The shield breaker set, issue's

ToRelax · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I will say that there are hordes of trashcan light attack spamming shield breaker scrubs in Cyrodiil these days and I leave their corpse behind evry time. I've only died to one player using shield breaker to date, Sabre Ali and we're pretty evenly matched without him using it but when he uses it I'm on easy mode for him to kill because both of my healing options are completely negated by him through cloak + blocking.

I think the set is probably too strong right now but I'm not crying about it. Most of the people using that it are the stamina equivalent of the people you see using the Phoenix set....they're AP Walking.

It´s only a problem in 1v1 if you´re evenly matched against a stam DK or a NB and only in combination with a bow.

1vX it´s the same. Things get really uncomfortable when there´s a bow involved and you can´t reach the sb user.

Btw don´t bash on phoenix set. It´s really undervalued for soloing (if you´re a vampire).

It's great on paper but I've killed so many players using it now it never saves them. You can wind up and fire an overload to hit the moment the phoenix invulnerability is removed making the 5 piece bonus basically basically 3 second extension on your death. So many terrible magicka users have gravitated towards that set.....

When I am playing solo, I'll fight multiple opponents for a challenge, so they aren't very good and I'll likely manage to get back into the fight if I have some magicka/stamina left or a potion ready.
In small groups it's even better since you can cast a Healing Ward on someone in statue form and disable opponents who would otherwise prepare to burst that guy down.

Darnathian · October 2015

Wolfahm wrote: »

Any Sorc with a brain stem can win vs someone spamming light attacks. the ONLY time shield breaker is effective is when you come across a sorc in a 1v10 farming scrubs or just a REALLY bad player. Basically a whole legion of sorcs were under the impression they were skilled due to being unhitable for so long.. when these same bad players see the HP bar drop the only reaction they have is to spam more shields( I have seen a sorc reapply a shield 9 times in a row well taking breaker hits 1v1).. Slot some heals.. stop being stupid... fight back rather then shield spam... stop thinking you have the right to win 1v10

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

This ^^^^^. So many fotm that don't have a clue what to do besides spamming shields.

That being said, the set is ***. Should have removed shield stacking or spam penalty.

Derra · October 2015

ostrapz wrote: »

@FriedEggSandwich attribute points in hp ; )

Max HP literally mean nothing if you´re lacking the means to keep them up. The problem is not the hp pool but the hps your able to put out (which is the main problem of playing a sorc without a shield).

Darnathian wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

Any Sorc with a brain stem can win vs someone spamming light attacks. the ONLY time shield breaker is effective is when you come across a sorc in a 1v10 farming scrubs or just a REALLY bad player. Basically a whole legion of sorcs were under the impression they were skilled due to being unhitable for so long.. when these same bad players see the HP bar drop the only reaction they have is to spam more shields( I have seen a sorc reapply a shield 9 times in a row well taking breaker hits 1v1).. Slot some heals.. stop being stupid... fight back rather then shield spam... stop thinking you have the right to win 1v10

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

This ^^^^^. So many fotm that don't have a clue what to do besides spamming shields.

That being said, the set is ***. Should have removed shield stacking or spam penalty.

The set is irony at it´s best. I´m doing better the more shields i have against players using it.

byrom101b16_ESO · November 2015

Anyone genuinely proposing that a magicka Sorc with enough damage output and sustain to make them capable of killing ANYTHING in PvP can play effectively without shields is the equivalent of the village idiot.

I have, and unless skills change, never will see a shieldless magicka Sorc. build that works.

'Learn to heal like other classes' is a remark almost perfect in it's ignorance of the fact the class has no primary heal skills, with only secondary and unreliable heals at best.

Those claiming to regularly kill anyone with any skill at all and this set with their magicka Sorc. is blowing smoke, and should either post a video or stop making stuff up.

I had a good go with a friends stam. NB DW/Bow in the sewers last week and it was farcically easy to choose the right moment to attack from stealth and kill any shield user with the same routine, over and over and over.

I didn't see ONE Sorcerer amongst those who wasn't using shields against mobs, and hardly a one who had the time to realise I was attacking, then closing, then fearing and all the while getting skill-less cheap shots in for just over 2.5K unmitigated on their actively unremovable shield. If the circumstances saw the shield go down while they were still alive then it was just as easy to kill them fast. The worst I suffered was 1.5 second stuns from attempts to escape with my hand hovering over the teleport strike button, and every now and again a point blank frags from an aggressive BE user who reacted fast and didn't make the mistake of running.

I don't play NB regularly at all, and yet I just couldn't lose. as far as Sorcs were concerned, my opponents very few options were known to me and the initial overwhelming advantage in the fight practically handed a win to me on a silver platter.

Now I have had my 1 hour's tuition and 5 hours play as a NB I can confirm without a doubt how easy they are to PvP with in IC, and what an utter joke their players are when they whine that they are easily countered, and that this set isn't a wet dream for them.

By alternating areas and farming players intelligently I got nearly 27K stones in that time, and had to kill very few mobs. I can only imagine how ezemode it is for experienced players with a well-geared and 300+ CP toon.

Ridiculous. Unbalanced. Joke.

Ganj · November 2015

Pff this is really absurd. If you dont want to get hit by shield breaker then do not stack shield. No need to setup a macro and try useless things. Shield breaker set is an option, personally i dont wear it on my NB usually. But if there is a sorcerer with 30k shield excuse but that is really stupid to deal with. My main sorc aswell and i also admit that is hard to survive againts shield breaker if you are doing 1vX. But 1v1 its not that over powered.

byrom101b16_ESO · November 2015

Ganj wrote: »

Pff this is really absurd. If you dont want to get hit by shield breaker then do not stack shield. No need to setup a macro and try useless things. Shield breaker set is an option, personally i dont wear it on my NB usually. But if there is a sorcerer with 30k shield excuse but that is really stupid to deal with. My main sorc aswell and i also admit that is hard to survive againts shield breaker if you are doing 1vX. But 1v1 its not that over powered.

Once again, if your class relies on a shield, and you cannot turn the shield off, then this set is OP against you.

Which bit of this self-evident truism don't you comprehend?

Ichnaea · November 2015

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Anyone genuinely proposing that a magicka Sorc with enough damage output and sustain to make them capable of killing ANYTHING in PvP can play effectively without shields is the equivalent of the village idiot.

I have, and unless skills change, never will see a shieldless magicka Sorc. build that works.

'Learn to heal like other classes' is a remark almost perfect in it's ignorance of the fact the class has no primary heal skills, with only secondary and unreliable heals at best.

Those claiming to regularly kill anyone with any skill at all and this set with their magicka Sorc. is blowing smoke, and should either post a video or stop making stuff up.

I had a good go with a friends stam. NB DW/Bow in the sewers last week and it was farcically easy to choose the right moment to attack from stealth and kill any shield user with the same routine, over and over and over.

I didn't see ONE Sorcerer amongst those who wasn't using shields against mobs, and hardly a one who had the time to realise I was attacking, then closing, then fearing and all the while getting skill-less cheap shots in for just over 2.5K unmitigated on their actively unremovable shield. If the circumstances saw the shield go down while they were still alive then it was just as easy to kill them fast. The worst I suffered was 1.5 second stuns from attempts to escape with my hand hovering over the teleport strike button, and every now and again a point blank frags from an aggressive BE user who reacted fast and didn't make the mistake of running.

I don't play NB regularly at all, and yet I just couldn't lose. as far as Sorcs were concerned, my opponents very few options were known to me and the initial overwhelming advantage in the fight practically handed a win to me on a silver platter.

Now I have had my 1 hour's tuition and 5 hours play as a NB I can confirm without a doubt how easy they are to PvP with in IC, and what an utter joke their players are when they whine that they are easily countered, and that this set isn't a wet dream for them.

By alternating areas and farming players intelligently I got nearly 27K stones in that time, and had to kill very few mobs. I can only imagine how ezemode it is for experienced players with a well-geared and 300+ CP toon.

Ridiculous. Unbalanced. Joke.

^ I have 7 VR16 characters that all have rotations. Anybody that spams one ability (ambush, biting jabs, WB, LA) I laugh at because I know they do not have any skill. It is ridiculous to me that this set rewards lack of effort. Even with shield stacking, it takes skill to manage your resources, and know your push/retreat line.

I've had multiple people tell me the line "there are other ways to play magicka sorc" which there are, but they are not optimal in the least bit. I do agree that shield stacking should be tweaked, but not by much. The fact of the matter is shield stacking is not godmode. If you go against the right group, it can feel like godmode. You go against competent players that drain your stam, and you are in trouble. Instead of L2P against SB, how about you L2P against shield stacking.

byrom101b16_ESO · November 2015

Ichnaea wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Anyone genuinely proposing that a magicka Sorc with enough damage output and sustain to make them capable of killing ANYTHING in PvP can play effectively without shields is the equivalent of the village idiot.

I have, and unless skills change, never will see a shieldless magicka Sorc. build that works.

'Learn to heal like other classes' is a remark almost perfect in it's ignorance of the fact the class has no primary heal skills, with only secondary and unreliable heals at best.

Those claiming to regularly kill anyone with any skill at all and this set with their magicka Sorc. is blowing smoke, and should either post a video or stop making stuff up.

I had a good go with a friends stam. NB DW/Bow in the sewers last week and it was farcically easy to choose the right moment to attack from stealth and kill any shield user with the same routine, over and over and over.

I didn't see ONE Sorcerer amongst those who wasn't using shields against mobs, and hardly a one who had the time to realise I was attacking, then closing, then fearing and all the while getting skill-less cheap shots in for just over 2.5K unmitigated on their actively unremovable shield. If the circumstances saw the shield go down while they were still alive then it was just as easy to kill them fast. The worst I suffered was 1.5 second stuns from attempts to escape with my hand hovering over the teleport strike button, and every now and again a point blank frags from an aggressive BE user who reacted fast and didn't make the mistake of running.

I don't play NB regularly at all, and yet I just couldn't lose. as far as Sorcs were concerned, my opponents very few options were known to me and the initial overwhelming advantage in the fight practically handed a win to me on a silver platter.

Now I have had my 1 hour's tuition and 5 hours play as a NB I can confirm without a doubt how easy they are to PvP with in IC, and what an utter joke their players are when they whine that they are easily countered, and that this set isn't a wet dream for them.

By alternating areas and farming players intelligently I got nearly 27K stones in that time, and had to kill very few mobs. I can only imagine how ezemode it is for experienced players with a well-geared and 300+ CP toon.

Ridiculous. Unbalanced. Joke.

^ I have 7 VR16 characters that all have rotations. Anybody that spams one ability (ambush, biting jabs, WB, LA) I laugh at because I know they do not have any skill. It is ridiculous to me that this set rewards lack of effort. Even with shield stacking, it takes skill to manage your resources, and know your push/retreat line.

I've had multiple people tell me the line "there are other ways to play magicka sorc" which there are, but they are not optimal in the least bit. I do agree that shield stacking should be tweaked, but not by much. The fact of the matter is shield stacking is not godmode. If you go against the right group, it can feel like godmode. You go against competent players that drain your stam, and you are in trouble. Instead of L2P against SB, how about you L2P against shield stacking.

Sorc. is my main, and I never shield stack - too busy with offense really. I agree that shield stacking is stupid and would welcome a sensible and balanced redress - the major/minor shield stacking power reduction system seemed the best solution proposed so far.

Having a SET that screws over a shield-reliant class, and with so many unremovable random proc shields in the game is the worst kind of sticking-plaster, knee-jerk, unbalanced and ridiculous way of 'fixing it'. The rest of us shouldn't have to respecc for ONE set, and the users of the set shouldn't have to lose out on better generally useful 5-set bonuses.

Shield stacking should be 100% power primary shield, 50% power second shield, third+ shield cast replaces second shield at 50% power, so stacking is not OP, and this set should end up in the rubbish bin where it belongs.

Ganj · November 2015

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Ganj wrote: »

Pff this is really absurd. If you dont want to get hit by shield breaker then do not stack shield. No need to setup a macro and try useless things. Shield breaker set is an option, personally i dont wear it on my NB usually. But if there is a sorcerer with 30k shield excuse but that is really stupid to deal with. My main sorc aswell and i also admit that is hard to survive againts shield breaker if you are doing 1vX. But 1v1 its not that over powered.

Once again, if your class relies on a shield, and you cannot turn the shield off, then this set is OP against you.

Which bit of this self-evident truism don't you comprehend?

Then if there is a class relies on 30k shield stacking you cant complain about shield breaker. I dont know you guys realize but this game has rock paper scissors posture. My main also sorcerer aswell, shield breaker is not the problem. You can literally one shot most of the nightblades with one proper detonation combo. If you cant its your problem, not shield breaker users.

byrom101b16_ESO · November 2015

Ganj wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Ganj wrote: »

Pff this is really absurd. If you dont want to get hit by shield breaker then do not stack shield. No need to setup a macro and try useless things. Shield breaker set is an option, personally i dont wear it on my NB usually. But if there is a sorcerer with 30k shield excuse but that is really stupid to deal with. My main sorc aswell and i also admit that is hard to survive againts shield breaker if you are doing 1vX. But 1v1 its not that over powered.

Once again, if your class relies on a shield, and you cannot turn the shield off, then this set is OP against you.

Which bit of this self-evident truism don't you comprehend?

Then if there is a class relies on 30k shield stacking you cant complain about shield breaker. I dont know you guys realize but this game has rock paper scissors posture. My main also sorcerer aswell, shield breaker is not the problem. You can literally one shot most of the nightblades with one proper detonation combo. If you cant its your problem, not shield breaker users.

See my post above.

audrieltheelf · November 2015

Ganj wrote: »

Then if there is a class relies on 30k shield stacking you cant complain about shield breaker. I dont know you guys realize but this game has rock paper scissors posture. My main also sorcerer aswell, shield breaker is not the problem. You can literally one shot most of the nightblades with one proper detonation combo. If you cant its your problem, not shield breaker users.

My problem with this is that, as a Sorc who does use shields (20K at best) I can be easily spotted by anyone using SB from yards away while I, in my *insert arbitrary number here* man group, cannot pick you (not literally you, but the SB wearer) out in your X man group. Yes you can say "I'm the one standing in the back spamming light attacks" but by the time I get to you to plant that "proper detonation combo" I'm going to have to go through the zerg, or the other players hitting me, to get to you because all you're doing is standing at the back of the line spamming one ability over and over. In the time it takes me to put inevitable det+curse on you in a 1v1 that SB armor light attack is going to have already hit me numerous times and taken my health down to next to nothing.

Shield stacking needs to be addressed, no doubt, but SB is a no skill I win armor set.

"But I sacrifice a 5 pc bonus just to counter your shields." So you sacrifice one piece to gain stamina/stamina regen/weapon damage? *shrugs*

Amica · November 2015

After my message from zos, lets just agree to disagree. Zos knows what they are doing and we should just let them do there thing. And like in most cases, find our own way around things (I call it the gamers patch, to patch the dev's patches).
Thanks to Sypher for his help the other morning even though he was emp pushing. He still took the time out for a scrub like me and although i had to equip an ability i really did not want to just to counter 1 set of armor, I have the issue sorted.

So im going to repay the favor sypher showed me. As i still hear on ts from time to time , i need to re-log because of this issue etc.

The old, can't get through doors or use portals after re-spawning in pvp.
Go to the shop, preview a costume and spin your toon around to look at the set.
The doors and portals will then work for you. AKA no need to relog.

Grey bar during combat.
Shift key error, Spam shift once or twice should fix the issue. Sometimes it does not, but in most cases it will.

The unbreakable fear bug.
No fix that i have found to date, You just have to suck that one up.

Shot off your mount or hit with a knock down ability. Just hit break free, it cancels the fall animation and you should be on your feet ready to own the person.

Basic combat animation canceling.
Any instant cast ability followed closely by block. Or light attack if in combat etc.
You will increase your dps output and heals a lot using this as the time for animations to play out is no longer part of the equation. Steel tornado you don't even spin, just epic damage out put. Works on shields very well, letting you put up all your shields in half the time.

Hope it helps,

Shashu

Lokey0024 · November 2015

Wolfahm wrote: »

Any Sorc with a brain stem can win vs someone spamming light attacks. the ONLY time shield breaker is effective is when you come across a sorc in a 1v10 farming scrubs or just a REALLY bad player. Basically a whole legion of sorcs were under the impression they were skilled due to being unhitable for so long.. when these same bad players see the HP bar drop the only reaction they have is to spam more shields( I have seen a sorc reapply a shield 9 times in a row well taking breaker hits 1v1).. Slot some heals.. stop being stupid... fight back rather then shield spam... stop thinking you have the right to win 1v10

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

zornyan · November 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

OP I agree with the point you are trying to make. My velocious curse barely does 3k damage and that is meant to be a hard-hitting skill on a timer. Frags does about 5k, not even that a lot of the time. Shield breaker set always does 2.1k, just from a light attack which can be spammed rapidly. The damage output potential is too much; not proportional in the current meta. It's not game breaking because light attacks can usually be avoided for a few seconds, but I certainly think it's op and a bit absurd, and needs adjusting. In pvp I run with 2 heavy and have 21k/18k resistances buffed and 21k hp, but going without my class ward still isn't an option. Because I can't disappear or roll more than twice, I have to be able to absorb some damage. When the only counter to something is LoS there's a problem imo.

But you mentioned macros which distracted everybody from a good point and spoiled the post

Oh please, curse often hits me for 5-6k and frags often reads 13-14k plus in my tooltip.

I've literally seen 2 shot frags in pvp from full to zero hp

Battle Spirit reduces the received damage by 50%. You deal that much damage against NPCs, not against players. 13-14k tt is relatively high as well, and players have more spell resist than mobs.

What? I'm talking about how much damage it says I've recieved in my death recap, with people hitting 40k frags in pve....well go figure it out for yourself