Vamps and elusive mist

Runkorko · December 2015

My main is DK, magica DK. After the no stam regen in block changes, i find elusive mist the only way to escape. No, i wont complain about roots and slows in mist form, i know she gives you imune only to skills like fear and stuns. The problem is, in IC sewers for example, when zerg hits you, you pop mist form and open a map to see where to run (ok this may sounds "noobish" but i dont have whole IC map in my head) and guess what... opening map cansel transformation. I loged on my alts and i test do this happens to skills like boundles storm, quick cloack or rapid maneuver and they work good. Same with hasty retreat and path of darknes. We (vamps) are already undergods in pvp (even in pve some ppl refuse to do dungeon with us because fire love us so much, we take double dmg from stealthed camouflaged hunter, we take bonus dmg from fighters guild pasives even if we are not in mist form, not draining live or not have bat swarm poped. My question to ZoS is. I know you want to balance this game badly, but how the diference between WW and Vamp is so huge? Vamps - no high dmg skill at all, easily interupted (and useless) life drain, good only for low cost CC, taking bonus dmg from fire + bonus dmg from fighter guid skills and pasives (not when chanelig vamp skills but all the time) comapred to WW - no bonus dmg taken in human form, OP when transformed, with high burst and self heal + aoe CC and he easily counter the bonus dmg from poison and fighters guild with the armor bonus he recieve when transformed . Dont get me wrong, WW dont need nerf, not at all, but PLS show vamps some love. Fixing elusive mist and remove the bonuss dmg taken when you dont use /chanel/ vamp skills will be nice. Yes, you may conuter me with " but you recieve hide dmg reduce when you are below 50% hp, Yes the reduce is huge but reduce is aplied only to hits you take when you are already below X% hp. With bonus dmg we take most of the time we die in 2 hits. If ZoS remove the bonus dmg from fighter guild when we not use vamp skills I`l gladly sacrafice this pasiv.And two more things i get from @WreckfulAbandon post : 1:Camo Hunter should not proc the stealth bonus more than once. Period. If more calculations are necessary to make this happen then so be it., 2:If you're a vamp/werewolf, you shouldn't need a skill slotted to enjoy the perks thereof, cause DB will still wreck you without it.

Thanks and keep a good work

Tankqull · December 2015

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info605-MiniMapbyFyrakin.html
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info365-LightWeightMinimap.html
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info60-ZrMiniMap.html

might help

and vamps are strong enough as they are no buff needed - maybe beside a small change in stage times

Runkorko · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info605-MiniMapbyFyrakin.html
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info365-LightWeightMinimap.html
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info60-ZrMiniMap.html

might help

and vamps are strong enough as they are no buff needed - maybe beside a small change in stage times

Thanks for the links mate. I already use AUI and he have minimap option but i disable it because i prefer clear screen. About vamps strong enough - how we are strong when we get vaporized from one skill ? camohunter or dawnbreaker of smiting. Do the WW get insta killed by any skill? or regular "human". And what bonusses vamps have to make them strong? 10% more stam and magica regen? ZoS already killed hybrid setups so we can get benefit only from our higest regen. Do you even seen one of the proven PvPers (nm solo or grp playing ones) use vamp? no they all say vamp is squishy and they are right. Vamp is good for solo stealth 1 hit build or for rolleplay. So many downsides for 10% regen pale skin and red eyes ....

Tankqull · December 2015

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Runkorko · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

ostrapz · December 2015

Vamps and ww fall to my dawnbreaker!! But seriously though werewolf needs to b slotted cuz people were takig the 15% stam boost and not using ww, not suffering from poison debuff in human form. Camo hunter is a bit outta control, my vamp friend got disintegrated in 1 hit the other day. The main benefit to vamp has always seemed to be the bats and reduced cost for them which is definitely one of the strongest ultimates as well as one of the cheapest with the stafe 4 vamp.

eliisra · December 2015

Vampire, the actual skill line, is okay. These massive problems related to vampire in PvP, comes from other stuff being stupid.

While Mist Form should make you immune to cc, it's not making you immune to the mini-stun from gap closers. As soon as someone pops Mist and tries to kite, people will abuse this design flaw and he will be unable to move forward(even when not rooted). Gap closers, needs fixing.

Camouflage Hunter, combined with the design of sneak attacks, ignores the cool-down of the skill proc. So you get hit with 2-3 proc's almost simultaneously, together with 2-3 other attacks and insta-die.

You have the vampires crying about it or just curing, than this wall of silence, from ZoS. Also a salty attitude from half the community thinking vamps deserves instant death, because Van Helsing wannabe. But on the bright side, more and more people playing WW now, since it goes well with fotm stamina burst builds. They're complaining about getting instakilled to. Might encourage ZoS to redesign Camo Hunter or look at the mechanics behind sneak attacks.

Tankqull · December 2015

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

Runkorko · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

We actualy recive 10% to our main resource regen / other 10% are meh because as i said ZoS killed hyrbrid builds and even if there stil sm1 run with high stam and magica regen at the same time to get full benefit from Supernatural Recovery he sacrafice health regen. For stealth i said before - vamp is good for solo stealth hunter build. For stun from stealth- any stealth attacks stuns so you cant complain about it. And Savage Feeding do no dmg.

Zimm · December 2015

I think WW is finally in a good place, I don't play one anymore but I do think up until this point it was a bit lacking. Vampires on the other hand, I've cured any chars I have with it (after respeccing ofc because you wont be refunded skill points, thanks for that Zeni, take my gold.) Because Vamp just kind of sucks, I found it manageable if you run max stat buffs, Health, Magick, Stam, opposed to Regen, but damn Zeni, with how high we can stack Wep dmg now just give vamp a damn buff.

Alucardo · December 2015

GreenSoup2HoT · December 2015

Here are some additional issues we’re considering based on your feedback from this thread:

• Multiple gap closers used on the same target means they can’t move
• Cammo hunter stealth attacks can double proc, killing targets very quickly

Got this from the Wrobel aoe cap thread.

So us vampire's only have to endure this for a little while longer. The camo hunter thing is probably change soon and mist form hopefully will be fixed while they fix gap closers.

I will never drop vampire though, i'm always sneaking around.

Stage timers do need to be looked at though. They need to be swapped around.

Tankqull · December 2015

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

We actualy recive 10% to our main resource regen / other 10% are meh because as i said ZoS killed hyrbrid builds and even if there stil sm1 run with high stam and magica regen at the same time to get full benefit from Supernatural Recovery he sacrafice health regen. For stealth i said before - vamp is good for solo stealth hunter build. For stun from stealth- any stealth attacks stuns so you cant complain about it. And Savage Feeding do no dmg.

well if you cant see the advantage of your utility/cc breakpool regrate increasement - any further discussion is moot anyway.

Runkorko · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

We actualy recive 10% to our main resource regen / other 10% are meh because as i said ZoS killed hyrbrid builds and even if there stil sm1 run with high stam and magica regen at the same time to get full benefit from Supernatural Recovery he sacrafice health regen. For stealth i said before - vamp is good for solo stealth hunter build. For stun from stealth- any stealth attacks stuns so you cant complain about it. And Savage Feeding do no dmg.

well if you cant see the advantage of your utility/cc breakpool regrate increasement - any further discussion is moot anyway.

are you vamp? No? Why ?

zornyan · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

We actualy recive 10% to our main resource regen / other 10% are meh because as i said ZoS killed hyrbrid builds and even if there stil sm1 run with high stam and magica regen at the same time to get full benefit from Supernatural Recovery he sacrafice health regen. For stealth i said before - vamp is good for solo stealth hunter build. For stun from stealth- any stealth attacks stuns so you cant complain about it. And Savage Feeding do no dmg.

well if you cant see the advantage of your utility/cc breakpool regrate increasement - any further discussion is moot anyway.

Not really,

My stamplar has no use for magicka regen, his only magicka dump is rune focus which costs something absurd like 400 magicka and can restore over 120 every 0.5 seconds.

That 10% is something like 50 every two seconds. He has no other use for magicka.

My magi temp doesn't the 10% stam regen, she has 800, 80 every couple of seconds is basically completly un noticeable, it makes such a small small differ3nce, when something like break free costs 3k stamina. It would need about 3 minutes to give enough stam to get one break free out of it, I would rather another 5 or 10% buff to my main resource recovery, as that would be added onto a much higher stat and provide much more utility.

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Here are some additional issues we’re considering based on your feedback from this thread:

• Multiple gap closers used on the same target means they can’t move
• Cammo hunter stealth attacks can double proc, killing targets very quickly

Got this from the Wrobel aoe cap thread.

So us vampire's only have to endure this for a little while longer. The camo hunter thing is probably change soon and mist form hopefully will be fixed while they fix gap closers.

I will never drop vampire though, i'm always sneaking around.

Stage timers do need to be looked at though. They need to be swapped around.

They also need some benefit to stage one, I almost never see a vamp that isn't at stage 4 because that one has benefits that outweigh the disadvantages. hows about something like fighters guild abilities have 85% less bonus effects on you at stage 1 and the full effect at stage 4 also at stage 1 you are not weak against fire. if you feed at a stage higher than 1 the feeding does damage that increases with your stage.

Tankqull · December 2015

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

We actualy recive 10% to our main resource regen / other 10% are meh because as i said ZoS killed hyrbrid builds and even if there stil sm1 run with high stam and magica regen at the same time to get full benefit from Supernatural Recovery he sacrafice health regen. For stealth i said before - vamp is good for solo stealth hunter build. For stun from stealth- any stealth attacks stuns so you cant complain about it. And Savage Feeding do no dmg.

well if you cant see the advantage of your utility/cc breakpool regrate increasement - any further discussion is moot anyway.

are you vamp? No? Why ?

i am.

Runkorko · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

We actualy recive 10% to our main resource regen / other 10% are meh because as i said ZoS killed hyrbrid builds and even if there stil sm1 run with high stam and magica regen at the same time to get full benefit from Supernatural Recovery he sacrafice health regen. For stealth i said before - vamp is good for solo stealth hunter build. For stun from stealth- any stealth attacks stuns so you cant complain about it. And Savage Feeding do no dmg.

well if you cant see the advantage of your utility/cc breakpool regrate increasement - any further discussion is moot anyway.

are you vamp? No? Why ?

i am.

can you post your stats / to show us stam and magicka regen value (buffed)

Tankqull · December 2015

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

wws are insta melted by those two abilities aswell as they are magic based and thus not armor but resistance affected. and on top of that poison is as destructive to them as fire is to us vamps.

Agree but ww can choose when to take dmg or not. You take bonus dmg only in ww form and you can counter with heals. which costs mana and not lower your damage potencial and is HoT. Vamps take bonus dmg all the time . This needs to be changed. As WW you can transform /which aply aoe cc/ you recieve +18% to your dmg you 2 hits maul smoneone and if you need you can take distance fast. I wont cure my vampirism even if they nerf us even more. But balance is needed

Lets say you are ww and i`m vamp. You recive +15% regen without take any bonus dmg, I recive 10% and i take x% dmg more all the time. What i have more than you and why i should take more dmg. Is simple.

yeah you have 20% resource reggen, 30% stealth speed increasement, a significant dmg reduction the less health you have and a free ability stunning your opponent not even requireing a qb slot.

so i would say that balances it out significantly as the 3 abilitys provided aswell are quite nice on top especially if you consider their unlimited availability.

We actualy recive 10% to our main resource regen / other 10% are meh because as i said ZoS killed hyrbrid builds and even if there stil sm1 run with high stam and magica regen at the same time to get full benefit from Supernatural Recovery he sacrafice health regen. For stealth i said before - vamp is good for solo stealth hunter build. For stun from stealth- any stealth attacks stuns so you cant complain about it. And Savage Feeding do no dmg.

well if you cant see the advantage of your utility/cc breakpool regrate increasement - any further discussion is moot anyway.

are you vamp? No? Why ?

i am.

can you post your stats / to show us stam and magicka regen value (buffed)

sure (i hate pveing so my traits are horrible :P - no pots involved)

GreenSoup2HoT · December 2015

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Here are some additional issues we’re considering based on your feedback from this thread:

• Multiple gap closers used on the same target means they can’t move
• Cammo hunter stealth attacks can double proc, killing targets very quickly

Got this from the Wrobel aoe cap thread.

So us vampire's only have to endure this for a little while longer. The camo hunter thing is probably change soon and mist form hopefully will be fixed while they fix gap closers.

I will never drop vampire though, i'm always sneaking around.

Stage timers do need to be looked at though. They need to be swapped around.

They also need some benefit to stage one, I almost never see a vamp that isn't at stage 4 because that one has benefits that outweigh the disadvantages. hows about something like fighters guild abilities have 85% less bonus effects on you at stage 1 and the full effect at stage 4 also at stage 1 you are not weak against fire. if you feed at a stage higher than 1 the feeding does damage that increases with your stage.

I agree. As one of the first vampires around on console (i got bit by a pc transfer) i will never drop it. It's one of those things i just had so much fun with.

Stage timer's need to be reworked. I personally do not use bat swarm as my main ultimate, it's soul harvest. However i stick to stage 4 because it's to much of a hassle to maintain stage 1. I would much rather see stage one have at least a 3 hour timer.

Does it make sense for a healthy vampire to feed every 30 min's? It would make sense for lower stage's to be so hungry but as a healthy vampire.. i dunno. This is long over due.

As for the advantages / disadvantages, they need a rework to. However there is no point touching this until stage timer's are.