Kagrenacs vs Julianos

zornyan · October 2015

5 kag
3 torugs
2 kena
3 willpower

Solid reliable setup with great sustain and dsmage, no point in using 2 kena for pve, you'll run out of resources too quick.

KostasDragonborn · November 2015

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I just recently made a sorc mainly for grinding Arena in DLC, because I main two Stam chars for pvp and was pretty unsuccessful on PTS.

Would of been quite a waste for just farming so I want to take her into PVP. I was thinking about a dw build using Trapping webs as Main dps.

What would you guys suggest for an optimal setup, considering the sets from the upcoming DLC? I'm really new to sorc and don't feel like wasting time and gold on theorycrafting a good setup, so I would be grateful for some help from very experienced sorc PVPers

Also consider that I will perhaps change to destro if I don't like dw + web and that I will prob. mainly solo on the sorc with a fairly aggressive build but also decent sustain so no pure glass cannon.

I came up with these set ups but I'm not sure tbh:

Julianos's 5/5 (or kag), Kena 1/2, Willpower 3/3, 3/5 kag (or torug)

Dual wield with 5 kag 1 kena, 3 willpower, 3 torug or magnus if you value more sustain. I think the DW Trapping Webs sounds interesting, and I'd like to hear what your damage on target and tool tip are for that ability. I think using Trapping webs as an attack ability is awesome and it has great range, but out of curiosity what other attacks will you incorporate into the rotation, and which morph of Trapping Webs do you find more effective? I think I'm going to run Tangling Webs in small scale PVP for a while, however as a DK running 2 hander and resto I don't have a formidable ranged attack, so I don't think it will be a long term slot. I just have yet to see people get feared by the Synergy. My tooltip damage is 5451 on the ability and I've seen it hitting for upwards of 8k, however I have never tried buffing it, except for with combat prayer. The thing about it in PVP if you can slip it into a weave rotation it's a pretty silent DD that I don't think would be causing people to reflect it or even block it as it's not very big, flashy, or loud ability.

Ezareth · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Haha 2400 stam regen with Drink( ~1800 with food) means I don't care what about CC. I spend more Stamina spamming defensive posture than I do Breaking free.

Yes, apprentice for PvP. Damage shields + block means Crit isn't the most desireable.

I'm confused. How do you get 1.8k stam regen and 41k magicka and 3.4k spell damage at the same time? And what is your magicka regen?

I guess what I'm asking is how many thousands of CPs do you have XD

Same as you, If I keep playing I'll hit 500 in the next month or so. There are only two passives that affect stam and magicka regen though so even if I did have 2K it wouldn't change any of that.

My gearing and enchanting is pretty much perfectly designed for my playstyle with what is available, the 1.8/2.4K number on the stam regen is with a Tri-pot active which if you've ever seen my PvP Vids you'd know is up 100% of the time. The 3400 (3396 to be exact) is with Power Surge/Degeneration active. My max magicka is with Sword and Board active that I use to increase my Hardened ward as much as possible.

Ok i don´t get how you get 3400 spelldmg + 1800stamreg with food ._.

Sorry I checked again today and the 1800 Stam regen was with drink, I've just noticed the numbers at times while PvPing otherwise I rarely look at them other than my spell damage since I'm always switching between drink and food.. I run with around 2300/2400 Magicka regen and 1800 stamina regen with drink and tri-pot.

I do use Bloodspawn shoulders in my build as well which is why my regen is a bit higher than most sorcs and I couple BLoodspawn with my build to supply my defensive posture spam when fighting multiple opponents and 2 counter meteors. I just had a group spam 3 meteors in a row on me haha...it didnt go so well for them ( =

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Haha 2400 stam regen with Drink( ~1800 with food) means I don't care what about CC. I spend more Stamina spamming defensive posture than I do Breaking free.

Yes, apprentice for PvP. Damage shields + block means Crit isn't the most desireable.

I'm confused. How do you get 1.8k stam regen and 41k magicka and 3.4k spell damage at the same time? And what is your magicka regen?

I guess what I'm asking is how many thousands of CPs do you have XD

Same as you, If I keep playing I'll hit 500 in the next month or so. There are only two passives that affect stam and magicka regen though so even if I did have 2K it wouldn't change any of that.

My gearing and enchanting is pretty much perfectly designed for my playstyle with what is available, the 1.8/2.4K number on the stam regen is with a Tri-pot active which if you've ever seen my PvP Vids you'd know is up 100% of the time. The 3400 (3396 to be exact) is with Power Surge/Degeneration active. My max magicka is with Sword and Board active that I use to increase my Hardened ward as much as possible.

Ok i don´t get how you get 3400 spelldmg + 1800stamreg with food ._.

Sorry I checked again today and the 1800 Stam regen was with drink, I've just noticed the numbers at times while PvPing otherwise I rarely look at them other than my spell damage since I'm always switching between drink and food.. I run with around 2300/2400 Magicka regen and 1800 stamina regen with drink and tri-pot.

I do use Bloodspawn shoulders in my build as well which is why my regen is a bit higher than most sorcs and I couple BLoodspawn with my build to supply my defensive posture spam when fighting multiple opponents and 2 counter meteors. I just had a group spam 3 meteors in a row on me haha...it didnt go so well for them ( =

It's still bad math because if you are using Defensive Posture then you do not have the DW damage bonus unless you dropped Resto which no one would ever do. I'm not saying that you cannot hit such values but to attain them at the same time seems impossible, especially when you keep mentioning gear which prohibits some of these values from being obtained. I hate to say it but pics or it didn't happen becaue there is way too much conflicting information.

ToRelax · November 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

i´m allways surprised how you guys can cope without any reg set-bonis

I always thought the same but its easy to get used to, even without 500+CPs (I have around 330 CPs).

For pvp I currently use 5x kagrenacs, 2x torugs pact, 1x molag kena and 3x willpower jewelry.

I bought an extra set of willpower necklace and ring to switch between spell dmg and cost reduction/regen enchants.

In small groups I have enough sustain with 1x spell dmg, 1x cost reduction and 1x regen. In 12-man groups sustain is easier with a synergy every now and then I use 2x spell dmg and 1x magicka regen enchant and in full 24-man raids I use 3x spell dmg enchants (which gives me more than 3.4k spell dmg buffed).

I'm running similar enchants, 5-piece set and Kena. But instead of 2 x Torug, I'm running 2 x Seducer for the regen. Tested both a while back and chose the latter.

Though I'm gonna reach 500 CPs in the next couple of weeks and switching Attro to Thief might just be possible. Even if I have to go 7/7 Light instead of 6/7.

I'm just hoping they'll make Lord Warden dusk 1-piece bonus magicka regen and then I can farm the maelstrom staves for this BiS setup:
5xKag
3xWillpower
1xKena
1xDusk
1xMaelstrom Staff

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I just recently made a sorc mainly for grinding Arena in DLC, because I main two Stam chars for pvp and was pretty unsuccessful on PTS.

Would of been quite a waste for just farming so I want to take her into PVP. I was thinking about a dw build using Trapping webs as Main dps.

What would you guys suggest for an optimal setup, considering the sets from the upcoming DLC? I'm really new to sorc and don't feel like wasting time and gold on theorycrafting a good setup, so I would be grateful for some help from very experienced sorc PVPers

Also consider that I will perhaps change to destro if I don't like dw + web and that I will prob. mainly solo on the sorc with a fairly aggressive build but also decent sustain so no pure glass cannon.

I came up with these set ups but I'm not sure tbh:

Julianos's 5/5 (or kag), Kena 1/2, Willpower 3/3, 3/5 kag (or torug)

Instead of 1 Kena+ 3 Kagrenac, you could just use 4 Magnus. Or 4 Phoenix, for the looks.

Derra · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Haha 2400 stam regen with Drink( ~1800 with food) means I don't care what about CC. I spend more Stamina spamming defensive posture than I do Breaking free.

Yes, apprentice for PvP. Damage shields + block means Crit isn't the most desireable.

I'm confused. How do you get 1.8k stam regen and 41k magicka and 3.4k spell damage at the same time? And what is your magicka regen?

I guess what I'm asking is how many thousands of CPs do you have XD

Same as you, If I keep playing I'll hit 500 in the next month or so. There are only two passives that affect stam and magicka regen though so even if I did have 2K it wouldn't change any of that.

My gearing and enchanting is pretty much perfectly designed for my playstyle with what is available, the 1.8/2.4K number on the stam regen is with a Tri-pot active which if you've ever seen my PvP Vids you'd know is up 100% of the time. The 3400 (3396 to be exact) is with Power Surge/Degeneration active. My max magicka is with Sword and Board active that I use to increase my Hardened ward as much as possible.

Ok i don´t get how you get 3400 spelldmg + 1800stamreg with food ._.

Sorry I checked again today and the 1800 Stam regen was with drink, I've just noticed the numbers at times while PvPing otherwise I rarely look at them other than my spell damage since I'm always switching between drink and food.. I run with around 2300/2400 Magicka regen and 1800 stamina regen with drink and tri-pot.

I do use Bloodspawn shoulders in my build as well which is why my regen is a bit higher than most sorcs and I couple BLoodspawn with my build to supply my defensive posture spam when fighting multiple opponents and 2 counter meteors. I just had a group spam 3 meteors in a row on me haha...it didnt go so well for them ( =

Ok that´s something i can get behind!

@Hiero_Glyph

Ezareth is using s&b most likely for defensive posture which works great in just about every situation. That skill combined with an extra enchantment slot on the shield for more magica makes s&b the better choice for sorc IF you don´t use a destro staff build. DW gets you an extra 200 spelldmg (5% dmg will be reintroduced with the next patch so thats sth to look at) at the cost of 1061 magica and you loose the best stamina skill a magica class can have...

I was going to craft s&b myself but i´m gonna wait for julianos and the cp cap now as i will have to change my whole build anyway.

Tankqull · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

5 kag
3 torugs
2 kena
3 willpower

Solid reliable setup ...

and 13 item slots

zornyan · November 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

5 kag
3 torugs
2 kena
3 willpower

Solid reliable setup ...

and 13 item slots

Lol should be 1 kena, don't know why it changed to 2.

I actually never recommend 2 kena for anything, the cost increase destroys any sort of sustain.

Derra · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

5 kag
3 torugs
2 kena
3 willpower

Solid reliable setup ...

and 13 item slots

Lol should be 1 kena, don't know why it changed to 2.

I actually never recommend 2 kena for anything, the cost increase destroys any sort of sustain.

It´s working well on builds with drinks + attronarch and is a noticeable dmg improvement on those. Still a very niche.

byrom101b16_ESO · November 2015

I am currently using the following with my Breton Sorc.

5xSeducer (I medium, 4 light)
2xTorugs (1 heavy, staffs)
1x Molag shoulders (light)
3x Willpower (1 magicka/spell damage, 2 health/spell damage)

All non-jewelry enchants are +magicka or +magicka damage/return (with +crit trait) and I use the Thief Mundus with divines on my small pieces.

Spell damage comes out at ~2600 unbuffed, magicka regen. at 1200, spell crit. at 64% and magicka at ~36K with 23K health in IC, 18K outside. I use tri-food, or dual food for 38K+ magicka in PvE.

Come the dlc today I will swap all Seducer for Julianos, use 7/7 light armour and re-enchant my neckpiece if my sustain borks too hard. My crit will hit 71% at this point with ~2700 spell dam. bonus and with my ever-running surge I think I can drop the heal staff for the arena.

We will see soon enough.

Maulkin · November 2015

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Spell damage comes out at ~2600, magicka regen. at 1200, spell crit. at 64% and magicka at ~36K with 23Khealth in IC, 18K outside. I use tri-food, or dual food for 38K+ magicka in PvE.

Come the dlc today I will swap all Seducer for Julianos, use 7/7 light armour and re-enchant my neckpiece if my sustain borks too hard. My crit will hit 71% at this point and with my ever-running surge I think I can drop the heal staff for the arena.

I don't even know how you sustain at 1200 mag regen. I'd never run anything less than 2k tbh.

byrom101b16_ESO · November 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Spell damage comes out at ~2600, magicka regen. at 1200, spell crit. at 64% and magicka at ~36K with 23Khealth in IC, 18K outside. I use tri-food, or dual food for 38K+ magicka in PvE.

Come the dlc today I will swap all Seducer for Julianos, use 7/7 light armour and re-enchant my neckpiece if my sustain borks too hard. My crit will hit 71% at this point and with my ever-running surge I think I can drop the heal staff for the arena.

I don't even know how you sustain at 1200 mag regen. I'd never run anything less than 2k tbh.

With that set up, magicka return on Overload, Elemental Drain on very long fights, Light attack weaving and maximised pots (alchemist passives) it's pretty easy actually.

I am Breton so have 3% cost reduction there and 12% cost reduction from CPs and all cost reduction passives for armour and class maxed.

Maulkin · November 2015

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Spell damage comes out at ~2600, magicka regen. at 1200, spell crit. at 64% and magicka at ~36K with 23Khealth in IC, 18K outside. I use tri-food, or dual food for 38K+ magicka in PvE.

Come the dlc today I will swap all Seducer for Julianos, use 7/7 light armour and re-enchant my neckpiece if my sustain borks too hard. My crit will hit 71% at this point and with my ever-running surge I think I can drop the heal staff for the arena.

I don't even know how you sustain at 1200 mag regen. I'd never run anything less than 2k tbh.

With that set up, magicka return on Overload, Elemental Drain on very long fights, Light attack weaving and maximised pots (alchemist passives) it's pretty easy actually.

I am Breton so have 3% cost reduction there and 12% cost reduction from CPs and all cost reduction passives for armour and class maxed.

This is the PVP section of the forum. Are you telling me you use else drain in PVP and can bolt escape out of trouble with 1.2k magicka regen?

byrom101b16_ESO · November 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Spell damage comes out at ~2600, magicka regen. at 1200, spell crit. at 64% and magicka at ~36K with 23Khealth in IC, 18K outside. I use tri-food, or dual food for 38K+ magicka in PvE.

Come the dlc today I will swap all Seducer for Julianos, use 7/7 light armour and re-enchant my neckpiece if my sustain borks too hard. My crit will hit 71% at this point and with my ever-running surge I think I can drop the heal staff for the arena.

I don't even know how you sustain at 1200 mag regen. I'd never run anything less than 2k tbh.

With that set up, magicka return on Overload, Elemental Drain on very long fights, Light attack weaving and maximised pots (alchemist passives) it's pretty easy actually.

I am Breton so have 3% cost reduction there and 12% cost reduction from CPs and all cost reduction passives for armour and class maxed.

This is the PVP section of the forum. Are you telling me you use else drain in PVP and can bolt escape out of trouble with 1.2k magicka regen?

I don't get into long enough fights in PvP for sustain issues - I use Daedric Tomb instead of ED on my No.1 Bar.

I also use BE with stun mainly for offensive purposes and Boundless Storm in between to sprint for the intervening four seconds, changing to Immovable Pots or my third bar Immovable ability if DD spammers are on my tail and dropping Daedric Tomb in choke points. I don't need to spam BE.

I find Daedric Tomb and Overload morphed with magicka regen and Surge a great combo btw, with Boundless Storm you stay on top of your opponent and it is very hard for them to see the Overload shots coming or the instant spawn mines, and you are Immovable too... confuses the hell out of melee expecting a magicka Sorc. to stay at range.

zornyan · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

5 kag
3 torugs
2 kena
3 willpower

Solid reliable setup ...

and 13 item slots

Lol should be 1 kena, don't know why it changed to 2.

I actually never recommend 2 kena for anything, the cost increase destroys any sort of sustain.

It´s working well on builds with drinks + attronarch and is a noticeable dmg improvement on those. Still a very niche.

I could see it then, but alone in using drinks instead of food, that would cost me 4500 magicka, which is equal to nearly 450 spell damage, but obviously it's a constant, I'd like to see an actual dps comparison, but I feel that getting the effect loaded up and then bursting etc, would result in less dps in pve.

zornyan · November 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Spell damage comes out at ~2600, magicka regen. at 1200, spell crit. at 64% and magicka at ~36K with 23Khealth in IC, 18K outside. I use tri-food, or dual food for 38K+ magicka in PvE.

Come the dlc today I will swap all Seducer for Julianos, use 7/7 light armour and re-enchant my neckpiece if my sustain borks too hard. My crit will hit 71% at this point and with my ever-running surge I think I can drop the heal staff for the arena.

I don't even know how you sustain at 1200 mag regen. I'd never run anything less than 2k tbh.

With that set up, magicka return on Overload, Elemental Drain on very long fights, Light attack weaving and maximised pots (alchemist passives) it's pretty easy actually.

I am Breton so have 3% cost reduction there and 12% cost reduction from CPs and all cost reduction passives for armour and class maxed.

This is the PVP section of the forum. Are you telling me you use else drain in PVP and can bolt escape out of trouble with 1.2k magicka regen?

My templar only has 1k regen, as he uses food, with 41-42k magicka and 3800? Or 3700 spell damage i don't need regen, for want of a better word, *** dies fast, especially NB's , quick dark flare/sweeps/radiant and or soul assault and people just die.

Ezareth · November 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

It's still bad math because if you are using Defensive Posture then you do not have the DW damage bonus unless you dropped Resto which no one would ever do. I'm not saying that you cannot hit such values but to attain them at the same time seems impossible, especially when you keep mentioning gear which prohibits some of these values from being obtained. I hate to say it but pics or it didn't happen becaue there is way too much conflicting information.

Of course I dropped Resto. I run Destro/ S&B although offhand I can't think of why Resto would have less spellpower than Destro.

I'll be happy to provide you with a SS if you'd like later today although my spell damage will be even higher now since I'll be swapping some gear out with patch.

Derra wrote: »

Ok that´s something i can get behind!

@Hiero_Glyph

Ezareth is using s&b most likely for defensive posture which works great in just about every situation. That skill combined with an extra enchantment slot on the shield for more magica makes s&b the better choice for sorc IF you don´t use a destro staff build. DW gets you an extra 200 spelldmg (5% dmg will be reintroduced with the next patch so thats sth to look at) at the cost of 1061 magica and you loose the best stamina skill a magica class can have...

I was going to craft s&b myself but i´m gonna wait for julianos and the cp cap now as i will have to change my whole build anyway.

There are even more uses for S&B, like a Willpower Shield for example ( =

I've just never been a fan of the whole DW or Greatsword on magicka sorc builds, it seems to gimmicky to me just to squeeze out a bit more damage. I much prefer using a double reflect with a Crushing shock instead of having to use a light attack.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Spell damage comes out at ~2600, magicka regen. at 1200, spell crit. at 64% and magicka at ~36K with 23Khealth in IC, 18K outside. I use tri-food, or dual food for 38K+ magicka in PvE.

Come the dlc today I will swap all Seducer for Julianos, use 7/7 light armour and re-enchant my neckpiece if my sustain borks too hard. My crit will hit 71% at this point and with my ever-running surge I think I can drop the heal staff for the arena.

I don't even know how you sustain at 1200 mag regen. I'd never run anything less than 2k tbh.

I don't find it to be too big of a problem myself. He's also using Seducer so he's more magicka efficient. When I'm in overload I only consume magicka on ball of Lightning and recasting hardened ward plus an occasional prox det + daedric mines. I'll typically leave overload with close to full magicka and alternate between the two.