Maintenance for the week of September 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
Tomorrows ESO Live, what do you wanna see/hear? Won a poster on ESO Live :)
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WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes - there's just too many to go through in this show without it turning into an all-nighter, and the team is still actively making changes.
You guys should just give Wrobel his own show every PTS cycle, The Wrobel special or something.
So we can all watch him dodge questions everytime? XD
It is an interesting idea, he might need body armor for it though.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes
That must be a joke!
Nobody wants to hear stuff we already know. We want Feedback to our Feedback to Skillchanges etc.
Until those changes are finalized what can he say about it? They are still gathering data.
You must be new to the game. It is like this every large patch with ZoS promising they will eventually address our concerns, that they are listening and watching the forums and yet, guess how many times our concerns are really addressed?
I remember a year back @Wrobel promised to come to the show and discuss the issues with sorcerers, he also promised to discuss with players here in the forum... It never really happened and it never will. ESO Live consists of them going over topics everyone has heard about at least 3 times before, explaining some changes that anyone capable of reading should be able to understand from the patch notes and more importantly, it consists of the team ignoring every hard question asked in the chat or here in the forum.
Im not new Ive been here since the first day. Heck before the first day I was in one of the last betas too. I still think the best avenue for feedback is via the official feedback threads and not a live Q&A where they cant reserach the answers to the questions. Or are not allowed to talk about them just yet.
Heh, they never answer to their feedback pages either. Sorcerer's official feedback already has over 20 pages of comments and yet @Wrobel went and made a post in an unofficial post. That is how much they pay attention to their own feedback section.
The feedback threads are not a back and forth. You leave feedback and they review it.
Precisely why we would want them to address those concerns in ESO Live. Because they never ever address concerns in the forum. Not really.
ESO live is not a forum for that either. They take your feedback. Make changes based on it. put out the PTS patch notes. Take more feedback. Issue another patch. Until it goes live. ESO live is and always has been kind of an advertising thing to sell the latest update or DLC etc. Its simply not long enough to deal with this kind of thing.
ZOS does not make changes based on our feedback. They announce a change, and sometimes put up a feedback thread about it. They make one post in said thread thanking us for our feedback. Then completely ignoring player feedback they implement whatever they want, however they want.
Then why did they create those feedback threads? I think they do listen to a lot of feedback. Some things tho the players want is not healthy for the game over all. Poll your kids and ask them if they want to eat vegetables or cookies. I bet most will pick the cookies. Then you serve veggies to them and they claim you ignored their feedback on dinner.
Here is some indisputable proof that ZOS completely ignores feedback, and implements whatever they hell they want.
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
That anology is plain insulting. We are not children, and a good number of us have been playing MMOs longer than ZOS has been a company. When 87% of over 4,000 people tell you not to do something, and you do it anyway, you don't listen to feedback. We speak from experience, because we have seen other companies implement some of the same things that completely their game.
They already explained why they cannot remove AOE caps. He talked about it on the forums and on ESO live. They heard your feedback you just didnt like the answer they gave. Same as the kid who doesnt understand why you cant eat cookies for dinner.
Wrobel has not once said why AOE caps were put in the game, (that poll was from before they were implemented) or why they won't remove them. The only thing ZOS will say on the issue is "there are no plans to remove them", and "we added this new ability or item set that should break up those ball groups".
He explains starting at 9:30
https://youtu.be/bKu7GnANIO8?t=9m29s
No he doesn't there is no explanation anywhere in that ESO Live. He completely talks around the subject for about 15 minutes.
lol he very clearly explains why it affects more than just PVP. He went on about it in detail. Explains why they came to this solution. You might not like the answer he gave but dont say he danced around anything. Hes VERY clear.
"Because PvE" is not a valid explanation for why AOE caps won't be removed. The community has come up with multiple easy to implement solutions that keep TTK the same without destroying PvP gameplay. Until ZOS goes into explicit technical detail on every limitation or issue they would experience with removing AOE caps, and has a back and forth discussion on it, they have not given a valid explanation. ZOS still refuses to admit why AOE caps were implemented in the first place, and their implementation had nothing to do with PvE.
Thats not what he said. He explained as well as he could to a general audience how and why they came to the decision they did. Anyways I can tell no matter what he says besides aoe caps have been removed would not be acceptable to you. So really no sense in discussing it anymore.
That is exactly what he said. I will be happy if ZOS tells us why they were patched into the game, and gives us an in depth technical explanations for why they can't be removed. Until then I'll keep operating under the assumption that they won't remove them because they don't want to, and fighting for their removal every chance I get.
I doubt they care to be frank. Fact is thats a dead horse basically. The rest of us have moved on.
No, the rest of you have rolled over.
If ZOS actually played their game (Matt Firor says he plays the PvP here but no way the director plays this and is happy or okay with how it turned out)
AoE caps won't be taken away because they don't want to admit they're wrong. Meanwhile more and more AoE bandaid fixes are thrown into the game. Interesting.Edited by WalkingLegacy on 6 May 2016 16:452 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes - there's just too many to go through in this show without it turning into an all-nighter, and the team is still actively making changes.
You guys should just give Wrobel his own show every PTS cycle, The Wrobel special or something.
So we can all watch him dodge questions everytime? XD
It is an interesting idea, he might need body armor for it though.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes
That must be a joke!
Nobody wants to hear stuff we already know. We want Feedback to our Feedback to Skillchanges etc.
Until those changes are finalized what can he say about it? They are still gathering data.
You must be new to the game. It is like this every large patch with ZoS promising they will eventually address our concerns, that they are listening and watching the forums and yet, guess how many times our concerns are really addressed?
I remember a year back @Wrobel promised to come to the show and discuss the issues with sorcerers, he also promised to discuss with players here in the forum... It never really happened and it never will. ESO Live consists of them going over topics everyone has heard about at least 3 times before, explaining some changes that anyone capable of reading should be able to understand from the patch notes and more importantly, it consists of the team ignoring every hard question asked in the chat or here in the forum.
Im not new Ive been here since the first day. Heck before the first day I was in one of the last betas too. I still think the best avenue for feedback is via the official feedback threads and not a live Q&A where they cant reserach the answers to the questions. Or are not allowed to talk about them just yet.
Heh, they never answer to their feedback pages either. Sorcerer's official feedback already has over 20 pages of comments and yet @Wrobel went and made a post in an unofficial post. That is how much they pay attention to their own feedback section.
The feedback threads are not a back and forth. You leave feedback and they review it.
Precisely why we would want them to address those concerns in ESO Live. Because they never ever address concerns in the forum. Not really.
ESO live is not a forum for that either. They take your feedback. Make changes based on it. put out the PTS patch notes. Take more feedback. Issue another patch. Until it goes live. ESO live is and always has been kind of an advertising thing to sell the latest update or DLC etc. Its simply not long enough to deal with this kind of thing.
ZOS does not make changes based on our feedback. They announce a change, and sometimes put up a feedback thread about it. They make one post in said thread thanking us for our feedback. Then completely ignoring player feedback they implement whatever they want, however they want.
Then why did they create those feedback threads? I think they do listen to a lot of feedback. Some things tho the players want is not healthy for the game over all. Poll your kids and ask them if they want to eat vegetables or cookies. I bet most will pick the cookies. Then you serve veggies to them and they claim you ignored their feedback on dinner.
Here is some indisputable proof that ZOS completely ignores feedback, and implements whatever they hell they want.
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
That anology is plain insulting. We are not children, and a good number of us have been playing MMOs longer than ZOS has been a company. When 87% of over 4,000 people tell you not to do something, and you do it anyway, you don't listen to feedback. We speak from experience, because we have seen other companies implement some of the same things that completely their game.
They already explained why they cannot remove AOE caps. He talked about it on the forums and on ESO live. They heard your feedback you just didnt like the answer they gave. Same as the kid who doesnt understand why you cant eat cookies for dinner.
Wrobel has not once said why AOE caps were put in the game, (that poll was from before they were implemented) or why they won't remove them. The only thing ZOS will say on the issue is "there are no plans to remove them", and "we added this new ability or item set that should break up those ball groups".
He explains starting at 9:30https://youtu.be/bKu7GnANIO8?t=9m29s
No he doesn't there is no explanation anywhere in that ESO Live. He completely talks around the subject for about 15 minutes.
lol he very clearly explains why it affects more than just PVP. He went on about it in detail. Explains why they came to this solution. You might not like the answer he gave but dont say he danced around anything. Hes VERY clear.
"Because PvE" is not a valid explanation for why AOE caps won't be removed. The community has come up with multiple easy to implement solutions that keep TTK the same without destroying PvP gameplay. Until ZOS goes into explicit technical detail on every limitation or issue they would experience with removing AOE caps, and has a back and forth discussion on it, they have not given a valid explanation. ZOS still refuses to admit why AOE caps were implemented in the first place, and their implementation had nothing to do with PvE.
Thats not what he said. He explained as well as he could to a general audience how and why they came to the decision they did. Anyways I can tell no matter what he says besides aoe caps have been removed would not be acceptable to you. So really no sense in discussing it anymore.
That is exactly what he said. I will be happy if ZOS tells us why they were patched into the game, and gives us an in depth technical explanations for why they can't be removed. Until then I'll keep operating under the assumption that they won't remove them because they don't want to, and fighting for their removal every chance I get.
I doubt they care to be frank. Fact is thats a dead horse basically. The rest of us have moved on.
Yes many PvPers have moved on....to other games, because AOE caps and lag make Cyrodiil an unenjoyable experience most of the time.
People come people go. No biggie.1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes - there's just too many to go through in this show without it turning into an all-nighter, and the team is still actively making changes.
You guys should just give Wrobel his own show every PTS cycle, The Wrobel special or something.
So we can all watch him dodge questions everytime? XD
It is an interesting idea, he might need body armor for it though.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes
That must be a joke!
Nobody wants to hear stuff we already know. We want Feedback to our Feedback to Skillchanges etc.
Until those changes are finalized what can he say about it? They are still gathering data.
You must be new to the game. It is like this every large patch with ZoS promising they will eventually address our concerns, that they are listening and watching the forums and yet, guess how many times our concerns are really addressed?
I remember a year back @Wrobel promised to come to the show and discuss the issues with sorcerers, he also promised to discuss with players here in the forum... It never really happened and it never will. ESO Live consists of them going over topics everyone has heard about at least 3 times before, explaining some changes that anyone capable of reading should be able to understand from the patch notes and more importantly, it consists of the team ignoring every hard question asked in the chat or here in the forum.
Im not new Ive been here since the first day. Heck before the first day I was in one of the last betas too. I still think the best avenue for feedback is via the official feedback threads and not a live Q&A where they cant reserach the answers to the questions. Or are not allowed to talk about them just yet.
Heh, they never answer to their feedback pages either. Sorcerer's official feedback already has over 20 pages of comments and yet @Wrobel went and made a post in an unofficial post. That is how much they pay attention to their own feedback section.
The feedback threads are not a back and forth. You leave feedback and they review it.
Precisely why we would want them to address those concerns in ESO Live. Because they never ever address concerns in the forum. Not really.
ESO live is not a forum for that either. They take your feedback. Make changes based on it. put out the PTS patch notes. Take more feedback. Issue another patch. Until it goes live. ESO live is and always has been kind of an advertising thing to sell the latest update or DLC etc. Its simply not long enough to deal with this kind of thing.
ZOS does not make changes based on our feedback. They announce a change, and sometimes put up a feedback thread about it. They make one post in said thread thanking us for our feedback. Then completely ignoring player feedback they implement whatever they want, however they want.
Then why did they create those feedback threads? I think they do listen to a lot of feedback. Some things tho the players want is not healthy for the game over all. Poll your kids and ask them if they want to eat vegetables or cookies. I bet most will pick the cookies. Then you serve veggies to them and they claim you ignored their feedback on dinner.
Here is some indisputable proof that ZOS completely ignores feedback, and implements whatever they hell they want.
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
That anology is plain insulting. We are not children, and a good number of us have been playing MMOs longer than ZOS has been a company. When 87% of over 4,000 people tell you not to do something, and you do it anyway, you don't listen to feedback. We speak from experience, because we have seen other companies implement some of the same things that completely their game.
They already explained why they cannot remove AOE caps. He talked about it on the forums and on ESO live. They heard your feedback you just didnt like the answer they gave. Same as the kid who doesnt understand why you cant eat cookies for dinner.
Wrobel has not once said why AOE caps were put in the game, (that poll was from before they were implemented) or why they won't remove them. The only thing ZOS will say on the issue is "there are no plans to remove them", and "we added this new ability or item set that should break up those ball groups".
He explains starting at 9:30https://youtu.be/bKu7GnANIO8?t=9m29s
No he doesn't there is no explanation anywhere in that ESO Live. He completely talks around the subject for about 15 minutes.
lol he very clearly explains why it affects more than just PVP. He went on about it in detail. Explains why they came to this solution. You might not like the answer he gave but dont say he danced around anything. Hes VERY clear.
"Because PvE" is not a valid explanation for why AOE caps won't be removed. The community has come up with multiple easy to implement solutions that keep TTK the same without destroying PvP gameplay. Until ZOS goes into explicit technical detail on every limitation or issue they would experience with removing AOE caps, and has a back and forth discussion on it, they have not given a valid explanation. ZOS still refuses to admit why AOE caps were implemented in the first place, and their implementation had nothing to do with PvE.
Thats not what he said. He explained as well as he could to a general audience how and why they came to the decision they did. Anyways I can tell no matter what he says besides aoe caps have been removed would not be acceptable to you. So really no sense in discussing it anymore.
See, that is an attitude and unfortunately one Zenimax shares with you. Are you sure you are not one of them in disguise? XD
They too believe that being transparent about the reasoning behind some of their most controversial decisions will not help calm things down. That leads them to thinking having healthy discussions with the community is impossible, pretty much like you are doing right now by saying 'no sense in discussing it anymore' . That in turn leads to a large portion of the community feeling their feedback is completely ignored as ZoS seems to be unable to compromise, then again, how can one compromise if they are not willing to discuss matters in the first place?Edited by Grao on 6 May 2016 16:475 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes - there's just too many to go through in this show without it turning into an all-nighter, and the team is still actively making changes.
You guys should just give Wrobel his own show every PTS cycle, The Wrobel special or something.
So we can all watch him dodge questions everytime? XD
It is an interesting idea, he might need body armor for it though.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes
That must be a joke!
Nobody wants to hear stuff we already know. We want Feedback to our Feedback to Skillchanges etc.
Until those changes are finalized what can he say about it? They are still gathering data.
You must be new to the game. It is like this every large patch with ZoS promising they will eventually address our concerns, that they are listening and watching the forums and yet, guess how many times our concerns are really addressed?
I remember a year back @Wrobel promised to come to the show and discuss the issues with sorcerers, he also promised to discuss with players here in the forum... It never really happened and it never will. ESO Live consists of them going over topics everyone has heard about at least 3 times before, explaining some changes that anyone capable of reading should be able to understand from the patch notes and more importantly, it consists of the team ignoring every hard question asked in the chat or here in the forum.
Im not new Ive been here since the first day. Heck before the first day I was in one of the last betas too. I still think the best avenue for feedback is via the official feedback threads and not a live Q&A where they cant reserach the answers to the questions. Or are not allowed to talk about them just yet.
Heh, they never answer to their feedback pages either. Sorcerer's official feedback already has over 20 pages of comments and yet @Wrobel went and made a post in an unofficial post. That is how much they pay attention to their own feedback section.
The feedback threads are not a back and forth. You leave feedback and they review it.
Precisely why we would want them to address those concerns in ESO Live. Because they never ever address concerns in the forum. Not really.
ESO live is not a forum for that either. They take your feedback. Make changes based on it. put out the PTS patch notes. Take more feedback. Issue another patch. Until it goes live. ESO live is and always has been kind of an advertising thing to sell the latest update or DLC etc. Its simply not long enough to deal with this kind of thing.
ZOS does not make changes based on our feedback. They announce a change, and sometimes put up a feedback thread about it. They make one post in said thread thanking us for our feedback. Then completely ignoring player feedback they implement whatever they want, however they want.
Then why did they create those feedback threads? I think they do listen to a lot of feedback. Some things tho the players want is not healthy for the game over all. Poll your kids and ask them if they want to eat vegetables or cookies. I bet most will pick the cookies. Then you serve veggies to them and they claim you ignored their feedback on dinner.
Here is some indisputable proof that ZOS completely ignores feedback, and implements whatever they hell they want.
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
That anology is plain insulting. We are not children, and a good number of us have been playing MMOs longer than ZOS has been a company. When 87% of over 4,000 people tell you not to do something, and you do it anyway, you don't listen to feedback. We speak from experience, because we have seen other companies implement some of the same things that completely their game.
They already explained why they cannot remove AOE caps. He talked about it on the forums and on ESO live. They heard your feedback you just didnt like the answer they gave. Same as the kid who doesnt understand why you cant eat cookies for dinner.
Wrobel has not once said why AOE caps were put in the game, (that poll was from before they were implemented) or why they won't remove them. The only thing ZOS will say on the issue is "there are no plans to remove them", and "we added this new ability or item set that should break up those ball groups".
He explains starting at 9:30https://youtu.be/bKu7GnANIO8?t=9m29s
No he doesn't there is no explanation anywhere in that ESO Live. He completely talks around the subject for about 15 minutes.
lol he very clearly explains why it affects more than just PVP. He went on about it in detail. Explains why they came to this solution. You might not like the answer he gave but dont say he danced around anything. Hes VERY clear.
"Because PvE" is not a valid explanation for why AOE caps won't be removed. The community has come up with multiple easy to implement solutions that keep TTK the same without destroying PvP gameplay. Until ZOS goes into explicit technical detail on every limitation or issue they would experience with removing AOE caps, and has a back and forth discussion on it, they have not given a valid explanation. ZOS still refuses to admit why AOE caps were implemented in the first place, and their implementation had nothing to do with PvE.
Thats not what he said. He explained as well as he could to a general audience how and why they came to the decision they did. Anyways I can tell no matter what he says besides aoe caps have been removed would not be acceptable to you. So really no sense in discussing it anymore.
See, that is an attitude and unfortunately one Zenimax shares with you. Are you sure you are not one of them in disguise? XD
They too believe that being transparent about the reasoning behind some of their most controversial decisions will not help calm things down. That leads them to thinking having healthy discussions with the community is impossible, pretty much like you are doing right now by saying 'no sense in discussing it anymore' . That in turn leads to a large portion of the community feeling their feedback is completely ignored.
No sense in me and that other guy discussing it anymore. AOE caps were discussed already at length. They took the feedback made their decision. They explained their reasoning in a forum post and in a 10 minute block of the ESO live. So for that particular issue its been decided. If the discussion is the devs explaining things and you screaming at them thats not exactly what they want to do.1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes - there's just too many to go through in this show without it turning into an all-nighter, and the team is still actively making changes.
You guys should just give Wrobel his own show every PTS cycle, The Wrobel special or something.
So we can all watch him dodge questions everytime? XD
It is an interesting idea, he might need body armor for it though.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes
That must be a joke!
Nobody wants to hear stuff we already know. We want Feedback to our Feedback to Skillchanges etc.
Until those changes are finalized what can he say about it? They are still gathering data.
You must be new to the game. It is like this every large patch with ZoS promising they will eventually address our concerns, that they are listening and watching the forums and yet, guess how many times our concerns are really addressed?
I remember a year back @Wrobel promised to come to the show and discuss the issues with sorcerers, he also promised to discuss with players here in the forum... It never really happened and it never will. ESO Live consists of them going over topics everyone has heard about at least 3 times before, explaining some changes that anyone capable of reading should be able to understand from the patch notes and more importantly, it consists of the team ignoring every hard question asked in the chat or here in the forum.
Im not new Ive been here since the first day. Heck before the first day I was in one of the last betas too. I still think the best avenue for feedback is via the official feedback threads and not a live Q&A where they cant reserach the answers to the questions. Or are not allowed to talk about them just yet.
Heh, they never answer to their feedback pages either. Sorcerer's official feedback already has over 20 pages of comments and yet @Wrobel went and made a post in an unofficial post. That is how much they pay attention to their own feedback section.
The feedback threads are not a back and forth. You leave feedback and they review it.
Precisely why we would want them to address those concerns in ESO Live. Because they never ever address concerns in the forum. Not really.
ESO live is not a forum for that either. They take your feedback. Make changes based on it. put out the PTS patch notes. Take more feedback. Issue another patch. Until it goes live. ESO live is and always has been kind of an advertising thing to sell the latest update or DLC etc. Its simply not long enough to deal with this kind of thing.
ZOS does not make changes based on our feedback. They announce a change, and sometimes put up a feedback thread about it. They make one post in said thread thanking us for our feedback. Then completely ignoring player feedback they implement whatever they want, however they want.
Then why did they create those feedback threads? I think they do listen to a lot of feedback. Some things tho the players want is not healthy for the game over all. Poll your kids and ask them if they want to eat vegetables or cookies. I bet most will pick the cookies. Then you serve veggies to them and they claim you ignored their feedback on dinner.
Here is some indisputable proof that ZOS completely ignores feedback, and implements whatever they hell they want.
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
That anology is plain insulting. We are not children, and a good number of us have been playing MMOs longer than ZOS has been a company. When 87% of over 4,000 people tell you not to do something, and you do it anyway, you don't listen to feedback. We speak from experience, because we have seen other companies implement some of the same things that completely their game.
They already explained why they cannot remove AOE caps. He talked about it on the forums and on ESO live. They heard your feedback you just didnt like the answer they gave. Same as the kid who doesnt understand why you cant eat cookies for dinner.
Wrobel has not once said why AOE caps were put in the game, (that poll was from before they were implemented) or why they won't remove them. The only thing ZOS will say on the issue is "there are no plans to remove them", and "we added this new ability or item set that should break up those ball groups".
He explains starting at 9:30https://youtu.be/bKu7GnANIO8?t=9m29s
No he doesn't there is no explanation anywhere in that ESO Live. He completely talks around the subject for about 15 minutes.
lol he very clearly explains why it affects more than just PVP. He went on about it in detail. Explains why they came to this solution. You might not like the answer he gave but dont say he danced around anything. Hes VERY clear.
"Because PvE" is not a valid explanation for why AOE caps won't be removed. The community has come up with multiple easy to implement solutions that keep TTK the same without destroying PvP gameplay. Until ZOS goes into explicit technical detail on every limitation or issue they would experience with removing AOE caps, and has a back and forth discussion on it, they have not given a valid explanation. ZOS still refuses to admit why AOE caps were implemented in the first place, and their implementation had nothing to do with PvE.
Thats not what he said. He explained as well as he could to a general audience how and why they came to the decision they did. Anyways I can tell no matter what he says besides aoe caps have been removed would not be acceptable to you. So really no sense in discussing it anymore.
See, that is an attitude and unfortunately one Zenimax shares with you. Are you sure you are not one of them in disguise? XD
They too believe that being transparent about the reasoning behind some of their most controversial decisions will not help calm things down. That leads them to thinking having healthy discussions with the community is impossible, pretty much like you are doing right now by saying 'no sense in discussing it anymore' . That in turn leads to a large portion of the community feeling their feedback is completely ignored.
No sense in me and that other guy discussing it anymore. AOE caps were discussed already at length. They took the feedback made their decision. They explained their reasoning in a forum post and in a 10 minute block of the ESO live. So for that particular issue its been decided. If the discussion is the devs explaining things and you screaming at them thats not exactly what they want to do.
Who is screaming? I believe we are being very calm and polite, even if persistent on our own arguments. The only one having a bit of a temper fit and telling anyone that will disagree and argue back that 'discussing is pointless' is you, actually.
I happen to agree with AoE caps as AoE Zergs are only a demonstration of numbers, it is hardly a demonstration of strategy and strategy should be a greater element of PvP. On top of that AoE Zergs are unhealthy for the server and cause some of the highest recorded lag spikes in the game because of particle rendering. I applaud Zenimax's attempts to try and discourage that particular play style, but I have to say, they are not transparent enough when declaring their reasoning.Edited by Grao on 6 May 2016 16:582 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes - there's just too many to go through in this show without it turning into an all-nighter, and the team is still actively making changes.
You guys should just give Wrobel his own show every PTS cycle, The Wrobel special or something.
So we can all watch him dodge questions everytime? XD
It is an interesting idea, he might need body armor for it though.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Eric will not be discussing ability changes
That must be a joke!
Nobody wants to hear stuff we already know. We want Feedback to our Feedback to Skillchanges etc.
Until those changes are finalized what can he say about it? They are still gathering data.
You must be new to the game. It is like this every large patch with ZoS promising they will eventually address our concerns, that they are listening and watching the forums and yet, guess how many times our concerns are really addressed?
I remember a year back @Wrobel promised to come to the show and discuss the issues with sorcerers, he also promised to discuss with players here in the forum... It never really happened and it never will. ESO Live consists of them going over topics everyone has heard about at least 3 times before, explaining some changes that anyone capable of reading should be able to understand from the patch notes and more importantly, it consists of the team ignoring every hard question asked in the chat or here in the forum.
Im not new Ive been here since the first day. Heck before the first day I was in one of the last betas too. I still think the best avenue for feedback is via the official feedback threads and not a live Q&A where they cant reserach the answers to the questions. Or are not allowed to talk about them just yet.
Heh, they never answer to their feedback pages either. Sorcerer's official feedback already has over 20 pages of comments and yet @Wrobel went and made a post in an unofficial post. That is how much they pay attention to their own feedback section.
The feedback threads are not a back and forth. You leave feedback and they review it.
Precisely why we would want them to address those concerns in ESO Live. Because they never ever address concerns in the forum. Not really.
ESO live is not a forum for that either. They take your feedback. Make changes based on it. put out the PTS patch notes. Take more feedback. Issue another patch. Until it goes live. ESO live is and always has been kind of an advertising thing to sell the latest update or DLC etc. Its simply not long enough to deal with this kind of thing.
ZOS does not make changes based on our feedback. They announce a change, and sometimes put up a feedback thread about it. They make one post in said thread thanking us for our feedback. Then completely ignoring player feedback they implement whatever they want, however they want.
Then why did they create those feedback threads? I think they do listen to a lot of feedback. Some things tho the players want is not healthy for the game over all. Poll your kids and ask them if they want to eat vegetables or cookies. I bet most will pick the cookies. Then you serve veggies to them and they claim you ignored their feedback on dinner.
Here is some indisputable proof that ZOS completely ignores feedback, and implements whatever they hell they want.
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
That anology is plain insulting. We are not children, and a good number of us have been playing MMOs longer than ZOS has been a company. When 87% of over 4,000 people tell you not to do something, and you do it anyway, you don't listen to feedback. We speak from experience, because we have seen other companies implement some of the same things that completely their game.
They already explained why they cannot remove AOE caps. He talked about it on the forums and on ESO live. They heard your feedback you just didnt like the answer they gave. Same as the kid who doesnt understand why you cant eat cookies for dinner.
Wrobel has not once said why AOE caps were put in the game, (that poll was from before they were implemented) or why they won't remove them. The only thing ZOS will say on the issue is "there are no plans to remove them", and "we added this new ability or item set that should break up those ball groups".
He explains starting at 9:30https://youtu.be/bKu7GnANIO8?t=9m29s
No he doesn't there is no explanation anywhere in that ESO Live. He completely talks around the subject for about 15 minutes.
lol he very clearly explains why it affects more than just PVP. He went on about it in detail. Explains why they came to this solution. You might not like the answer he gave but dont say he danced around anything. Hes VERY clear.
"Because PvE" is not a valid explanation for why AOE caps won't be removed. The community has come up with multiple easy to implement solutions that keep TTK the same without destroying PvP gameplay. Until ZOS goes into explicit technical detail on every limitation or issue they would experience with removing AOE caps, and has a back and forth discussion on it, they have not given a valid explanation. ZOS still refuses to admit why AOE caps were implemented in the first place, and their implementation had nothing to do with PvE.
Thats not what he said. He explained as well as he could to a general audience how and why they came to the decision they did. Anyways I can tell no matter what he says besides aoe caps have been removed would not be acceptable to you. So really no sense in discussing it anymore.
See, that is an attitude and unfortunately one Zenimax shares with you. Are you sure you are not one of them in disguise? XD
They too believe that being transparent about the reasoning behind some of their most controversial decisions will not help calm things down. That leads them to thinking having healthy discussions with the community is impossible, pretty much like you are doing right now by saying 'no sense in discussing it anymore' . That in turn leads to a large portion of the community feeling their feedback is completely ignored.
No sense in me and that other guy discussing it anymore. AOE caps were discussed already at length. They took the feedback made their decision. They explained their reasoning in a forum post and in a 10 minute block of the ESO live. So for that particular issue its been decided. If the discussion is the devs explaining things and you screaming at them thats not exactly what they want to do.
There was never a discussion about AOE caps (discussions require both parties to communicate back and forth). They obviously ignored our feedback when implementing them. There was never an explanation. No one is screaming at ZOS.2 -
boundsy88✭✭✭we wanna know when is the game gonna go past the Bind on Pickup era? the market of this game has been absolutely brutal on pve players since the IC update. i know the updated gear from the trials is nice, but the rest of the maelstrom sets, vICP, vWGT and the orsinium daily stuff has to be brought out of the BOP era.
i literally had to spend a day thinking of how the hell i was gonna make some money. unless u pvp or farm stuff all day, which isnt overly efficient anymore since nothing farmable is going for much anymore, your not gonna make much gold.
also i would like to see some decreases in respec costs, just to switch from a pve build to a pvp build i have to pay 3000 gold every time, then pay it again when im finished with it which is rather ridiculous.
Really? There are so many ways to make gold in this game...
i was referring more to making gold while doing the content kind of thing. yes there are ways of making gold, but u have to focus purely on making gold and farming stuff. i was talking about wanting to be able to sell stuff we get from doing content and moving past the bind on pickup, which is on almost all the pve content the game has to offer. at least the stuff worth anything right now1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭we wanna know when is the game gonna go past the Bind on Pickup era? the market of this game has been absolutely brutal on pve players since the IC update. i know the updated gear from the trials is nice, but the rest of the maelstrom sets, vICP, vWGT and the orsinium daily stuff has to be brought out of the BOP era.
i literally had to spend a day thinking of how the hell i was gonna make some money. unless u pvp or farm stuff all day, which isnt overly efficient anymore since nothing farmable is going for much anymore, your not gonna make much gold.
also i would like to see some decreases in respec costs, just to switch from a pve build to a pvp build i have to pay 3000 gold every time, then pay it again when im finished with it which is rather ridiculous.
Really? There are so many ways to make gold in this game...
i was referring more to making gold while doing the content kind of thing. yes there are ways of making gold, but u have to focus purely on making gold and farming stuff. i was talking about wanting to be able to sell stuff we get from doing content and moving past the bind on pickup, which is on almost all the pve content the game has to offer. at least the stuff worth anything right now
Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, the only way to make a significant amount of gold by doing content is getting one of the rare BoE items from raids and selling them. On the other hand it is easy enough to buy low level raw materials, prospect them and sell improvement materials... That is the best way to make gold in ESO.Edited by Grao on 6 May 2016 17:050 -
Zaldan✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »What I'd love to hear.
"We've heard players loud and clear. Craglorn is currently a hot mess. We've started the process of breathing life back into this zone with DB and the new level cap version of Sanctum Ophidia. In a soon to be released update, we'll be upgrading the entire zone to our current scaled model similar to Hew's Bane and Orsinium. We've also reversed our very poor decision to have all mobs in that zone award near 0 xp. You'll now receive standardized xp from mobs in Craglorn! In addition, we also realized that awarding v11 rewards in a v12 zone and v13 awards in a v14 zone was a poor decision. Those rewards will now scale to your level! As well, all new and revamped daily quests with new exciting rewards have been added!
Finally, we're scaling Aetherian Archive, Hel-Ra Citadel and Dragonstar Arena to the current level cap! And all the rewards from those trials will also scale to level cap! Yes, that means v16 Warlock, Healer, Footman and more!"
keep dreaming
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Magnys✭✭While the DB DLC is going to be pretty cool (i hope)....I want to hear more about the latest datamining that shows VVARDENFELL.....tamrielfoundry.com/2016/05/datamining-vvardenfell/To be the man you have to beat the man.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While the DB DLC is going to be pretty cool (i hope)....I want to hear more about the latest datamining that shows VVARDENFELL.....tamrielfoundry.com/2016/05/datamining-vvardenfell/
I am wondering if anyone has lost their job due to that leak. While ZOS does release some teasers, this went far beyond what they normally let sneak out. My followup thought is whether new policies will be put in place so it does not happen again.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »While the DB DLC is going to be pretty cool (i hope)....I want to hear more about the latest datamining that shows VVARDENFELL.....tamrielfoundry.com/2016/05/datamining-vvardenfell/
I am wondering if anyone has lost their job due to that leak. While ZOS does release some teasers, this went far beyond what they normally let sneak out. My followup thought is whether new policies will be put in place so it does not happen again.
There wasn't a leak. It's extremely common for MMO developers to front load assets for new areas as they finish them to reduce download size when the new things are released. These data miners use programs to comb though every line of code that gets put into the PTS and live game. For example in WoW almost every single armor set that gets added to the game is actually put in the patch before it's released. Some of them will get stat tweaks before they are made available, but data miners can see exactly what these sets look like, and what stats they currently have at least one patch in advance.0 -
daswahnsinn✭✭✭No troll, I wanna see 'we fixed everything wrong with the game, we made a new game called ESO2 which is currently in beta.'| | daswahnsinn | Vet 16 Nord Dragon Knight | Bow/Dual Wield/Two-Handed Sword| DPS | | Warrior of the EbonHeart Pact | |1 -
SantieClaws✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread - Khajiit feels it is spicy.
This one will fetch the soothing cucumbers.
Yours with paws
Santie ClawsShunrr's Skooma Oasis - The Movie. A housing video like no other ...
Find it here - https://youtube.com/user/wenxue2222
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PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
https://www.imperialtradingcompany.eu/2 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The ESO live wasn't that bad though I did wish some class balances were discussed but we'll have to wait for the 20th of may to attack @Wrobel Muhahahaha
不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
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PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell0 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »No, the rest of you have rolled over.
If ZOS actually played their game (Matt Firor says he plays the PvP here but no way the director plays this and is happy or okay with how it turned out)
AoE caps won't be taken away because they don't want to admit they're wrong. Meanwhile more and more AoE bandaid fixes are thrown into the game. Interesting.
That right there is a logical fallacy. Every time they fix something in a patch, they admit they were wrong by the very act of changing something. Even in recent memory they admit they were wrong about several things. If they don't want to remove AoE caps, you can be certain it has absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to admit being wrong.0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »No, the rest of you have rolled over.
If ZOS actually played their game (Matt Firor says he plays the PvP here but no way the director plays this and is happy or okay with how it turned out)
AoE caps won't be taken away because they don't want to admit they're wrong. Meanwhile more and more AoE bandaid fixes are thrown into the game. Interesting.
That right there is a logical fallacy. Every time they fix something in a patch, they admit they were wrong by the very act of changing something. Even in recent memory they admit they were wrong about several things. If they don't want to remove AoE caps, you can be certain it has absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to admit being wrong.
Strawman argument. We're talking about AoE caps not patches. You're trying to link two separate things to make your argument for them right. Nice try though.1 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not a strawman argument, it goes directly to the point. It proves that ZOS doesn't care about being proven right or wrong in any instance because they are constantly admitting to themselves and to us by changing what they originally implemented, an act that shows they knew something was wrong and decided to fix it. Nice try though.2 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »Not a strawman argument, it goes directly to the point. It proves that ZOS doesn't care about being proven right or wrong in any instance because they are constantly admitting to themselves and to us by changing what they originally implemented, an act that shows they knew something was wrong and decided to fix it. Nice try though.
Patches are always going to be a thing Brodo Baggins and have nothing to do with what I said about AoE caps.
Instituting a change that has drastically changed the way the game plays in a negative way and then blatantly pretending it's not an issue in PvP is refusing to admit something is wrong.
The proof is in the pudding and you pretend to see otherwise.Edited by WalkingLegacy on 6 May 2016 22:112 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭Patches are always going to be a thing because companies realize that the original vision of their implementation needs correcting, de facto admitting that their design was wrong and needed to be change. Instituting a change that drastically changes the way the game plays is called a philosophical design decision. Whether you see it is a negative or positive is entirely subjective.
Let's flip the script and see you definitively prove that they are refusing to admit being wrong. I have given a completely sound argument that shows that they indeed have zero reason to not admit being wrong when they do it de facto by making changes to their game regularly.
The proof is in the pudding and you pretend to see otherwise.0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »Patches are always going to be a thing because companies realize that the original vision of their implementation needs correcting, de facto admitting that their design was wrong and needed to be change. Instituting a change that drastically changes the way the game plays is called a philosophical design decision. Whether you see it is a negative or positive is entirely subjective.
Let's flip the script and see you definitively prove that they are refusing to admit being wrong. I have given a completely sound argument that shows that they indeed have zero reason to not admit being wrong when they do it de facto by making changes to their game regularly.
The proof is in the pudding and you pretend to see otherwise.
Patches go beyond vision correcting. Bugs get into the best of programming. Patches are for many things. Patches can ADD content. Change it, remove it. Etc etc
Dude quit talking about patches anyways. You're moving our discussion from the issue which is probably your intent.2 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭dimensional wrote: »Not a strawman argument, it goes directly to the point. It proves that ZOS doesn't care about being proven right or wrong in any instance because they are constantly admitting to themselves and to us by changing what they originally implemented, an act that shows they knew something was wrong and decided to fix it. Nice try though.
There is a huge difference between implementing patches to tweak skills, and admitting you were wrong to implement a game changing mechanic. Especially when that game changing mechanic has had a huge negative impact on the game for nearly two years, and 87% of your community asked you not to do it, and predicted with 100% accuracy what the results would be. Your comparison is akin to comparing stealing a pen from a co-worker and robing a bank.2 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, it is not the comparison between patches and design changes that is even important in the argument. It's drawing a very obvious conclusion that ZOS has zero incentive to not admit being wrong when they do so on a monthly basis. To fail to see that is being deliberately obtuse.0 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »dimensional wrote: »Patches are always going to be a thing because companies realize that the original vision of their implementation needs correcting, de facto admitting that their design was wrong and needed to be change. Instituting a change that drastically changes the way the game plays is called a philosophical design decision. Whether you see it is a negative or positive is entirely subjective.
Let's flip the script and see you definitively prove that they are refusing to admit being wrong. I have given a completely sound argument that shows that they indeed have zero reason to not admit being wrong when they do it de facto by making changes to their game regularly.
The proof is in the pudding and you pretend to see otherwise.
Patches go beyond vision correcting. Bugs get into the best of programming. Patches are for many things. Patches can ADD content. Change it, remove it. Etc etc
Dude quit talking about patches anyways. You're moving our discussion from the issue which is probably your intent.
Yes, and I was obviously referring to the vision correcting aspect of patching and none of those other aspects. Talking about patches is completely relevant to the issue because "anything" added to the game can be considered a patch. Failing to see why ZOS has zero interest in not admitting to being wrong is your issue here.0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »dimensional wrote: »Patches are always going to be a thing because companies realize that the original vision of their implementation needs correcting, de facto admitting that their design was wrong and needed to be change. Instituting a change that drastically changes the way the game plays is called a philosophical design decision. Whether you see it is a negative or positive is entirely subjective.
Let's flip the script and see you definitively prove that they are refusing to admit being wrong. I have given a completely sound argument that shows that they indeed have zero reason to not admit being wrong when they do it de facto by making changes to their game regularly.
The proof is in the pudding and you pretend to see otherwise.
Patches go beyond vision correcting. Bugs get into the best of programming. Patches are for many things. Patches can ADD content. Change it, remove it. Etc etc
Dude quit talking about patches anyways. You're moving our discussion from the issue which is probably your intent.
Yes, and I was obviously referring to the vision correcting aspect of patching and none of those other aspects. Talking about patches is completely relevant to the issue because "anything" added to the game can be considered a patch. Failing to see why ZOS has zero interest in not admitting to being wrong is your issue here.
1 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »dimensional wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »dimensional wrote: »Patches are always going to be a thing because companies realize that the original vision of their implementation needs correcting, de facto admitting that their design was wrong and needed to be change. Instituting a change that drastically changes the way the game plays is called a philosophical design decision. Whether you see it is a negative or positive is entirely subjective.
Let's flip the script and see you definitively prove that they are refusing to admit being wrong. I have given a completely sound argument that shows that they indeed have zero reason to not admit being wrong when they do it de facto by making changes to their game regularly.
The proof is in the pudding and you pretend to see otherwise.
Patches go beyond vision correcting. Bugs get into the best of programming. Patches are for many things. Patches can ADD content. Change it, remove it. Etc etc
Dude quit talking about patches anyways. You're moving our discussion from the issue which is probably your intent.
Yes, and I was obviously referring to the vision correcting aspect of patching and none of those other aspects. Talking about patches is completely relevant to the issue because "anything" added to the game can be considered a patch. Failing to see why ZOS has zero interest in not admitting to being wrong is your issue here.
1 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭dimensional wrote: »No, it is not the comparison between patches and design changes that is even important in the argument. It's drawing a very obvious conclusion that ZOS has zero incentive to not admit being wrong when they do so on a monthly basis. To fail to see that is being deliberately obtuse.
With this kind of logic you have to be a politician.
1