Sureshawt wrote: »

LOL...A skill that buffs damage and anyone can slot and cancel out a class defining defensive skill is a joke. How you can not see it is beyond me but then I saw your comment

So, like, I don't know - any major defile vs templar healing? Meteor (now, before that crushing shock) vs dk scales? Shieldbreaker (not even a skill but a set) vs sorc shields?

Counters exist for every class defense, you're massively overstating the effectiveness of radiant magelight in making cloak useless.

"cloak is still and always will be an excellent escape (just get a tiny bit of distance on your opponent first instead of laughing and cloaking in their face like it is now)"

This just hilarious. First, you cannot cloak for 5 seconds after being revealed assuming you can get that 'tiny distance' without being snared. Second, even assuming you do get that 'tiny distance' and are not snared there is nothing preventing a gap closer eliminating that distance immediately and then rinse/repeat spammable combo.

Sure, you probably won't be able to turn invisible and laugh in your enemy's face if you cloak in the middle of a wide open field... which is a bad thing? I mean, I don't know, pretty sure turning invisible in a wide open field in front of or surrounded by your enemies is *** anyway.

But roll dodging around a corner, or using shadow image + cloak and never being found again? Seems pretty damn reasonable to me.

But even without any of that, even if you stand in the middle of a zerg of people with nothing but radiant and inner magelight on all of their skill bars, potato-spamming the cloak button, you still have a better escape skill than a DK or a Templar will ever have.

Seriously, what's so hard about this? Have you even tried playing nightblade on the PTS? I haven't (because i'm scared of the new 64 bit client), but it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with radiant magelight. All i'm seeing is an unreasonable *** of complaining coming from people jumping onto the "we're nerfed, *** zenimax" bandwagon that forms literally every time any change of any kind is anounced.

On the surface by itself Radiant appears reasonable until you combine with the other skills that will be used in conjunction with it and all of which are spammable.

You mean like cloak and literally every other nightblade skill ever?

Besides, all of Radiant/inner's bonuses are passive synergies. You'd get the same *** with any class from slotting an ability with passive synergy, it's frankly ridiculous how people are blind to the way their own classes function and just focus on alterations to different skills while ignoring what ALREADY EXISTS which is basically the exact same damn thing.

A sorc slotting a Crystal frags will get a 2% spell power boost, 8% health every time they use the skill, and minor prophecy given to them and all their allies in a massive radius every time they use the skill. A nightblade using dark cloak gets major resolve and major ward every time the skill is used, and 3% max health just for having it slotted. A DK using an earthen heart ability gets 5% stamina, AoE minor brutality and 2 ultimate.

This spammable passive synergy exists for every *** class, every *** skill line and every *** passive skill. This is not unique to radiant magelight. Stop preaching it as being overpowered, you want to look at something then examine the skill and the skill alone rather than it's passive synergies.

This makes cloak worthless from a practical combat standpoint against even halfway competent players on the PvP battlefield.

See the above.

Also note. Cloak no longer cleanses DoTs. It merely suspends them as long you remain cloaked....LOL...Good luck with that given what we just discussed above.

Hence, "Magblades can still counter DoTs", since they have the magicka to waste on this.


[Edited for Flaming]

It will just ruin stealth in general, for every one, not just NB's.

Say I am a Stamina Templar. I am stealthed in between keeps, and decide to open up combat with a Snipe from stealth.

Now there will be a 50% chance or better that your Snipe will be reduced by 56% since most people will be running Radiant Magelight.

Why even attack from stealth, or go into stealth anymore?

coolermh wrote: »

I read the patch notes...i dont think it prevents you from going invisable for 5 seconds like revealing flare... it just says stealth (invisible and stealth are different)...so you can still shadow cloak and not be seen as long as your are not in the "8 meter" radius... I am sure that cloak will not be "completely ruined or whatever."


...but yes cloak will require some more situational awareness and skill to use....I think that is a good thing!

Nope. Wish it were so. It prevents cloak as well.

Edit: At least that's how it appeared on Sypher's stream last night. There was a blue bubble when a nb tried to cloak.....might have been because of the 8m radius though come to think of it. Hope that's the explanation aar.

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, when the changes are eventually applied, the balance will be finally restored.
For a long time we've been experiencing a huge advantage of NBs over any other class. The cloak + ambush are (soon: were) the pain in the arse of 30% of players playing classes other than the NB. Yeah, approx. 70% of chars I see in PvP (especially in Imperial City) are the NBs (check the polls on the forum). This fact just speaks for itself: this class is now the easiest-to-play and the most OP. It is obvious that it needs a nerf to restore the balance to the game (or rather to PvP). It's also understandable that people who play the NBs are opposing the changes but it's just inevitable. That issue has been talked about for a long time.
The changes made to magelight are really a clever way to do so. NBs will be still attractive though. The stealth detection from inner light will require its cast so basically the NBs can hide behind the cloak just before the first attack which is enough.

Tyrion87: Joined October 2015. Pretty much what I thought. Not that when you started playing invalidates your opinion, but it can help explain a lack of perspective.

Since launch NBs have always been a hugely popular class because that archetype is what a lot of people enjoy. They also make great tanks and healers (well less so after this update...), so it also brings flexibility across roles and builds. The class was comparatively underpowered (largely from broken abilities, including Cloak) up until last summer when game-wide buffs to stamina and key NB class bug fixes finally turned the class around.

Every class has a powerful playstyle not just NB (stamina DK, magicka sorc), and even then one's own skill and knowledge of your build will almost always trump a bad player trying to use a FOTM build. There have been dozens, if not hundreds, of posts outlining why Cloak was central to NB PvP playstyle and has many counters and limitations, but as usual ZOS over reaches their balancing and sometimes doesn't see the relationships between many changes that are in fact related (e.g. Magelight and stealth for all classes and Cloak for NBs).

You know it's the date when I joined the forum, not started playing the game? I joined the game a few months before that.

I think you guys are overreacting. Anyone who was killing NB without magelight before is still going to kill them now. As a magsorc I struggled to find space on my bar for inner light in PvP. With the update I was hopeful that I could slot it on the back bar and still have the passives active on my main bar.

That is not the case.

Anyone who was not slotting it due to space issues, will still not be slotting it in the Thieves Guild update.

Is Magelight able to remove also the invisibility of Clouding Swarm?
Has anyone tested it already?

It's a nice touch for a healer in a group, maybe, but... Isn't healing still nerfed in Cyrodiil? Doesn't that make it easier for gankers to kill healers? If you catch a healer alone, does stealth detection really keep him alive?

Sorry, I just don't see a reason to get excited one way or the other.

Wait till ya eat a scorching flare to the face from a Magicka DK

I like that NBs yelled at everyone to use radiant as a counter to cloak, and when we said it wasn't strong enough to be a hard counter to cloak like they claimed it was they said we all needed to l2p, now it is actually worth using, and worth suggesting to mag players as a viable option and they're all crying... Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned fear yet? It didnt get any nerf as far as I can tell, fear, rapid maneuver away and then cloak up. Are you guys mad you now have to slot skills to counter other classes like the rest of us have had to do?

catalyst10e wrote: »

I like that NBs yelled at everyone to use radiant as a counter to cloak, and when we said it wasn't strong enough to be a hard counter to cloak like they claimed it was they said we all needed to l2p, now it is actually worth using, and worth suggesting to mag players as a viable option and they're all crying... Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned fear yet? It didnt get any nerf as far as I can tell, fear, rapid maneuver away and then cloak up. Are you guys mad you now have to slot skills to counter other classes like the rest of us have had to do?

They over buffed it, coupled with Cloak's changes it is just over the top now.

Pretty sure you would be a bit pissed if there was an ability that removed your hardened ward, and prevented it from recasting every 5 seconds on use.

While being available to every spec, and being so attractive that 90% of builds you run into will have it.

I'm all for counterplay, but over buffing abilities because people can't spec appropriately is a bit BS.

I'm not pigeon holed here, I have the other classes to go to. However I just hate to see my prefered playstyle destroyed for no good reason.

zyk wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

I think its great that it'll take more to actually gank some one... the camo hunter >surprise attack> cloak repeat.... was abit over the top.

Actually, no. Gankers will barely be impacted. The target will be dead before having a chance to activate Inner Light. This change hurts NB skirmisher builds. Especially Magicka builds that use cloak as an alternative to roll dodge.

This change is more likely to increase the rate of gankers as more NBs will be pigeon-holed into doing so.

This ^

I guess this is what I will have to do to become viable again. I ran an open field skirmisher build built for sustaining large scale encounters in AvA. I never really liked gank style builds but it looks like I won't have any choice if I still want to be competitive in AvA with my NB. Thankfully switching to stamina/sniper/gank build wont be to hard. I really enjoyed my Magicka NB though. Or maybe I will just stop playing altogether.....this *** is getting old and crusty.

catalyst10e wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

I like that NBs yelled at everyone to use radiant as a counter to cloak, and when we said it wasn't strong enough to be a hard counter to cloak like they claimed it was they said we all needed to l2p, now it is actually worth using, and worth suggesting to mag players as a viable option and they're all crying... Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned fear yet? It didnt get any nerf as far as I can tell, fear, rapid maneuver away and then cloak up. Are you guys mad you now have to slot skills to counter other classes like the rest of us have had to do?

They over buffed it, coupled with Cloak's changes it is just over the top now.

Pretty sure you would be a bit pissed if there was an ability that removed your hardened ward, and prevented it from recasting every 5 seconds on use.

While being available to every spec, and being so attractive that 90% of builds you run into will have it.

I'm all for counterplay, but over buffing abilities because people can't spec appropriately is a bit BS.

I'm not pigeon holed here, I have the other classes to go to. However I just hate to see my prefered playstyle destroyed for no good reason.

I personally feel it's right where it needs to be. I understand why you feel the way you do, but I still think this is what mage light should have been since the start. Now it's not "on" all the time, it has to be cast, so gankers can still catch people unprepared. You'll just be caught by those who are prepared, but it's not stopping you from spamming your gap closer and fearing me, to gap close again. it just means I'll see you before you do it. It'll also stop the whole BS of wasting resources looking for a NB while they gain theirs back. (like the rest of us have to do).

So you would be ok if say; (Just one of the issues with the skill)

A dks was flapping wings and you had no visual indicator that he was using it?

A Templar was cleansing, but had no visual que?

A Sorc had Hardened up but there was no visual?

How do you propose you alter your gameplay tactfully to deal with these situations? I suppose you could just attack and find out.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

I like that NBs yelled at everyone to use radiant as a counter to cloak, and when we said it wasn't strong enough to be a hard counter to cloak like they claimed it was they said we all needed to l2p, now it is actually worth using, and worth suggesting to mag players as a viable option and they're all crying... Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned fear yet? It didnt get any nerf as far as I can tell, fear, rapid maneuver away and then cloak up. Are you guys mad you now have to slot skills to counter other classes like the rest of us have had to do?

They over buffed it, coupled with Cloak's changes it is just over the top now.

Pretty sure you would be a bit pissed if there was an ability that removed your hardened ward, and prevented it from recasting every 5 seconds on use.

While being available to every spec, and being so attractive that 90% of builds you run into will have it.

I'm all for counterplay, but over buffing abilities because people can't spec appropriately is a bit BS.

I'm not pigeon holed here, I have the other classes to go to. However I just hate to see my prefered playstyle destroyed for no good reason.

I personally feel it's right where it needs to be. I understand why you feel the way you do, but I still think this is what mage light should have been since the start. Now it's not "on" all the time, it has to be cast, so gankers can still catch people unprepared. You'll just be caught by those who are prepared, but it's not stopping you from spamming your gap closer and fearing me, to gap close again. it just means I'll see you before you do it. It'll also stop the whole BS of wasting resources looking for a NB while they gain theirs back. (like the rest of us have to do).

So you would be ok if say; (Just one of the issues with the skill)

A dks was flapping wings and you had no visual indicator that he was using it?

A Templar was cleansing, but had no visual que?

A Sorc had Hardened up but there was no visual?

How do you propose you alter your gameplay tactfully to deal with these situations? I suppose you could just attack and find out.

That's exactly what people have had to deal with with NB's though with their cloak. You don't see that they got it until they use it in your face and disappears. Only thing we can do is to "attack and find out"

Exactly this, except in most cases I don't even get the "attack" part, I get the "find out"

Drakilian wrote: »

By the way: I realize I'm being aggressively sarcastic and more than a little bit insulting and I'm sorry for that, I just find it so frustrating that so many people indulge in such obviously self-destructive behaviours in MMOs - the entire point of an MMO, particularly something like our Cyrodill, is the fight against other people. *** like cloak and it's abuse is the kind of stuff that drives people from the game, or makes them hate it, and when a proper counter is installed and radiant magelight is made not-useless, I feel so happy because it means more people will enjoy the game - and then I come onto the forums and I see THIS, and I can't help but think to myself, why would you do something so stupid?

Oh trust me ..there will be even more tears about NB ganking because now every NB will have to run gank style builds to be viable in PvP. StamBlade gankers never relied on stealth for fighting in open field PvP as they only need it for positioning. They will still kill plenty of targets before they even get a chance to pop magelight.

It is the magicka sustain/skirmisher builds like mine that are destroyed. Ones designed for open field/siege PvP, where by the way there are not to many 'corners' to slip around ....LOL at your comment 'Turn a corner'.

You are being overly aggressive but I understand where it is coming from as I have had to defend against StamNB gank builds and its no easy task for me even as a fellow NB. As of this patch though I will not stand a chance against them and will be forced to join them as the only viable playstyle will be to gank target fast before they pop magelight or shortly thereafter. Sustained interesting fights will be a thing of the past for my magickaNB.

Its just a classic over reach.

Yes, cloak was OP in some ways. A reasonable change would be a cost increase per cast so that it can't be spammed.

But now you create an ability that is much more OP. What ability can anyone slot in this game which provides the following?

1) Give 10% spell crit just for being slotted
2) Gives 56% damage reduction from stealth attacks for being slotted
3) Gives immunity to stuns from stealth for being slotted
4) Adds 2% Max Mag and Mag Regen for being slotted
5) Gives 12 meters of Stealth Detection when activated
6) Grants Empower when activated

This ability is so powerful that everyone will use it. It will make Stealth attacks for all players irrelevant, not just cloak. It will make some classes more powerful, but will make Mag Sorcs OP.

I'm just proposing they revisit this. Maybe take away the damage reduction from stealth, or don't let it grant empower when used. Or leave Magelight the way it is, and do a cost increase to cloak. Don't replace something that is OP with something that is more OP.