Argonian Genocide: Who Do You Think Gave The Order?

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2016

I recently played through this bit of storyline for the fifth time. And out of curiosity I went back to all the locales and battle locations to try and hunt down some evidence as to who might have given the green light to Ruuvitars plans. Or if there was evidence that Ruuvitar had gone off the reservation once he was in Shadowfen.

I personally think there are four options here. Some more likely in my opinion than others.But for the sake of being fair Ill add a Other option to the poll so you can share your ideas.

AmberLaTerra · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

The hidden Thalmor powers the same ones you can find references too in documents in AD lands. They have always been there and always will sometimes being in power other times not. This may be a different Dominion then the Skyrim one, but the ideals and beliefs of the Thalmor are still the same even if in this time they are not the party of the high elves in power they still have a lot of pull through their spy networks.

(side note you may want to edit a spoiler warning into your title)

Isellskooma · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

I did

Abeille · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

It was a rogue general who took the people he commanded there and gave the orders.

It is what the several letters of Dominion Soldiers asking to be sent somewhere else seem to indicate, as well as some dialogue between the npcs (if you wait before attacking them). The soldiers do not seem to know why they are there at all, and are being killed/left to die by their superiors. There is also a quest in Reaper's March that talks about the "Dominion's" (aka rogue general on his own accord) presence in Shadowfen. You investigate it with Cariel. It is the work of a traitor.

Milvan · September 2016

Queen Aryenn

Hmmmm...

I would love to see the evidences that brought you up for these for suspects. Because all I can remember is (I didn't really payed much attention to it) that the Dominion was behind everything.

I would say that Ayrenn and her Talmor council planned it up but Ruuvitar was the one that executed it.

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2016

I personally dont believe Queen Aryenn would give the order for such an attack. Its not the honorable or straight forward play I would expect from her. Though I could be completely off with this and Aryenn could have a truely dark side of her we have yet to see. I do think she might have seen the overview plans for the attack that could of have been vague enough for her to give her rubber stamp of approval without ever knowing the full extent of Ruuvitars plans.

The random General or Battlereeve giving the orders feels a bit cheap to me. But I could see it being used to buck any blame from Aryenn. But this is probably the least likely explanation.

High Kinlady Estre/Naemon and the Veiled Heritance seem plausible. They were trusted members of Aryenns Court and likely had access to battle plans and at times could have made decisions on Aryenns behalf. And Ruuvitar and his troops would have been launched around the time if not right before the events in Vulkhel Guard.

Ruuvitar going off the reservation is also a plausible scenario but I feel again its kind of cheap. It bucks the blame from the Aldmeri Dominion and leaves it purely on Ruuvitars shoulders. Sure the majority of the Ebonheart Pact wont care if it was all Ruuvitars plan or Aryenn. She sent him so shes responsible for him.

Abeille · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Ruuvitar going off the reservation is also a plausible scenario but I feel again its kind of cheap. It bucks the blame from the Aldmeri Dominion and leaves it purely on Ruuvitars shoulders. Sure the majority of the Ebonheart Pact wont care if it was all Ruuvitars plan or Aryenn. She sent him so shes responsible for him.

It is what the documents/npc dialogues seem to indicate, though. And by Cariel's quest in Reaper's March, it actually doesn't seem that there were even supposed to be Dominion Troops in Shadowfen at all - meaning it is possible Ayrenn didn't even send him to begin with.

Which, taking into consideration the beliefs regarding the Knahaten Flu origins and the fact that it killed so many Khajiit not long ago, makes sense. It makes a lot of sense that Ayrenn wouldn't risk sending her troops to Black Marsh so soon after that happened.

ADarklore · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Interestingly enough, during these quests you find a document where an AD soldier is questioning their orders on this mission, which tells me that something is amiss. Having played AD exclusively, I can tell you that Queen Ayrenn would NEVER have agreed to such a plan... she was against this type of activity from the start. Anyone who wants a peaceful world where ALL people co-exist would not green-light a plan to exterminate a species, especially since the Argonians were not exactly willing participants in the DC. Some Argonians participated because it meant freedom of sorts, but some Argonians fled to get away from the DC and were welcomed to settle in AD. So clearly the AD proper doesn't have anything against Argonians, but those in charge of the Ruuvitar quest line certainly do. I simply think Ruuvitar took it upon himself to undertake this mission, perhaps assisted by Veiled Heritance traitors.

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

Interestingly enough, during these quests you find a document where an AD soldier is questioning their orders on this mission, which tells me that something is amiss. Having played AD exclusively, I can tell you that Queen Ayrenn would NEVER have agreed to such a plan... she was against this type of activity from the start. Anyone who wants a peaceful world where ALL people co-exist would not green-light a plan to exterminate a species, especially since the Argonians were not exactly willing participants in the DC. Some Argonians participated because it meant freedom of sorts, but some Argonians fled to get away from the DC and were welcomed to settle in AD. So clearly the AD proper doesn't have anything against Argonians, but those in charge of the Ruuvitar quest line certainly do. I simply think Ruuvitar took it upon himself to undertake this mission, perhaps assisted by Veiled Heritance traitors.

This is actually what I believe. That the Veiled Heritance has a hand in this. For what reason Im not sure. But their actions on Auridon and in Valenwood lead me to believe Ruuvitars actions line up very nicely with Veiled Heritance tactics. I can see why they would go after the Argonians as it would weaken the Ebonheart Pact, with the whole skin-wearing thing. If their plans had worked its possible the blame for the Argonian massacre would fall on the shoulders of the Nords and Dunmer and the EP would come falling apart.

UrQuan · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

I've got a theory that agents of the Worm Cult worked their way into the militaries of all 3 alliances, and then made sure that they were assigned to forces sent to enemy territory. Their true goal wouldn't be to win the war for their alliance - it would be to commit atrocities in order to keep the alliances at each others throats so that they wouldn't join forces to stop the planemeld. Their superiors back in their home alliances would mostly be kept in the dark about their methods.

This would explain why so many of the invasion schemes you see (regardless of which alliance's forces are invading) are so evil, and it would also explain why you so often see necromancy being used in these invasion forces, despite the fact that it's supposed to be illegal.

It would also help to explain why Molag Bal was so interested in having Mannimarco as his lieutenant - so that Mannimarco's Worm Cult could sow hatred between the alliances. And also the other stuff the members of the Worm Cult do to help bring about the planemeld, of course.

Ruuvitar, then, would be a high-ranked agent of the Worm Cult, ultimately answerable to Molag Bal, through Mannimarco.

That's my theory anyway.

Abeille · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

@ADarklore you mean EP, but yes, I forgot about the Argonian refugees in Grahtwood.

I think they got there before the alliances were formed, but still, yes, the Dominion can let them stay (if you tell the Thalmor the Argonians are not Pact spies and the Dominion has nothing to fear from them).

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Interestingly enough, during these quests you find a document where an AD soldier is questioning their orders on this mission, which tells me that something is amiss. Having played AD exclusively, I can tell you that Queen Ayrenn would NEVER have agreed to such a plan... she was against this type of activity from the start. Anyone who wants a peaceful world where ALL people co-exist would not green-light a plan to exterminate a species, especially since the Argonians were not exactly willing participants in the DC. Some Argonians participated because it meant freedom of sorts, but some Argonians fled to get away from the DC and were welcomed to settle in AD. So clearly the AD proper doesn't have anything against Argonians, but those in charge of the Ruuvitar quest line certainly do. I simply think Ruuvitar took it upon himself to undertake this mission, perhaps assisted by Veiled Heritance traitors.

This is actually what I believe. That the Veiled Heritance has a hand in this. For what reason Im not sure. But their actions on Auridon and in Valenwood lead me to believe Ruuvitars actions line up very nicely with Veiled Heritance tactics. I can see why they would go after the Argonians as it would weaken the Ebonheart Pact, with the whole skin-wearing thing. If their plans had worked its possible the blame for the Argonian massacre would fall on the shoulders of the Nords and Dunmer and the EP would come falling apart.

I also forgot about the whole Daedric magic they use during some quests in Shadowfen. It is forbidden in the Dominion, with only the Mages Guild having special permission to use it (as per a quest in Skywatch, if I remember it correctly).

But Estre went to Mehrunes Dagon. The Veiled Heritance obviously doesn't care.

ADarklore · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Interestingly enough, during these quests you find a document where an AD soldier is questioning their orders on this mission, which tells me that something is amiss. Having played AD exclusively, I can tell you that Queen Ayrenn would NEVER have agreed to such a plan... she was against this type of activity from the start. Anyone who wants a peaceful world where ALL people co-exist would not green-light a plan to exterminate a species, especially since the Argonians were not exactly willing participants in the DC. Some Argonians participated because it meant freedom of sorts, but some Argonians fled to get away from the DC and were welcomed to settle in AD. So clearly the AD proper doesn't have anything against Argonians, but those in charge of the Ruuvitar quest line certainly do. I simply think Ruuvitar took it upon himself to undertake this mission, perhaps assisted by Veiled Heritance traitors.

This is actually what I believe. That the Veiled Heritance has a hand in this. For what reason Im not sure. But their actions on Auridon and in Valenwood lead me to believe Ruuvitars actions line up very nicely with Veiled Heritance tactics. I can see why they would go after the Argonians as it would weaken the Ebonheart Pact, with the whole skin-wearing thing. If their plans had worked its possible the blame for the Argonian massacre would fall on the shoulders of the Nords and Dunmer and the EP would come falling apart.

OR, they could be using it as a means of discrediting Queen Ayrenn, making it appear like she's lying about wanting to bring all the people of Tamriel together. It seems to work, because players that start in the DC alliance tend to already hate the AD before they get there, thanks in part to the entire Ruuvitar questline.

BlackEar · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

No clue.

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Interestingly enough, during these quests you find a document where an AD soldier is questioning their orders on this mission, which tells me that something is amiss. Having played AD exclusively, I can tell you that Queen Ayrenn would NEVER have agreed to such a plan... she was against this type of activity from the start. Anyone who wants a peaceful world where ALL people co-exist would not green-light a plan to exterminate a species, especially since the Argonians were not exactly willing participants in the DC. Some Argonians participated because it meant freedom of sorts, but some Argonians fled to get away from the DC and were welcomed to settle in AD. So clearly the AD proper doesn't have anything against Argonians, but those in charge of the Ruuvitar quest line certainly do. I simply think Ruuvitar took it upon himself to undertake this mission, perhaps assisted by Veiled Heritance traitors.

This is actually what I believe. That the Veiled Heritance has a hand in this. For what reason Im not sure. But their actions on Auridon and in Valenwood lead me to believe Ruuvitars actions line up very nicely with Veiled Heritance tactics. I can see why they would go after the Argonians as it would weaken the Ebonheart Pact, with the whole skin-wearing thing. If their plans had worked its possible the blame for the Argonian massacre would fall on the shoulders of the Nords and Dunmer and the EP would come falling apart.

OR, they could be using it as a means of discrediting Queen Ayrenn, making it appear like she's lying about wanting to bring all the people of Tamriel together. It seems to work, because players that start in the DC alliance tend to already hate the AD before they get there, thanks in part to the entire Ruuvitar questline.

Thats very possible. The Veiled Heritance goal ultimately was to put Naemon and Estre back in power.

Abeille · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

ADarklore wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Interestingly enough, during these quests you find a document where an AD soldier is questioning their orders on this mission, which tells me that something is amiss. Having played AD exclusively, I can tell you that Queen Ayrenn would NEVER have agreed to such a plan... she was against this type of activity from the start. Anyone who wants a peaceful world where ALL people co-exist would not green-light a plan to exterminate a species, especially since the Argonians were not exactly willing participants in the DC. Some Argonians participated because it meant freedom of sorts, but some Argonians fled to get away from the DC and were welcomed to settle in AD. So clearly the AD proper doesn't have anything against Argonians, but those in charge of the Ruuvitar quest line certainly do. I simply think Ruuvitar took it upon himself to undertake this mission, perhaps assisted by Veiled Heritance traitors.

This is actually what I believe. That the Veiled Heritance has a hand in this. For what reason Im not sure. But their actions on Auridon and in Valenwood lead me to believe Ruuvitars actions line up very nicely with Veiled Heritance tactics. I can see why they would go after the Argonians as it would weaken the Ebonheart Pact, with the whole skin-wearing thing. If their plans had worked its possible the blame for the Argonian massacre would fall on the shoulders of the Nords and Dunmer and the EP would come falling apart.

OR, they could be using it as a means of discrediting Queen Ayrenn, making it appear like she's lying about wanting to bring all the people of Tamriel together. It seems to work, because players that start in the DC alliance tend to already hate the AD before they get there, thanks in part to the entire Ruuvitar questline.

That makes a lot of sense.
Every time this discussion is brought up, the conclusion is usually about the same: The circumstances are very suspicious, and Ayrenn most likely had nothing to do with it.
But there isn't a direct answer in game, only clues here and there. I really wish there was a direct answer, though. For closure.

dodgehopper_ESO · September 2016

High Kinlady Estre

I marked Estre because of her Veiled Heritance (which have ties to Mehrunes Dagon) but it could also very well be Worm infiltrators. Its been some time since I did this mission. As Estre was finally hauled off to Coldharbor its quite possible an reasonable to assume she was also in league with Molag Bal. Generally speaking it is these types of atrocities done on behalf of the 3 factions by Worms that helped to incite the rage that fuels the war.

susmitds · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Hint: It's a rogue Khajiit general, who had a massive grudge against Argonians.

Integral1900 · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Definite spoiler warning

Judging by documents you find in that awesome little village in reapers march and especially the comments you overhear, the most likely scenario is that like most of the zones a slender tendril of the worm cult manoeuvred yet another nut case into a position where he could do an enormous amount of damage, not that the cult would have cared what happened to ruvitar, like all the base game zone villains he was basically just part of the vast smoke screen to allow the dark anchors to do their work. Its like the three banners war, molag bal himself boasts about how he stoked the flames, without all this chaos the planemeld would have been doomed from the start, instead of small bands of heroes and guilds trying to destroy them it would have been every soldier in Tamriel

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I marked Estre because of her Veiled Heritance (which have ties to Mehrunes Dagon) but it could also very well be Worm infiltrators. Its been some time since I did this mission. As Estre was finally hauled off to Coldharbor its quite possible an reasonable to assume she was also in league with Molag Bal. Generally speaking it is these types of atrocities done on behalf of the 3 factions by Worms that helped to incite the rage that fuels the war.

Actually she was in league with Molag Bal. If I remember correctly from the AD storyline. She approaches Mehrunes Dagon first but for some reason, I cant remember the details right now, turns to Molag Bal. I believe she had failed Mehrunes Dagon and was looking to fall back on Molag to sort of save her from her commitment to Mehrunes.

Daraugh · September 2016

Queen Aryenn

*****Spoilers abound!****

Something of this magnitude has to be from very high up. An artifact that would decimate a third of the Ebonheart Pact's forces is tremendous power. If it had been anyone lesser than the queen, why wouldn't we hear any tale of the individual? The only reason I can come up with is that the horror is so great, no one would take openly take responsibility for it. Ruuvitar and the Bosmer commander are insane enough they don't care about being known, but there's no evidence that they are acting on their own. Someone who wishes to remain unknown used their vicious insanity as a weapon. There's no evidence to support Ruuvitar or any battlereeve did anything off the radar. No journal, no letter or note. I've done this quest six times now and believe me, I've scoured the place looking for evidence! The npc chatter runs the gamut from "I don't want to be here, I would like to transfer out" indicating that there's a real chain of command securely in place, to "wait until the lizards get theirs, then we'll be out of this swamp". The chatter indicates that this was not a voluntary mission. These are real soldiers in the queen's army, no castoffs or rebels.The Khajiit who defects is further proof of this.

With the guaranteed potential to end a "beast race" from Tamriel, it sounds like the kind of cleansing that Altmer are known for. It's also a foreshadowing of the Void Nights in which the Thalmor "brought back the moons with great magics". The moons vanishing would end the Khajiiti race as they are dependent on the moons for their forms. If the Thalmor can magick the moons back into being, it's probable that they were responsible for the disappearance and the threat of genocide their absence would cause. They forced the Khajiit to be loyal to them, out of fear.

Now why didn't this show up when Ayrenn went into the Orrery? Well, it's an ancient Alyied device that hasn't been touched in millennia, powered by the Mantle of Rajhin, the trickster god. A device that was built by a race known for torture and slavery is supposed to be the final and most important support for Ayrenn. As it is such an important function, the ratification of a new and controversial queen, why are so many people barred from attending? Daraneth, the mage running the Orrery, has just dealt with Sheogorath in Southpoint. Sheogorath was supposedly summoned by a mayor, who was angry that he didn't get the respect he felt he deserved from the citizens. Is he a mirror of Ayrenn? Daraneth, however, handles the situation with ease. She knows precisely what to do. Perhaps she was whispering in the mayor's ear, goading him to make the deal with the Prince...? The situation caused chaos and fear, all that was allayed by Daraneth, shows her tremendous control and power. Daraneth was supposedly possessed, but we don't know if it was voluntary or not. Did she allow Sheo to posses her in order to learn new alteration magic? This is the person running the Orrery.

Why then did Naemon become an ogrim? Was he turned into an ogrim by the Orrery or by Daraneth? The scouts in Southpoint turned into bears and we only have Daraneth's word that it wasn't done by her. She also says "Hmm? Oh, I suppose I can reverse the effects of the mayor's magic. After many, many years of honing my craft, this should be a simple matter.
But if we're hunting bears, I'll need you to be the bait." It feels like a foreshadowing of Naemon coming out of the Orrery. Maybe Daraneth altered Naemon's appearance to that of an ogrim? Revealing the person within? Ayrenn knows that the Hero will be there and will have no trouble in killing Naemon-ogrim.

King Camoran benefits by having Elden Root as the capital city, cements his own power by supporting Ayrenn's and Daraneth grows in prestige. Naemon, on his own, would have been an excellent ruler. He knew it, Ayrenn knew it. She knew the Altmer preferred Naemon to her and she knew that she would need to kill him if she was to be accepted. Her hands needed to stay clean and so they did. Clean hands for Naemon, clean hands for the Argonian hatchlings. No wonder Razum-dar begged for death in the March. He wanted an escape and he probably knew too much. He would have been horrified when he found out her true self within and miserable for his role in her ascension to the throne.

Abeille · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I marked Estre because of her Veiled Heritance (which have ties to Mehrunes Dagon) but it could also very well be Worm infiltrators. Its been some time since I did this mission. As Estre was finally hauled off to Coldharbor its quite possible an reasonable to assume she was also in league with Molag Bal. Generally speaking it is these types of atrocities done on behalf of the 3 factions by Worms that helped to incite the rage that fuels the war.

Actually she was in league with Molag Bal. If I remember correctly from the AD storyline. She approaches Mehrunes Dagon first but for some reason, I cant remember the details right now, turns to Molag Bal. I believe she had failed Mehrunes Dagon and was looking to fall back on Molag to sort of save her from her commitment to Mehrunes.

She was pen pals with Mannimarco, and he demanded her to turn away from Mehrunes Dagon and to submit to Molag Bal, or "there will be consequences".

She seem to have died loyal to Mehrunes Dagon, though, so I imagine she ended up in Coldharbor because of something Mannimarco did.

Also, @Daraugh , there is plenty of evidence that no, those were not under Ayrenn's command. The evidence just wasn't all in Shadowfen - they were in Reaper's March too, like other people said here already.

But I like your theory regarding the Orrery. Not because I think Ayrenn was hiding something, I don't, but because I did the Dominion quests 10 times and I still don't feel Naemon deserved his fate.

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I marked Estre because of her Veiled Heritance (which have ties to Mehrunes Dagon) but it could also very well be Worm infiltrators. Its been some time since I did this mission. As Estre was finally hauled off to Coldharbor its quite possible an reasonable to assume she was also in league with Molag Bal. Generally speaking it is these types of atrocities done on behalf of the 3 factions by Worms that helped to incite the rage that fuels the war.

Actually she was in league with Molag Bal. If I remember correctly from the AD storyline. She approaches Mehrunes Dagon first but for some reason, I cant remember the details right now, turns to Molag Bal. I believe she had failed Mehrunes Dagon and was looking to fall back on Molag to sort of save her from her commitment to Mehrunes.

She was pen pals with Mannimarco, and he demanded her to turn away from Mehrunes Dagon and to submit to Molag Bal, or "there will be consequences".

She seem to have died loyal to Mehrunes Dagon, though, so I imagine she ended up in Coldharbor because of something Mannimarco did.

Also, @Daraugh , there is plenty of evidence that no, those were not under Ayrenn's command. The evidence just wasn't all in Shadowfen - they were in Reaper's March too, like other people said here already.

But I like your theory regarding the Orrery. Not because I think Ayrenn was hiding something, I don't, but because I did the Dominion quests 10 times and I still don't feel Naemon deserved his fate.

Maybe Im misremembering the quest. But there was this whole evil ceremony going on in the caves and there were EP troops outside on the beach. And all I kept thinking was "How much do these EP soldiers know about Estre and the Molag Bal deal going on inside?"

Elmour0Fudd · September 2016

having only recently gone through the story and reading some good stuff here to,
Would think it actually depends on you own choices as you move through the story, item's that you have to abandon the quest to reset.
As all the above choices in the pole are valid and could be correct, depending on who you help and who you kill lol

Abeille · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I marked Estre because of her Veiled Heritance (which have ties to Mehrunes Dagon) but it could also very well be Worm infiltrators. Its been some time since I did this mission. As Estre was finally hauled off to Coldharbor its quite possible an reasonable to assume she was also in league with Molag Bal. Generally speaking it is these types of atrocities done on behalf of the 3 factions by Worms that helped to incite the rage that fuels the war.

Actually she was in league with Molag Bal. If I remember correctly from the AD storyline. She approaches Mehrunes Dagon first but for some reason, I cant remember the details right now, turns to Molag Bal. I believe she had failed Mehrunes Dagon and was looking to fall back on Molag to sort of save her from her commitment to Mehrunes.

She was pen pals with Mannimarco, and he demanded her to turn away from Mehrunes Dagon and to submit to Molag Bal, or "there will be consequences".

She seem to have died loyal to Mehrunes Dagon, though, so I imagine she ended up in Coldharbor because of something Mannimarco did.

Also, @Daraugh , there is plenty of evidence that no, those were not under Ayrenn's command. The evidence just wasn't all in Shadowfen - they were in Reaper's March too, like other people said here already.

But I like your theory regarding the Orrery. Not because I think Ayrenn was hiding something, I don't, but because I did the Dominion quests 10 times and I still don't feel Naemon deserved his fate.

Maybe Im misremembering the quest. But there was this whole evil ceremony going on in the caves and there were EP troops outside on the beach. And all I kept thinking was "How much do these EP soldiers know about Estre and the Molag Bal deal going on inside?"

Well, there is a quest regarding an alliance between the Ebonheart Pact and the Veiled Heritance. Is that the one you are talking about?

Because if that's the case, I imagine they have no idea of Estre's connections to Mannimarco. Both groups just wanted Ayrenn dead and that's it, most likely.

GorraShatan · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

Just weak writing. It seems all 3 factions keep all their commanders who have basic human decency at home, and send a bunch of psychopaths to foreign lands.

Alternatively, Almalexia is mucking around behind the scenes, as these attacks help bind the Argonians into their alliance.

MasterSpatula · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

I think the truth is that field commanders have a lot of autonomy in the Three Banners War. I'm sure Ruuvitar had authorization from some general, maybe a general of the old guard who isn't exactly loyal to Ayrenn's inclusive ideals but is loyal to the idea of Aldmeric control of Tamriel. In the end, results matter, especially when you're in literal backwater where misdeeds can easily be covered up.

Similarly, I really doubt Emeric is savvy to all the necromancers in his forces,

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I marked Estre because of her Veiled Heritance (which have ties to Mehrunes Dagon) but it could also very well be Worm infiltrators. Its been some time since I did this mission. As Estre was finally hauled off to Coldharbor its quite possible an reasonable to assume she was also in league with Molag Bal. Generally speaking it is these types of atrocities done on behalf of the 3 factions by Worms that helped to incite the rage that fuels the war.

Actually she was in league with Molag Bal. If I remember correctly from the AD storyline. She approaches Mehrunes Dagon first but for some reason, I cant remember the details right now, turns to Molag Bal. I believe she had failed Mehrunes Dagon and was looking to fall back on Molag to sort of save her from her commitment to Mehrunes.

She was pen pals with Mannimarco, and he demanded her to turn away from Mehrunes Dagon and to submit to Molag Bal, or "there will be consequences".

She seem to have died loyal to Mehrunes Dagon, though, so I imagine she ended up in Coldharbor because of something Mannimarco did.

Also, @Daraugh , there is plenty of evidence that no, those were not under Ayrenn's command. The evidence just wasn't all in Shadowfen - they were in Reaper's March too, like other people said here already.

But I like your theory regarding the Orrery. Not because I think Ayrenn was hiding something, I don't, but because I did the Dominion quests 10 times and I still don't feel Naemon deserved his fate.

Maybe Im misremembering the quest. But there was this whole evil ceremony going on in the caves and there were EP troops outside on the beach. And all I kept thinking was "How much do these EP soldiers know about Estre and the Molag Bal deal going on inside?"

Well, there is a quest regarding an alliance between the Ebonheart Pact and the Veiled Heritance. Is that the one you are talking about?

Because if that's the case, I imagine they have no idea of Estre's connections to Mannimarco. Both groups just wanted Ayrenn dead and that's it, most likely.

Thats the one Im talking about, but Im saying that thats where I got the impression that she had infact made a deal with Molag Bal.

I can remember thinking "Estre is getting really desperate at this point. Shes jumped from Mehrunes to Molag Bal."

UrQuan · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

GorraShatan wrote: »

It seems all 3 factions keep all their commanders who have basic human decency at home, and send a bunch of psychopaths to foreign lands.

Which is exactly the basis of my theory...

Abeille · September 2016

Other: Explain in comments.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Similarly, I really doubt Emeric is savvy to all the necromancers in his forces,

That's a pretty good point to bring up.

GorraShatan wrote: »

Alternatively, Almalexia is mucking around behind the scenes, as these attacks help bind the Argonians into their alliance.

Hm...
Half of the Ebonheart Pact story line seems to be all about making you hate the other alliances as much as possible.
The Pact is the most unlikely of the three alliances - at least Bretons and Redguards/Altmer and Bosmer are historical allies -, and to quote Sheogorath, "you hate each other! Remember?". Well, maybe they don't remember, not while they are busy hating the other two alliances.
That's a huuuuuuge stretch, but it would be an interesting development. Showing signs of her psychotic madness that will come in a few centuries, maybe?

Mashille · September 2016

I'm don't fully know, but I'm pretty sure this guy has something to do with it:

Daraugh · September 2016

Queen Aryenn

@Abeille can you link or quote any evidence?

The Elder Scrolls Online

Argonian Genocide: Who Do You Think Gave The Order?

Argonian Genocide: Who Do You Think Gave The Order? 67 votes