Stamina Sorcerer Feedback Thread: Patch 2.4.3 Update - Crit surge now affected by Battle Spirit

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

I like the idea of a bound weapon though, thematically it fits the class PERFECTLY with TES lore.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · April 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

YES YES YES
Something like that! A chance/proc to conjure a weapon(s). If it could so shock damage, even better!
Or maybe instead of a skill, they can tweak some of the ineffective passives like Rebate, Energized, Exploitation, Expert Summoner into something useful like procing a Conjure Weapon(s) that stack up to 3 times (3 weapons). Something like that more or less.

I don't really like the idea of Chance % to proc skills. RNGesus can be particularly cruel in this game. Why would an expert daedric summoner screw up summons a percentage of the time? How does this make the gameplay better. Proccing c-frags as a magicka sorc is already gimicky enough. I am just looking for simple spammable damage at this point. Press the button, get a result.

Making it fancy has too much of a risk that what every gymnastics you have to do will be unfeasible in combat. I don't want something like NBs spectral bow where you have to activate the skill then nail like 7 light attacks in a row to use it. That is terrible and clunky. Press button, get result. Other classes have push-button damage. It's not a class identity, its just what works.

PainfulFAFA · April 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

YES YES YES
Something like that! A chance/proc to conjure a weapon(s). If it could so shock damage, even better!
Or maybe instead of a skill, they can tweak some of the ineffective passives like Rebate, Energized, Exploitation, Expert Summoner into something useful like procing a Conjure Weapon(s) that stack up to 3 times (3 weapons). Something like that more or less.

I don't really like the idea of Chance % to proc skills. RNGesus can be particularly cruel in this game. Why would an expert daedric summoner screw up summons a percentage of the time? How does this make the gameplay better. Proccing c-frags as a magicka sorc is already gimicky enough. I am just looking for simple spammable damage at this point. Press the button, get a result.

Making it fancy has too much of a risk that what every gymnastics you have to do will be unfeasible in combat. I don't want something like NBs spectral bow where you have to activate the skill then nail like 7 light attacks in a row to use it. That is terrible and clunky. Press button, get result. Other classes have push-button damage. It's not a class identity, its just what works.

Ok yeah RNG can be unforgiving in this game.
But i totally like the idea of summoning/conjuring weapons that fight for you. There are many ways they can do that.
A direct damage ability (push-button damage) like you said. Theres Jabs, Whip, Surprise Att, the list go on. I get it.

But what about using it defensively?
For example, Bound Armaments summons weapons around you that attack enemies that deal damage to you.
OR
summons a harmful/daedric/poisonous aura around you that debuffs/drains/damages people who attack you/ are nearby you.

You get the idea.
and IF they did do these changes, how could passives like Expert Summoner/Rebate work with it, if at all.
I'm just throwing that out there to make overall sorc feel unique. If they feel like adding another push-button stamina damage ability so be it, i wont complain.

PainfulFAFA · April 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Looking at this list it is immediately clear which classes have the strongest stamina build and why. Now lets apply these four criteria to sorcerer:

Sorcerer (Current)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: NOTHING except Hurricane, which is a huge Utility Loss (see below)
2. Stam Support Utility: Nothing that returns stamina. Bound Armaments (takes two slots for 8% max stamina and paltry armor), Dark Deal (very hard to use in combat), Boundless Storm (mobility utility), Critical Surge
3. Passives that support stamina: unholy knowledge (5% stam cost reduction), Expert Mage - Increase spell/weapon damage 2% per sorc ability (Now outshadowed by 3% fighters guild passive) Daedric Protection
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING

I'm not going to get into all the reasons where I think you're incomplete here, though I understand where your concerns lay.

1. You are correct about Hurricane, although lets be realistic that if they gave Sorcerer a stam spammable it would also feed into their passive that boosts weapon and spell damage. I think was their concern in balancing such a thing. I think the class has some fundamental issues that ought to be dealt with though above and beyond this, a reorganization if you will. Toggles should not be a thing. You should be able to have pets on the back bar only, and still have them functional. They should not last forever, sorry I think that's stupid and I always have. Make them instant cast and last for 30-60 seconds, whatever is appropriate. Bound Armor should be the same way. There are thematic reasons why I feel this way as well as gameplay reasons. If they changed this, along with removing the notion of a third overload bar (to make up for the fact now that you wouldn't need to run so many toggles) I think it'd be easier for them to balance in some kind of mage fury/crystal frag type stam spam skill. Just my thought on the balance here.
2. In terms of utility, Bound Armaments also gives you bonus heavy attack damage and the armor bonus. Dark deal could be better I agree. Boundless storm is good, don't discount it. Bolt escape/Streak is freaking awesome, I love this skill and you didn't even list it for support. Critical Surge is iconic, although I will say they need to give it love. Hardened Ward could be useful, potentially. I've made my comments on this in the past, don't feel like going into it right now, but it would need changing.
3. You missed the regeneration passives, which is just a mistake. Sorcerer regen passives are top shelf stuff. 10% Magicka, 20% health, 20% stamina. In addition to the lowest cost ultimates and highest magnitude in cost reductions of any class. (5/5/15%) Disintegrate is also really cool, which is actually an area where I feel stam sorcs get screwed in this update, since the stam morph does not proc a disintegrate. Pretty lame.
4. I was actually thinking about the armor debuff issue, and I'm thinking instead of daedric prey they should have made some kind of a rune for Stam Sorcs here. I'm just spitballing at this point on that topic.

All in all I think the class needs tweaks to make sense in the framework of the rest of the game. Toggles never make sense to me, and I actually love playing the Sorcerer class. In the early portion of the game it was my favorite PVE class, as I could tank, dps, and honestly heal all at the same time. I had some great laughs in dungeons where my team would die, and I'd finish off/take on a boss all by myself (while they were telling me I should just die so they could load in). Then I'd get the cheerful hurrah when I beat the boss. Toggles are just weird in a game where you have so few skills to use. If this were a different game with 15-30 skills to fire it'd be a different situation, but it isn't a different game.

There are several things here that i read that compelled me to say something. :P

1. I totally agree with toggles having more disadvantages than advantages and that Sorc passives/abilities need reogranisation. I'm still not sure about adding a spammable dps ability(push-button damage) and call it balance. But yeah i agree they need thematic/gameplay reorganisation.

2) Bound armaments bonus 11% heavy att dmg is meh. It works great for PvE, but PvP wise its just meh. Ive played with 100 CP into basic att damages all over the place, and its still not as good as i thought. They could change BA to conjure weapons that can be used offensively/defensively. Or instead of weapons, the armor it summons could be at least used for something other than a minor buff. Everything else on point. Dark deal could be better and Crit Surge needs help.

3) This is the part where i mostly disagree. The regeneration passives are at best, mediocre especially the stam regen. In order to get the stam regen, you will need to do 1 of 3 things to benefit from the regen passives despite the bar you're using.
a) Give up two bar slots
b) Give up two ult slots
c) Compromise. Give up 1 bar slot, and an Ult on the other. But this would mean your toggles will unsummon. Bound Armaments costs 3k+ stam. Unless a stam sorc can make use of a 2k shield, Those are your three options.
I went with option A but because of that, i have to decide on what to give up in terms of utility and damage. So my other option is to use Overload 3rd bar to put things like Streak, Boundless Storm, Caltrops, etc. Not to mention that fighting and shuffling through 3 bars simultaneously is tough.
The magicka regen only benefits magicka sorcs. The highest magicka regen youn will ever reach on a Stam sorc is 700. This passive needs more.
The reduced cost of ult is great, but the cheapest Ulti available to any stam sorc is Overload. The cheapest Ult in the game is the NB's Incap Strike, and its going to be getting a HUGE buff next patch. Im talking bout 20k+ crits every 50 ult (not to mention Drink=free 20 ult lul). I think this passive needs something more, atm its meh.

4) Lol, interesting idea though. A curse that debuffs my enemies, i like it.

Spearblade · April 2016

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already or not. I've brought it up on other threads. Stam Sorc also needs a target gap closer.

As is, I'm forced to use 2H for Critical Rush or Silver Leash (two presses seems tedious when it's your only closer).

Easiest choice for ZOS would be to change Ball of Lightning to a stamina morph. The graphic doesn't even really need to change, just...put X there instead of Y.

I also like some of the ideas above of making a Mages Fury stam spam. But maybe it's because I just hate that "Dark Magic" (Crystal Frag/Blast) involves shooting a rock at somebody. My idea of "Dark Magic" is more like...the Shadow tree of Nightblade. Warlocky/Necro'y stuffs.

Annnyways. Stam spam. Gap Closer. Passive tweaks. Those are the essentials imho.

Bonus points? Give us a Stam morph of Overload or a Summon Air Atronach. Sweeten Bound Armaments a bit, maybe like...a spellswordy type weapon effect. Figure out a good way to make Critical Surge suck less in PVP. Dark Deal is *** right now. Make it faster, like a normal heal- Mag sorcs get Ward (hush. 6 sec sucks, but 100% damage mit > heal) to use for survival. Make Stam Sorcs a lil unique by having a direct self heal (non HoT), or Major Mending buff or something.

^
Not necessarily all of those bonus points, but they're ideas. I do want balance. But I also want options. Every Stam Sorc running the same build is BLEH. Flawless Dawnbreaker. Critical Rush. Wrecking Blow. Two Bound Armaments. Rally. Etc....

Spearblade · April 2016

Think I'm done posting about Stam Sorc now. If ZOS doesn't react, or respond; they don't care. And in that case, I'm not sure why I do.

I would love to see a lil "Z" next to this thread.

STEVIL · April 2016

Xael wrote: »

Solution

We need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)

Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
Chance to make ability instant cast.
Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

I would vote instead for crystal maul replacing crystal blast.
Maul would work off sta and phys dmg, cause a lot of damage at std melee range and cause fracture or whatever the effect is that lowers enemy physical resistance. Arguments for major or minor can be made either way.

Compared to FRAG it loses range and knockdown but gains instant cast and fracture with the mag vs stan shift.

this provides more gains for a group setting, decent effects for solo and keeps a general shift for a meaningful didff between sta sorc and mag sorc being range.

Calboy · April 2016

Z is weirdly quiet about the stam sorc. I get the feeling someone in the team is very against the idea. Maybe someone with a gripe towards fengrush?

runagate · April 2016

I've had an orc stam sorc for scroll running forever now, and used an absolutely absurd number of different loadouts and Sets to test what would be best. She used to be able to outrun a horse until they nerfed speed buff stacking with Expedition and such.

I completely disagree with the idea that stam sorcs should have frags. This just makes the stam sorc a melee version of the stereotypical magicka sorc.

Stam sorcs are the most maneuverable class in the game if played right. When I lead in PvP I bring my stam sorc for that very reason. Unlike a stam or magicka sorc I can already just decide to leave a fight if I so desire. That's powerful tactically, if not in terms of killing people. In fact they should get another speed boost from Bound Armaments or Hurricane.

Also, for the love of Nirn make Hurricane not agro neutral mobs like mudcrabs. It's a simple quality of live improvement.

I already tried a Fighter's Guild spec before the current FG meta in DB on PTS was a glimmer in the devs' eyes. Even when vamp DKs were OP she could take out several at once. Lightweight Beast Trap and it's lovely minor bonus was always a great buff for stam sorcs.

The "Air Atronach" morph idea for an Ultimate is a really great idea!

Certainly the Curse skills shouldn't be monkeyed with, as that's bread and butter for sorcs, whether shard-proc curse users or newbie pet build users.

Why not simply be creative and give stam sorcs uniqueness while not messing with magicka sorcs' favorite skills by making new morphs of skills no one uses anyway?

Restraining Prison changed to Bound Scythe. This is easy to replace with a stam morph since no one uses either morph, ever. Given that some skills proc on pets, this would be a nice "summoned weapon" skill option to replace the silly CC. It's worse than DK's shattering rocks. Make the summoned weapon proc all pet-related passives and enchants, like Hunt Leader. This could then be activated a second time much like the pet skills whereupon it would perform an interrupt-gap closer which uses the boss mob "chain charge" that leaps between nearby combatants but locks the sorc into the animation, can be interrupted by a bash, and has a GCD to balance it out. It can be used situationally or not used as seems appropriate to the user, and harnesses functionality already in the game.

Defensive Rune changed to Retributive Rune (actually kind of cool except that Thundering Presence automatically dispels it) - Given the long duration it actually works nicely as a way to prevent things from dismounting you and chasing after you, and as a counter to being ganked. Taking an idea from hardmode HRC simply keep it a CC that procs on the attacker except make it scale off of physical damage making a knockdown and AoE damage burst on enemies in the radius if a player "breaks free" or when otherwise dispelled, but not affecting the target it is cast upon. There needs to be some other mechanic aside from "dispelled by taking damage" as a melee range stam sorc with a gigantic AoE like the new lightning puddle around a stam sorc (which I agree should become an "air/physical" damage ring) will make this skill pointless otherwise. Fans of anti-zergs skills have another option with this skill. It doesn't even hurt the attacker but their nearby allies.

Ball of Lightning changed to Williwaw . This skill should allow you to teleport further (as stam sorcs can't spam it like magicka sorcs do Streak) and end up facing the opposite way of your direction of teleportation (thus making it a bit more fair to those chasing said sorcs but more useful for a melee attacker) so that as a melee fighter you can end up behind an opponent to close a gap without a teleport strike like CC and also without the added pain of yet another "charge" attack that just glitches out. Keep the balls that intercept projectiles, which is very useful, but make those balls into "traps" if they do in fact intercept projectiles that if touched drive a spike through the attacker, pinning them to the ground with that lovely "levitating and wiggling while leaned back and writhing" animation with a long Major Defile debuff. Somewhat similar to magkca sorc's Mines but less damaging but more debilitating, emphasizing the maneuverability and tactical abilities of the stam sorc, and something completely unique.

Dark Deal could be easily changed so that magicka attacks siphon stamina from the attacker during the channel while creating an AoE doing a physical, health-siphoning bleed for melee/physical attacks. This ought not to be so powerful that it's always a good idea to use, making both attacker and attacked have to calculate whether it's worthwhile, adding to the resource-management calculations.

Keep the stam sorc the most maneuverable, tactically-interesting class/attribute combination! It's actually fun to have to juggle skills and work hard tactically to make stam sorcs worthwhile in a fight, just make it more worthwhile and keep the unique flavor. I hope some of my ideas of re-using already coded assets are taken to heart as I absolutely love my stam sorc despite unquestionably being at the bottom of the 8 possible class/attribute combinations.

skoorpz · April 2016

Im really interrested by what zenimax think about stamsorc and this player's reaction, i know that put a class damage could be bad or make this class better than others, a problem that will surely occur whith this maj with NB and DK . But effectively what have stamsorc now, whithout two stam buffs, to beeing a stamina dps ? Just weapon class, and of course the ulti but we can already find better... Cristal shard for magicka sorcerer is really considerated in pvp build (and just for one morph...), that could be a good idea, but the 8% healing have to be deleted if its spammable... Get an other buff, could be great but how? And a buff will make the same problem, no damage class... Play with this class is really fantastic because of his originality, but really weak compared to an other... I appreciate that many players are worry about this next modifications. I hope that zenimax will give more than what they annonciate, or take time to discuss of it. Sorry for my limited english

Xundiin · April 2016

I'm no expert at stam sorcs yet. But I am starting to really get into mine and love it even over my Mag sorc. What I can tell from my experience is Stam sorcs are lacking. They need a few more abilities/passives to help out. Maybe something that regens stamina or something. Like maybe make the stam morph of Bound Armaments have a passive stam regen as well as a stam boost.

ALso, I was messing around with my Stamblade last night and got to thinking, like the OP stated we need a spam-able class ability for damage as well as maybe an armor pen, what if you made Crystal Blast (since I don't think anyone uses this skill) out spam-able. make it scale and act like our version of surprise attack. This would solve two problems with one stone. maybe call it shattering blast. That way it sounds like a armor pen ability.

Also, I never understood why it felt like you nerfed or reduced the movement times on "hurricane". If Sorcs are suppose to be the most mobile of the classes, then why does it seem we have only 1 very punishable on use skill that does this. Also I was thinking what if you added a stam regen passive to Hurricane. Maybe not nearly so potent that it would negate the cost of it, but maybe 75% of the cost over it's full duration?

Anyway, just a couple thoughts to add to the discussion.

Ajaxduo · April 2016

What I would like to see:

Mages Fury - a morph which is melee and wind themed stamina execute to follow the style of Hurricane.

Bound Armanents - instead of giving that bound armor look...why not summon a weapon or two? Remove the heavy attack buff and make it deal damage whilst increasing your stamina whilst toggled. Or something along these lines, this would VERY much fit the theme for Sorc imo.

Crystal Blast - Most seem to want this changed into some crude melee based insta spammable to replace Wrecking Blow/Rapid Strikes. I can understand that...although I'm not sure that it is 'needed'.

Atronach Ultimate - A morph which instead summons a Air Atronach that deals physical damage. (I can dream).

I think this would suffice and seems reasonable.

Taruha · April 2016

Ajaxduo wrote: »

What I would like to see:

Mages Fury - a morph which is melee and wind themed stamina execute to follow the style of Hurricane.

Bound Armanents - instead of giving that bound armor look...why not summon a weapon or two? Remove the heavy attack buff and make it deal damage whilst increasing your stamina whilst toggled. Or something along these lines, this would VERY much fit the theme for Sorc imo.

Crystal Blast - Most seem to want this changed into some crude melee based insta spammable to replace Wrecking Blow/Rapid Strikes. I can understand that...although I'm not sure that it is 'needed'.

Atronach Ultimate - A morph which instead summons a Air Atronach that deals physical damage. (I can dream).

I think this would suffice and seems reasonable.

Some funky ideas! And the Sorc SORELY needs a stamina ultimate xD

Dyride · April 2016

Really like the Defensive Rune suggestion by @runagate , Def Rune is one of my favorite skills to slot but the fact it breaks so easily on our other defensive utility and gives free CC immunity is a huge drawback (see video below).

After last patch dropping without a stam Crystal Blast but just a slight magicka buff, I don't think we are getting this skill.

And seeing DB patch with only Hurricane, I don't think we get a poison Curse or Shard or Fury. @Wrobel Please prove me wrong.

What we can fight for is reworking of some of the other skills to give a PVE DPS boost and more utility for PVP.

https://youtu.be/4CGYZLs9IKI

AdAstra · April 2016

@Ajax_22 i'm here. thanks for bringing this thread to my attention in the steam with Fengrush. i will review all the posts now.

Tormjolnir · April 2016

Howdy folks

First off and I am probably in the minority here but I really dislike the new wind aesthetic for Stam Sorcs. I made a Stam Sorc to be a lightning-based melee warrior. So please , in the name of Thor, revert back to the name Thundering Pressence and give me back my lightning.

Secondly I am tired of suggesting the same things over and over. Every Stam Sorc thread asks for a spamable dps skill (Please no frags stam. I really hate the Fishing for Frags random playstyle), and some other forms of stam morphs along with some better synergy with class passives, and fixes to our damage ie normalizing things to physical damage where applicable including our ultimates. We all keep asking and ZOS while reading doesn't seem overly interested in going down this road.

So as a new off the wall suggestion how about introducing some crafted sets of gear (or drops although I would prefer the ability to craft them ) that offer Stam Sorcs what we are after? There are already sets out there that add elemental type damage bonuses like Skoria or Ashen Grip. Why not make a lightning based set that provides benefits to Stam Sorcs? Off the top of my head....

Set of the Thunderwalker
2 piece bonus - x Stam
3 piece bonus - x Weapon Damage
4 piece bonus - x Stam Recovery
5 piece bonus - While Thundering Presence is active light and heavy attacks store up lightning energy. Activating Thundering Presence again sends out a lightning discharge doing x damage to all enemies in the area

or

Set of the Surge Master
2 piece bonus - x Stam
3 piece bonus - x Weapon Damage
4 piece bonus - x Weapon Crit
5 piece bonus - Activating Critical Surge in addition to its base effects also embues your weapons with lightning energy allowing your light and heavy attacks to do 25% more damage
or maybe this 5 piece bonus reverses the damage allocation of Rapid Strikes, making the first hit the most powerful one?

I mean I would rather ZOS fix the balance in the class itself but it seems like they like to use sets to deal with balancing so why not take that a step further?

A couple of things I see for DB that I see as good include the new Silver Leash gap closer and some of the improvements to weapon skill lines and other fighters guild skills.

Cheers,
Jeremy (Torunnson)

TBois · April 2016

I think if they just reworked crit surge or let you crit shields I would be satisfied. I use thundering presence currently but the way they have the buff on the end of hurricane may kill the skill for me, and I'll go back to boundless storm.

I am having a lot of fun with a spell sword build with valkyn skoria in pvp. I have crit surge on my bar but it doesn't do much; I should really get rid of it. Hopefully the next patch won't kill all my enthusiasm for the game and I can keep working on this Stam sorc build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL_aMcx-Qxg

Sparky617 · April 2016

Y'all have put a lot more thought into how to fix Stam Sorc than I have. I just wanted to chime in with my 2c. I made my Khajjit Stam Sorc about a month after launch, and I had so much fun with him since soft caps made hybrids decent. Now... About all he's good for is running around gathering and crafting. Hurricane hit that with the removal of major expedition.
I wil say that I like the whole wind theme doing physical damage....just gotta give us a version of curse and fix the passives and I'll be fairly happy.. I just hate being stuck with just weapon skills

AGrz5585 · April 2016

Give bound armaments the magelught treatment and as it's clicky, have it do what hurricane currently does. And revert hurricane back and increase duration.

Would love a stam curse or mines tho, just something from the dark magic skill line so we can use the heal passive

Daymond · April 2016

I dont like the wind i wanted to be a lightning warrior as someone said earlier. Also I do not think we need a spammable dmg class skill we got the weapon skill line and use class skills to augment are weapon abilities. Do like some ideas like crit surge giving your weapon lightning dmg also bolt escape be like other gap closers when you target someone and like how it normally is when you do not have a target .

Also I use rune cage so please do not change that cuz I use it with flurry since its a dot so it does not break it. I also see people say they do not use alot of class skills i use min of 5 skills always sometimes more if im trying someting new.

To the devs though really like negate changes still want negate buffs and not just area moves.

Ajax_22 · April 2016

runagate wrote: »

Why not simply be creative and give stam sorcs uniqueness while not messing with magicka sorcs' favorite skills by making new morphs of skills no one uses anyway?

Restraining Prison changed to Bound Scythe. This is easy to replace with a stam morph since no one uses either morph, ever. Given that some skills proc on pets, this would be a nice "summoned weapon" skill option to replace the silly CC. It's worse than DK's shattering rocks. Make the summoned weapon proc all pet-related passives and enchants, like Hunt Leader. This could then be activated a second time much like the pet skills whereupon it would perform an interrupt-gap closer which uses the boss mob "chain charge" that leaps between nearby combatants but locks the sorc into the animation, can be interrupted by a bash, and has a GCD to balance it out. It can be used situationally or not used as seems appropriate to the user, and harnesses functionality already in the game.

Defensive Rune changed to Retributive Rune (actually kind of cool except that Thundering Presence automatically dispels it) - Given the long duration it actually works nicely as a way to prevent things from dismounting you and chasing after you, and as a counter to being ganked. Taking an idea from hardmode HRC simply keep it a CC that procs on the attacker except make it scale off of physical damage making a knockdown and AoE damage burst on enemies in the radius if a player "breaks free" or when otherwise dispelled, but not affecting the target it is cast upon. There needs to be some other mechanic aside from "dispelled by taking damage" as a melee range stam sorc with a gigantic AoE like the new lightning puddle around a stam sorc (which I agree should become an "air/physical" damage ring) will make this skill pointless otherwise. Fans of anti-zergs skills have another option with this skill. It doesn't even hurt the attacker but their nearby allies.

Dark Deal could be easily changed so that magicka attacks siphon stamina from the attacker during the channel while creating an AoE doing a physical, health-siphoning bleed for melee/physical attacks. This ought not to be so powerful that it's always a good idea to use, making both attacker and attacked have to calculate whether it's worthwhile, adding to the resource-management calculations.

Restraining Prison is actually used by a pretty significant number of Magic Sorcs in higher level dueling. It's the only ranged CC they have access to, and since Curse, Ineviteable Det, and Soul Strike don't break it they are able to set up their burst, and force a CC break from the enemy.

Defensive Rune hasn't been used as much since the Battle Spirit changes made 3-4 second kill gank builds nearly impossible to run. However, now that Stam Nightblades are able to recreate those builds this skill should get a lot more use. When I PvP'd on my Magic Sorc, back before IC, I would always have this skill active anytime I was mounted or on siege. I think it would be a nice quality of life change if both morphs of Lighting Form prevented the CC from breaking. It's kind of stupid that one of our main defensive abilities breaks the CC of our anti-gank ability.

I don't think anyone will argue that Dark Deal could use some love. I would love to see the spreadsheet for ability usage, because I'm pretty confident this would be way at the bottom.

Speely · April 2016

I don't think Stam Sorcs need a class-based insta damage skill. What's the use of weapon skills if class skills always trump them? Even given the WB nerf, which admittedly affects us more than any other build type, we can solve this without a spammable class damage skill.

As a Stam Sorc, I agree we need love and the DB update does not show us any. Hurricane is a freaking joke. Boundless Storm will remain on my bar for the utility it provides, all day every day. Talk about the opposite of utility.

My solution: Since we are a class that has to rely upon Weapon Skills for damage for Stamina builds, make Bound Armaments just also increase physical critical damage by 20%. Boom... It's a big number but whatever. We need love. Any dedicated Stam Sorc is likely going to have a high crit chance because of Crit Surge. Weapon skills doing WAY more crit damage would balance us out vs Temps who Jabs their way into crit buffs without needing Expert Hunter and now have Burning Light buffed or NBs who have great passives and SA. It would also be very synergistic with our style of play, which equates to "do damage to stay alive" via Critical Surge. Hell, start it out at +10% crit damage and go from there. The important part is making a skill we are SUPPOSED to really value actually useful.

This would give us a very real advantage for sustained damage using Weapon Skills even while we miss out on the efficiency and potency of the class skills NBs and Temps have. And DKs now, apparently.

Sorry to be sort of contrarian, but I honestly feel that a Stamina class damage skill would just equate to the Templar treatment: Oh they are unhappy and want better utility, mobility, and support? Let's give them a death beam! Stam Sorcs need not be Stam NBs, but could be the best at using weapon skills, which fits the theme of "Bound Armaments" perfectly.

I.E. we stand to gain a lot from NOT having a spamwin button that renders weapons skills meaningless and instead asking for ways to boost the potency of skills we have access to now just for us. In my eyes, Bound Armaments is the obvious choice to do this via a change since it is a Stam-based skill that severely underperforms and could easily add a passive that counts.

Ajax_22 · April 2016

Daymond wrote: »

I dont like the wind i wanted to be a lightning warrior as someone said earlier. Also I do not think we need a spammable dmg class skill we got the weapon skill line and use class skills to augment are weapon abilities. Do like some ideas like crit surge giving your weapon lightning dmg also bolt escape be like other gap closers when you target someone and like how it normally is when you do not have a target .

Also I use rune cage so please do not change that cuz I use it with flurry since its a dot so it does not break it. I also see people say they do not use alot of class skills i use min of 5 skills always sometimes more if im trying someting new.

To the devs though really like negate changes still want negate buffs and not just area moves.

Unfortunately due the Champion Point system, Stam Sorc can't be lighting based. If they were we would be doing 25% less damage than every other class with our class abilities. This is the same reason Stam Dragonknights, and Nightblades were changed to do poison, and disease damage, respectively. Wind abilities actually fit the Stom Calling tree very well, (hurricanes and tornadoes being wind storms) and ZOS could come up with some really cool abilities with this new wind theme for Stam.

Tormjolnir · April 2016

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Daymond wrote: »

I dont like the wind i wanted to be a lightning warrior as someone said earlier. Also I do not think we need a spammable dmg class skill we got the weapon skill line and use class skills to augment are weapon abilities. Do like some ideas like crit surge giving your weapon lightning dmg also bolt escape be like other gap closers when you target someone and like how it normally is when you do not have a target .

Also I use rune cage so please do not change that cuz I use it with flurry since its a dot so it does not break it. I also see people say they do not use alot of class skills i use min of 5 skills always sometimes more if im trying someting new.

To the devs though really like negate changes still want negate buffs and not just area moves.

Unfortunately due the Champion Point system, Stam Sorc can't be lighting based. If they were we would be doing 25% less damage than every other class with our class abilities. This is the same reason Stam Dragonknights, and Nightblades were changed to do poison, and disease damage, respectively. Wind abilities actually fit the Stom Calling tree very well, (hurricanes and tornadoes being wind storms) and ZOS could come up with some really cool abilities with this new wind theme for Stam.

There is no champ point allocation to impact wind damage either. So its moot until ZOS can normalize physical damage properly across all its classes. There is no good reason I can think of why we can't have physical damage champion point allocations affect overload damage or any Stamina based morph be it lightning based or wind. ZOS is starting to get this all in line with poison but there is much work yet to do and sadly Stam Sorc with no poison skills or the fewest stam morphs get the big huge shaft

It's cool you like the wind aesthetic. It's also cool others like it. I am just saying I don't like it. I want my melee lightning...I am funny like that

Cheers,
Jeremy (Torunnson)

Ajax_22 · May 2016

Tormjolnir wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Daymond wrote: »

I dont like the wind i wanted to be a lightning warrior as someone said earlier. Also I do not think we need a spammable dmg class skill we got the weapon skill line and use class skills to augment are weapon abilities. Do like some ideas like crit surge giving your weapon lightning dmg also bolt escape be like other gap closers when you target someone and like how it normally is when you do not have a target .

Also I use rune cage so please do not change that cuz I use it with flurry since its a dot so it does not break it. I also see people say they do not use alot of class skills i use min of 5 skills always sometimes more if im trying someting new.

To the devs though really like negate changes still want negate buffs and not just area moves.

Unfortunately due the Champion Point system, Stam Sorc can't be lighting based. If they were we would be doing 25% less damage than every other class with our class abilities. This is the same reason Stam Dragonknights, and Nightblades were changed to do poison, and disease damage, respectively. Wind abilities actually fit the Stom Calling tree very well, (hurricanes and tornadoes being wind storms) and ZOS could come up with some really cool abilities with this new wind theme for Stam.

There is no champ point allocation to impact wind damage either. So its moot until ZOS can normalize physical damage properly across all its classes. There is no good reason I can think of why we can't have physical damage champion point allocations affect overload damage or any Stamina based morph be it lightning based or wind. ZOS is starting to get this all in line with poison but there is much work yet to do and sadly Stam Sorc with no poison skills or the fewest stam morphs get the big huge shaft

It's cool you like the wind aesthetic. It's also cool others like it. I am just saying I don't like it. I want my melee lightning...I am funny like that

Cheers,
Jeremy (Torunnson)

It's not wind damage. It's wind abilities, like Hurricane, doing physical damage. This patch actually did normalize stamina based class abilities (as well as Fighters Guild) to scale with Mighty. Nightblades are disease, Dragonknights are poison, and Templars and Sorcerers are physical now. A few may have slipped through the cracks, but I'm not aware of any. Mighty can't effect lighting damage it would be unbalancing in the current system, and it's easier to change the abilities than the system. Why can't ZOS scale all ultimates for either Mighty or Elemental Expert? I don't know. It seems like a good solution to me, but they would probably respond with build diversity and homogenization.

I know a lot of people like the lighting. I do too. However, I would prefer to have our abilities scale with our CP rather then have our badass lighting. Wind themed abilities, that do physical damage, fit the Storm Calling skill line just as much as lighting abilities. So at least that would keep it consistent with the skill lines theme; much more so than adding poison or disease abilities.

PainfulFAFA · May 2016

Speely wrote: »

I don't think Stam Sorcs need a class-based insta damage skill. What's the use of weapon skills if class skills always trump them? Even given the WB nerf, which admittedly affects us more than any other build type, we can solve this without a spammable class damage skill.

As a Stam Sorc, I agree we need love and the DB update does not show us any. Hurricane is a freaking joke. Boundless Storm will remain on my bar for the utility it provides, all day every day. Talk about the opposite of utility.

My solution: Since we are a class that has to rely upon Weapon Skills for damage for Stamina builds, make Bound Armaments just also increase physical critical damage by 20%. Boom... It's a big number but whatever. We need love. Any dedicated Stam Sorc is likely going to have a high crit chance because of Crit Surge. Weapon skills doing WAY more crit damage would balance us out vs Temps who Jabs their way into crit buffs without needing Expert Hunter and now have Burning Light buffed or NBs who have great passives and SA. It would also be very synergistic with our style of play, which equates to "do damage to stay alive" via Critical Surge. Hell, start it out at +10% crit damage and go from there. The important part is making a skill we are SUPPOSED to really value actually useful.

This would give us a very real advantage for sustained damage using Weapon Skills even while we miss out on the efficiency and potency of the class skills NBs and Temps have. And DKs now, apparently.

Sorry to be sort of contrarian, but I honestly feel that a Stamina class damage skill would just equate to the Templar treatment: Oh they are unhappy and want better utility, mobility, and support? Let's give them a death beam! Stam Sorcs need not be Stam NBs, but could be the best at using weapon skills, which fits the theme of "Bound Armaments" perfectly.

I.E. we stand to gain a lot from NOT having a spamwin button that renders weapons skills meaningless and instead asking for ways to boost the potency of skills we have access to now just for us. In my eyes, Bound Armaments is the obvious choice to do this via a change since it is a Stam-based skill that severely underperforms and could easily add a passive that counts.

Thats a neat idea buffing Crit Surge in PVP by giving them a crit bonus damage somewhere.

Mettaricana · May 2016

Honestly why is crystal frags magicka anyway I'm gonna conjure up a rock ( a solid object) a throw it at sounds like it should cost magic but deal physical?

Also revert bound arma to magicka honestly there's nothing stamina about conjuring otherworldly magical armor. But keep the stam buffs it offers like iron man body enhancement. This along with thundering back as magicka should help with resource issues.

And give us stamina frags or lord behold three morphs of a skill maybe just maybe give all classes a third morph of one skill on each skill line to fix some of the grief over changes. Like keep the two frag morphs but add a third thays stamina?

Alcast · May 2016

DDragon wrote: »

In my opinion stamina-sorcs are at great disadvantage when it comes to single-target DPS (especially in PvE content).

As a stamina sork khajiit I tried to build several different builds and rotations, both increasing my critical rating or weapon power, or trying to find golden ration between the two. I even obtained maelstorm daggers hoping that this would it some way affect my dps (it did - but not i a good way). Nevertheless none of those combinations and builds allowed me to obtain greater dps than 23k on static bosses and around 15k dps on mobile bosses (such as the bosses 1. and 2. in veteran MoL). Given the fact, that there are some serious dps requirements to complete veteran MoL, I'm basically every time boosted through this trial, rather than be an active participant.
Furthermore, in my opinion, it is impossible to surpass more than 25k dps on single static target for stamina sorc no matter what race are you playing. The 25k dps is a glass roof for stam sorc dps, which is not a case in any other classes as far as I know. The most effective dps build for me ATM in case of single-target dps (on live) is WB spam + bow DOT, with thundering presence ability on and critical surge.
Compering to other players at same champion level and skill, I should easily obtain around 30-40k of dps on static target.

Several issues have been already posted with possible solutions. Those major issue are:
1) lack of direct damage stamina class ability, that would be affected in positive ways from class passives
2) lack of damage-over time class ability, that would possibly be also affected by maelstorm daggers enchant
3) lack of stamina/weapon-damage scaling of pets. Also probably changing not-healing twilight to be more PvP damage enchancer (minor berserker?)
4) Weakness of class passive that increase weapon damage comparing to fighter's guild passive
Several minor issues also have been posted through forum:
5) Overload poor scaling to weapon dmg
6) Uselessness of storm antronach ultimate on trials

Stamina version of thundering presence ATM in PVE content responds usually to 5-10%. The "enhancement" of this ability might or might not actually change the value. Why?
1) Lack of disintegrate proc. I never actually checked what is the percentage of this passive in my overall dps (and I think it's rather small), I think this is a nerf for many PvP players.
2) Speed enhance was usually helpful in case of mobile bosses to be able to still "stay" on him. Removing of this may result in spending more time on runing after boss rather than dps’ing him.
3) Furthermore speed removal is actually an enormous nerf when it comes to doing veteran Maelstorm as a stamina sorc. Honestly I have no idea now how to effectively do crystal phase on last boss.

I don't have time nor mood to find solutions to those problems, this is not my job. However it has been frequently said that DB DLC will address issues of stamina sorc. Revamping one skill in way that it is actually more of a nerf rather than enhance is by all mean NOT addressing issue of stamina sorc (unless the issue of stamina sorcs is that some of the players are still trying to play sorc on stamina).
I strongly encourage all ZOS team to read some great ideas of shrinking stam sorc community and make stamina sorcs equal to other stamina (and magica - because that was the aim of this DLC I hope) classes.

I could reach 30k dps on 2nd boss as a stamina sorc. I am sure more is possible, only tried once. However, a Stam DK would do like 5-6k more simply because he has more DoTs available and a far better ultimate than Stam Sorcs.

Also, group buffs are far more important than your actual build. And yes, I used maelstrom daggers.

Stamina builds in general have a lot more sustain issues and are harder to play. That is why most guilds just roll magicka builds.

Suggestions like making energized passive both increase shock AND physical damage would already benefit sorcs a lot.
Also, Bound Armor should be made a skill like Evil hunter. So for example you could add smth like: After 6 hits taken, release a burst of cone AoE attack infront of you for X damage.
Also changing Daedric Tomb to poison would help as well.

Even those small changes would already make Stam Sorc a lot more viable for PvE

Garwulf · May 2016

By its name, Sorcerer, the concept of a Stamina Sorcerer is as silly as a Wire netting Canoe.
A Stamina based Magic user is not a sorcerer. It is another class entirely. Not so with the other 3 classes in this game. However personally, I dislike the fixed classes in this game. It is definitely not an Elderscrolls Game because of it. Just another game set in the Elder Scroll 'Universe'.

Ahzek · May 2016

Garwulf wrote: »

By its name, Sorcerer, the concept of a Stamina Sorcerer is as silly as a Wire netting Canoe.
A Stamina based Magic user is not a sorcerer. It is another class entirely. Not so with the other 3 classes in this game. However personally, I dislike the fixed classes in this game. It is definitely not an Elderscrolls Game because of it. Just another game set in the Elder Scroll 'Universe'.

Search for "stamina sorcerer" in this forum.
Open the next best thread you like.
Scroll through till you find some1 commenting the same ignorant BS you do.
Scroll a bit more to find a plethora of answers why your comment is useless.