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PROC SETS
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Rebornlogic✭✭hmmm so we have 4 classes, templar, sorc, dk, nb
templar (mag) runs insane dmg to burn you to -40% then poof your dead jesus beam to death
templar (stam) infinite stam resources which in turn makes you invincible poof 10k hp back instant = long death
DK (mag) builds massive flame dmg flame whips all vamps and kills them whahahhah
DK (Stam) runs 50k+ hp taking no dmg
Sorc (mag) poping 20k dmg shields dealing massive dmg then implosion passive = bam insta dead
Sorc (stam) insane amount of survivabilty and very good dps and bam implosion kills you
NB (dont see many around)
(mag) poof! from stealth pops on stuns you then 2 hits you down
(stam) very high dmg with decent sustain that just bruns your health down
just so you know by asking for zos to nerf "proc sets" then you should also ask them to nerf "class proc passives"
or better yet make everyone have infinite tank battles, or even just stealth 2 hit everyone. and my personal favorite.... you ready?.... JESUS BEAM!!! lol3 -
Rebornlogic✭✭Most players take advantage of proc sets now, just because they are too strong. Allow me to provide my thoughts on the subject and propose a solution for balance.
THE ISSUE WITH PROC SETS
Programmed random occurence sets are an unnatural damage source. They do not require you to press a button or consume resources, contrary to a skill. Most proc sets can also not be dodged. Victims of proc sets are dealt unexpected burst damage. Another big issue with proc sets is how they can be synergized, especially those with a low cooldown and a high to guaranteed chance to proc. A few examples: Viper's Sting, Velidreth and Tremorscale.
EXAMPLES
Now, I will provide two examples to demonstrate. The screenshots were taken on the non-cp campaign Azura's Star. The images are death recaps after being ganked, though the point is to show the damage being dealt.
The total damage done is 21,089. The damage done solely by proc sets is 10,216. This damage is unnatural burst damage. The damage done by skills, including ultimate, is 10,873. As for percentages, the procs did 48,4% of the damage done, whereas the skills did 51,6% of the damage done.
Here I had less health. Yet, after only using one skill, the player is able to do 13,232 damage. The damage done solely by proc sets is 10,245. The Ambush only did 2,987. The procs did 77,4% of the damage done, and the skill did 22,6% of the damage done.
Damage per second is not relevant in pvp, as players are able to roll dodge, crowd control, buff, debuff, heal, dodge with Evasion, block and get out of line of sight. After you proc the sets, there is a cooldown, but you can heal, apply buffs or roll dodge during the downtime. Burst damage is very important in pvp, which is exactly what proc sets provide you with.
A SOLUTION
A high to guaranteed chance to proc unnatural burst damage is a problem. All proc sets should be about risk and reward. If you use one, it should not be a reliable damage source, but rather a pleasant surprise. Therefore, all proc sets should have a low to medium chance to proc, the maximum being twenty percent, just like poisons. Synergizing proc sets should not be possible as it is now; a global cooldown should be introduced. The cooldown should be ten seconds, again, just like poisons. If this were to be added, you would in a way be punished for using several proc sets.
not sure what class you are or what you run. but hmu in game and lets see how many procs your build runs. cause any viable build has 1-4. so if you dont run any procs your not gonna kill people. i understand to the extreme. but alot of people here complain about viper/tremor, and other builds. viper+tremor is rubbish i know from extensive testing. you can do the same amount of burst with any 2 piece monster helm that does physical/poison dmg. its puncture that makes it op, dont have to belive me, but ask someone running it to undaunted range taunt you and youll legit lol. you failed to list the most broken setup though with only 2 procs. black rose/2h maelstrom/any helm of choice/and 3 agi1 -
Tyvarra✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
OMG are you really listening? I'm so happy right now. We are at the stage where some ppl have left the game because of this, so pleeease do something.
How about you share your "solutions" beforehand and let us have a poll what we want or at least hear our opinion.
My "solution" would be to just turn down the damage from proc sets ONLY in PvP. They will be unattractive then and things hopefully get back to normal.Please fix the game!3 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
Thanks you because PvP is ruined. Even some people i respected for being good players with original loadouts now use this crap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox7ZSf_JYhE
It is getting out of hand since everybody and their mother in-law runs the same sets and skills. Magicka is shafted and there has to be done something WAAAY before the next update.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."3 -
Riga_Mortis✭✭✭✭✭At this point I would love it if they made pvp sets that could only be used in pvp and vice versa.
XBOX 1X
GT - TAGNUTZ0 -
Riga_Mortis✭✭✭✭✭From my experience its the double or even triple stacking of proc sets thats the main issue, dont remember this much forum activity when it was just viper for example.
1 proc set equipable at a time maybe?XBOX 1X
GT - TAGNUTZ2 -
keoma01✭✭Without proc sets there would be a huge gap between casual and really well equipped players, but with proc sets it is basically not existent. Treat Cyrodil as Group vs Group environment where logistic is more important than vMA weapons.3
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rebornlogic wrote: »just so you know by asking for zos to nerf "proc sets" then you should also ask them to nerf "class proc passives"
or better yet make everyone have infinite tank battles, or even just stealth 2 hit everyone. and my personal favorite.... you ready?.... JESUS BEAM!!! lol
yeah....but problem what we hahve those proc sets are hurting more no heavy armored playerforcing them to use heavy armor after much annyoing deaths by proc sets etc + in heavy armor specjally on stam, on mag also...you dont have that much less damage than in light/medium armor and here you have high resistant heavy armored players who you cant kill easily but they with burst still can kill without bigger problem if you arnt in heavy
ahh and those clas proc passives....I dont know if im blind or not...but class proc passives I see only on sorc, this implosion in execute phase + with magex wrath you have 4 sec to go down your enemy to 20% health and then its insta death for him, unblockable curse now with proced insane damage and stun crystal frag and this class passive proc from skill will execte you faster than jesus beam
I don tsee any class procs in dk, templar, nb, only skill without any procing like in sorc0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
Don't let it affect pve
I still prefer stats buff 5 piece bonus other than DPS Proc,
I agree solution should not affect PVE..Edited by Lord_Eomer on 12 November 2016 11:030 -
Coatmagic✭✭✭✭✭
✭*drags out the dead horse...
A SOLUTION
Disable the damn things in PvP like other games do. Problem solved.
And while they are at it they can disable some the skills everyone complains about as well.
Just STOP messing with PvE.6 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭i liked kena- i thought that was one set that was required to use skil in order for the player to manage- took skill for the player to successfully fire off- and could selectively fire off- and also - most importantly - had a COST for the player to use. so sure- they had more power- but it took from them something also. all sets should require the same consideration if theyre going to be given that much power. its ridiculous otherwise. ur turning the game into a test of farming patience. who can spend more time farming the better set to press one button to win.1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think they should give it the major minor treatment. You get 1 major damage proc, 1 major support proc thats it.Edited by Armitas on 12 November 2016 11:11Retired.
Nord mDK3 -
Spearshard✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno
For the love of god, please limit whatever you do to pvp. The issue is there, not pve. Tie it to battle spirit, or something, but leave us alone.5 -
UrbanMonk✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wonder what is worse...ZERG or PROC SETS?
Maybe I should make a poll about it...Urban.Monk
-Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
-Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
-Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24
youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ
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Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.1 -
Dakrana_Thrazvoth✭✭✭✭In my opinion proc sets are a problem because they are an additional source of damage too much important.
Because before in pvp for make damages we had : skills.
And now we have to do with : skills, procs sets, poisons.
They are like a another way to ignore damage reduction in pvp.
The result is incoming damages are higher, some sets together are extremely powerful. And time to kill is like fps game. It's not really fun. Nobody appreciate to be one shotted without having the time to react.
Procs sets should be non combinable. (or only 1 proc rest active)
Or design different gear for pvp and pve instead of create gear usable for both and generate news issues.2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The easiest way to balance the proc sets in PvP is to implement the same restrictions to them like they did with minor slayer/aegis. They only affect NPCs not Players, or they have an other proc chance against players
Example Viper: 5x Your meele attacks deal 8k poison damage against NPCs and have a 5% chance to deal 8k poison damage against players.
Example Velidreth: When you deal against an NPC you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 Spores which deal 13k disease damage
This should be applied to the following sets: Tremorscale, Viper, Widowmaker, Red Mountain, Infernal Guardian, Selene4 -
Riga_Mortis✭✭✭✭✭The easiest way to balance the proc sets in PvP is to implement the same restrictions to them like they did with minor slayer/aegis. They only affect NPCs not Players, or they have an other proc chance against players
Example Viper: 5x Your meele attacks deal 8k poison damage against NPCs and have a 5% chance to deal 8k poison damage against players.
Example Velidreth: When you deal against an NPC you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 Spores which deal 13k disease damage
This should be applied to the following sets: Tremorscale, Viper, Widowmaker, Red Mountain, Infernal Guardian, Selene
This really is all zos needs to do, but they will most likely just do a global proc set nerf, thus affecting pve aswell.
Hope Im wrong/surprised tho.
XBOX 1X
GT - TAGNUTZ0 -
oibam✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
Remove them all from PvP?
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Isellskooma✭✭✭✭
No *** way! Finally, finally, I can't believe it. Is this true! Oh my I'm freaking out.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
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KramUzibra✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
Thanl you thank you thank you0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Without proc sets there would be a huge gap between casual and really well equipped players, but with proc sets it is basically not existent. Treat Cyrodil as Group vs Group environment where logistic is more important than vMA weapons.
I never had issues with players that run the vma weapons. There's a reason there's a gap between casual and hardcore players as there should be. Maybe the more casual players just stick to group oriented PVP play styles in order to maintain competitiveness on the battlefield. They shouldn't be awarded a handicap like the proc sets simply because they're not as dedicated as other players. It's a learning process. the more you play the more you learn the better you get. Thank goodness there may be solution to the procs in the hopefully near future.0 -
elvenmad✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
Pretty simple solution as can be seen in many many other games, it is called 'global cooldown'
I dont know why this issue was not foreseen, its pretty obvious and clear being able to equip multiple items which have a chance proc for a powerful ability with no global cooldown so they could all proc at once is......well..........stupid.
The worst part is the time it takes you to do things, so many have give up PVP and just as many have left completely.
IMO PVP should be about skill and knowing your class, anything that could proc a large amount of damage should not work in PVP at all, its just bad design, lack of thought and obviously no real knowledge of how things work in a real PVP enviroment.< PC - EU >1 -
Abob✭✭✭Rebornlogic wrote: »templar (stam) infinite stam resources which in turn makes you invincible poof 10k hp back instant = long death
LOL
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Own✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just want to let you know that we're exploring some solutions for the current situation with proc sets. When we have the details nailed down, we'll be sure to share them with you.
!!!0 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Proc-sets can't be defended in PvE. It's ridicolous to have your DPS increased for mere seconds due to RNGesus. Sure, one proc-set is fine, monster set or something. But there's no real argument for defending 2 or more proc sets, not in PvE; not in PvP. Your damage shouldn't be calculated based on RNG. Just, never.Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
PC - EU.
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My title: The Maneater, Destroyer of Maneuvers, Bane of Potatoes, she who devours them, The Black Hole, the humorless, first of her name.4 -
Soundwave✭✭✭While PvP and Pve can wear the same gear, imbalance will always occur. Complaining will never end, unless u keep proc sets out of pvp. Barring them from PvP would easier then just nerfing them and destroying them. Proc sets r awesome for Pve, they don't need a nerf.2 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The easiest way to balance the proc sets in PvP is to implement the same restrictions to them like they did with minor slayer/aegis. They only affect NPCs not Players, or they have an other proc chance against players
Example Viper: 5x Your meele attacks deal 8k poison damage against NPCs and have a 5% chance to deal 8k poison damage against players.
Example Velidreth: When you deal against an NPC you have a 20% chance to spawn 3 Spores which deal 13k disease damage
This should be applied to the following sets: Tremorscale, Viper, Widowmaker, Red Mountain, Infernal Guardian, Selene
This really is all zos needs to do, but they will most likely just do a global proc set nerf, thus affecting pve aswell.
Hope Im wrong/surprised tho.
Add to battle spirit a global 10s (or 20 or 30) proc cooldown that affects ALL procs. One goes off for any reason, 10-20-30s before another does.
ALT: Apply the cooldown to every sets final bonus in battle spirit. So the mega 20% elegant overload boost - same restriction even tho it fails to meet the key proc thing - effects shows as separate items in recap (key point)
Dont forget there are a lot more proc sets:bahara curse, trinimac, ashen grip?, etc. The sets ehere final bonus can conditionally spawn damage effects that show as separate items in recap (key point)
are numerous. If you just hit selected proc sets you are not showing proc sets bad, just picking which sets to wear, limiting options.
Of course, some not wesring tank stuff might object to targeting damage proc sets and leaving heal proc sets alone as lobbying for certain meta. So heal procs likely need the global proc cooldown gpc as well.
That and of course then do nothing to eivery other 2p/5pc set bonus that already provides significant boosts in damage because most of those are automatic and not "evil spawns of the darkness" like its obvious procs must be.
Any other changes needed to restore the previous everybody must do this meta?Edited by STEVIL on 12 November 2016 16:42Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
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This discussion has been closed.