you.

on pvp you dying regular bcause of zerglings, ok, no more proc sets then but if you have only 1 then why cant you use it?
annyoing is when someone have 2 or more proc sets at once.
on pvp you will get zerged and after all tbagged and robbed by your gold set and again tbagged by zerg, now zerg have additional person with procing set upgraded to gold because you wanted to go on cyro while nothing to do at this moment in pve for you

Nyx2

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I'll save you the 8 pages of replies ...

- 10 people will agree
- 5 will say how they have quit
- all will rejoice in hating the devs
- 1 person will come with a reasonable counter argument
- that person will get shouted down and called a scrub by people who have never played with them
- the next 3 pages will be an argument about skill
- the thread will fade away when someone comes along with the same idea in 20 minutes

Credit due for at least making a coherent post. Generally they start with a much larger block of text and 14 swear words.

Anyway, yes they are annoying and will eventually get nerfed into tickle range like most things people complain about.

More than half these threads are filled with PvE players who whine about this valid criticism without making any arguments and showing their ignorance on how the game actually works. Or the people using these sets defending them and demand that people come up with counters against broken sets. "Reasonable counter arguments" won't be found anywhere.

Armitas

Give it the major minor treatment. You can only get one damage proc and one support proc.

SanderBuraas

Gargath wrote: »

Another thread about balance/nerf of some really good stuff.
I don't pvp and need proc sets for high damage in pve.
You can call me a scrub, I don't care .

My thread is obviously regarding pvp. The current state of it is awful.

hrothbern wrote: »

Using multiple damaging Proc sets should do fair damage, but always a bit lower than builds having none or just one damaging Proc set.

and ideal for starting players, not yet well skilled in rotations and situational awarenes.

My 2 cents

Considering how proc sets such as Viper can not be dodged or predicted, your argument is not valid. In pvp, you are able to dodge most skills. Proccing is not fair, hence why I brought up the concept of risk and reward.

Jaronking

Gargath wrote: »

Another thread about balance/nerf of some really good stuff.
I don't pvp and need proc sets for high damage in pve.
You can call me a scrub, I don't care .

Are you talking about one proc set or multiple proc sets?

Knootewoot

Edziu wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

They should add a risk for wearing proc sets. Not to harsh though. something like:

Velidreth Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage, you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 disease spores in front of you that deal 10320 Disease Damage to the first enemy hit. Thie effect can occur once every 9 seconds. If you die, both pieces drops as free loot in the world.

That way the Risk vs. reward is better balanced. It should be on the last piece of any proc-set.

nice, after 200+ key got finally what you wanted armor type with divines an shoulder, farmed helm with divines, doing a dung with randoms because you have no anyone from friends who can/want also, they see your procing set in dung, they decided to wipe you, trying to lure boss attacks on only you and no healing, gold tempers and months farming keys for perfect set items are going *** because those radoms was working together against you.

on pvp you dying regular bcause of zerglings, ok, no more proc sets then but if you have only 1 then why cant you use it?
annyoing is when someone have 2 or more proc sets at once.
on pvp you will get zerged and after all tbagged and robbed by your gold set and again tbagged by zerg, now zerg have additional person with procing set upgraded to gold because you wanted to go on cyro while nothing to do at this moment in pve for you

Never played games like Darkfall Online eh?

The fun part when you loose all your items on death which can be looted by anyone is that 80% of the players don't give a crap anymore about loot and start having fun. 19 %stash their precious loot in a bank vault. The last 1% are very good players who don't die because they are good and have good armor.

But keep calm. I was just joking. Instead of having it for free loot upon death I want them to nerf them into the ground or disable the last bonus in PvP.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Knootewoot wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

They should add a risk for wearing proc sets. Not to harsh though. something like:

Velidreth Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage, you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 disease spores in front of you that deal 10320 Disease Damage to the first enemy hit. Thie effect can occur once every 9 seconds. If you die, both pieces drops as free loot in the world.

That way the Risk vs. reward is better balanced. It should be on the last piece of any proc-set.

nice, after 200+ key got finally what you wanted armor type with divines an shoulder, farmed helm with divines, doing a dung with randoms because you have no anyone from friends who can/want also, they see your procing set in dung, they decided to wipe you, trying to lure boss attacks on only you and no healing, gold tempers and months farming keys for perfect set items are going *** because those radoms was working together against you.

on pvp you dying regular bcause of zerglings, ok, no more proc sets then but if you have only 1 then why cant you use it?
annyoing is when someone have 2 or more proc sets at once.
on pvp you will get zerged and after all tbagged and robbed by your gold set and again tbagged by zerg, now zerg have additional person with procing set upgraded to gold because you wanted to go on cyro while nothing to do at this moment in pve for you

Never played games like Darkfall Online eh?

The fun part when you loose all your items on death which can be looted by anyone is that 80% of the players don't give a crap anymore about loot and start having fun. 19 %stash their precious loot in a bank vault. The last 1% are very good players who don't die because they are good and have good armor.

But keep calm. I was just joking. Instead of having it for free loot upon death I want them to nerf them into the ground or disable the last bonus in PvP.

I wish we had a full loot server.

Knootewoot

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

They should add a risk for wearing proc sets. Not to harsh though. something like:

Velidreth Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage, you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 disease spores in front of you that deal 10320 Disease Damage to the first enemy hit. Thie effect can occur once every 9 seconds. If you die, both pieces drops as free loot in the world.

That way the Risk vs. reward is better balanced. It should be on the last piece of any proc-set.

nice, after 200+ key got finally what you wanted armor type with divines an shoulder, farmed helm with divines, doing a dung with randoms because you have no anyone from friends who can/want also, they see your procing set in dung, they decided to wipe you, trying to lure boss attacks on only you and no healing, gold tempers and months farming keys for perfect set items are going *** because those radoms was working together against you.

on pvp you dying regular bcause of zerglings, ok, no more proc sets then but if you have only 1 then why cant you use it?
annyoing is when someone have 2 or more proc sets at once.
on pvp you will get zerged and after all tbagged and robbed by your gold set and again tbagged by zerg, now zerg have additional person with procing set upgraded to gold because you wanted to go on cyro while nothing to do at this moment in pve for you

Never played games like Darkfall Online eh?

The fun part when you loose all your items on death which can be looted by anyone is that 80% of the players don't give a crap anymore about loot and start having fun. 19 %stash their precious loot in a bank vault. The last 1% are very good players who don't die because they are good and have good armor.

But keep calm. I was just joking. Instead of having it for free loot upon death I want them to nerf them into the ground or disable the last bonus in PvP.

I wish we had a full loot server.

To be honest... that would be awesome.

Edziu

Knootewoot wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

They should add a risk for wearing proc sets. Not to harsh though. something like:

Velidreth Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(2 items) When you deal damage, you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 disease spores in front of you that deal 10320 Disease Damage to the first enemy hit. Thie effect can occur once every 9 seconds. If you die, both pieces drops as free loot in the world.

That way the Risk vs. reward is better balanced. It should be on the last piece of any proc-set.

nice, after 200+ key got finally what you wanted armor type with divines an shoulder, farmed helm with divines, doing a dung with randoms because you have no anyone from friends who can/want also, they see your procing set in dung, they decided to wipe you, trying to lure boss attacks on only you and no healing, gold tempers and months farming keys for perfect set items are going *** because those radoms was working together against you.

on pvp you dying regular bcause of zerglings, ok, no more proc sets then but if you have only 1 then why cant you use it?
annyoing is when someone have 2 or more proc sets at once.
on pvp you will get zerged and after all tbagged and robbed by your gold set and again tbagged by zerg, now zerg have additional person with procing set upgraded to gold because you wanted to go on cyro while nothing to do at this moment in pve for you

Never played games like Darkfall Online eh?

The fun part when you loose all your items on death which can be looted by anyone is that 80% of the players don't give a crap anymore about loot and start having fun. 19 %stash their precious loot in a bank vault. The last 1% are very good players who don't die because they are good and have good armor.

But keep calm. I was just joking. Instead of having it for free loot upon death I want them to nerf them into the ground or disable the last bonus in PvP.

hehe, never player and dont played in any game where you are losing all what you have in backpack with open pvp, just dont like it.

and yea, as on pvp all proc sets are destroying pvp...in pve are ok but in pvp those set should be nerfed also to the ground by just battle spirit without nerfing them on pve, simple solution

incite

Take it down a nodge of 8 with battlespirit

Let it proc all it wants in pve