[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?

Kyle_Rennison · May 2016

I hope ZOS manage to get this sorted and with haste because it is really damaging to the community and make players go elsewhere and thats the last thing we want to do. PVP is a large part of the game and people using hacks/exploits is just unfair and i support the opinions here saying there should be a zero tolerance

Thanks
Kyle

Jaronking · May 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This kind of intentional exploitation and cheating is disgusting. This is the same behavior that ruined diablo on console platforms, such a shame to see players going out of their way to ruin a game.

Well to be fair their not trying to ruin the game well not all of them some are just trying to get @ZOS to fox their dam game.Can you blame them for that?

What kind of reasoning is that? Seems akin to saying you went on a shooting spree, murdering lots of innocent people, just to highlight the need for gun control laws.

No one is taking advantage of exploits or hacks to help the game. They are doing it because they are selfish, childish (insert your favorite expletive). This is true of the popular streamers who were using axeploit in PvP and PvE. It is true of those who has a dozen mundus stone buffs. It is true of those who used the banker mats exploit. It is true any of the myriad of exploits the game has had. Only this takes it one step further as it is not only flawed code permitting an exploit, but a genuine hack.

WTF how is that even close to being the same thing?No need to answer its not.

Dude if it wasn't for them none of us would have known about the hacks to begin with.So yea they helped the game by letting everyone know this crap was happening .Sorry that am happy they bring this to light instead of ZOS trying to hide the information like they always do.They made it known now it can be fixed.

clayandaudrey_ESO · May 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This kind of intentional exploitation and cheating is disgusting. This is the same behavior that ruined diablo on console platforms, such a shame to see players going out of their way to ruin a game.

Well to be fair their not trying to ruin the game well not all of them some are just trying to get @ZOS to fox their dam game.Can you blame them for that?

What kind of reasoning is that? Seems akin to saying you went on a shooting spree, murdering lots of innocent people, just to highlight the need for gun control laws.

No one is taking advantage of exploits or hacks to help the game. They are doing it because they are selfish, childish (insert your favorite expletive). This is true of the popular streamers who were using axeploit in PvP and PvE. It is true of those who has a dozen mundus stone buffs. It is true of those who used the banker mats exploit. It is true any of the myriad of exploits the game has had. Only this takes it one step further as it is not only flawed code permitting an exploit, but a genuine hack.

WTF how is that even close to being the same thing?No need to answer its not.

Dude if it wasn't for them none of us would have known about the hacks to begin with.So yea they helped the game by letting everyone know this crap was happening .Sorry that am happy they bring this to light instead of ZOS trying to hide the information like they always do.They made it known now it can be fixed.

Cheat engine has been around a looooong time. Much longer than eso. This has been reported to ZOS since beta so I would not praise these cheaters too much. The whole we cheated for you to make the game better is complete bs. They got caught doing it when they thought no one was looking. I don't believe they did it for the better good.

SwaminoNowlino · May 2016

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This kind of intentional exploitation and cheating is disgusting. This is the same behavior that ruined diablo on console platforms, such a shame to see players going out of their way to ruin a game.

Well to be fair their not trying to ruin the game well not all of them some are just trying to get @ZOS to fox their dam game.Can you blame them for that?

What kind of reasoning is that? Seems akin to saying you went on a shooting spree, murdering lots of innocent people, just to highlight the need for gun control laws.

No one is taking advantage of exploits or hacks to help the game. They are doing it because they are selfish, childish (insert your favorite expletive). This is true of the popular streamers who were using axeploit in PvP and PvE. It is true of those who has a dozen mundus stone buffs. It is true of those who used the banker mats exploit. It is true any of the myriad of exploits the game has had. Only this takes it one step further as it is not only flawed code permitting an exploit, but a genuine hack.

WTF how is that even close to being the same thing?No need to answer its not.

Dude if it wasn't for them none of us would have known about the hacks to begin with.So yea they helped the game by letting everyone know this crap was happening .Sorry that am happy they bring this to light instead of ZOS trying to hide the information like they always do.They made it known now it can be fixed.

Cheat engine has been around a looooong time. Much longer than eso. This has been reported to ZOS since beta so I would not praise these cheaters too much. The whole we cheated for you to make the game better is complete bs. They got caught doing it when they thought no one was looking. I don't believe they did it for the better good.

Except they did it in Fengrush's stream, for 600+ viewers, and talked about it in his stream saying that's why they were doing it and encouraging him to post videos of it. So the got caught when they thought no one was looking is a bit of a stretch. Were they being completely altruistic and stuff? No. It was largely a group of players who wanted to troll because they didn't give much of a crap what happened to them. The people who got banned are largely the one's who made it so blatantly obvious they knew folks were going to see. Be worried about the guys out there who care and are not so obvious, because nothing is happening to them. You could go in VMA, get to the last boss in 10 minutes using Ulti spam, log out so your score doesn't record, and go back in. You could farm VMA all day like that with no one being the wiser. Not saying anyone has, but they certainly could.

Luckily(?) I'm on Xbox and don't have to worry about such things, just the usual lagfest that kills you in VMA to the point where I got to the final boss and haven't been back in. Just don't have the heart or patience.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2016

Does it make me a horrible person that just once I would love to run VMA with unlimited ultimate? Haha. I wonder how many people we are up to at this point for bans. One of the guilty parties in question was in one of my guilds. His name no longer seems to be anywhere on the roster, so at least that part seems to be working. I remember when I got the alert for a crazy VMA score. I posted in guild chat, "@"""""", dude, did you break VMA? What Happened?" Immediately got 10 whispers explaining about the exploit.

It seems that for every active exploiter, there are a bunch more people who knew about it. Surprised it took this long to get some action, but late is better than never, I suppose...

Elsonso · May 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom ... so, I know there is this hotfix, and all, but while you are waiting for testing to complete, any update on the information that was to be released today?

zerosingularity · May 2016

Now that the server is back up, wonder when we are gonna get that detailed update regarding this.

cpuScientist · June 2016

There is nothing they can really do. Unless they do very big changes to this game, there is nothing at all they can do

ИВАН_ВОДКА · June 2016

any news?

ZOS must post smthing important they say

about reset leaderboards?

Thornen · June 2016

The problem was it's been going on since day 1, Zos have been told continuously about these hacks and exploits over the last 2 years and every time it's been swept under the rug. The only reason it's in the spotlight now is because these people got so fed up that it no longer mattered to them if they were destroying the game or not.

As it is Zos is in damage control making sure all posts are stuffed into this one thread so it can eventually fall off the front page. Don't be fooled guys this will continue to happen albeit alot more discretely while Zos push content over fixes.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

Was an update, statement, or details ever released beyond the "we banned 43 players and turned on our anti-cheat?"

Or is everyone just hoping this quietly disappears?

Arthg · June 2016

************* ANNOUNCEMENT AVAILABLE IN THE LAUNCHER ***************

Dear ESO community,

We would like to apologize for our chronic failure, from the creation of this game onwards, to address the issue of hacks and cheats now plaguing Tamriel. This weekend's dramatic events, where a few renowned players of our US servers displayed the Zeus-like possibilities that certain trivial cheating platforms could give, have opened our eyes to the endemic scope of the problem.

In order to reestablish a healthy and rewarding gaming environment, here are the steps we are planning to take in the next few months:

* we are redirecting resources to rewrite the client / server architecture to reduce the number of client-side critical values;
* we will be considering using a 3rd-party software to further secure the integrity of client information, and reduce the load of calculations on the servers;
* game masters are being recruited as we write this message. They will be regularly visible on both EU and NA servers; members of the community willing to apply for the position should send an email to @ZOS_hiringGM.
* regarding past cheats, fine-grained algorithms are being written to filter out abnormal regeneration, movement speed and damage values. The number of reports and the rate of ultimate regeneration will no longer be the only parameters used to detect cheaters.
* Confirmed cheaters will no longer have their accounts "perma-banned". Instead, all their characters will be pilloried in a new dedicated area in Coldharbour, in perpetuity. These characters will never be able to move in Tamriel again. Players will be invited to feed them radish or give them the /dishonor emote.

Our dear community is invited to understand the changes will not happen overnight.
We do hope, however, that these measures will help keep, or regain, your trust.

Happy questing,
Happy fighting,

ZOS.

Thornen · June 2016

arth-grogalith wrote: »

************* ANNOUNCEMENT AVAILABLE IN THE LAUNCHER ***************

Dear ESO community,

We would like to apologize for our chronic failure, from the creation of this game onwards, to address the issue of hacks and cheats now plaguing Tamriel. This weekend's dramatic events, where a few renowned players of our US servers displayed the Zeus-like possibilities that certain trivial cheating platforms could give, have opened our eyes to the endemic scope of the problem.

In order to reestablish a healthy and rewarding gaming environment, here are the steps we are planning to take in the next few months:

* we are redirecting resources to rewrite the client / server architecture to reduce the number of client-side critical values;
* we will be considering using a 3rd-party software to further secure the integrity of client information, and reduce the load of calculations on the servers;
* game masters are being recruited as we write this message. They will be regularly visible on both EU and NA servers; members of the community willing to apply for the position should send an email to @ZOS_hiringGM.
* regarding past cheats, fine-grained algorithms are being written to filter out abnormal regeneration, movement speed and damage values. The number of reports and the rate of ultimate regeneration will no longer be the only parameters used to detect cheaters.
* Confirmed cheaters will no longer have their accounts "perma-banned". Instead, all their characters will be pilloried in a new dedicated area in Coldharbour, in perpetuity. These characters will never be able to move in Tamriel again. Players will be invited to feed them radish or give them the /dishonor emote.

Our dear community is invited to understand the changes will not happen overnight.
We do hope, however, that these measures will help keep, or regain, your trust.

Happy questing,
Happy fighting,

ZOS.

If only...

WitchyWarrior · June 2016

So, yeah. PvPing last night and saw at least 3 players who were said to have been banned playing(funny part was the one who 1-shotted me last week, tried to ambush me last night and he went down very fast lol).

I guess they aren't going to inform the rest of us what is going on and try hiding it all under the rug again.

yumyum · June 2016

Can you please stop calling them hacks and hackers, it take skill to be a hacker, there is no skill in making or using a cheat.

There is not a lot can be done to stop this as ESO does not have any anti cheat system in place, which is sad as cheat engine is very easy to detected. The best thing and only thing that can be done at this point is to get GM's playing and watching players, server admins are still the best anti cheat there is and for players to keep reporting players which could be using a 3rd party tool.

There are other thing which need to be done but i am not going to post them on here, also i would contact Evenbalance and have a chat with them,

ZOS_DaryaK · June 2016

To reiterate:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

Molag_Crow · June 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

To reiterate:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

This is great news.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

To reiterate:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

In other words Cheat Engine users ,

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WmJUVgHEv8

clayandaudrey_ESO · June 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

To reiterate:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

To reiterate:

Where is the info that was coming "tomorrow"?

Ashtaris · June 2016

arth-grogalith wrote: »

************* ANNOUNCEMENT AVAILABLE IN THE LAUNCHER ***************

Dear ESO community,

We would like to apologize for our chronic failure, from the creation of this game onwards, to address the issue of hacks and cheats now plaguing Tamriel. This weekend's dramatic events, where a few renowned players of our US servers displayed the Zeus-like possibilities that certain trivial cheating platforms could give, have opened our eyes to the endemic scope of the problem.

In order to reestablish a healthy and rewarding gaming environment, here are the steps we are planning to take in the next few months:

* we are redirecting resources to rewrite the client / server architecture to reduce the number of client-side critical values;
* we will be considering using a 3rd-party software to further secure the integrity of client information, and reduce the load of calculations on the servers;
* game masters are being recruited as we write this message. They will be regularly visible on both EU and NA servers; members of the community willing to apply for the position should send an email to @ZOS_hiringGM.
* regarding past cheats, fine-grained algorithms are being written to filter out abnormal regeneration, movement speed and damage values. The number of reports and the rate of ultimate regeneration will no longer be the only parameters used to detect cheaters.
* Confirmed cheaters will no longer have their accounts "perma-banned". Instead, all their characters will be pilloried in a new dedicated area in Coldharbour, in perpetuity. These characters will never be able to move in Tamriel again. Players will be invited to feed them radish or give them the /dishonor emote.

Our dear community is invited to understand the changes will not happen overnight.
We do hope, however, that these measures will help keep, or regain, your trust.

Happy questing,
Happy fighting,

ZOS.

This is what they really need to do, but unfortunately, I doubt we will see it happen.

XaXa · June 2016

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Yes, something needed to be done about it.

But going full on whistle blower just before a major DLC (By basically showing everyone hiw to do it) was not the way to go about it. Those saying they went and did this "for the good of the game" are moronic.

DLC typically brings new life into a game. More players would come back and play, etc. However putting ZoS in this compromising of a position overshadows ALL publicity from the DB release. Prospective new players and returning players are now more likely to see these exploits and BS and instead be turned away.

Those that brought this to the public just before the DLC release have potentially caused irreparable damage to this game. If this marks "the beginning of the end" then it will be these individuals that are at fault.

I dont like the way ZoS handles things / mechanics. However these wistleblowers have caused more damage to this game then ZoS ever has.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

LadyNalcarya · June 2016

WitchyWarrior wrote: »

So, yeah. PvPing last night and saw at least 3 players who were said to have been banned playing(funny part was the one who 1-shotted me last week, tried to ambush me last night and he went down very fast lol).

I guess they aren't going to inform the rest of us what is going on and try hiding it all under the rug again.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Any comments on this?

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

It's also why in the military no one like to be called a hero . Even legend as a title leaves a bad taste sometimes . It takes a lot of people doing things with clear perspective to pull off success . Risk management . Minimizing collateral damage . All these things must be assessed by the experienced before a plan of action. Many keyboard warriors are not very deep thinkers . There're comedians at best and a nuisance at worst . Akatosh help Us if they are in important places irl ...

Elsonso · June 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

WitchyWarrior wrote: »

So, yeah. PvPing last night and saw at least 3 players who were said to have been banned playing(funny part was the one who 1-shotted me last week, tried to ambush me last night and he went down very fast lol).

I guess they aren't going to inform the rest of us what is going on and try hiding it all under the rug again.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Any comments on this?

I suspect that she spoke out of turn when she said that there would be more information coming "tomorrow". She probably thought there would be, at the time she said it. I have to wonder if she got into trouble for stating how many had been banned. I also wonder how many of those have been unbanned, and how many of those have resumed cheating.

Arthg · June 2016

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Yes, something needed to be done about it.

But going full on whistle blower just before a major DLC (By basically showing everyone hiw to do it) was not the way to go about it. Those saying they went and did this "for the good of the game" are moronic.

DLC typically brings new life into a game. More players would come back and play, etc. However putting ZoS in this compromising of a position overshadows ALL publicity from the DB release. Prospective new players and returning players are now more likely to see these exploits and BS and instead be turned away.

Those that brought this to the public just before the DLC release have potentially caused irreparable damage to this game. If this marks "the beginning of the end" then it will be these individuals that are at fault.

I dont like the way ZoS handles things / mechanics. However these wistleblowers have caused more damage to this game then ZoS ever has.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

I wouldn't discuss people's intentions: you can never know what they really wanted to do, sometimes they themselves don't have a clue. That's not even speaking about unintended consequences.

So let's discuss facts:
1) Whistle-blowing has been going on for a while. See this post by Crown for an example. I find it, well, chilling.
2) the blokes that wreaked havoc this weekend - well, 7:17 into this video by Fengrush, you learn that before the case snowballed into epic drama, they were issued an 8-hour ban for spamming meteors. An eight-hour ban, mind you, for using a cheating software.
3) it's only after the community learned about those shenanigans that ZOS issued a perma-ban.

In view of all this, frankly... That the whole thing blew into ZOS's face right before a DLC... I can't really empathize, sorry.

In a rugby game, if the ref's a wimp, the match will end up in a blood bath.
So in rugby, refs are strong, and they're respected.
Players toe the line and never discuss the ref's decisions.

I believe ZOS need to emulate rugby refs.

Still eagerly waiting for their announcement.

XaXa · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

It's also why in the military no one like to be called a hero . Even legend as a title leaves a bad taste sometimes . It takes a lot of people doing things with clear perspective to pull off success . Risk management . Minimizing collateral damage . All these things must be assessed by the experienced before a plan of action. Many keyboard warriors are not very deep thinkers . There're comedians at best and a nuisance at worst . Akatosh help Us if they are in important places irl ...

/Kneelpray that they arnt politicians

arth-grogalith wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Yes, something needed to be done about it.

But going full on whistle blower just before a major DLC (By basically showing everyone hiw to do it) was not the way to go about it. Those saying they went and did this "for the good of the game" are moronic.

DLC typically brings new life into a game. More players would come back and play, etc. However putting ZoS in this compromising of a position overshadows ALL publicity from the DB release. Prospective new players and returning players are now more likely to see these exploits and BS and instead be turned away.

Those that brought this to the public just before the DLC release have potentially caused irreparable damage to this game. If this marks "the beginning of the end" then it will be these individuals that are at fault.

I dont like the way ZoS handles things / mechanics. However these wistleblowers have caused more damage to this game then ZoS ever has.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

I wouldn't discuss people's intentions: you can never know what they really wanted to do, sometimes they themselves don't have a clue. That's not even speaking about unintended consequences.

So let's discuss facts:
1) Whistle-blowing has been going on for a while. See this post by Crown for an example. I find it, well, chilling.
2) the blokes that wreaked havoc this weekend - well, 7:17 into this video by Fengrush, you learn that before the case snowballed into epic drama, they were issued an 8-hour ban for spamming meteors. An eight-hour ban, mind you, for using a cheating software.
3) it's only after the community learned about those shenanigans that ZOS issued a perma-ban.

In view of all this, frankly... That the whole thing blew into ZOS's face right before a DLC... I can't really empathize, sorry.

In a rugby game, if the ref's a wimp, the match will end up in a blood bath.
So in rugby, refs are strong, and they're respected.
Players toe the line and never discuss the ref's decisions.

I believe ZOS need to emulate rugby refs.

Still eagerly waiting for their announcement.

Oh I agree with you. Something NEEDED to be done and ZoS needs to grow more of a backbone.

But going public by showing everyone how to do this has more negative consequences then positive ones.

I get where they are coming from and in theory its not a bad idea. Create chaos to force ZoS hand. However the unintended side effects of doing this right before a major patch is a major blow the the longevity of this game.

I cant find the post where the guy was claiming why he did what he did. But he claims it was with the best intentions. I agree I cant be 100% sure of his intentions because i not psychic (sadly).

However taking his logic. And applying it to extreme measures:

Someone thinks gun violence is an issue.
Gets gun and conducts a mass shooting.
Chaos ensues.
Helped raise awareness for gun violence.

Just doesnt really make sense to me.

Ill try and find the link to the post.

EDIT: Found the link. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

Granted. it can be debated that it isnt real as its posted through someone else.

EDIT: Hadnt seen that post from Crown before. That is shocking and quite depressing. Maybe therr was a better way to get this resolved, maybe not. Idk anymore and am now just even more frustrated over the whole thing.

cpuScientist · June 2016

XaXa wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

It's also why in the military no one like to be called a hero . Even legend as a title leaves a bad taste sometimes . It takes a lot of people doing things with clear perspective to pull off success . Risk management . Minimizing collateral damage . All these things must be assessed by the experienced before a plan of action. Many keyboard warriors are not very deep thinkers . There're comedians at best and a nuisance at worst . Akatosh help Us if they are in important places irl ...

/Kneelpray that they arnt politicians

arth-grogalith wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Yes, something needed to be done about it.

But going full on whistle blower just before a major DLC (By basically showing everyone hiw to do it) was not the way to go about it. Those saying they went and did this "for the good of the game" are moronic.

DLC typically brings new life into a game. More players would come back and play, etc. However putting ZoS in this compromising of a position overshadows ALL publicity from the DB release. Prospective new players and returning players are now more likely to see these exploits and BS and instead be turned away.

Those that brought this to the public just before the DLC release have potentially caused irreparable damage to this game. If this marks "the beginning of the end" then it will be these individuals that are at fault.

I dont like the way ZoS handles things / mechanics. However these wistleblowers have caused more damage to this game then ZoS ever has.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

I wouldn't discuss people's intentions: you can never know what they really wanted to do, sometimes they themselves don't have a clue. That's not even speaking about unintended consequences.

So let's discuss facts:
1) Whistle-blowing has been going on for a while. See this post by Crown for an example. I find it, well, chilling.
2) the blokes that wreaked havoc this weekend - well, 7:17 into this video by Fengrush, you learn that before the case snowballed into epic drama, they were issued an 8-hour ban for spamming meteors. An eight-hour ban, mind you, for using a cheating software.
3) it's only after the community learned about those shenanigans that ZOS issued a perma-ban.

In view of all this, frankly... That the whole thing blew into ZOS's face right before a DLC... I can't really empathize, sorry.

In a rugby game, if the ref's a wimp, the match will end up in a blood bath.
So in rugby, refs are strong, and they're respected.
Players toe the line and never discuss the ref's decisions.

I believe ZOS need to emulate rugby refs.

Still eagerly waiting for their announcement.

Oh I agree with you. Something NEEDED to be done and ZoS needs to grow more of a backbone.

But going public by showing everyone how to do this has more negative consequences then positive ones.

I get where they are coming from and in theory its not a bad idea. Create chaos to force ZoS hand. However the unintended side effects of doing this right before a major patch is a major blow the the longevity of this game.

I cant find the post where the guy was claiming why he did what he did. But he claims it was with the best intentions. I agree I cant be 100% sure of his intentions because i not psychic (sadly).

However taking his logic. And applying it to extreme measures:

Someone thinks gun violence is an issue.
Gets gun and conducts a mass shooting.
Chaos ensues.
Helped raise awareness for gun violence.

Just doesnt really make sense to me.

Ill try and find the link to the post.

EDIT: Found the link. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

Granted. it can be debated that it isnt real as its posted through someone else.

EDIT: Hadnt seen that post from Crown before. That is shocking and quite depressing. Maybe therr was a better way to get this resolved, maybe not. Idk anymore and am now just even more frustrated over the whole thing.

Killing people is as you said an extreme example and does not apply here.

It's hard to empathize with ZOS when they have been told about this for more than 2 years since BETA. And have done nothing to remedy the situation. So I praise that guy he brought all to light. And if cheating is a big blow to this game, then that's ALL on ZOS. People will cheat (I hate them for it. But they are out there and love doing it/ don't give a damn)

If after 2+ years of going through proper channels and nothing gets done, and it gets swept under the rug. Then a stunt like this will happen, and force their hand.

Now I would not have done it, no. I would've continued to contact ZOS, and waited until after the patch (but that is because I am such a nice guy honestly) Do I think they were wrong, well they hurt the game no doubt, but it seems to be the only way to heal the game aswell.

I will not stick around if this kind od thing continues, and it seems like it will so in the end ZOS has NO ONE to blame but themselves. And it's just a wait and see as to what happens. But Fengrush and the whistleblowers have atleast got the ball rolling so I praise them for that, where it ends up, only time will tell...

cpuScientist · June 2016

Even if the cheating was just happening from top players and not really out in the open well those top players are leading the leaderboards getting emperor and making their level unattainable. And making all other players seem inferior. And that's not healthy for a game. ZOS needs to make a statement and not try to sweep this u see the rug, else it will be over for them.

Maybe not today maybe not next month. But soon.

XaXa · June 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

It's also why in the military no one like to be called a hero . Even legend as a title leaves a bad taste sometimes . It takes a lot of people doing things with clear perspective to pull off success . Risk management . Minimizing collateral damage . All these things must be assessed by the experienced before a plan of action. Many keyboard warriors are not very deep thinkers . There're comedians at best and a nuisance at worst . Akatosh help Us if they are in important places irl ...

/Kneelpray that they arnt politicians

arth-grogalith wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

I really dont get the people defending those who brought the cheat engine thing to light.

Yes, something needed to be done about it.

But going full on whistle blower just before a major DLC (By basically showing everyone hiw to do it) was not the way to go about it. Those saying they went and did this "for the good of the game" are moronic.

DLC typically brings new life into a game. More players would come back and play, etc. However putting ZoS in this compromising of a position overshadows ALL publicity from the DB release. Prospective new players and returning players are now more likely to see these exploits and BS and instead be turned away.

Those that brought this to the public just before the DLC release have potentially caused irreparable damage to this game. If this marks "the beginning of the end" then it will be these individuals that are at fault.

I dont like the way ZoS handles things / mechanics. However these wistleblowers have caused more damage to this game then ZoS ever has.

Theres a saying i learned in the military:

"Good Intentions. Horrible judgement"

I wouldn't discuss people's intentions: you can never know what they really wanted to do, sometimes they themselves don't have a clue. That's not even speaking about unintended consequences.

So let's discuss facts:
1) Whistle-blowing has been going on for a while. See this post by Crown for an example. I find it, well, chilling.
2) the blokes that wreaked havoc this weekend - well, 7:17 into this video by Fengrush, you learn that before the case snowballed into epic drama, they were issued an 8-hour ban for spamming meteors. An eight-hour ban, mind you, for using a cheating software.
3) it's only after the community learned about those shenanigans that ZOS issued a perma-ban.

In view of all this, frankly... That the whole thing blew into ZOS's face right before a DLC... I can't really empathize, sorry.

In a rugby game, if the ref's a wimp, the match will end up in a blood bath.
So in rugby, refs are strong, and they're respected.
Players toe the line and never discuss the ref's decisions.

I believe ZOS need to emulate rugby refs.

Still eagerly waiting for their announcement.

Oh I agree with you. Something NEEDED to be done and ZoS needs to grow more of a backbone.

But going public by showing everyone how to do this has more negative consequences then positive ones.

I get where they are coming from and in theory its not a bad idea. Create chaos to force ZoS hand. However the unintended side effects of doing this right before a major patch is a major blow the the longevity of this game.

I cant find the post where the guy was claiming why he did what he did. But he claims it was with the best intentions. I agree I cant be 100% sure of his intentions because i not psychic (sadly).

However taking his logic. And applying it to extreme measures:

Someone thinks gun violence is an issue.
Gets gun and conducts a mass shooting.
Chaos ensues.
Helped raise awareness for gun violence.

Just doesnt really make sense to me.

Ill try and find the link to the post.

EDIT: Found the link. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

Granted. it can be debated that it isnt real as its posted through someone else.

EDIT: Hadnt seen that post from Crown before. That is shocking and quite depressing. Maybe therr was a better way to get this resolved, maybe not. Idk anymore and am now just even more frustrated over the whole thing.

Killing people is as you said an extreme example and does not apply here.

It's hard to empathize with ZOS when they have been told about this for more than 2 years since BETA. And have done nothing to remedy the situation. So I praise that guy he brought all to light. And if cheating is a big blow to this game, then that's ALL on ZOS. People will cheat (I hate them for it. But they are out there and love doing it/ don't give a damn)

If after 2+ years of going through proper channels and nothing gets done, and it gets swept under the rug. Then a stunt like this will happen, and force their hand.

Now I would not have done it, no. I would've continued to contact ZOS, and waited until after the patch (but that is because I am such a nice guy honestly) Do I think they were wrong, well they hurt the game no doubt, but it seems to be the only way to heal the game aswell.

I will not stick around if this kind od thing continues, and it seems like it will so in the end ZOS has NO ONE to blame but themselves. And it's just a wait and see as to what happens. But Fengrush and the whistleblowers have atleast got the ball rolling so I praise them for that, where it ends up, only time will tell...

Its for sure a sticky situation, i see your point and i agree with you on most things. I dont really think zos gets a free pass here necessarily. They have alot of questions to answer. I just think that their tactic will do more bad then good long run. Oh well....maybe it was the only way.

At least we can agree that something needed to be done. As much as i disagree with the tactic i would love to be proven wrong and have it work out for the best. Hopefully that happens and everything is resolved.

XaXa · June 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Even if the cheating was just happening from top players and not really out in the open well those top players are leading the leaderboards getting emperor and making their level unattainable. And making all other players seem inferior. And that's not healthy for a game. ZOS needs to make a statement and not try to sweep this u see the rug, else it will be over for them.

Maybe not today maybe not next month. But soon.

Now I agree with you on this 100%.

ZOS needs to make it 100% clear that there is 0 tolerance for this.

Especially after reading the crown post (thanks for sharing that btw) it is unacceptable for them to stick their fingers in their ears.

We need a 0 tolerance policy for cheating / exploiting. A way to accurately, effectively and efficently enforce that policy. As well as a way to police the community without opening a way for griefers to submit false reports. (Has it ben 100% confirmed that was happening? Ive heard mixed news?)