3 Sad PVP Truths (and Happy Solutions for the Future)

GrumpyDuckling · June 2016

Apart from the saddest PVP Truth of them all (that lag/performance is awful), here are 3 other sad PVP Truths and solutions that create happier alternatives for improved gameplay.

1) Buff-bar swapping is a "must."
Current PVP game mechanics discourage unique weapon combinations and diverse combat, and instead encourage us to use one weapon/skill bar as a buff bar (or "slave" bar) to pump up our character's damage and defense. Now of course no one is forcing us to utilize a buff bar, but we are severely hampering our effectiveness if we don't. For example, using just 4 out-of-combat skills (Mirage, Immovable, Rally, and Relentless Focus) on my back bar and activating them will carry the following buffs over to my damage bar:

- 20% evade chance
- minor resolve
- minor ward
- major resolve
- major ward
- 5 second immunity to knockdown/disable
- major brutality
- heal over time
- minor berserk
- minor endurance

Solution: A skill that provides a buff must be slotted on the character's active bar for the buff to remain active.

2) Sneaking/Hiding is encouraged.
The wide open, rolling fields of Cyrodiil are a good setting for a massive, three-alliance war to take place. However, current game mechanics encourage sneaking and hiding in these wide open fields. Instead of being given more obstacles/barriers to hide behind to break line of sight, we are encouraged to crouch in a field, in broad daylight, and ambush enemies that cannot detect us from a mere 8 meters away - which is an excellent tactic because sneaking and hiding allows you to get all those aforementioned buffs active (and regenerate your resources) before you attack an enemy who has no idea that you're invisible, in broad daylight, 8 meters away.

Solution: Extend the detection radius of all players to a reasonable enough distance that makes sense in open field, broad daylight areas.

3) Evasion is a no-brainer.
A cheap and easy skill to cast that gives every single build in the game a 20% chance to dodge attacks for at least 20 seconds. If you're not running this on your previously mentioned buff-bar, regardless of your build, you are gimping yourself.

Solution: Force users to have at least 5 medium armor pieces equipped to use this skill.

s7732425ub17_ESO · June 2016

> Solution: A skill that provides a buff must be slotted on the character's active bar for the buff to remain active.
I'm not sure if you are serious or trolling hardcore.

I do like your other two suggestions, though.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

> Solution: A skill that provides a buff must be slotted on the character's active bar for the buff to remain active.
I'm not sure if you are serious or trolling hardcore.

I do like your other two suggestions, though.

I know it's not a popular suggestion, but I'm 100% serious. Right now most people are wasting a skill bar to apply the same buffs as everyone else - what's the point if everyone is running around with the same list of buffs active?

If a buff can only be active with the necessary skill slotted, then people can run more diverse builds.

Xexpo · June 2016

I would settle for a non laggy buggy weapon swap

Cathexis · June 2016

I agree with the first two.

Not the solution to the last one though. You are basically saying that medium armor should be defensively stronger than heavy armor at that point. I'm not saying they shouldn't be on par with each other, but that would blatantly make medium tankier than heavy.

Hartagon · June 2016

The saddest PvP truth: No one plays anymore.

I resubscribed to this game two days ago. I spent about 90 minutes in PvP I am rank like 500 in alliance points for my faction. That is to say, there are only ~500 people in my entire faction for the entire North American server who have PvP'd this week.

That is pretty sad.

Hopefully the population lasts long enough that I can unlock the alliance skills before PvP no longer exists...

WreckfulAbandon · June 2016

Stamina builds are out of control at the moment.

It's not the sole reason PvP is borked, but its up there.

holosoul · June 2016

Hartagon wrote: »

The saddest PvP truth: No one plays anymore.

I resubscribed to this game two days ago. I spent about 90 minutes in PvP I am rank like 500 in alliance points for my faction. That is to say, there are only ~500 people in my entire faction for the entire North American server who have PvP'd this week.

That is pretty sad.

Hopefully the population lasts long enough that I can unlock the alliance skills before PvP no longer exists...

eh its been like this for a while
you'd have thought ZOS would get the message, really

Stannum · June 2016

The main truth of PvP is that megaservers idea is awful. Any mass PvP is so laggy that all your skills and combinations are useless unless its one-on-one or small group fight. When 3-4 full groups meet the latancy on server side bacames unacceptable for MMO.

Faulgor · June 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Solution: A skill that provides a buff must be slotted on the character's active bar for the buff to remain active.

This is how it should have been, and actually has been in many cases, from the start. Personally I was even a bit upset when they introduced the concept of weapon swap, because it undermined the initial concept of the 5 skill limit. 10 slots are usually enough to slot everything your build needs, which means builds tend to become homogenized. If I actually had to chose between Shuffle or Rally, things would be really different.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Solution: Force users to have at least 5 medium armor pieces equipped to use this skill.

This would kill most tank builds based on Tava's Favor. I think requiring to have Shuffle on your main bar would be enough.

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Stamina builds are out of control at the moment.

It's not the sole reason PvP is borked, but its up there.

Can somebody tell me why anyone would play a magicka build in PvP? Because I can't think of anything. Lower primary power stat, less resistances in light armor, can only CC break once or twice ...

Didaco · June 2016

Faulgor wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Solution: A skill that provides a buff must be slotted on the character's active bar for the buff to remain active.

This is how it should have been, and actually has been in many cases, from the start. Personally I was even a bit upset when they introduced the concept of weapon swap, because it undermined the initial concept of the 5 skill limit. 10 slots are usually enough to slot everything your build needs, which means builds tend to become homogenized. If I actually had to chose between Shuffle or Rally, things would be really different.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Solution: Force users to have at least 5 medium armor pieces equipped to use this skill.

This would kill most tank builds based on Tava's Favor. I think requiring to have Shuffle on your main bar would be enough.

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Stamina builds are out of control at the moment.

It's not the sole reason PvP is borked, but its up there.

Can somebody tell me why anyone would play a magicka build in PvP? Because I can't think of anything. Lower primary power stat, less resistances in light armor, can only CC break once or twice ...

To spam Beams and BoLs, obviously

Solariken · June 2016

I agree that the problems outlined in the OP are serious.

I also agree that stealth play is overly encouraged and overly effective. Increasing the detection area would be a great change (as long as it's increased in the frontal cone only, obviously).

I disagree with Shuffle being locked behind 5 pieces of medium. A better solution would be to reduce the dodge chance granted by Major Evasion to something like 8%. The current 20% chance is far too high.

I also disagree with wiping buffs if swapping to a bar without that buff slotted. I don't think there is a silver bullet that will fix the problem of "buff bars" except that there should be more skill options to obtain all buffs. Spell crafting anyone?

the_man_of_steal · June 2016

The Laggy Bar swap is my bane. I agree with OP there are other issues to be sure. But Puhhhhhlease ZOS prioritize the lag with these massive battles. I know many PC players have said it has been better, but on Console it almost feels worse...

SneaK · June 2016

The saddest truth of PvP, is that it is the least competitive game in existence. There is no reason to care about winning or losing in ESO, leaderboards have no connection to winning campaigns.

BlackMadara · June 2016

There would be even less build diversity if you had have a buff in the bar for it to work. Everyone would either have a heal bar or have two slots for major brutality and sorcery. This is why theyb are phasing out double bared toggles.

KundaliniHero · June 2016

Here's another PVP truth - we need small scale PVP - duels, 2v2, 4v4 and 24 v 24 battlegrounds with objectives. The current districts in IC have the right idea but because the population is loosely regulated to a come-and-go free-for-all they essentially just transferred the zerg below.

I am daggerfall PS4 NA and we have become quite accustomed to fighting zergs which is probably why we have some of the best players in our faction because when you're constantly getting your sh*t pushed in well you start to adapt and get better. The only problem with this is the fact that it gets old and boring. Traveling for 15 minutes to get somewhere in Cyrodiil only to die within two minutes from a swarm of skilless *** spamming steel tornado etc. can easily suck all the enthusiasm out of the experience. level the playing field already with a dynamic match based approach, I guarantee it will breathe new life into the game. I know ZOS has tried to do things differently than other MMO's and I understand that desire but you can still include popular game formats and still make them unique, there is a reason they are popular: because they work.

Bromburak · June 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Apart from the saddest PVP Truth of them all (that lag/performance is awful), here are 3 other sad PVP Truths and solutions that create happier alternatives for improved gameplay.

1) Buff-bar swapping is a "must."

It depends.

I agree that Vigor, Rally etc. are more comfy builds for stamina casuals but you can still play very agressive offensive builds.
And yes if you make a mistake your build is not forgiving anything , however swapping for buffs or heal is not a must for every play style.

2) Sneaking/Hiding is encouraged.
The wide open, rolling fields of Cyrodiil are a good setting for a massive, three-alliance war to take place. However, current game mechanics encourage sneaking and hiding in these wide open fields. Instead of being given more obstacles/barriers to hide behind to break line of sight, we are encouraged to crouch in a field, in broad daylight, and ambush enemies that cannot detect us from a mere 8 meters away - which is an excellent tactic because sneaking and hiding allows you to get all those aforementioned buffs active (and regenerate your resources) before you attack an enemy who has no idea that you're invisible, in broad daylight, 8 meters away.

You want more diversity?
Wear different sets and how about adjusting your buff bar with Mage light and fighters guild skill instead?

Be flexible, the game has it all.
Just accept the fact, that you cannot have it all because sometimes you need to specialize.

Btw. many players don't even crouch or play smart enough when they really need to.
Especially the 80% random zerg, they move forward like a horde of elephants.
Stealth detection was never an issue.

3) Evasion is a no-brainer.
A cheap and easy skill to cast that gives every single build in the game a 20% chance to dodge attacks for at least 20 seconds. If you're not running this on your previously mentioned buff-bar, regardless of your build, you are gimping yourself.

Solution: Force users to have at least 5 medium armor pieces equipped to use this skill.

I don't agree it depends on your opponent skills or your evade is waste.

I agree that Shuffle feels comfy for most situations but the HA active is much more efficient. Keep in mind that most fights are decided by who is breaking or avoiding CC first and thats because you can save up a dodge, a block and stay offensive without wasting time and stamina on your defense. Immovable is one of the most under rated skills in ESO.

Another reason are questionable stat machines like sorcs, their bounding armor toggle is not really efficient because most sorcs waste 2 slots instead using immovable and put a much better skill on the second free slot.

Of course stam sorcs have other problems, because anyone who plays a stam sorc asks him self why the f*** he is playing the worst utility class ingame while only using 20% of a classes skills.