this is why there are so many faceroll NBs right now

Soulac · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Shogunami wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

no other spammable instant does remotely this much damage, stop blaming cloak when the only real NB problem is faceroll dps on stamblades (and that stamblades can heal while invisible, but magblades are pulled from cloak if they use any magicka heal)

I got owned by some dude only spamming Ransack/bash with animation cancelling the other day, doing about 4k per hit only with the ransack, pair that with light attack and bash and you get sword and boarders who can do nearly 10k per hit. I got healed during this fight, so I survived for about 3-4 seconds instead of ½-1. And I also have 20k physical resistence.

Don't go crying about NB's, they're the ones that I kill the most easily as an NB and all other classes are way tougher, for me at least.

Now replace the Ransack with Surprise Attacks (still on S&B) and the combo of:
Light Attack -> Surprise Attacks -> Bash

....is nothing short of faceroll burst. It's basically what @soulac does

However the QQ about NBs is not only about Suprise Attacks or only about Cloak. It's because of the whole package they offer. A lot of it is down to how stamina builds work in general but the whole stamblade package is insane.

It's the single target burst, it's the AoE damage, it's the escape capabilities, it's the best DoT heals, it's the awesome ultimates.

NBs currently make the best stamina class and probably the best magicka class (on a par with Sorc). And in IC where they can skip past mobs at will, they are OP as feck. Which is why the QQ against them is gathering momentum.

NB´s don´t offer great aoe dmg, at least not better as other classes could do.
NB´s single target burst is high cause it´s a class for high single target burst, everything is based on that.
NB´s got great escape capabilities since they can barely stand in the middle of a fight unlike Templars or DKs. Would be boring if everyone got the same skills, same passives, same everything, wouldn´t it?
DoT heals.. Magicka NB sure, but it´s the only real class heal imo.
Awesome Ultimates? I like the DK Ultimates more, but probably cause they got the only physical dmg ultimate.

NB´s best stamina class? In PvP? Sure, won´t argue about that since it´s kinda true, but in duels I think every class is able to beat any other class regardless of stamina or magicka. In group fights all what matters are support skills and aoe, which is available to all four classes.
IC is a PvE Area and PvP barely exists there, so you want to "balance" something around a dlc, something only some players even play? Range Mobs and boss mobs in IC already break cloak often enough, but you can move freely out of fight, which is true.
Don´t see a problem with it tho since it´s basically the NB´s defense.

Just saying that the screenshot above proves that this guy did nothing or died to the stun-delay bug, nothing what justifies NB-QQ.

You don´t want the NB to escape. You don´t want the NB to deal good dmg. Then tell me what you expect from a nightblade, a class which is supposed to walk through shadows and is single target focused?

Well, it´s pointless to say anything to the NB-QQ.. that´s why i normally don´t post anything regarding this, but this thread here..
Four whole seconds of doing nothing or at least that´s what i can see from the given information.

SHADOW2KK · October 2015

Soulac wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Shogunami wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

no other spammable instant does remotely this much damage, stop blaming cloak when the only real NB problem is faceroll dps on stamblades (and that stamblades can heal while invisible, but magblades are pulled from cloak if they use any magicka heal)

I got owned by some dude only spamming Ransack/bash with animation cancelling the other day, doing about 4k per hit only with the ransack, pair that with light attack and bash and you get sword and boarders who can do nearly 10k per hit. I got healed during this fight, so I survived for about 3-4 seconds instead of ½-1. And I also have 20k physical resistence.

Don't go crying about NB's, they're the ones that I kill the most easily as an NB and all other classes are way tougher, for me at least.

Now replace the Ransack with Surprise Attacks (still on S&B) and the combo of:
Light Attack -> Surprise Attacks -> Bash

....is nothing short of faceroll burst. It's basically what @soulac does

However the QQ about NBs is not only about Suprise Attacks or only about Cloak. It's because of the whole package they offer. A lot of it is down to how stamina builds work in general but the whole stamblade package is insane.

It's the single target burst, it's the AoE damage, it's the escape capabilities, it's the best DoT heals, it's the awesome ultimates.

NBs currently make the best stamina class and probably the best magicka class (on a par with Sorc). And in IC where they can skip past mobs at will, they are OP as feck. Which is why the QQ against them is gathering momentum.

NB´s don´t offer great aoe dmg, at least not better as other classes could do.
NB´s single target burst is high cause it´s a class for high single target burst, everything is based on that.
NB´s got great escape capabilities since they can barely stand in the middle of a fight unlike Templars or DKs. Would be boring if everyone got the same skills, same passives, same everything, wouldn´t it?
DoT heals.. Magicka NB sure, but it´s the only real class heal imo.
Awesome Ultimates? I like the DK Ultimates more, but probably cause they got the only physical dmg ultimate.

NB´s best stamina class? In PvP? Sure, won´t argue about that since it´s kinda true, but in duels I think every class is able to beat any other class regardless of stamina or magicka. In group fights all what matters are support skills and aoe, which is available to all four classes.
IC is a PvE Area and PvP barely exists there, so you want to "balance" something around a dlc, something only some players even play? Range Mobs and boss mobs in IC already break cloak often enough, but you can move freely out of fight, which is true.
Don´t see a problem with it tho since it´s basically the NB´s defense.

Just saying that the screenshot above proves that this guy did nothing or died to the stun-delay bug, nothing what justifies NB-QQ.

You don´t want the NB to escape. You don´t want the NB to deal good dmg. Then tell me what you expect from a nightblade, a class which is supposed to walk through shadows and is single target focused?

Well, it´s pointless to say anything to the NB-QQ.. that´s why i normally don´t post anything regarding this, but this thread here..
Four whole seconds of doing nothing or at least that´s what i can see from the given information.

This..

Maulkin · October 2015

Soulac wrote: »

NB´s don´t offer great aoe dmg, at least not better as other classes could do.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of it is down to how stamina builds work in general

Like I said, not all of it is specific to NBs. But when it all comes together the NB has best package imo. If you don't think so, fine, but I will kindly disagree

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

I've always felt NB would be good once they nudged it in the right direction. I'm fine with where NB is at, but I'm not fine with how the Health stat operates in the game currently. I'll reiterate what I've said before, but I think it is preposterous that Magic/Stam scale damage, but Health does nothing for you but make it take slightly more time til you die. Health levels should reduce costs of block/dodge/bash/sprint and should improve efficacy of all tanking effects on a skill (Shield, Resists, etc). I'd also argue it should help return resources on light/heavy attacks as well. I just want to see the true WARRIOR build shine in this game for once. Its been nothing but Rogue and Mage all the way through, and that has been the crux of how tanking has operated all along. Until they solve this issue the Tank vs. Dps dichotomy will never get properly sorted.

xylena · October 2015

I just want to see the true WARRIOR build shine in this game for once

heavy armor stam dk is pretty good

Just saying that the screenshot above proves that this guy did nothing or died to the stun-delay bug, nothing what justifies NB-QQ.

i'm female, not a guy... i would love to see BUFFS to stamblade moves like power extraction, killers blade, and hey maybe even changing the incap strike morph of death stroke to physical damage! but as long as stamblades are jumping people and killing them with 1 faceroll spammable instant that cuts a third of their health down... then rolling away and healing back to full health while invisible... there's gonna be a lot of QQ...

and the cloak QQers do need to know that stamblades can use their heals while cloaking, while magblades can't... magblades can spam cloak, but nothing they do is remotely as effective in pvp as roll-cloak-heal followed by spamming a cheap instant cast that consistently hits harder than some ultimates (yes this is largely affected by CP that makes it easy to defend against magic damage but not physical damage)

Wreuntzylla · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

a.skelton92 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I find amusing in this patch is when spam meets spam.

The templar jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab Vs. stamina NBs are a sight to behold...

Jab spam has always confused me.. Is it supposed to be an effective playstyle or something? I always hear about it but.. I have NEVER (whatever class I've played) been beaten in a fight by a Templar spamming it. If i ever encounter one that does spam it; its a free kill. Does not seem effective in the slightest. ??

Be sure to post that when the people I and other magicka templars kill by biting jabs spam begin to get annoyed and start nerf jabs posts

Any offensive spam is more effective than it ought to be because bashing, blocking, and dodging are prohibitively expensive for players that are not stamina builds with good regeneration rates.

I would agree that spamming by itself is not particularly difficult to defeat, but an experienced player who knows how to supplement that spam with intelligent use of movement, CC, LOS, etc., is a very difficult opponent.

It is also pretty hard for an NB to stay stealthed when you spam sweeps/jabs, unless they disengage entirely. I dislike fighting magicka NBs in IC because they almost always disengage into a pack of mobs and I won't follow them there.

You are using biting jabs as a magicka templar?

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

nightblade class does not have a healing spell.
stop saying we heal ourselves while cloaked,
and also, cloak has nothing to do with this fight your describing.

Stamblades heal with rally/vigor. Pretty sure you can rally/vigor without breaking stealth, whereas every spell from resto staff skill line will pull you out of stealth. So what the op said stands true.

SHADOW2KK · October 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

nightblade class does not have a healing spell.
stop saying we heal ourselves while cloaked,
and also, cloak has nothing to do with this fight your describing.

Stamblades heal with rally/vigor. Pretty sure you can rally/vigor without breaking stealth, whereas every spell from resto staff skill line will pull you out of stealth. So what the op said stands true.

True, and aye you can rally/vigor without breaking stealth.

Lucky28 · October 2015

i've had three NB's on me spamming that *** on me all at the same time. that is really annoying i'll give you that.

but chain fear is what i really dislike.

Cody · October 2015

blur wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

i don't care if i'm ganked while fighting a bunch of mobs or rummaging my bag or looking at a map, if i'm not paying enough attention i definitely should lose... but it should take more than facerolling 1 button to do it, no? in a "fair" fight situation i more than likely win easily here, but the chaos of the battlefield is part of what makes ESO fun, i have no complaints there

when the optimal stamblade rotation is spamming surprise attack (ok some use wrecking blow because it stun-locks opponets for double the cheez)... it makes the whole class and game look dumb

the thing about healing is a side note cuz the people saying magblade OP need to eat a potato... magblade is pulled from cloak if they use healing ward or whatever, while stamblade heals while invisible with momentum/vigor... this is a massive difference in NB tactical ability

If you think SA spam is the optimal NB playstyle you don't know very much about NBs.

xylena is correct. Take it from one who has played a NB since beta, and still has a NB created in the days of Hopesfire.

its either that, or its someone block-cast spamming strife.

xXNesTXx · October 2015

L2P

Igawotch · October 2015

This "You want a cloak nerf ?? yes?!?! Congratulations, you are a NOOB, maybe is better spend your time learning to play instead being here crying"

Xeniph · October 2015

You got off easy,

I would have done it in 2-3 hits. Those are really tame numbers for a gank.

Edit: There are other instant spamables that can achieve this. Whip and Ransack to name 2 that I have seen do it.