ZOS get rid of shuffle altogether

Avenias · August 2016

Idc if u guys nerf it to the ground or change its properties entirely, its a nuisance that should not have existed in the first place. Get rid of it.

Kronuxx · August 2016

I will have to agree that shuffle makes no sense in this game. We already have a dodge mechanic in this game called...wait for it....Dodge! Yes, that's right we can dodge attacks completely with a 100% chance to dodge if we dodge at the right time. Adding a separate skill that allows one to dodge separate of the action of actually dodging, seems just a wee bit redundant.

ScottK1994 · August 2016

Elude user here.

I'm personally of the opinion that dodge should be mostly a tanking thing, gear giving stats to increase it slightly.

That way for PvP they can reduce the amount that the skill Elude/shuffle dodges, without removing it as a utility completely

ScottK1994 · August 2016

Kronuxx wrote: »

I will have to agree that shuffle makes no sense in this game. We already have a dodge mechanic in this game called...wait for it....Dodge! Yes, that's right we can dodge attacks completely with a 100% chance to dodge if we dodge at the right time. Adding a separate skill that allows one to dodge separate of the action of actually dodging, seems just a wee bit redundant.

Hm kind of, but the dodge in this sense of the skill is implied by a direct hit being dodged?
In a lot of other competitive MMOs there is a light/medium armour tree with a skill that increases dodge.

In this game the problem is that A)it can be up all the time b) when the guy doesn't have the dodge up he is too squishy

ScottK1994 · August 2016

Put both those issues together it seems like they need to change medium armour so that instead of a dodge skill they should have 20% dodge rating. They can then have a skill which halfs sprinting/rolling cost then boom the utility is equaled in both PvP and and PvE

Molag_Crow · August 2016

I'm surprised to see a topic like this, because I have taken a little break from ESO, haven't really been playing it for a few weeks now, well at least until the new DLC comes to console... and the main reason is because I spend most of my time in Cyrodiil, and I'm pretty much bored of going against stamina classes who use Shuffle. RNG dodge (supposedly 20%) isn't fun, it doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if it reduced incoming damage for a small time, not RNG dodge when (like you said) we already have dodge roll.

Actually_Goku · August 2016

Or maybe make the 20% dodge chance "additive rather than multiplicative, as was intended originally"

Gg

ScottK1994 · August 2016

I still think the main problem is that it's always on, the very essense of the skill reeks of emergency use. But I play a stamdk, even in PvE I will get fcked up if I spend even two seconds without using the skill.

GrumpyDuckling · August 2016

Removing it from the game hurts PVE tanks, so I can't advocate for complete removal. But I agree that in PVP it doesn't make sense when there is already a roll dodge.

Avenias · August 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Or maybe make the 20% dodge chance "additive rather than multiplicative, as was intended originally"

Gg

Nope, just get rid of it.

Avenias · August 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

I'm surprised to see a topic like this, because I have taken a little break from ESO, haven't really been playing it for a few weeks now, well at least until the new DLC comes to console... and the main reason is because I spend most of my time in Cyrodiil, and I'm pretty much bored of going against stamina classes who use Shuffle. RNG dodge (supposedly 20%) isn't fun, it doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if it reduced incoming damage for a small time, not RNG dodge when (like you said) we already have dodge roll.

Its a broken skill that is abused like hell.

Avenias · August 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Removing it from the game hurts PVE tanks, so I can't advocate for complete removal. But I agree that in PVP it doesn't make sense when there is already a roll dodge.

They cant make two application of the same skill. Since they cant fix it, just get rid of it.

ScottK1994 · August 2016

Avenias wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

I'm surprised to see a topic like this, because I have taken a little break from ESO, haven't really been playing it for a few weeks now, well at least until the new DLC comes to console... and the main reason is because I spend most of my time in Cyrodiil, and I'm pretty much bored of going against stamina classes who use Shuffle. RNG dodge (supposedly 20%) isn't fun, it doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if it reduced incoming damage for a small time, not RNG dodge when (like you said) we already have dodge roll.

Its a broken skill that is abused like hell.

Well not really abused, there's no downtime so why would you not have it up when you have the skill on your bar? It would inefficient.
You guys obviously dont use the skill for your survivability so you don't understand that if you're built medium armour with stamina; you are weak without dodge

If it did get removed then it would have to mean an even further increase in our damage

BruhItsOver9000 · August 2016

We also need to get rid of shields.

Jk

I agree.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2016

I would like to see it only dodge the attack that triggers it. Not everything in a given window.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

As I thought. OP is just another person complaining about RNG. I'd hate to see him PvP in Runescape Classic where everything is pretty much governed by RNG.

For those that do not understand what I mean RNG and Luck go hand in hand in game mechanics so basically OP is unlucky and blaming something based on luck instead of RNG like every insane player should. Unless what they are really complaining about is how Shuffle deals with Snares which is just sad...

TL;DR? This thread is just another RNG QQ thread.

ScottK1994 · August 2016

If anything in PvP it should have a cool down so it can only be used once every minute or something

In PvE my class definitely needs it and would be a clunky mess without it

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As I thought. OP is just another person complaining about RNG. I'd hate to see him PvP in Runescape Classic where everything is pretty much governed by RNG.

For those that do not understand what I mean RNG and Luck go hand in hand in game mechanics so basically OP is unlucky and blaming something based on luck instead of RNG like every insane player should. Unless what they are really complaining about is how Shuffle deals with Snares which is just sad...

TL;DR? This thread is just another RNG QQ thread.

the pvp crowd does like to pat itself on the back about how skilled they are. random luck doesn't really sound much like skillful game play.

TrinityBreaker · August 2016

@OP Lol nah.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As I thought. OP is just another person complaining about RNG. I'd hate to see him PvP in Runescape Classic where everything is pretty much governed by RNG.

For those that do not understand what I mean RNG and Luck go hand in hand in game mechanics so basically OP is unlucky and blaming something based on luck instead of RNG like every insane player should. Unless what they are really complaining about is how Shuffle deals with Snares which is just sad...

TL;DR? This thread is just another RNG QQ thread.

the pvp crowd does like to pat itself on the back about how skilled they are. random luck doesn't really sound much like skillful game play.

Know what's crazy though? There is SO much more RNG involved in PvP from the various sets people run and THIS is the only one people complain about. You don't see people complaining if a Dwemer Sphere happens to heal someone because it rolled Health return.

Vaoh · August 2016

Shuffle has always been known to be a broken skill.

• 20% chance to dodge attacks? Sure it is.... sure lol....
• Dodges DoT ticks, weakening DoTs on builds running Major Evasion by a large amount.
• Shuffle (the morph 99% of players choose) grants 0.5 seconds of Snare/Immobilization immunity per piece of Medium Armor worn. That's 3.5 seconds which is insane.

The skill simply needs to be reworked. I have a feeling Shuffle will never get nerfed though. Too many complaints from the terrible players would roll in. They'd say it's totally balanced like Malubeth and they need to use it to be competitive

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

Vaoh wrote: »

• 20% chance to dodge attacks? Sure it is.... sure lol....

Yet no one blames Major Evasion in general, just Shuffle...

And the funny thing is it really feels like 20% to me, be it Evasion, Blur, or Hist Bark.

Lysette · August 2016

These permanent changes need to stop - live with what you got. I am really tired to see the game changing every few weeks - this really has to stop. You all know, that ZOS breaks things, whenever they change something - give them a chance to get something right and then never change it again or the game will always stay broken in one way or the other.

Sharee · August 2016

The damage output this game allows is already insane. Removing shuffle would just increase it by another 20%.

I am not against removing shuffle, but only after the whole PvP is thoroughly rebalanced to account for it.

Avenias · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

These permanent changes need to stop - live with what you got. I am really tired to see the game changing every few weeks - this really has to stop. You all know, that ZOS breaks things, whenever they change something - give them a chance to get something right and then never change it again or the game will always stay broken in one way or the other.

They cant fix it.

Lysette · August 2016

Avenias wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

These permanent changes need to stop - live with what you got. I am really tired to see the game changing every few weeks - this really has to stop. You all know, that ZOS breaks things, whenever they change something - give them a chance to get something right and then never change it again or the game will always stay broken in one way or the other.

They cant fix it.

With permanent changes nothing will get better - they fix one thing and mess up another - there has to be a phase where nothing is changed and problems get fixed - in a permanent changing situation it is hard to fix anything.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Removing it from the game hurts PVE tanks, so I can't advocate for complete removal. But I agree that in PVP it doesn't make sense when there is already a roll dodge.

@GrumpyDuckling Okay..? Let me twist your words so you can have a clear outlook on what you just said doesn't make any sense either.

"But I agree that in PVE it doesn't make sense when there is already a roll dodge too!".
Bolded the word in case you miss it

Necrelios · August 2016

The only problem with shuffle is that like others have stated, being RNG dependent, there is no counter to it like most games have (by putting skill points into accuracy or precision or whatever you want to call it). Now, what if they had a skill that gave you a chance to randomly counter or negate another players shuffle whenever they successfully dodge an attack, allowing you to hit them? If we're doing things by RNG, then that would make sense as a possible solution.

Lysette · August 2016

I don't know where you see a problem with this at all - in average every 5th attack on him will be auto-dodged and not hit him, that is like a resistance passive against damage, nothing more - there is no need to change anything. And it is special in comparison to other resistances, in that it is not a reduction of damage, but a total avoidance if successful. Which is good as well. There does not need to be a counter to it - it works like magical restance of a Breton in Skyrim basically, just against any damage. In 4 out of 5 cases it will not help him at all, he will be hit with full force - just in 1 out of 5 he will in average be able to avoid being hit.

dotlife · August 2016

I dont know, im just gonna..

thankyourat · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

I don't know where you see a problem with this at all - in average every 5th attack on him will be auto-dodged and not hit him, that is like a resistance passive against damage, nothing more - there is no need to change anything. And it is special in comparison to other resistances, in that it is not a reduction of damage, but a total avoidance if successful. Which is good as well. There does not need to be a counter to it - it works like magical restance of a Breton in Skyrim basically, just against any damage. In 4 out of 5 cases it will not help him at all, he will be hit with full force - just in 1 out of 5 he will in average be able to avoid being hit.

But in PvP that one hit could be to much. I think shuffle is cheesy and a little op, but I'm fine with it as long as they can't dodge when they are CC'd. You can't do anything else while CC'd you shouldn't be able to dodge either.