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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
MagNB - DW or Destro
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Destro/RestroLava_Croft wrote: »8k to 11k Concealed Weapon hits.
That won't happen often and most likely never at all when fighting real PvP players.
It is possible though with lich and Julianos with stacked crit damage i usually hit around 8k concealed on light 7k on medium and 5k on heavy when I run my dual wield magblade. Against "real PVPers" like duelist yea it won't hit hard enough to warrant the high cost, but in open world 1vX it's pretty good because the damage is melee so it's hard to avoid.Edited by thankyourat on 18 October 2016 16:380 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You can state how your Concealed Weapon hits for 8k to 11k, but nobody with even the slighest clue about how to play PvP will ever be hit by your Concealed Weapon for those numbers. Now if you want to show off your damage numbers against PvE players in full Divines gear that's fine, but that's hardly something care about it in the grand scheme of things. You won't do that damage against a proper PvP player with the current state of MagNB.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »8k to 11k Concealed Weapon hits.
That won't happen often and most likely never at all when fighting real PvP players.
Most people don't know what they're doing in this game, even pvp player's. There's people who know what they're doing and people that don't. It's like saying real pvpers will never get 1vxed but people get 1vxed all the time.
Don't underestimate the amount of people that don't know how to play, more so the one's that stay in big groups 24/7.
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DPG76✭✭✭DW/Destro and situationally DW/Resto
Dot's and buffs eventually ward on backbar
spammable and hardest hitting abillities front bar (has more spell damage)0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭others like Swoard&BoardSnS and Heavy armor. It doesn't matter if you're stamina or magicka. You can't beat the meta.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thankyourat wrote: »CapuchinSeven wrote: »
You use Harness and a NB HOT?
100% crit chance is still pretty useful. Pop from stealth with a heavy attack weave, then cloak and heavy attack again. You'd be surprised how many idiots don't think to defend themselves when they can't see you right away.
You don't get the 100% crit chance on heavy destro attacks
Oh? If you mean the 100 percent critical chance utility is not applied on players then that is news to me.
If you are implying that the bonus fades before you can complete a fully charged heavy attack with a destro. Then I should comment that im 99 percent sure cloaking after the projectile is released it will proc the crit. I've tested it numerous times with both snipe and destro attacks.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Destro/Restroexeeter702 wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »CapuchinSeven wrote: »
You use Harness and a NB HOT?
100% crit chance is still pretty useful. Pop from stealth with a heavy attack weave, then cloak and heavy attack again. You'd be surprised how many idiots don't think to defend themselves when they can't see you right away.
You don't get the 100% crit chance on heavy destro attacks
Oh? If you mean the 100 percent critical chance utility is not applied on players then that is news to me.
If you are implying that the bonus fades before you can complete a fully charged heavy attack with a destro. Then I should comment that im 99 percent sure cloaking after the projectile is released it will proc the crit. I've tested it numerous times with both snipe and destro attacks.
I don't get it with my destro staff at all, my light attacks aren't even a 100% crit chance. It works with bow for whatever reason though, the only thing I don't get the 100% crit chance from is destro light and heavy attacks. Also it doesn't matter if the cloak fades because you get the crit chance on your next attack you don't have to be cloaked to get it. It's not just players it's not working on NPCs either0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thankyourat wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »CapuchinSeven wrote: »
You use Harness and a NB HOT?
100% crit chance is still pretty useful. Pop from stealth with a heavy attack weave, then cloak and heavy attack again. You'd be surprised how many idiots don't think to defend themselves when they can't see you right away.
You don't get the 100% crit chance on heavy destro attacks
Oh? If you mean the 100 percent critical chance utility is not applied on players then that is news to me.
If you are implying that the bonus fades before you can complete a fully charged heavy attack with a destro. Then I should comment that im 99 percent sure cloaking after the projectile is released it will proc the crit. I've tested it numerous times with both snipe and destro attacks.
I don't get it with my destro staff at all, my light attacks aren't even a 100% crit chance. It works with bow for whatever reason though, the only thing I don't get the 100% crit chance from is destro light and heavy attacks. Also it doesn't matter if the cloak fades because you get the crit chance on your next attack you don't have to be cloaked to get it. It's not just players it's not working on NPCs either
Well on the note of the effect buff time, there is only a small window that the crit chance applies, you can tell by the red glow on your hands. I recently saw a nice magnb pvp build posted here not too long ago, it was gank build that utilied destro staff and cloak and it seemed to work form him every time.
Edit: Found it
https://youtu.be/NY0wckExj30
Edited by exeeter702 on 18 October 2016 21:021 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dualwield/RestroLava_Croft wrote: »
You can state how your Concealed Weapon hits for 8k to 11k, but nobody with even the slighest clue about how to play PvP will ever be hit by your Concealed Weapon for those numbers. Now if you want to show off your damage numbers against PvE players in full Divines gear that's fine, but that's hardly something care about it in the grand scheme of things. You won't do that damage against a proper PvP player with the current state of MagNB.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »8k to 11k Concealed Weapon hits.
That won't happen often and most likely never at all when fighting real PvP players.
Most people don't know what they're doing in this game, even pvp player's. There's people who know what they're doing and people that don't. It's like saying real pvpers will never get 1vxed but people get 1vxed all the time.
Don't underestimate the amount of people that don't know how to play, more so the one's that stay in big groups 24/7.
If you say so genius. I've been going against what people have been saying since launch but whatever floats your boat. A "proper" player can get one shotted in pvp loooool
This is no different than people saying magplar was unplayable when I started but I proved them wrong. You have a simple way of looking at things, there's not many proper player's...you don't seem to grasp that.
Edited by CatchMeTrolling on 18 October 2016 21:430 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭Destro/RestroCatchMeTrolling wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
You can state how your Concealed Weapon hits for 8k to 11k, but nobody with even the slighest clue about how to play PvP will ever be hit by your Concealed Weapon for those numbers. Now if you want to show off your damage numbers against PvE players in full Divines gear that's fine, but that's hardly something care about it in the grand scheme of things. You won't do that damage against a proper PvP player with the current state of MagNB.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »8k to 11k Concealed Weapon hits.
That won't happen often and most likely never at all when fighting real PvP players.
Most people don't know what they're doing in this game, even pvp player's. There's people who know what they're doing and people that don't. It's like saying real pvpers will never get 1vxed but people get 1vxed all the time.
Don't underestimate the amount of people that don't know how to play, more so the one's that stay in big groups 24/7.
If you say so genius. I've been going against what people have been saying since launch but whatever floats your boat. A "proper" player can get one shotted in pvp loooool
This is no different than people saying magplar was unplayable when I started but I proved them wrong. You have a simple way of looking at things, there's not many proper player's...you don't seem to grasp that.
People get stuck in the fallacy that the only "proper" build is whatever the streamers are telling them to play. Pay no attention to the fact that many builds are viable even if they aren't played by their idol.PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Destro/RestroLava_Croft wrote: »
You can state how your Concealed Weapon hits for 8k to 11k, but nobody with even the slighest clue about how to play PvP will ever be hit by your Concealed Weapon for those numbers. Now if you want to show off your damage numbers against PvE players in full Divines gear that's fine, but that's hardly something care about it in the grand scheme of things. You won't do that damage against a proper PvP player with the current state of MagNB.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »8k to 11k Concealed Weapon hits.
That won't happen often and most likely never at all when fighting real PvP players.
Most people don't know what they're doing in this game, even pvp player's. There's people who know what they're doing and people that don't. It's like saying real pvpers will never get 1vxed but people get 1vxed all the time.
Don't underestimate the amount of people that don't know how to play, more so the one's that stay in big groups 24/7.
Try out 5 julianos, 5 lich, 3 willpower (dual wield) with the shadow mundus and 20% into cp for crit damage. It hits like a truck my only problem was all the snares made it difficult to move around, but anyone wearing light armor if they aren't prepared you can kill them with a well timed burst pretty much from full health to 0. I find that build incredibly difficult to sustain with though if I'm fighting against a heavy armor opponent. Concealed weapon cost too much and and if someone is maxed out crit resist and enough points into elemental defender your concealed weapon will hit for a little under 5k and your will really miss the added pressure of the destro staff. Melee magblade isn't dead it's just a little more situational now because of the rise of black rose, but against a medium armor wearing 7 impen your concealed will hit for a little over 6k and up to almost 8k if buffed and used after a soul harvest0 -
ScruffyWhiskers✭✭✭✭✭8k to 10k Concealed weapon? Maybe against a low CP green gear volunteer and I'll tell you what even a lot of the players that you think will be easy targets are mitigating or impened up so that you get a 4k concealed weapon. It's not even the same as it was even after IC hit and I hadn't really gotten my character up to full v16 levels. My appeal to authority: I've been playing since late beta and have a single toon that is alliance rank 35 (almost 36) and only played magicka since 1.6.thankyourat wrote: »Melee magblade isn't dead it's just a little more situational now because of the rise of black rose, but against a medium armor wearing 7 impen your concealed will hit for a little over 6k and up to almost 8k if buffed and used after a soul harvest
I'm about ready to put it on the cart. Look, crippling hardly cancels out rally + vigor. Even the newbs are tanky now. And it's not just the low damage compared to something like surprise attack. It's the fact that it is hard as hell to actually hit players with concealed lately. Part of it is shuffle, dodge roll stam monkeys (or the stam sorcs hurricane means you never can get a stun off).
Magicka melee should get the stealth damage bonus and stun that stam melee gets. That would change things. Calling concealed weapon a spell but not surprise attack is silly anyway.2 -
ScruffyWhiskers✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »
I don't get it with my destro staff at all, my light attacks aren't even a 100% crit chance. It works with bow for whatever reason though, the only thing I don't get the 100% crit chance from is destro light and heavy attacks. Also it doesn't matter if the cloak fades because you get the crit chance on your next attack you don't have to be cloaked to get it. It's not just players it's not working on NPCs either
I was testing/practicing shadowy disguise + heavy fire staff + elegant + mage light + assassins will on mammoths and giants in Wrothgar last night. Something is not quite right. I would mage light, then cloak then immediately start my heavy attack. I would wait for the attack to fire on its own and many times there was no crit. I improved my chances on the crit it seemed when I would wait for the staff wiggle and release just at that point but it was tricky and I have no way of knowing if it wasn't a normal crit since my rate is roughly 48%
So can anybody explain the correct technique to get shadowy disguise to work with a fire staff heavy attack? The was a huge damage difference between a full heavy attack fully buffed vs. an attack where i released too early.
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CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dualwield/RestroScruffyWhiskers wrote: »8k to 10k Concealed weapon? Maybe against a low CP green gear volunteer and I'll tell you what even a lot of the players that you think will be easy targets are mitigating or impened up so that you get a 4k concealed weapon. It's not even the same as it was even after IC hit and I hadn't really gotten my character up to full v16 levels. My appeal to authority: I've been playing since late beta and have a single toon that is alliance rank 35 (almost 36) and only played magicka since 1.6.thankyourat wrote: »Melee magblade isn't dead it's just a little more situational now because of the rise of black rose, but against a medium armor wearing 7 impen your concealed will hit for a little over 6k and up to almost 8k if buffed and used after a soul harvest
I'm about ready to put it on the cart. Look, crippling hardly cancels out rally + vigor. Even the newbs are tanky now. And it's not just the low damage compared to something like surprise attack. It's the fact that it is hard as hell to actually hit players with concealed lately. Part of it is shuffle, dodge roll stam monkeys (or the stam sorcs hurricane means you never can get a stun off).
Magicka melee should get the stealth damage bonus and stun that stam melee gets. That would change things. Calling concealed weapon a spell but not surprise attack is silly anyway.
No against all cp, I've done it to all lower cp is just easier to do because of the lack of resistance. You won't know until you see it for yourself, it's not going to be consistent because everyone is set up different. And I have a grand warlord, enough ap overall to be a grand overlord & mained magicka as well.
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Destro/RestroScruffyWhiskers wrote: »8k to 10k Concealed weapon? Maybe against a low CP green gear volunteer and I'll tell you what even a lot of the players that you think will be easy targets are mitigating or impened up so that you get a 4k concealed weapon. It's not even the same as it was even after IC hit and I hadn't really gotten my character up to full v16 levels. My appeal to authority: I've been playing since late beta and have a single toon that is alliance rank 35 (almost 36) and only played magicka since 1.6.thankyourat wrote: »Melee magblade isn't dead it's just a little more situational now because of the rise of black rose, but against a medium armor wearing 7 impen your concealed will hit for a little over 6k and up to almost 8k if buffed and used after a soul harvest
I'm about ready to put it on the cart. Look, crippling hardly cancels out rally + vigor. Even the newbs are tanky now. And it's not just the low damage compared to something like surprise attack. It's the fact that it is hard as hell to actually hit players with concealed lately. Part of it is shuffle, dodge roll stam monkeys (or the stam sorcs hurricane means you never can get a stun off).
Magicka melee should get the stealth damage bonus and stun that stam melee gets. That would change things. Calling concealed weapon a spell but not surprise attack is silly anyway.
Magicka does get the stun and stealth damage. Concealed can hit just as hard as surprise attack but you don't get the bonus damage from attack weaving that stamblades get. If you get about 42k max magicka and 3600 sd buffed your concealed weapon will have close to a 11k tooltip and close to a 17k soul harves tooltip and if you run the shadow mundus your crits will hit pretty hard. It does suck that everyone is a tank now though. All everyone does is block and spam CCs that's what's really hurting magblade the most. It's too many people running counter builds1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Destro/Restro
People get stuck in the fallacy that the only "proper" build is whatever the streamers are telling them to play. Pay no attention to the fact that many builds are viable even if they aren't played by their idol.
You can't get those sorts of numbers with a magic Nightblade unless you're hitting people who really don't have a clue (my normal build runs 21k resistance and that's with only two pieces of heavy armour and not including CP or buffs and still have 22k health and over 40k Magic).
The damage numbers are very optimistic and despite the boost to spell damage and Twin Blade and Blunt from using DW, Destro' staff out performs thanks to heavy and light attacks and ultimately a stamina Nightblade using almost the very same damage attacks would out burst and out regen it.thankyourat wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »CapuchinSeven wrote: »
You use Harness and a NB HOT?
100% crit chance is still pretty useful. Pop from stealth with a heavy attack weave, then cloak and heavy attack again. You'd be surprised how many idiots don't think to defend themselves when they can't see you right away.
You don't get the 100% crit chance on heavy destro attacks
Oh? If you mean the 100 percent critical chance utility is not applied on players then that is news to me.
If you are implying that the bonus fades before you can complete a fully charged heavy attack with a destro. Then I should comment that im 99 percent sure cloaking after the projectile is released it will proc the crit. I've tested it numerous times with both snipe and destro attacks.
I don't get it with my destro staff at all, my light attacks aren't even a 100% crit chance. It works with bow for whatever reason though, the only thing I don't get the 100% crit chance from is destro light and heavy attacks. Also it doesn't matter if the cloak fades because you get the crit chance on your next attack you don't have to be cloaked to get it. It's not just players it's not working on NPCs either
That's weird, I can make it work on NPCs but not on players, I noticed it a while ago.1 -
ScruffyWhiskers✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Magicka does get the stun and stealth damage. Concealed can hit just as hard as surprise attack but you don't get the bonus damage from attack weaving that stamblades get. If you get about 42k max magicka and 3600 sd buffed your concealed weapon will have close to a 11k tooltip and close to a 17k soul harves tooltip and if you run the shadow mundus your crits will hit pretty hard. It does suck that everyone is a tank now though. All everyone does is block and spam CCs that's what's really hurting magblade the most. It's too many people running counter builds
I'd love to be the victim of a Gross Conceptual Error all this time but I'm pretty sure concealed does not get the stealth crit bonus for attacks from behind. Gets the skill stun of course as per the tool tip. Or am I wrong on that?
I could swear when I was playing before 1.6 that ambush could get the stun/crit from behind. Lotus fan does not now.
With my dual wield builds I'm around your stats (with continuous attack going) but typically more like 9.5k/16k for dw/sh. I don't know how great the extra crit damage would be with shields and so much impen out there. I'd rather have the magicka regen.
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Destro/RestroScruffyWhiskers wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Magicka does get the stun and stealth damage. Concealed can hit just as hard as surprise attack but you don't get the bonus damage from attack weaving that stamblades get. If you get about 42k max magicka and 3600 sd buffed your concealed weapon will have close to a 11k tooltip and close to a 17k soul harves tooltip and if you run the shadow mundus your crits will hit pretty hard. It does suck that everyone is a tank now though. All everyone does is block and spam CCs that's what's really hurting magblade the most. It's too many people running counter builds
I'd love to be the victim of a Gross Conceptual Error all this time but I'm pretty sure concealed does not get the stealth crit bonus for attacks from behind. Gets the skill stun of course as per the tool tip. Or am I wrong on that?
I could swear when I was playing before 1.6 that ambush could get the stun/crit from behind. Lotus fan does not now.
With my dual wield builds I'm around your stats (with continuous attack going) but typically more like 9.5k/16k for dw/sh. I don't know how great the extra crit damage would be with shields and so much impen out there. I'd rather have the magicka regen.
I would just give it a try. if you have the lich set only though. if I didn't have lich I would go recovery on my dual wield build but the shadow makes a huge difference because even hitting people with impen your crits hit pretty hard I still hit 7k conceals on people in 7 impen wearing medium armor. You can never stack enough impen to counter out a nightblades crit damage your crits will always hit harder. But yea high regen shield stacking sorcs are a problem with this build but you also aren't weak against mag dks anymore. Magblade has alot of trade off it's kind of weak honestly it can't have it all like some other classes. But i like the class so I try stuff to make it work. You mean the stun from crouch? I have no idea about that one. in light armor it's impossible to sneak behind a player without being detected.Edited by thankyourat on 19 October 2016 17:020 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Destro/RestroLava_Croft wrote: »Ranged MagBlade? A *** MagSorc.
Melee MagBlade? A *** StamBlade.
Lol you can play a combination of the two with fear, concealed weapon and a destro staff. I'm hoping magblade gets buffed in the next update, cause yea it is just a weaker mag sorc, or a stamblade without the stamblade burst2 -
SRASinister✭✭✭situationallyScruffyWhiskers wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »
I don't get it with my destro staff at all, my light attacks aren't even a 100% crit chance. It works with bow for whatever reason though, the only thing I don't get the 100% crit chance from is destro light and heavy attacks. Also it doesn't matter if the cloak fades because you get the crit chance on your next attack you don't have to be cloaked to get it. It's not just players it's not working on NPCs either
I was testing/practicing shadowy disguise + heavy fire staff + elegant + mage light + assassins will on mammoths and giants in Wrothgar last night. Something is not quite right. I would mage light, then cloak then immediately start my heavy attack. I would wait for the attack to fire on its own and many times there was no crit. I improved my chances on the crit it seemed when I would wait for the staff wiggle and release just at that point but it was tricky and I have no way of knowing if it wasn't a normal crit since my rate is roughly 48%
So can anybody explain the correct technique to get shadowy disguise to work with a fire staff heavy attack? The was a huge damage difference between a full heavy attack fully buffed vs. an attack where i released too early.
I've been playing Mag Nb with destro for a while and you cloak right before the destro heavy hits to guarantee a crit. Cloaking while charging does not guarantee the crit it needs to do right before it hits. In PvP I hit someone with a 27k heavy attack which felt satisfying. I use a combo of my destro and act like a melee by slotting concealed and soul harvest on the front bar to get a melee feel while having assassin's will and swallow soul for the range with meteor on back bar.
I do love DW on a magblade but proc sets just make it too hard to be effective not to mention combined with heavyXbox One NA: Sins of Daemons0