So pretty much everything turned out opposite of what ZOS intended

Thecapeo · September 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

Thecapeo wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

It's true, after a bit the zergs tend to hang out in the sewers. The districts on the NA server still have the occasional zerg but I am able to solo up there pretty decently. Actually the districts feel pretty empty in general.

If a single player is in the same district, and they want to, they can fight you nearly non stop with constant respawns. I was able to keep a sorc in combat for over 30 minutes on my templar while he was trying to leave the zone. I let him kill me probably 75 times in the process, but he was unable to play the game for the duration. He resorted to trying to kite with bolt escape around the zone to get out of combat, but mobs would keep him busy until I caught up.

Not to mention that if you don't have any stones, you can literally suicide into a zerg in a district until that zerg eventually dies, and they will gain nothing, and you will eventually take their AP/TV stones. I did it and ended up with 400 stones and like 10k AP. I also completed my "kill dks" quest in the process. I literally did nothing but spawn respawn and run in spamming an aoe.

The whole of IC is just broken with unlimited access.

LOL! I'm going to try that. Kite mobs into zerg and Steel Tornado endlessly.

This actually works -- I was in a 20+ team last night and one nightblade pulled a world boss into us and then started attacking our stragglers. We owned him several times, but we definitely had our hands full the whole time.

Good to know. I'm going to try this with a small 2-3 man team and see how it goes.

Darlgon · September 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I blame gankers/campers/load screen killers for the zergs. They sit outside of spawns and entrances bursting down the PVErs that are in IC because Zos is forcing them to be there if they want to progress their characters without spending stupid amounts of gold. Then when said PVErs defend themselves by forming stupidly huge zergs, the gankers run to the forums and whine.

This is why I usually leave players that clearly look like they aren't trying to PvP alone unless they are invading my farming spot or something.

I blame @ZOS_RichLambert for forcing everyone into IC all the time. I don't blame the players for doing what is safest and most helpful for them.

That decision probably goes higher up the ZOS food chain than Rich, but yeh you are right that aiming IC at getting people into a PvP zone that don't want to be in a PvP zone is a major cause of the problem.

Though I do pin part of it on the gankers/griefers as well. When someone gets 20k dps instant kill comboed there is two general reactions outside of ragequitting.
A. Get better and hone your build.
B. Form stupidly massive group.

Said players that are in IC because they are being strong-armed into it are going to go with B.

No. It was Rich. I can confirm that.

Making a zerg in response to getting killed can't really be stopped if their only goal is to get "revenge" and kill the other person. The problem is making a zerg to start off the day because its actually extremely beneficial for you to zerg pve and pvp (more beneficial than anything else you could possibly do in the game right now).

I can't really buy your confirmation on that. It seems like something that someone that wears a suit everyday, even to the super market, would come up with.

The goal isn't revenge. It is keeping their stones.

Erlex is a member of Tamriel Foundry/Entropy Rising, the guys who defended the Chalamo in the PTS and got a book written about them. If he says he know, but cant name sources, he knows. Just leave it at that.

Ezareth · September 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

Thecapeo wrote: »

Then after that PvP is likely just going to move back to Cyrodiil

I wouldn't be so sure about that...!

You can thank "buy to play" for pretty much all of these issues. They changed Imperial city to make it a free for all (anyone can enter anytime they want) because its a DLC and not part of the sub, so they "can't lock people out of content you pay for". If there were lockouts, zergs would be needed in cyrodiil to retain access of IC, as it is now, the zergs just roam around and kill everyone trying to PVE (or pvp) for double rewards (tv stones and APs). If they would man up and make their content the way that it was originally intended (has been stated several times by zos), then IC might not be a complete and total piece of crap.

There is no reason to go back to cyrodiil. You will occasionally see people go as a zerg to take emperor once their friend gets to number 1 (because no one is going to be defending it). You might see the current emperors group and the "soon to be emperor" fight in Cyrodiil on occasion, but thats really about it. Theres not even good uses for APs anymore, so people care even less about Cyrodiil. Its all about the telvar stones and treasure vault tokens.

P.S. - The zergs will very very soon enter the sewers once they realize that all of their profits are gained there. Last night on PC there were 3 AD zergs of 12 people, 2 EP zergs of 12+ people, and 2 DC zergs of 12+ people, all of them were in the sewers.

Damn those twelve man zergs! UGHH!!!!

In my experience if you're in the Sewers with a group of 12 people or more you're a pretty bad player.

Above ground 12 man groups are fine.

kadar · September 2015

Thecapeo wrote: »

Man, I was really hoping for some small-scale PvP.

I actually haven't noticed a crazy amount of zerging in the sewers although it might be because I'm not on during peak hours so much. There are usually enough people trying to solo/duo/trio it for some decent small scale combat.

AshTal · September 2015

Yep that's PC launch
It does die down however I have my 2 Servers
Home - where pact is being handed its ass ever day but lots of killing
Guest - where Pact is winning - very few enemies no Cryrodil where I go to play for stones.

cschwingeb14_ESO · September 2015

Trophies need to get the TV stone treatment. Not that you lose them when you die, but in that they are split up amongst the group. That would remove much of the profit from running a 12-man.

People would prefer to gring in 2-4 man groups a lot more

Thecapeo · September 2015

I don't know how you could do that with trophies though as they are actual loot as opposed to an item that just appears in your inventory automatically like stones.

WalksAmongShadows · September 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Thecapeo wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

It's true, after a bit the zergs tend to hang out in the sewers. The districts on the NA server still have the occasional zerg but I am able to solo up there pretty decently. Actually the districts feel pretty empty in general.

If a single player is in the same district, and they want to, they can fight you nearly non stop with constant respawns. I was able to keep a sorc in combat for over 30 minutes on my templar while he was trying to leave the zone. I let him kill me probably 75 times in the process, but he was unable to play the game for the duration. He resorted to trying to kite with bolt escape around the zone to get out of combat, but mobs would keep him busy until I caught up.

Not to mention that if you don't have any stones, you can literally suicide into a zerg in a district until that zerg eventually dies, and they will gain nothing, and you will eventually take their AP/TV stones. I did it and ended up with 400 stones and like 10k AP. I also completed my "kill dks" quest in the process. I literally did nothing but spawn respawn and run in spamming an aoe.

The whole of IC is just broken with unlimited access.

LOL! I'm going to try that. Kite mobs into zerg and Steel Tornado endlessly.

The sweeper bosses work especially good for this.

I had giggles when I did this with molag balls huge death explosion in the middle of sewers, because for some reason there's always multiple people dying to it.

SneaK · September 2015

I think being able to que up for IC would help a little. Also, the increase in AP cost to reassign a home campaign was a terrible play by ZOS. Why do that? That only makes people more inclined to stay in their buff servers, why switch when it costs so much? Terrible change.

Thecapeo · September 2015

SneaK wrote: »

I think being able to que up for IC would help a little. Also, the increase in AP cost to reassign a home campaign was a terrible play by ZOS. Why do that? That only makes people more inclined to stay in their buff servers, why switch when it costs so much? Terrible change.

Couldn't agree more. Actually brought that up in another thread. If ZOS wanted people to spread out more why in the hell did they make it cost so much to do so? So boneheaded. They added two new servers yesterday but they were dead all day and night. Anyone who mainly PvEs is forever stuck in whatever campaigns the chose first. Even if it was months ago when they chose it.

Wycks · September 2015

ZOS needs to start developing in bizzaro world so they changes they make have the actual intentions

1. Nerfing dmg actually hurts small groups and single players
2. Prox Det actually benefits the zerg
3. IC is a zerfest because of stones and loot
4. PvP update empties PvP zone

Notice a trend....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcjSDZNbOs0

timidobserver · September 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I blame gankers/campers/load screen killers for the zergs. They sit outside of spawns and entrances bursting down the PVErs that are in IC because Zos is forcing them to be there if they want to progress their characters without spending stupid amounts of gold. Then when said PVErs defend themselves by forming stupidly huge zergs, the gankers run to the forums and whine.

This is why I usually leave players that clearly look like they aren't trying to PvP alone unless they are invading my farming spot or something.

I blame @ZOS_RichLambert for forcing everyone into IC all the time. I don't blame the players for doing what is safest and most helpful for them.

That decision probably goes higher up the ZOS food chain than Rich, but yeh you are right that aiming IC at getting people into a PvP zone that don't want to be in a PvP zone is a major cause of the problem.

Though I do pin part of it on the gankers/griefers as well. When someone gets 20k dps instant kill comboed there is two general reactions outside of ragequitting.
A. Get better and hone your build.
B. Form stupidly massive group.

Said players that are in IC because they are being strong-armed into it are going to go with B.

No. It was Rich. I can confirm that.

Making a zerg in response to getting killed can't really be stopped if their only goal is to get "revenge" and kill the other person. The problem is making a zerg to start off the day because its actually extremely beneficial for you to zerg pve and pvp (more beneficial than anything else you could possibly do in the game right now).

I can't really buy your confirmation on that. It seems like something that someone that wears a suit everyday, even to the super market, would come up with.

The goal isn't revenge. It is keeping their stones.

Erlex is a member of Tamriel Foundry/Entropy Rising, the guys who defended the Chalamo in the PTS and got a book written about them. If he says he know, but cant name sources, he knows. Just leave it at that.

I am not willing to take membership in a guild/fan website as evidence that someone knows who made what decision at ZOS. If ZOS is similar to most corporate environments, half the people that actually work there don't know precisely where most of decisions came from.

Derra · September 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Sounds exactly like PC at launch..

And.. Yes, according to the official stance, but No, if you go the results of how every attempt to reduce a zerg actually makes them stronger.

I really don´t understand why they refuse to remove aoe caps and maybe let detonation scale for more than 5 targets (which only hurt smaller grps not the big ones).

Oh well actually i do. They want zergs to win. That´s where their money comes from. If 8 great players could wipe a much larger force it would cost zos money. They won´t allow that to happen or atleast not encourage or support it.