Stamina Sorcerer Feedback Thread: Patch 2.4.3 Update - Crit surge now affected by Battle Spirit

RoyJade · May 2016

Garwulf wrote: »

By its name, Sorcerer, the concept of a Stamina Sorcerer is as silly as a Wire netting Canoe.
A Stamina based Magic user is not a sorcerer. It is another class entirely. Not so with the other 3 classes in this game. However personally, I dislike the fixed classes in this game. It is definitely not an Elderscrolls Game because of it. Just another game set in the Elder Scroll 'Universe'.

Look at what "sorcerer" means in the lore and in other TES games. They aren't just spellcaster, they are mage who use melee armor and sword, using conjuration to summon allies and weapons. Stamsorc should be that type of warrior.

Remember that classes in ESO are not classes. They are magic school, and you can do a lot of think with these schools. Dk for example are based on draconic and earth power, but they can use draconic force to hit their enemies (stamDK), the fire of the dragon to consume their foes (magDK), both the heavy-blinded scales of dragons and the high resistance of earth to survive (tank) or the power of earth and revitalizing fire to heal (heal). And you can do the same for every classes. You can do a magsorc and you can think that their way, but we can play what we want with our magic abilities, even if it means boosting our strength and hitting our foes with weapons.

CP5 · May 2016

Garwulf wrote: »

By its name, Sorcerer, the concept of a Stamina Sorcerer is as silly as a Wire netting Canoe.
A Stamina based Magic user is not a sorcerer. It is another class entirely. Not so with the other 3 classes in this game. However personally, I dislike the fixed classes in this game. It is definitely not an Elderscrolls Game because of it. Just another game set in the Elder Scroll 'Universe'.

I know Ahzek already suggested an answer to this reply, but I can't resist.In all past Elder Scrolls games (even Skyrim where npc's still had classes), sorcerers have ALWAYS had skill in heavy armor, very frequently had skill in many different weapons (in the first 2 games where weapon choice was restricted, sorcerers could use all of them), and always had lower magicka regen than other classes (either by not having the attribute to regen or by not being able to regen at all). Sorcerer's are a heavy armor, weapon using, magicka absorbing battle mage in this game universe. If you want more examples feel free to check out the UESP's descriptions of the classes.

Birdovic · May 2016

I think a reason people are angry about this from time to time is simply because they imagine it in a different way..

Like:
- Old Man in light, not protective clothes
- Long beard
- Wise old person with a Magic Wand

This is one of the reasons I like TES so much, its simply different, not trying to be just what People are used to: Stereotypes.

The above described Sorcerer is exactly that, a Stereotype.
This is TES, and not Lord of the Rings or whatever guys

runagate · May 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

I think from time I Like:

- Old Man in light, not protective clothes
- Long beard
- Wise old person with a Magic Wand

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

It belatedly occurs to me that the allocation of what I'm surprised to learn the devs call "stars" and we call perks or passives from CP would have worked a lot better if it were parceled out into:

physical damage [2] magic damage [3] poison and elemental damage [4] disease and healing debuff and DoT damage

Tyrannitar · May 2016

It honestly just seems like ZoS doesn't want stam sorcs to be a thing.... Every other class keeps getting buffed and we keep getting nerfed.

Are they trying to push Feng away or the whole entirety of the class? Because the latter's what's happening.

Birdovic · May 2016

runagate wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

I think from time I Like:

- Old Man in light, not protective clothes
- Long beard
- Wise old person with a Magic Wand

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

It belatedly occurs to me that the allocation of what I'm surprised to learn the devs call "stars" and we call perks or passives from CP would have worked a lot better if it were parceled out into:
physical damage [2] magic damage [3] poison and elemental damage [4] disease and healing debuff and DoT damage

Sorry but I think you falsely quoted me there o.o?

@Tyrannitar

I feel the same. Although they said they will work on Stam Sorc, sometime in March 2015 lol.

Sparky617 · May 2016

Daymond wrote: »

Unfortunately due the Champion Point system, Stam Sorc can't be lighting based. If they were we would be doing 25% less damage than every other class with our class abilities. This is the same reason Stam Dragonknights, and Nightblades were changed to do poison, and disease damage, respectively. Wind abilities actually fit the Stom Calling tree very well, (hurricanes and tornadoes being wind storms) and ZOS could come up with some really cool abilities with this new wind theme for Stam.

Exactly, Stam Sorc should have that Wind/Physical theme. To be honest. I'd like to see some kind of Frost augmentation for CC made to the stam sorc skill morphs...

Spearblade · May 2016

This thread really needs a response from ZOS.

runagate · May 2016

There certainly should be some viable way to make an ice-spec character in ESO! It would work great if for some reason ice got the bonus from mighty, but it does not, so changing from lighting to ice would have no effect.

Which is too bad, as the snare and shield (from heavy attack with a frost destroy) and CC from clench work great for stamina melee characters - holding the enemies still a little bit better to whack on them.

Mettaricana · May 2016

By next dlc whatever it is if stam sorc doesn't get love I mean significant love I'm deleting my sorc and saying screw it the class doesnt exsist in my eyes.

PainfulFAFA · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

By next dlc whatever it is if stam sorc doesn't get love I mean significant love I'm deleting my sorc and saying screw it the class doesnt exsist in my eyes.

Only reason I play it is because its the only challenge left in PvP for me.
Stamplar, Stam DK, Stam NB are just too easy.

Dyride · May 2016

Well if anyone had any doubts there was an agenda against Sorcs or Stam Sorcs in particular, here you go from the PTS.

Basically, if you get 3k Crit resist then you ignore the normal crit damage multiplier, so expect to see anyone achieve this even if they are running only 3-4 Impen next patch.

Honestly, @Wrobel how do you think this works if Stam Sorcs don't have access to Major Mending or reliable Minor Force/Brutality/Berzerk?

Are we expected to rely on having Crit Surge, Shuffle, Rally, Vigor, Bone Shield and Hurricane all in one build?

Dyride · May 2016

Spearblade wrote: »

This thread really needs a response from ZOS.

Dude we have a long way to go and a high bar to overcome before we get any real attention. Thieve's Guild Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Birdovic · May 2016

Dyride wrote: »

Well if anyone had any doubts there was an agenda against Sorcs or Stam Sorcs in particular, here you go from the PTS.

Basically, if you get 3k Crit resist then you ignore the normal crit damage multiplier, so expect to see anyone achieve this even if they are running only 3-4 Impen next patch.

Honestly, @Wrobel how do you think this works if Stam Sorcs don't have access to Major Mending or reliable Minor Force/Brutality/Berzerk?

Are we expected to rely on having Crit Surge, Shuffle, Rally, Vigor, Bone Shield and Hurricane all in one build?

Woah what the hell? 10 times the duration...
Did you check for any other stealth changes to TG sets yet?

DDragon · May 2016

It's hard to make heard public outcry, when there's not much of a public. The number of stam sorcs is decreasing rapidly, faster and faster with each patch.

All players I asked, who are doing decent dps on stamina in PvE, said that sorc is not a viable class to play on stamina (25k dps glass roof, when content such as vMOL is for dpsers with 30k+). If this does not give people who are responsible for class abilities and balance a fair hint, I dont think anything will.

Anyway...
FIX STAMINA SORCERERS!! MAKE THEM A SERIOUS OPTION IN PVE!

And btw, with camuflaged hunter all stamina classes will have berserker provided they crounch all the time (it works suprisingly well in PvE), so I don't think that there's a point in giving berserker to stam sorcs.

Voltos · May 2016

@Yolokin_Swagonborn

I LOVE this thread! Wonderfully presented and well-thought-out.

Here are my suggestions:

Crystal Spike (Crystal Shard morph) - Melee range, stamina attack. Instant cast. Deals physical damage and provides Empower.

Fist of Fury (Mage's Fury morph) - Melee range, stamina execute. Damage dealt bounces to 2 nearby enemies for a reduced amount. Deals physical damage.

Lightning Bolt (Bolt Escape morph) - Melee range, stamina gap closer. Deal's physical damage and Maim's the target and surrounding enemies for 8 seconds.

Reasoning:

1) Crystal Spike: As it stands, only 1 out of 4 passives can be utilized by a Stamsorc from the Dark Magic tree. This is a HUGE oversight. Turning one of the morphs of Crystal Shard into our class-based, stamina attack will provide some much needed utility, in the form of the passive Blood Magic, and group synergy with Exploitation.

2) Fist of Fury: Pretty self-explanatory. With this change, the Stamsorc will be less-reliant on the 2H Reverse Slash for an execute, and will be able to consider other weapon options. Also, will be able to take advantage of the Disintegrate passive.

3) Lightning Bolt: Same principle here as with Fist of Fury. The Ball of Lightning morph for Bolt Escape has become essentially useless, except for the opportunity to turn it into a class-based gap closer. This, above all other suggestions, will provide the greatest opportunity for build diversity. Here, choosing between Streak and Lightning Bolt, will allow the Stamsorc to customize their build based on their play-style.

Thal · May 2016

Here's to hoping next week's PTS update has something a little more interesting for Stam Sorcs - really enjoy playing the class, but it's rather quickly been relegated to daily world boss duty just for fun.

I'd be perfectly happy with some synergies that enhance PvE DPS honestly - perhaps giving access to Major/Minor Force from a passive or ability that plays into crit surge and makes the class even more spiky. The crit theme just doesn't work well in PvP... I find myself targeting an NPC in Imperial City often with a crit charge just to burst heal and then zip back in

With the homogenization of shields this update, I feel as though the identity of Sorcs (both mag and stam) as a whole has been lost to a high degree. The abilities and passives of the class as a whole need a rework similar to how Templar was treated in TG - I've been critical of ZoS at times, but they truly hit the mark on making Templar an enjoyable class that can be played stam/mag and feels synergistic.

Mettaricana · May 2016

I still feel bound weapins would be a more viable cinpared to the lame armaments. Give the minor 10% dmg buff or empower or make it a toggle perma cast like the pets once active give a passive 8% stamina and give a passive 8% weapon dmg.

Allow a skills to work on off bars rather than double slotting everything this alone would open up stam sorcs to a new level of awesome

Dyride · May 2016

Bound Armaments:

Draw on the power of the Daedra to increase your Max stam by 8%, increase heavy attack damage by 14% and summon a spectral weapon for 12 secs.
Spectral Weapon performs physical attacks dealing x,xxx every 2 secs. After 4 hits from spectral weapon on a target, your heavy attacks are Empowered against that target.

Erock25 · May 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You missed the portion of the patch notes where you introduce something for stamina sorc.

Yeah I'm thinking we might have missed a post or reply somewhere about it? Could we get linked to an update if so? @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

The team was mainly focusing on making some improvements to the item sets this go around, but are looking at making some additional adjustments for Sorcerers (even stam sorcs) in a future PTS incremental.

PainfulFAFA · May 2016

I was very happy to see Gina mention stam sorcs getting some love in future PTS!!
I just hope they make BIG changes to things such as passives and tweak some abilities around such as Bound Armaments, Hurricane, Overload, and such.
Looking forward to seeing what these changes are

Birdovic · May 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

I was very happy to see Gina mention stam sorcs getting some love in future PTS!!
I just hope they make BIG changes to things such as passives and tweak some abilities around such as Bound Armaments, Hurricane, Overload, and such.
Looking forward to seeing what these changes are

Thats what I dont get.
If they just changed Bound Armaments to work like Magelight and added an active Ability...this has sooo much potential.
The Passives are great, but nobody can afford 2 Slots just for the passives, so:

1) We have Bound Armament Passives active (higher Heavy Attack Damage + max Stamina!)
2) We have the Sorc Passive (20% more Healthrec and Staminarec!)

(My Suggestion)
3) "Activating this Ability gives the User a 20 seconds lasting Aura, which grants Major Expedition for the first 6 seconds.
If you hit enemies with 4 light or Heavy attacks while the Aura is active, you gain Thunderbolt/Poisonbolt, which deals X Dmg, knocking down your opponent"
-> "Grim Focus for Stam Sorc"

Would also work great paired with Hurricane (which doesnt add a Major Expedition...)

Tyrannitar · May 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You missed the portion of the patch notes where you introduce something for stamina sorc.

Yeah I'm thinking we might have missed a post or reply somewhere about it? Could we get linked to an update if so? @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

The team was mainly focusing on making some improvements to the item sets this go around, but are looking at making some additional adjustments for Sorcerers (even stam sorcs) in a future PTS incremental.

PAARTY PARTY PARTY

https://youtube.com/watch?v=NxO-RnxKMVU

Thal · May 2016

I'll reserve the partying until next Monday

Emma_Overload · May 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Well if anyone had any doubts there was an agenda against Sorcs or Stam Sorcs in particular, here you go from the PTS.

Basically, if you get 3k Crit resist then you ignore the normal crit damage multiplier, so expect to see anyone achieve this even if they are running only 3-4 Impen next patch.

Honestly, @Wrobel how do you think this works if Stam Sorcs don't have access to Major Mending or reliable Minor Force/Brutality/Berzerk?

Are we expected to rely on having Crit Surge, Shuffle, Rally, Vigor, Bone Shield and Hurricane all in one build?

Woah what the hell? 10 times the duration...
Did you check for any other stealth changes to TG sets yet?

The old buff was pitiful, though. Who wants to waste a set piece bonus on a buff that lasts 1 second?

Birdovic · May 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Well if anyone had any doubts there was an agenda against Sorcs or Stam Sorcs in particular, here you go from the PTS.

Basically, if you get 3k Crit resist then you ignore the normal crit damage multiplier, so expect to see anyone achieve this even if they are running only 3-4 Impen next patch.

Honestly, @Wrobel how do you think this works if Stam Sorcs don't have access to Major Mending or reliable Minor Force/Brutality/Berzerk?

Are we expected to rely on having Crit Surge, Shuffle, Rally, Vigor, Bone Shield and Hurricane all in one build?

Woah what the hell? 10 times the duration...
Did you check for any other stealth changes to TG sets yet?

The old buff was pitiful, though. Who wants to waste a set piece bonus on a buff that lasts 1 second?

Rapid Regen Spam (which happens anyway) will refresh that 2sec Crit Resist buff nonstop. I dont see much reason of changing this, really.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

YES YES YES
Something like that! A chance/proc to conjure a weapon(s). If it could so shock damage, even better!
Or maybe instead of a skill, they can tweak some of the ineffective passives like Rebate, Energized, Exploitation, Expert Summoner into something useful like procing a Conjure Weapon(s) that stack up to 3 times (3 weapons). Something like that more or less.

I don't really like the idea of Chance % to proc skills. RNGesus can be particularly cruel in this game. Why would an expert daedric summoner screw up summons a percentage of the time? How does this make the gameplay better. Proccing c-frags as a magicka sorc is already gimicky enough. I am just looking for simple spammable damage at this point. Press the button, get a result.

Making it fancy has too much of a risk that what every gymnastics you have to do will be unfeasible in combat. I don't want something like NBs spectral bow where you have to activate the skill then nail like 7 light attacks in a row to use it. That is terrible and clunky. Press button, get result. Other classes have push-button damage. It's not a class identity, its just what works.

I agree with this. Not a big fan of rng stuff either.

Dyride · May 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Well if anyone had any doubts there was an agenda against Sorcs or Stam Sorcs in particular, here you go from the PTS.

Basically, if you get 3k Crit resist then you ignore the normal crit damage multiplier, so expect to see anyone achieve this even if they are running only 3-4 Impen next patch.

Honestly, @Wrobel how do you think this works if Stam Sorcs don't have access to Major Mending or reliable Minor Force/Brutality/Berzerk?

Are we expected to rely on having Crit Surge, Shuffle, Rally, Vigor, Bone Shield and Hurricane all in one build?

Woah what the hell? 10 times the duration...
Did you check for any other stealth changes to TG sets yet?

The old buff was pitiful, though. Who wants to waste a set piece bonus on a buff that lasts 1 second?

The old buff was 2 secs. Healing Springs could keep this up on any group that was trying. It will proc on Funnel Health as well, so a mag NB could have this up pretty often if that is part of their DPS rotation.

Ajax_22 · May 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You missed the portion of the patch notes where you introduce something for stamina sorc.

Yeah I'm thinking we might have missed a post or reply somewhere about it? Could we get linked to an update if so? @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

The team was mainly focusing on making some improvements to the item sets this go around, but are looking at making some additional adjustments for Sorcerers (even stam sorcs) in a future PTS incremental.

I got to talk to Wrobel a bit last week, and he said some Stam Sorc love was in the works for a future PTS patch. He also said he had read this thread, and there were a lot of good ideas in here. He also knows that Hurricane is extremely underwhelming, and it will be improved before Dark Brotherhood hits live. One of the buffs they are looking at, which I really liked, was adding Minor Expedition to Hurricane. With all the different ways you can get Major Expedition in this game I feel giving us Minor would make Stam Sorc mobility truly unique, and would synergize very well with builds using bows or some of the sets that give Major Expedition.

CP5 · May 2016

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You missed the portion of the patch notes where you introduce something for stamina sorc.

Yeah I'm thinking we might have missed a post or reply somewhere about it? Could we get linked to an update if so? @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

The team was mainly focusing on making some improvements to the item sets this go around, but are looking at making some additional adjustments for Sorcerers (even stam sorcs) in a future PTS incremental.

I got to talk to Wrobel a bit last week, and he said some Stam Sorc love was in the works for a future PTS patch. He also said he had read this thread, and there were a lot of good ideas in here. He also knows that Hurricane is extremely underwhelming, and it will be improved before Dark Brotherhood hits live. One of the buffs they are looking at, which I really liked, was adding Minor Expedition to Hurricane. With all the different ways you can get Major Expedition in this game I feel giving us Minor would make Stam Sorc mobility truly unique, and would synergize very well with builds using bows or some of the sets that give Major Expedition.

Alright, ZOS got back more interest, with luck that pts patch will be sooner rather than later. Want time to test whatever changes these are.