why isn't there the option to choose every ability to scale off of stamina or magicka

found1779 · December 2015

Why is there only a few abilities that scale off of stamina for example sorcerer why can't I use every ability I got and get the choice if it scales off of stamina or magicka I can't even use hardened ward cause it scales off of magicka why doesn't moves like that have the option to scale off stamina there isn't even a burst damage move for a stamina sorcerer I know people will probably say wrecking blow but I mean out of stamina abilities there isn't Crystal shards needs to scale off stamina or magicka let the person decide

Matherios · December 2015

found1779 wrote: »

Why is there only a few abilities that scale off of stamina for example sorcerer why can't I use every ability I got and get the choice if it scales off of stamina or magicka I can't even use hardened ward cause it scales off of magicka why doesn't moves like that have the option to scale off stamina there isn't even a burst damage move for a stamina sorcerer I know people will probably say wrecking blow but I mean out of stamina abilities there isn't Crystal shards needs to scale off stamina or magicka let the person decide

because imagine a stamina nightblade with magicka detonation and a stamina sorc with hardenward only those 2 examples think and you will see why not.

dday3six · December 2015

The simpliest answer is in the questions - How would make either stamina or magicka be unique if they were basically clones differing only by drawing from different reasource pools. Why would anyone use magicka, if stamina did all the same things, but also got to block, dodge and break free more effectly thanks to stacking that resource pool?

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2015

found1779 wrote: »

Why is there only a few abilities that scale off of stamina for example sorcerer why can't I use every ability I got and get the choice if it scales off of stamina or magicka I can't even use hardened ward cause it scales off of magicka why doesn't moves like that have the option to scale off stamina there isn't even a burst damage move for a stamina sorcerer I know people will probably say wrecking blow but I mean out of stamina abilities there isn't Crystal shards needs to scale off stamina or magicka let the person decide

I actually agree with the OP, this game was built in the beginning as class skills to be all run by Magicka and Weapons to run off Stamina causing great imbalance. It wasn't until much later that ZOS actually changed some morph's to being Stamina based when it came to class skills.

This is still not even game wise IMO, as they should make all abilities scale, like Ultimates do, off the highest Attribute. This will give much more diversification amongst players and Magicka and Stamina builds. of course tweaks would have to be done..

Or they could just make the Magicka attribute be called Power and have everything (all class skills) run off that Attribute, including all weapons, and let Blocking, Dodge rolling and sneaking be used from the Stamina stat and nothing else.

That would make it even..

ginoboehm · December 2015

because it would be impossible to balance. furthermore would all abilities change the type of damage they do too? or stay magicka elemental or physical damage like they do now regardless of morph (there are magicka costing abilities that deal physical damage and vice-versa). magicka gives utility stamina the higher damage (at least in pvp since dots are not that dominating there and magicka has a stronger mitigation) if you change anything on that you will have endless tanking high damage dealing monsters again

Mettaricana · December 2015

I disagree on this I think more things should become stamina based but some things should just stay magicka. But the resource pools and dmgs should be tweaked in a way to allow mpre viable hybrids

DannyLV702 · December 2015

Can you imagine me with crystal frags and wrecking blow lol

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2015

Because it would hurt some poor little PvE'ers immersions to have an ability like Sorcerer Crystal Fragments cost stamina. So what actually happens? Does the sorc sneeze really hard and summon a purple crystal booger?

It would help the game and balance to have stam and magicka versions of every ability but immersion fetishists would cry.

These are the same people that got our ground oils nerfed. Best anti-zerg in the game but some people couldn't stand to see someone setting up an oil pot in an open field and spilling it on the ground.

TL;DR: MAH IMMERZUNZ

pronkg · December 2015

Ooeh magicka wreckingblow proccing crystal frags! with magicka caltrops!

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

dday3six wrote: »

The simpliest answer is in the questions - How would make either stamina or magicka be unique if they were basically clones differing only by drawing from different reasource pools. Why would anyone use magicka, if stamina did all the same things, but also got to block, dodge and break free more effectly thanks to stacking that resource pool?

You make the morphs or skills different for each type, duh. You don't make carbon copy skills...How difficult is that to understand?

It's pretty simple, class trees should have both sta and magicka abilities to make builds for each type. IMO, they kind of screwed themselves in the design of this game splitting the resource pools like that.

Enodoc · December 2015

In lore, spells are based on magicka. I was surprised at just how many abilities they could make non-magical that they could then base on stamina, but there would be absolutely no logic at all to lobbing a fireball (eg Templar Sun Fire) based on your stamina.

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

In lore, spells are based on magicka. I was surprised at just how many abilities they could make non-magical that they could then base on stamina, but there would be absolutely no logic at all to lobbing a fireball (eg Templar Sun Fire) based on your stamina.

Then there is a huge combat mechanics issue to this game. Following your logic, STA builds would have zero skills in the skill tree. For STA builds magicka based attacks would be pretty useless. Also, morphs don't have to be like basic the skill. You are thinking in a small box. For example, to resolve this with your lore, the STA morph for that Templar ability could be a flaming spear. Make sense?

Just an ounce of creativity can go a long way in this game. This is not complicated at all.

Lenikus · December 2015

As a stamina Nightblade who advocates to remove all damage caps and debuffs in cyrodiil, I fully support of this thread in order to get sum magicka det and funnel health in my bar.
Can i also get my ultimate Soul Tether to deal physical damage?

I_killed_Vivec · December 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

In lore, spells are based on magicka. I was surprised at just how many abilities they could make non-magical that they could then base on stamina, but there would be absolutely no logic at all to lobbing a fireball (eg Templar Sun Fire) based on your stamina.

Which makes perfect sense until you consider how powerful your spell would be (or your weapon attacks).

Why are your spells more powerful if you have more magica? It makes sense that you can use them more often because you have a greater pool of resources. It even makes sense that you can use more powerful spells because they cost more.

But it does not make sense that the power of an action should scale off how much of a resource you have.

To make sense, the power of a skill should scale off your overall level, your level of proficiency at that skill and the resource cost of the skill.

It would probably be a simpler system, would encourage hybrid builds, and would definitely stop people asking for stam whips

myrrrorb14_ESO · December 2015

I would love to have more options.

Add a layer of morphs. The first morph you decide between the Stamina and Magicka trees. Then later morph into two separate choices.

This gives every character the opportunity to use their limited class abilities no matter which side they go and since everything is seperate, it should be easier to balance.

Lenikus · December 2015

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

I would love to have more options.

Add a layer of morphs. The first morph you decide between the Stamina and Magicka trees. Then later morph into two separate choices.

This gives every character the opportunity to use their limited class abilities no matter which side they go and since everything is seperate, it should be easier to balance.

Totally. Pretty much multiplyin' the current number of skills by 3 is absolutely going to prevent any new skill to be OP when compared to others, Specially when they can scale on stacked up weapon OR spell damage.

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

For the record, I agree 100% with the OP. Couldn't agree with you more @found1779 . ZOS got the two resource pools completely wrong and all skills in the game should be based off of magicka except running and roll dodging which should be stamina(pure combat avoidance). OR they need to have as many STA abilities in class trees.

I'm sorry but the lore people crack me up. They can resolve a skill in Rally in the two handed weapon tree that heals you as "acceptable stamina ability by lore" but not STA morphs in class trees. Really?

myrrrorb14_ESO · December 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

In lore, spells are based on magicka. I was surprised at just how many abilities they could make non-magical that they could then base on stamina, but there would be absolutely no logic at all to lobbing a fireball (eg Templar Sun Fire) based on your stamina.

I always liked to think of two different magic users. The wizard, eso manipulates the external forces of the universe to do his bidding. And the sorcerer, who harnesses the power within his own being to affect the universe.

The wizard would be the magicka user. He would deplete his ability to focus the energies.

And the sorcerer would be the stamina user. Becoming physically exhausted from the efforts.

So I can twist fireballs into my stamina build

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

In lore, spells are based on magicka. I was surprised at just how many abilities they could make non-magical that they could then base on stamina, but there would be absolutely no logic at all to lobbing a fireball (eg Templar Sun Fire) based on your stamina.

I always liked to think of two different magic users. The wizard, eso manipulates the external forces of the universe to do his bidding. And the sorcerer, who harnesses the power within his own being to affect the universe.

The wizard would be the magicka user. He would deplete his ability to focus the energies.

And the sorcerer would be the stamina user. Becoming physically exhausted from the efforts.

So I can twist fireballs into my stamina build

Yeah, the whole lore thing is just really rigid thinking and actually makes no sense if you think about the other stamina based skills in the game. You have stamina based skills that do fire damage, magic damage, heal you, etc... So the whole lore argument doesn't even make sense the way the game is right now.

nemo284b16_ESO · December 2015

I agree with the OP. I would love to see such option.

Holycannoli · December 2015

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

The simpliest answer is in the questions - How would make either stamina or magicka be unique if they were basically clones differing only by drawing from different reasource pools. Why would anyone use magicka, if stamina did all the same things, but also got to block, dodge and break free more effectly thanks to stacking that resource pool?

You make the morphs or skills different for each type, duh. You don't make carbon copy skills...How difficult is that to understand?

It's pretty simple, class trees should have both sta and magicka abilities to make builds for each type. IMO, they kind of screwed themselves in the design of this game splitting the resource pools like that.

They can add more than two morphs per class skill and at least one of them can be for the other resource. In another thread I used examples for sorcerer that I thought of while typing (so no thought went into them) - Mage's Fury can get a new stamina morph that adds a Bound Weapon doing physical and shock damage, and Lightning Splash can get a new morph that slams the ground doing PBAOE physical damage. Each class skill can have a magicka and stamina morph if they wanted, and IMO more variety is sorely needed in this game.

The limit of two morphs per skill is self-imposed. They can add as many morphs as they can come up with, and each one doesn't necessarily have to closely mirror the original skill (because how do you make a lightning bolt stamina-based?).

Fuzzywuzzy196 · December 2015

Holycannoli wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

The simpliest answer is in the questions - How would make either stamina or magicka be unique if they were basically clones differing only by drawing from different reasource pools. Why would anyone use magicka, if stamina did all the same things, but also got to block, dodge and break free more effectly thanks to stacking that resource pool?

You make the morphs or skills different for each type, duh. You don't make carbon copy skills...How difficult is that to understand?

It's pretty simple, class trees should have both sta and magicka abilities to make builds for each type. IMO, they kind of screwed themselves in the design of this game splitting the resource pools like that.

They can add more than two morphs per class skill and at least one of them can be for the other resource. In another thread I used examples for sorcerer that I thought of while typing (so no thought went into them) - Mage's Fury can get a new stamina morph that adds a Bound Weapon doing physical and shock damage, and Lightning Splash can get a new morph that slams the ground doing PBAOE physical damage. Each class skill can have a magicka and stamina morph if they wanted, and IMO more variety is sorely needed in this game.

The limit of two morphs per skill is self-imposed. They can add as many morphs as they can come up with, and each one doesn't necessarily have to closely mirror the original skill (because how do you make a lightning bolt stamina-based?).

This. Thank you for saying what was running through my mind while reading the rest of the responses.

Asherons_Call · December 2015

There are certain morphs that will switch from stam to magica and vice versa, but that would be amazing for a one click switch of everything

Asherons_Call · December 2015

I would love to be able to use the fighters guild skill line as magica based. I'd be tearing through some deadra!

Hand_Bacon · December 2015

I like Burger King.

I pay for a stamina Templar and I know what I'm getting and not getting.

I pay for a magicka Templar and I know what I'm getting and not getting.

I know better than to load one wishing I was the other...

Or maybe we're upset that Burger King can't make their fries taste like a whopper. Bastids!

Jar_Ek · December 2015

Tbh if we had 3 morphs per class skill (hell technically all skills) you could have one magicka, one stamina and one other (utility costing magicka or even both). This would allow the stamina morphs to be appropriately scaled and balanced...
So no hardened ward, but maybe a health ward?

NeillMcAttack · December 2015

This question doesn't make any sense.
If this were the case everyone would just use stamina and as such medium armor. I could literally just make some new gear and change morphs to be the strongest healer, tank, or DPS possible depending on my skill bars. No need for att. points in magicka or health, no need for points in light or heavy armor etc.

Now granted i wouldn't be against some class abilities getting different unique morphs of either magicka or stamina, but just making any skill scale off of whatever resource we want??! Totally removes any unique feel you have playing your character and build and slowly over time everyone's skill bars and gear would be so similar (even more so than all the FOTM magicka builds we see now).

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Oh believe me how I wish for more stamina morph of DK skills/spells. Like come one ZOS you can atleast make choking talons stamina it deals physical damage for the sake of Ysgramors beard make it a stamina morph.

Corellon Thromorin · December 2015

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

In lore, spells are based on magicka. I was surprised at just how many abilities they could make non-magical that they could then base on stamina, but there would be absolutely no logic at all to lobbing a fireball (eg Templar Sun Fire) based on your stamina.

I always liked to think of two different magic users. The wizard, eso manipulates the external forces of the universe to do his bidding. And the sorcerer, who harnesses the power within his own being to affect the universe.

The wizard would be the magicka user. He would deplete his ability to focus the energies.

And the sorcerer would be the stamina user. Becoming physically exhausted from the efforts.

So I can twist fireballs into my stamina build

Yeah, the whole lore thing is just really rigid thinking and actually makes no sense if you think about the other stamina based skills in the game. You have stamina based skills that do fire damage, magic damage, heal you, etc... So the whole game doesn't even make sense the way it is right now.

fixed

PBpsy · December 2015

Lenikus wrote: »

As a stamina Nightblade who advocates to remove all damage caps and debuffs in cyrodiil, I fully support of this thread in order to get sum magicka det and funnel health in my bar.
Can i also get my ultimate Soul Tether to deal physical damage?

So in the end the only reason you want to use stamina is because you like green better than blue?

danno8 · December 2015

This game is a balancing nightmare thanks to resource pools doing too many things.

Magicka = utility, defense (shields, healing), offense (damage magnitude and volume), mobility,

Stamina = utility, defense (dodge, block, healing), offense (damage magnitude and volume), mobility

In trying to keep the mmo feel like the single player games, the dev's shot themselves in the foot by not creating resource pools that are more distinct and don't try to do everything.

It's just a mess. So now you have stamina abilities that have a definite magical look to them, with no clear difference between Magicka and stamina.