Kagrenacs vs Julianos

havok561

Just wondering if anyone has the spell power difference on both of these sets. I am ready to craft all VR16 gear and am thinking about going Kagrenacs hope and basically making all my gear legendary with Kuda glyphs. I am thinking about waiting but I can't find the numbers for spell power on the actual sets. Thoughts on which may be better for a sorc?

Leandor

Wait. Julianos is superior, except if you mainly heal/rez.

Amica

Kags, the way DC players got farmed yesterday, you will need the extra rez power if your DC and pvp. If not then Julian

olsborg

Spellcrit will be somewhat useless vs someone using hardward, harness/dampen magicka, healing ward or all of the above.

Leandor

olsborg wrote: »

Spellcrit will be somewhat useless vs someone using hardward, harness/dampen magicka, healing ward or all of the above.

Considering that Julianos gives you 299 instead of 224 spell damage (an increase of 75 spell damage or 33% of kag's bonus) at the cost of one magicka regen bonus (and a health bonus) even against a shield spammer, I still think the decision is easy.

Synozeer

More spell crit will also increase your heals (more crit heals).

WreckfulAbandon

Leandor wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Spellcrit will be somewhat useless vs someone using hardward, harness/dampen magicka, healing ward or all of the above.

Considering that Julianos gives you 299 instead of 224 spell damage (an increase of 75 spell damage or 33% of kag's bonus) at the cost of one magicka regen bonus (and a health bonus) even against a shield spammer, I still think the decision is easy.

I see it as an easy decision the other way, especially considering shield users in Cyrodiil. A health bonus and a magic regen bonus are well worth trading 75 spell dmg for in my opinion (unless you already have a boatload of regen), and if you're sitting at 50% crit already there's no need to fret about the lost crit bonuses. And then there's the rez bonus to consider as well.

75 spell damage is nothing to disregard, but there is minimal loss in the effectiveness of the major sorcery buff on your spell damage by going Kag's over Julianos (like 15 spell dmg, correct me if I'm wrong).

ChefZero

Kagrenacs is better in PvP. Crit is a nice-to-have but not a have-to-go.

ToRelax

For a Sorc, Julianos is better. Other sets I consider are Twice-Born Star, Willow's Path and Phoenix.

Atm I plan on going for Julianos with Twice-Born being a close second.
This is because I feel I still need the Atronach Stone. Then it's 2 spell crit (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam bonus more on Twice-Born (using Thief as second) vs. the 299 spell damage on Julianos. So, technically, Twice-Born Star would appear to be the more efficient set.
But if you go for the most efficient in the first place and ignore the low regen it can give you, you'll pick the thief mundus first, and then it's 2 spell crit + ~2.3 spell damage on Julianos vs. ~1.6 magicka regen (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam. For Atronach as second that is, other stones don't interest me as much anyway.
With 4 legendary divines pieces and not taking into account passives, that's slightly more regen on Twice-Born than spell damage on Julianos, but 2 spell crit tops 1 max hp + 1 max stam for me. To be exact, you'd have to play it through with 7 divines, wich would give another 22.5% bonus on spell crit and regen for Twice Born, while sacrificing either max magicka or all stats (prismatic) from infused traits.

Still not full decided, but I think for PvP Julianos would win.

Edit: Now that I read it again, should have made it more clear. I am valuing 299 sd over 6% spell crit + 1 max hp and stam bonus. Spell damage gets better than crit the lower sd and max magicka and the higher crit you already have. But just more stats overall you'd get with Twice-Born Star.

havok561

Kagrenacs just seems more balanced. 75 spell power is a decent amount but not sure if in the end it will make a huge difference . I am an average player in pvp sometimes I perform better then other days, I guess we will see but I am leaning towards Kagrenacs hope with Molag Kena Shoulder, Torugs pact staff and head. Twice Born star has always had me curious.

ToRelax

havok561 wrote: »

Kagrenacs just seems more balanced. 75 spell power is a decent amount but not sure if in the end it will make a huge difference . I am an average player in pvp sometimes I perform better then other days, I guess we will see but I am leaning towards Kagrenacs hope with Molag Kena Shoulder, Torugs pact staff and head. Twice Born star has always had me curious.

Let's have a quick breakdown then of 5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path/3 Kagrenac/2 Willow's Path + 1 Molag Kena vs 5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:

5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path:
2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen + 1 stamina regen

5 Julianos + 3 Kagrenac (same stats as 3 Seducer/Magnus/Eyes of Mara):
2 spell crit + 2 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

5 Julianos + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Willow's Path (same stats as 2 Seducer/Eyes of Mara):
2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 3.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:
1 max health + 1 max magicka + 3.7 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

Idk about you, but the Julianos setups seem more balanced to me.
What Kagrenac has going for it that Julianos doesn't, is the rez speed. If you think that'll be very useful to you, then Kagrenac is probably the better choice.

havok561

@ToRelax Damn those numbers!!!!

ChefZero

How much are those 2 crit bonuses together? 6%?

Reeko

What about 5 Julianos and 2 molag kena?

Derra

ToRelax wrote: »

For a Sorc, Julianos is better. Other sets I consider are Twice-Born Star, Willow's Path and Phoenix.

Atm I plan on going for Julianos with Twice-Born being a close second.
This is because I feel I still need the Atronach Stone. Then it's 2 spell crit (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam bonus more on Twice-Born (using Thief as second) vs. the 299 spell damage on Julianos. So, technically, Twice-Born Star would appear to be the more efficient set.
But if you go for the most efficient in the first place and ignore the low regen it can give you, you'll pick the thief mundus first, and then it's 2 spell crit + ~2.3 spell damage on Julianos vs. ~1.6 magicka regen (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam. For Atronach as second that is, other stones don't interest me as much anyway.
With 4 legendary divines pieces and not taking into account passives, that's slightly more regen on Twice-Born than spell damage on Julianos, but 2 spell crit tops 1 max hp + 1 max stam for me. To be exact, you'd have to play it through with 7 divines, wich would give another 22.5% bonus on spell crit and regen for Twice Born, while sacrificing either max magicka or all stats (prismatic) from infused traits.

Still not full decided, but I think for PvP Julianos would win.

Edit: Now that I read it again, should have made it more clear. I am valuing 299 sd over 6% spell crit + 1 max hp and stam bonus. Spell damage gets better than crit the lower sd and max magicka and the higher crit you already have. But just more stats overall you'd get with Twice-Born Star.

For pvp i´d go twiceborn all the way IF i´d have access to a molag kena divine shoulder piece. Sadly i have not so julianos is the more appealing option.
Also the new bufffood/drink combinations make pure dmg sets more appealing.

Tankqull

ToRelax wrote: »

havok561 wrote: »

Kagrenacs just seems more balanced. 75 spell power is a decent amount but not sure if in the end it will make a huge difference . I am an average player in pvp sometimes I perform better then other days, I guess we will see but I am leaning towards Kagrenacs hope with Molag Kena Shoulder, Torugs pact staff and head. Twice Born star has always had me curious.

Let's have a quick breakdown then of 5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path/3 Kagrenac/2 Willow's Path + 1 Molag Kena vs 5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:

5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path:
2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen + 1 stamina regen

5 Julianos + 3 Kagrenac (same stats as 3 Seducer/Magnus/Eyes of Mara):
2 spell crit + 2 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

5 Julianos + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Willow's Path (same stats as 2 Seducer/Eyes of Mara):
2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 3.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:
1 max health + 1 max magicka + 3.7 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

Idk about you, but the Julianos setups seem more balanced to me.
What Kagrenac has going for it that Julianos doesn't, is the rez speed. If you think that'll be very useful to you, then Kagrenac is probably the better choice.

what about
5 kagnacs+ 1 molag kena+ 1bloodspawn + mealstromweapon (s) ?

Ishammael

Derra wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

For a Sorc, Julianos is better. Other sets I consider are Twice-Born Star, Willow's Path and Phoenix.

Atm I plan on going for Julianos with Twice-Born being a close second.
This is because I feel I still need the Atronach Stone. Then it's 2 spell crit (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam bonus more on Twice-Born (using Thief as second) vs. the 299 spell damage on Julianos. So, technically, Twice-Born Star would appear to be the more efficient set.
But if you go for the most efficient in the first place and ignore the low regen it can give you, you'll pick the thief mundus first, and then it's 2 spell crit + ~2.3 spell damage on Julianos vs. ~1.6 magicka regen (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam. For Atronach as second that is, other stones don't interest me as much anyway.
With 4 legendary divines pieces and not taking into account passives, that's slightly more regen on Twice-Born than spell damage on Julianos, but 2 spell crit tops 1 max hp + 1 max stam for me. To be exact, you'd have to play it through with 7 divines, wich would give another 22.5% bonus on spell crit and regen for Twice Born, while sacrificing either max magicka or all stats (prismatic) from infused traits.

Still not full decided, but I think for PvP Julianos would win.

Edit: Now that I read it again, should have made it more clear. I am valuing 299 sd over 6% spell crit + 1 max hp and stam bonus. Spell damage gets better than crit the lower sd and max magicka and the higher crit you already have. But just more stats overall you'd get with Twice-Born Star.

For pvp i´d go twiceborn all the way IF i´d have access to a molag kena divine shoulder piece. Sadly i have not so julianos is the more appealing option.
Also the new bufffood/drink combinations make pure dmg sets more appealing.

The gold drink/food thingy requires perfect roe! Ouch!

Also, Thief + Shadow for TBS setup?

Islyn

Yeah I'll make julianos a piece at a time, but not gonna rush over it - I just got back and got this gear :P

Derra

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

For a Sorc, Julianos is better. Other sets I consider are Twice-Born Star, Willow's Path and Phoenix.

Atm I plan on going for Julianos with Twice-Born being a close second.
This is because I feel I still need the Atronach Stone. Then it's 2 spell crit (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam bonus more on Twice-Born (using Thief as second) vs. the 299 spell damage on Julianos. So, technically, Twice-Born Star would appear to be the more efficient set.
But if you go for the most efficient in the first place and ignore the low regen it can give you, you'll pick the thief mundus first, and then it's 2 spell crit + ~2.3 spell damage on Julianos vs. ~1.6 magicka regen (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam. For Atronach as second that is, other stones don't interest me as much anyway.
With 4 legendary divines pieces and not taking into account passives, that's slightly more regen on Twice-Born than spell damage on Julianos, but 2 spell crit tops 1 max hp + 1 max stam for me. To be exact, you'd have to play it through with 7 divines, wich would give another 22.5% bonus on spell crit and regen for Twice Born, while sacrificing either max magicka or all stats (prismatic) from infused traits.

Still not full decided, but I think for PvP Julianos would win.

Edit: Now that I read it again, should have made it more clear. I am valuing 299 sd over 6% spell crit + 1 max hp and stam bonus. Spell damage gets better than crit the lower sd and max magicka and the higher crit you already have. But just more stats overall you'd get with Twice-Born Star.

For pvp i´d go twiceborn all the way IF i´d have access to a molag kena divine shoulder piece. Sadly i have not so julianos is the more appealing option.
Also the new bufffood/drink combinations make pure dmg sets more appealing.

The gold drink/food thingy requires perfect roe! Ouch!

Also, Thief + Shadow for TBS setup?

It´s not going to be optimal for every build and will last for 2hours 20mins. Think perfect roe is fine here. If the endresult is something like ~5000g per serve.
It´s only useful for certain pvp builds anyway.

ToRelax

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

havok561 wrote: »

Kagrenacs just seems more balanced. 75 spell power is a decent amount but not sure if in the end it will make a huge difference . I am an average player in pvp sometimes I perform better then other days, I guess we will see but I am leaning towards Kagrenacs hope with Molag Kena Shoulder, Torugs pact staff and head. Twice Born star has always had me curious.

Let's have a quick breakdown then of 5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path/3 Kagrenac/2 Willow's Path + 1 Molag Kena vs 5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:

5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path:
2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen + 1 stamina regen

5 Julianos + 3 Kagrenac (same stats as 3 Seducer/Magnus/Eyes of Mara):
2 spell crit + 2 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

5 Julianos + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Willow's Path (same stats as 2 Seducer/Eyes of Mara):
2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 3.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:
1 max health + 1 max magicka + 3.7 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

Idk about you, but the Julianos setups seem more balanced to me.
What Kagrenac has going for it that Julianos doesn't, is the rez speed. If you think that'll be very useful to you, then Kagrenac is probably the better choice.

what about
5 kagnacs+ 1 molag kena+ 1bloodspawn + mealstromweapon (s) ?

Well 1 Molag Kena + 1 Bloodspawn + Mealstrom staff isn't bad if you can get the right traits and do without the spell resist from nirnhoned. The spell damage buff on Mealstrom weapons is 1.5 spell damage bonuses, at the cost of the nirnhoned trait and a regular enchantment. Doesn't really change wether to go for Julianos or Kagrenac though unless you really need that regen bonus.

ChefZero wrote: »

How much are those 2 crit bonuses together? 6%?

Yes, I think so.

Reeko wrote: »

What about 5 Julianos and 2 molag kena?

I don't think 2 Molag Kena is good for PvP. This setup also has no regen, so it'l drain your resources super fast. But if you want to stack as much spell damage as possible for a short burst and ignore the cost, this wouldn't be bad.
However, Shadow + Thief with Twice-Born Star is better for dps in PvE I think, so if you'd otherwise go for thief as 1st mundus, this will have higher potential and be less reliable (because you lose the 2 crit bonuses + sd on Julianos).

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

For a Sorc, Julianos is better. Other sets I consider are Twice-Born Star, Willow's Path and Phoenix.

Atm I plan on going for Julianos with Twice-Born being a close second.
This is because I feel I still need the Atronach Stone. Then it's 2 spell crit (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam bonus more on Twice-Born (using Thief as second) vs. the 299 spell damage on Julianos. So, technically, Twice-Born Star would appear to be the more efficient set.
But if you go for the most efficient in the first place and ignore the low regen it can give you, you'll pick the thief mundus first, and then it's 2 spell crit + ~2.3 spell damage on Julianos vs. ~1.6 magicka regen (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam. For Atronach as second that is, other stones don't interest me as much anyway.
With 4 legendary divines pieces and not taking into account passives, that's slightly more regen on Twice-Born than spell damage on Julianos, but 2 spell crit tops 1 max hp + 1 max stam for me. To be exact, you'd have to play it through with 7 divines, wich would give another 22.5% bonus on spell crit and regen for Twice Born, while sacrificing either max magicka or all stats (prismatic) from infused traits.

Still not full decided, but I think for PvP Julianos would win.

Edit: Now that I read it again, should have made it more clear. I am valuing 299 sd over 6% spell crit + 1 max hp and stam bonus. Spell damage gets better than crit the lower sd and max magicka and the higher crit you already have. But just more stats overall you'd get with Twice-Born Star.

For pvp i´d go twiceborn all the way IF i´d have access to a molag kena divine shoulder piece. Sadly i have not so julianos is the more appealing option.
Also the new bufffood/drink combinations make pure dmg sets more appealing.

The gold drink/food thingy requires perfect roe! Ouch!

Also, Thief + Shadow for TBS setup?

Well you need to get your regen *somewhere*...

Erondil

ToRelax wrote: »

For a Sorc, Julianos is better. Other sets I consider are Twice-Born Star, Willow's Path and Phoenix.

Atm I plan on going for Julianos with Twice-Born being a close second.
This is because I feel I still need the Atronach Stone. Then it's 2 spell crit (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam bonus more on Twice-Born (using Thief as second) vs. the 299 spell damage on Julianos. So, technically, Twice-Born Star would appear to be the more efficient set.
But if you go for the most efficient in the first place and ignore the low regen it can give you, you'll pick the thief mundus first, and then it's 2 spell crit + ~2.3 spell damage on Julianos vs. ~1.6 magicka regen (+ divines trait) + 1 max hp + 1 max stam. For Atronach as second that is, other stones don't interest me as much anyway.
With 4 legendary divines pieces and not taking into account passives, that's slightly more regen on Twice-Born than spell damage on Julianos, but 2 spell crit tops 1 max hp + 1 max stam for me. To be exact, you'd have to play it through with 7 divines, wich would give another 22.5% bonus on spell crit and regen for Twice Born, while sacrificing either max magicka or all stats (prismatic) from infused traits.

Still not full decided, but I think for PvP Julianos would win.

Edit: Now that I read it again, should have made it more clear. I am valuing 299 sd over 6% spell crit + 1 max hp and stam bonus. Spell damage gets better than crit the lower sd and max magicka and the higher crit you already have. But just more stats overall you'd get with Twice-Born Star.

I don't see a point going willow's path with new gold food/drink. Gold food+ 5 kagrenac or 5 julianos will be better for both regen and damages, the only think you give up is a bit of magicka so a little bit of shield strength.
However about julianos vs kagrenac's I'm not so sure julianos is better (well for my nb at least I will go kag) if you can use maelstrom weapons or if you want to use dw : basically with julianos+bs+kena+maelstrom (or 2 thorug) you will have to use 1 more mag regen glyph so at the end you trade 72 magicka regen and 6% crit for 1.3k hp, 90 (more if you use maelstrom) spell dmg and speed rezz compared to kagrenac's hope.
You can also go 5 julianos 3 seducer 1 kena if you use dw, but then you loose 180 stam regen, 1.3k hp, 38 sd for 6% crit and 1.3k magicka compared to 5 kag's 1 kena 1 bloodspawn 2 thorug's.
I rather go stam regen on nb, not sure for sorc though.

Cinbri

Decision is kinda easy. Kagrenac only usefull in pvp for ressing; spell damage is just small bonus to make set less pathetic. If you are not pvp templar, kagrenac is not for you.

havok561

Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

KostasDragonborn

havok561 wrote: »

Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

Cryhavoc

Without repeating the math:

In PVP, a Templar healer who is in a support role will probably be better off running 5 pc Kagrenac over Julianos or Twice born (this is my conclusion any way).

I will run 5 pc Kagrenac plus 4 pc Julianos (dual swords) in PVP, with 3 pc Willpower jewelry. This is to max out healing and support potential, without sacrificing too much DPS or soloability.

I do not have the patience to farm Undaunted....

ChefZero

6% crit seems weak compared to 1x magickareg and 1x max health..

Minno

KostasDragonborn wrote: »

havok561 wrote: »

Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

This.

Also, remember, templars have a passive that adds to crit dmg. Take that into accord for each set.

ToRelax

ChefZero wrote: »

6% crit seems weak compared to 1x magickareg and 1x max health..

The more max magicka, spell damage and crit damage you have, the better crit chance becomes. And the less crit chance you have, the better crit chance becomes.
For PvP, crit chance is good for someone using HoTs (making the bonus to healing reliable) and burst damage (higher burst potential). For a Sorcerer using Surge, it is especially useful.

Think about how much 129 spell damage really increase your damage and healing. Maybe a 1-2% increase in damage?

I would like to have magicka regen in place of the crit chance, but certainly not max health.

Derra

KostasDragonborn wrote: »

havok561 wrote: »

Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

ToRelax

Derra wrote: »

KostasDragonborn wrote: »

havok561 wrote: »

Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

I disagree for now. >_>

KostasDragonborn

Derra wrote: »

KostasDragonborn wrote: »

havok561 wrote: »

Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

"There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."