Major and Minor Shielding [Idea to stop shield stacking]

aco5712 · July 2015

Yes i know 1.7 has the nerf to shields incoming but with it comes the nerf to damage. Which doesnt do anything to help the shield situtation. 1v1 sorcs are still going to be unkillable. We will see how this plays out in the PTS but thats just my and alot of other people's predictions.

Skills like igenous and blazing shield (mainly blazing) are going to be kinda useless. Both scale off health (which is already a pretty low resource) so the shields are quite small as is. Blazing is going to be 15% of a health pool which is (saying avg is 20k) is a 3k shield. Damage is half that, which is 1.5k and if thats effected by the damage nerf, 750 damage...... Whats even the point of wasting a slot?

How to solve this is:
Revert the shield nerf back to 15%
Make Barrier, Blazing Shield, Igenous Shield, Hardened Ward and Healing Ward all MAJOR SHIELDS.
Make Carve Shield, Harness and Bone shield MINOR SHIELDS and give them a slightly smaller value coz they are minors.
Make all shields associated with sets excluded from this shielding system and let them work as they do now. Or have SET SHIELDS or something like that.

It would work like the buff system. Majors cant stack, neither can Minors. But all 2 (or 3) types stack.

This would then eliminate the 30k shield stack issue. Sorcs would have a viable shield in hardened and harness combo (or healing ward and harness) and can use any other type of healing if they need. Templars and DKs would get their shields back. Magicka NBs wont be nerfed coz they only have the one major and minor shield.

Opinions on this? Im sure this would be doable and a much better solution instead of nerfing all shields.

Blazing is good again, Igenous is good again, Hardened is still good. Healing ward is still good.

Erock25 · July 2015

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

By the way, I think your idea is terrible because making a Sorc choose between Hardened Ward or Healing Ward is basically asking for them to delete the class.

I also find it funny that a big complaint about Hardened Ward is Sorc get to stack all points into magicka because it increases both offense and defense, yet you claim average health is 20k. Sounds like all classes are putting 0 into health.

aco5712 · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

ToRelax · July 2015

They should be able to prohibit massive shield stacking without this homogenizing crap. I just don't like the buff system.

Erock25 · July 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

Of the good Sorcs you list, I only know of one who has implied Sorcs were over powered and that is Sypher. You could say that is because they don't want to nerf their class, but many of them have multiple classes and I haven't seen anything from them on the forums saying that Sorc shields or shields in general need to change because it makes a Sorc too powerful. I suggest you keep leveling your Sorc and give it a try. There is power in a Sorc played by a good player, but it is a different kind of power than say a well played DK or well played NB.

I have no idea how 1.7 (isn't it 2.1??) is going to play out with the blocking and dodge roll changes, but Sorcs are getting 5% weaker shields compared to incoming damage on top of what essentially amount to the removal of using Bolt Escape to never let yourself get out numbered. There is no reason to right now make another NERF SORC thread right now with pending nerfs looming.

I'm not really sure 5% shield decrease can be classified as nerfing DK and Temp into the ground either.

timidobserver · July 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

It does seem like they are nerfing the entire game in a round about way to nerf Sorcs rather than just nerfing Sorcs.

aco5712 · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

Of the good Sorcs you list, I only know of one who has implied Sorcs were over powered and that is Sypher. You could say that is because they don't want to nerf their class, but many of them have multiple classes and I haven't seen anything from them on the forums saying that Sorc shields or shields in general need to change because it makes a Sorc too powerful. I suggest you keep leveling your Sorc and give it a try. There is power in a Sorc played by a good player, but it is a different kind of power than say a well played DK or well played NB.

I have no idea how 1.7 (isn't it 2.1??) is going to play out with the blocking and dodge roll changes, but Sorcs are getting 5% weaker shields compared to incoming damage on top of what essentially amount to the removal of using Bolt Escape to never let yourself get out numbered. There is no reason to right now make another NERF SORC thread right now with pending nerfs looming.

I'm not really sure 5% shield decrease can be classified as nerfing DK and Temp into the ground either.

I play with Prett and Princess in my guild and they laughed back in 1.6 PTS about how stupidly OP shields were. Neither of them openly say how powerful it is because neither of them use forums. Sypher has stated its OP. German has told me in conservations how he has never lost a 1v1 since 1.6 dropped. I personally havent seen him lose 1v1 duels.

I dont understand what you mean by 5% shield decrease. Shields are going from 15% to 50% reduced effectiveness.

These pending nerfs is what im trying to combat. They are a crap bandaid to shut people up about sorc shield stacking but its just going to produce buff DK/templar shields and nerf sorc threads again. Bolt escape was never intended to be spammed 23 times.... You can use it twice without that big of an impact on your magicka. Twice is enough to reposition yourself which is what the skill is supposed ot be used for. Not disengaging when you feel like it. If you rely on spamming BE til you disengage and can come back when you feel your ready, you are playing sorc poorly and this nerf will seperate the goods from the bads.

aco5712 · July 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

It does seem like they are nerfing the entire game in a round about way to nerf Sorcs rather than just nerfing Sorcs.

Exactly. Its a bandaid solution which is poorly thought out. I dont want to see sorcs get nerfed because i would like to continue to play it and i think the major/minor system would be a better solution then nerfing hardened/healing ward into the ground.

FENGRUSH · July 2015

Would be better to change shield mechanics to allow players to still be bigtime defensive if they want.

Allow crits and effects to work against shields. Adjust shield strength as needed. Of course this requires ZOS to test and tweak and find a comfortable area. It would be their preference to drop a patch that either completely changes the skills or multiples them by 2 or .5 and wait for the next major patch to see how bad everyone hates it.

Sypher · July 2015

Keep shields the way they are and allow them to be crit but apply your resist/armor to them.

Make shields scale off max Health OR magicka depending on which one is greater. That way Hardened Ward isn't king and DK's/Templars have a shot at decent shields too.

That is all that needs to be done.

The way they currently are, a slightly above average sorc will stale mate against just about anyone if they feel like it with little effort.

The cost/time efficiency to apply a 15K+ uncrittable shield vs the cost/time it takes to DPS down the shield is way out of wack.

I do say we wait til 1.7 and see how the meta changes first before coming up with solutions. 1.6 will be a thing of the past, thankfully.

Erock25 · July 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

Of the good Sorcs you list, I only know of one who has implied Sorcs were over powered and that is Sypher. You could say that is because they don't want to nerf their class, but many of them have multiple classes and I haven't seen anything from them on the forums saying that Sorc shields or shields in general need to change because it makes a Sorc too powerful. I suggest you keep leveling your Sorc and give it a try. There is power in a Sorc played by a good player, but it is a different kind of power than say a well played DK or well played NB.

I have no idea how 1.7 (isn't it 2.1??) is going to play out with the blocking and dodge roll changes, but Sorcs are getting 5% weaker shields compared to incoming damage on top of what essentially amount to the removal of using Bolt Escape to never let yourself get out numbered. There is no reason to right now make another NERF SORC thread right now with pending nerfs looming.

I'm not really sure 5% shield decrease can be classified as nerfing DK and Temp into the ground either.

I play with Prett and Princess in my guild and they laughed back in 1.6 PTS about how stupidly OP shields were. Neither of them openly say how powerful it is because neither of them use forums. Sypher has stated its OP. German has told me in conservations how he has never lost a 1v1 since 1.6 dropped. I personally havent seen him lose 1v1 duels.

I dont understand what you mean by 5% shield decrease. Shields are going from 15% to 50% reduced effectiveness.

These pending nerfs is what im trying to combat. They are a crap bandaid to shut people up about sorc shield stacking but its just going to produce buff DK/templar shields and nerf sorc threads again. Bolt escape was never intended to be spammed 23 times.... You can use it twice without that big of an impact on your magicka. Twice is enough to reposition yourself which is what the skill is supposed ot be used for. Not disengaging when you feel like it. If you rely on spamming BE til you disengage and can come back when you feel your ready, you are playing sorc poorly and this nerf will seperate the goods from the bads.

Currently in cyrodiil, shields are reduced by 15% and incoming damage is reduced by 20%. They're switching this to both being reduced by 50%, therefore shields are getting a 5% overall nerf relative to incoming damage.

If hardened and healing don't stack, sorc's are basically magicka nb without cloak.

Tankqull · July 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Keep shields the way they are and allow them to be crit but apply your resist/armor to them.

Make shields scale off max Health OR magicka depending on which one is greater. That way Hardened Ward isn't king and DK's/Templars have a shot at decent shields too.

That is all that needs to be done.

light armor mitigation would need some boost too, double its base value e.g. that way it would still be below medium armor but not as useless as it is now with the given armor/resi pierce values.
as you have to have in mind that heals + armor mitigation wich sorcs have none of is a vital part of survivability as well.

Erock25 · July 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Keep shields the way they are and allow them to be crit but apply your resist/armor to them.

Make shields scale off max Health OR magicka depending on which one is greater. That way Hardened Ward isn't king and DK's/Templars have a shot at decent shields too.

That is all that needs to be done.

The way they currently are, a slightly above average sorc will stale mate against just about anyone if they feel like it with little effort.

The cost/time efficiency to apply a 15K+ uncrittable shield vs the cost/time it takes to DPS down the shield is way out of wack.

I do say we wait til 1.7 and see how the meta changes first before coming up with solutions. 1.6 will be a thing of the past, thankfully.

Why is 15k shield easy to get and I only have 12.2k with 46 in bastion and 32k magicka? What am I missing or is this just hyperbole?

Haquor · July 2015

95 points (all points in that tree) in bastion with a 40k magicka pool gives 17.2k shield. 1 point in bastion is adding about 20 points to the shield at this level. stack less spell power and stack more magicka pool and you should easily get 15k with your 50 odd points in bastion.

vichoi · July 2015

All class can use healing ward

Sorc use shield + healing ward
DK and Templar use Heal + healing ward
NB use Cloak + healing ward

If you want take away sorc's shield, please also take away other class's heal and cloak.

Erock25 · July 2015

Haquor wrote: »

95 points (all points in that tree) in bastion with a 40k magicka pool gives 17.2k shield. 1 point in bastion is adding about 20 points to the shield at this level. stack less spell power and stack more magicka pool and you should easily get 15k with your 50 odd points in bastion.

Is that 17.2k in cyrodiil with its current 15% nerf? I already have three max magicka traits and 62 in magicka .... Giving up other traits to push magicka further would hurt my character to the point that it's far from easy to reach 15k.

Soris · July 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

It does seem like they are nerfing the entire game in a round about way to nerf Sorcs rather than just nerfing Sorcs.

QFT. I 'd agree anything till they just stop doing this honestly. OP's idea isn't that bad, and Sypher's one is also goodish. But if you give templar 40k magicka and 17k blazing shield, then it will be the most op thing in entire universe. I wouldn't say no though

Tankqull · July 2015

Haquor wrote: »

95 points (all points in that tree) in bastion with a 40k magicka pool gives 17.2k shield. 1 point in bastion is adding about 20 points to the shield at this level. stack less spell power and stack more magicka pool and you should easily get 15k with your 50 odd points in bastion.

i actually love full magica sorcs(excluding BA/ML cheaters) they are so easy preys as they hit like wet noodles.

ToRelax · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

95 points (all points in that tree) in bastion with a 40k magicka pool gives 17.2k shield. 1 point in bastion is adding about 20 points to the shield at this level. stack less spell power and stack more magicka pool and you should easily get 15k with your 50 odd points in bastion.

Is that 17.2k in cyrodiil with its current 15% nerf? I already have three max magicka traits and 62 in magicka .... Giving up other traits to push magicka further would hurt my character to the point that it's far from easy to reach 15k.

The numbers are rightm though how you can call that easy to achieve i beyond me - the tradeoffs are pretty high.
You are losing a lot of reduction from the lady constellation plus pushing magicka that high severly cuts into regen and available skills.

Machiavelli · July 2015

I have to disagree. I like shields the way they are.

Leovolao · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

Of the good Sorcs you list, I only know of one who has implied Sorcs were over powered and that is Sypher. You could say that is because they don't want to nerf their class, but many of them have multiple classes and I haven't seen anything from them on the forums saying that Sorc shields or shields in general need to change because it makes a Sorc too powerful. I suggest you keep leveling your Sorc and give it a try. There is power in a Sorc played by a good player, but it is a different kind of power than say a well played DK or well played NB.

I have no idea how 1.7 (isn't it 2.1??) is going to play out with the blocking and dodge roll changes, but Sorcs are getting 5% weaker shields compared to incoming damage on top of what essentially amount to the removal of using Bolt Escape to never let yourself get out numbered. There is no reason to right now make another NERF SORC thread right now with pending nerfs looming.

I'm not really sure 5% shield decrease can be classified as nerfing DK and Temp into the ground either.

I play with Prett and Princess in my guild and they laughed back in 1.6 PTS about how stupidly OP shields were. Neither of them openly say how powerful it is because neither of them use forums. Sypher has stated its OP. German has told me in conservations how he has never lost a 1v1 since 1.6 dropped. I personally havent seen him lose 1v1 duels.

I dont understand what you mean by 5% shield decrease. Shields are going from 15% to 50% reduced effectiveness.

These pending nerfs is what im trying to combat. They are a crap bandaid to shut people up about sorc shield stacking but its just going to produce buff DK/templar shields and nerf sorc threads again. Bolt escape was never intended to be spammed 23 times.... You can use it twice without that big of an impact on your magicka. Twice is enough to reposition yourself which is what the skill is supposed ot be used for. Not disengaging when you feel like it. If you rely on spamming BE til you disengage and can come back when you feel your ready, you are playing sorc poorly and this nerf will seperate the goods from the bads.

Currently in cyrodiil, shields are reduced by 15% and incoming damage is reduced by 20%. They're switching this to both being reduced by 50%, therefore shields are getting a 5% overall nerf relative to incoming damage.

If hardened and healing don't stack, sorc's are basically magicka nb without cloak.

Its actually like a 3% nerf to shield

timidobserver · July 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Keep shields the way they are and allow them to be crit but apply your resist/armor to them.

Make shields scale off max Health OR magicka depending on which one is greater. That way Hardened Ward isn't king and DK's/Templars have a shot at decent shields too.

That is all that needs to be done.

The way they currently are, a slightly above average sorc will stale mate against just about anyone if they feel like it with little effort.

The cost/time efficiency to apply a 15K+ uncrittable shield vs the cost/time it takes to DPS down the shield is way out of wack.

I do say we wait til 1.7 and see how the meta changes first before coming up with solutions. 1.6 will be a thing of the past, thankfully.

I keep seeing suggestions like this to change the entire shielding mechanic and I don't get it. The only shield in the game that is significantly overperforming is the Sorc shield. Taking that into consideration, I don't see a need to change the entire way in which shields function in order to fix one shield. Just fix the one shield and move on.

Lava_Croft · July 2015

Soris wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

It does seem like they are nerfing the entire game in a round about way to nerf Sorcs rather than just nerfing Sorcs.

QFT. I 'd agree anything till they just stop doing this honestly. OP's idea isn't that bad, and Sypher's one is also goodish. But if you give templar 40k magicka and 17k blazing shield, then it will be the most op thing in entire universe. I wouldn't say no though

If this ever happens, somebody will have to put an end to Mekos before he finds out.

Erock25 · July 2015

Leovolao wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

Of the good Sorcs you list, I only know of one who has implied Sorcs were over powered and that is Sypher. You could say that is because they don't want to nerf their class, but many of them have multiple classes and I haven't seen anything from them on the forums saying that Sorc shields or shields in general need to change because it makes a Sorc too powerful. I suggest you keep leveling your Sorc and give it a try. There is power in a Sorc played by a good player, but it is a different kind of power than say a well played DK or well played NB.

I have no idea how 1.7 (isn't it 2.1??) is going to play out with the blocking and dodge roll changes, but Sorcs are getting 5% weaker shields compared to incoming damage on top of what essentially amount to the removal of using Bolt Escape to never let yourself get out numbered. There is no reason to right now make another NERF SORC thread right now with pending nerfs looming.

I'm not really sure 5% shield decrease can be classified as nerfing DK and Temp into the ground either.

I play with Prett and Princess in my guild and they laughed back in 1.6 PTS about how stupidly OP shields were. Neither of them openly say how powerful it is because neither of them use forums. Sypher has stated its OP. German has told me in conservations how he has never lost a 1v1 since 1.6 dropped. I personally havent seen him lose 1v1 duels.

I dont understand what you mean by 5% shield decrease. Shields are going from 15% to 50% reduced effectiveness.

These pending nerfs is what im trying to combat. They are a crap bandaid to shut people up about sorc shield stacking but its just going to produce buff DK/templar shields and nerf sorc threads again. Bolt escape was never intended to be spammed 23 times.... You can use it twice without that big of an impact on your magicka. Twice is enough to reposition yourself which is what the skill is supposed ot be used for. Not disengaging when you feel like it. If you rely on spamming BE til you disengage and can come back when you feel your ready, you are playing sorc poorly and this nerf will seperate the goods from the bads.

Currently in cyrodiil, shields are reduced by 15% and incoming damage is reduced by 20%. They're switching this to both being reduced by 50%, therefore shields are getting a 5% overall nerf relative to incoming damage.

If hardened and healing don't stack, sorc's are basically magicka nb without cloak.

Its actually like a 3% nerf to shield

How'd you come to this conclusion? If we're basing the percentages off of the current values it is actually more than a 5% nerf.

Leovolao · July 2015

,

Erock25 wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

Of the good Sorcs you list, I only know of one who has implied Sorcs were over powered and that is Sypher. You could say that is because they don't want to nerf their class, but many of them have multiple classes and I haven't seen anything from them on the forums saying that Sorc shields or shields in general need to change because it makes a Sorc too powerful. I suggest you keep leveling your Sorc and give it a try. There is power in a Sorc played by a good player, but it is a different kind of power than say a well played DK or well played NB.

I have no idea how 1.7 (isn't it 2.1??) is going to play out with the blocking and dodge roll changes, but Sorcs are getting 5% weaker shields compared to incoming damage on top of what essentially amount to the removal of using Bolt Escape to never let yourself get out numbered. There is no reason to right now make another NERF SORC thread right now with pending nerfs looming.

I'm not really sure 5% shield decrease can be classified as nerfing DK and Temp into the ground either.

I play with Prett and Princess in my guild and they laughed back in 1.6 PTS about how stupidly OP shields were. Neither of them openly say how powerful it is because neither of them use forums. Sypher has stated its OP. German has told me in conservations how he has never lost a 1v1 since 1.6 dropped. I personally havent seen him lose 1v1 duels.

I dont understand what you mean by 5% shield decrease. Shields are going from 15% to 50% reduced effectiveness.

These pending nerfs is what im trying to combat. They are a crap bandaid to shut people up about sorc shield stacking but its just going to produce buff DK/templar shields and nerf sorc threads again. Bolt escape was never intended to be spammed 23 times.... You can use it twice without that big of an impact on your magicka. Twice is enough to reposition yourself which is what the skill is supposed ot be used for. Not disengaging when you feel like it. If you rely on spamming BE til you disengage and can come back when you feel your ready, you are playing sorc poorly and this nerf will seperate the goods from the bads.

Currently in cyrodiil, shields are reduced by 15% and incoming damage is reduced by 20%. They're switching this to both being reduced by 50%, therefore shields are getting a 5% overall nerf relative to incoming damage.

If hardened and healing don't stack, sorc's are basically magicka nb without cloak.

Its actually like a 3% nerf to shield

How'd you come to this conclusion? If we're basing the percentages off of the current values it is actually more than a 5% nerf.

Shields are being nerf to 50% effectiveness (down from 85% currently), that would be a 35/85 = 41% nerf of the current value.

Damage is going down to 50%, making that a 30/80= 38% nerf.

So shields are gonna be 41% weaker than they now are, but we will take 38% less damage. Making that a 3% nerf relative to damage.

ToRelax · July 2015

Leovolao wrote: »

,

Erock25 wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

It is funny how you say sorc is unkillable 1 vs 1 yet you post DK and NB videos where you kill many Sorcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQJHfE5TSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ekAimh48c

This guy is a NBand DK who sees Sorc getting their escape nerfed and just figures might as well [snip] over their active defense as well. Why does it seem you kill many Sorcs even while you are out numbered in these videos?

1vX is about finding poor players and killing them all at once. None of these sorcs in these videos are that good. People like Germantrocity, Sypher, Pricess Asgari, Prett, King Richard are examples of good sorcs that know how to play. Fighting these sorcs is the problem im trying to address. They are extremely hard to kill as a magicka build, slightly easier as a stamina because of the burst and the uselessness of harness.

This isnt anything about screwing over sorcs. I am leveling up a sorc and im finding it super fun to play and am going to be sad when bolt gets nerfed.

I can tell your a sorcerer, but i am trying to look at this from a perspective of someone who is trying all classes. Its not fair to nerf templars and DKs shields to the ground because of sorcs (this is the reason the 50% is happening. No one ever complained about igenous or blazing shield lol).

I just feel this system would allow for greater equality and build diversity instead of the shield meta.

Of the good Sorcs you list, I only know of one who has implied Sorcs were over powered and that is Sypher. You could say that is because they don't want to nerf their class, but many of them have multiple classes and I haven't seen anything from them on the forums saying that Sorc shields or shields in general need to change because it makes a Sorc too powerful. I suggest you keep leveling your Sorc and give it a try. There is power in a Sorc played by a good player, but it is a different kind of power than say a well played DK or well played NB.

I have no idea how 1.7 (isn't it 2.1??) is going to play out with the blocking and dodge roll changes, but Sorcs are getting 5% weaker shields compared to incoming damage on top of what essentially amount to the removal of using Bolt Escape to never let yourself get out numbered. There is no reason to right now make another NERF SORC thread right now with pending nerfs looming.

I'm not really sure 5% shield decrease can be classified as nerfing DK and Temp into the ground either.

I play with Prett and Princess in my guild and they laughed back in 1.6 PTS about how stupidly OP shields were. Neither of them openly say how powerful it is because neither of them use forums. Sypher has stated its OP. German has told me in conservations how he has never lost a 1v1 since 1.6 dropped. I personally havent seen him lose 1v1 duels.

I dont understand what you mean by 5% shield decrease. Shields are going from 15% to 50% reduced effectiveness.

These pending nerfs is what im trying to combat. They are a crap bandaid to shut people up about sorc shield stacking but its just going to produce buff DK/templar shields and nerf sorc threads again. Bolt escape was never intended to be spammed 23 times.... You can use it twice without that big of an impact on your magicka. Twice is enough to reposition yourself which is what the skill is supposed ot be used for. Not disengaging when you feel like it. If you rely on spamming BE til you disengage and can come back when you feel your ready, you are playing sorc poorly and this nerf will seperate the goods from the bads.

Currently in cyrodiil, shields are reduced by 15% and incoming damage is reduced by 20%. They're switching this to both being reduced by 50%, therefore shields are getting a 5% overall nerf relative to incoming damage.

If hardened and healing don't stack, sorc's are basically magicka nb without cloak.

Its actually like a 3% nerf to shield

How'd you come to this conclusion? If we're basing the percentages off of the current values it is actually more than a 5% nerf.

Shields are being nerf to 50% effectiveness (down from 85% currently), that would be a 35/85 = 41% nerf of the current value.

Damage is going down to 50%, making that a 30/80= 38% nerf.

So shields are gonna be 41% weaker than they now are, but we will take 38% less damage. Making that a 3% nerf relative to damage.

Uhm, no. If we are basing the percentages off the current values, we must think of the latter ones as 100%.
That means after the update, shields will be at 50/85 of their current value and damage at 50/80.
Now to get the relative increase in shield strength compared to damage, just substracting them from one another isn't enough...
(50/85 - 50/80) / (50/80) = ~(-0.059) , thus about 6% "nerf" to shields.

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2015

I'm not sure why we keep comparing class shields this way. Sure the Templar shield scales off of health, but the morph most people use also increases in strength from the number of enemies nearby. If shields are to be changed as you suggest, then I also want Hardened Ward to become stronger in the same way as Blazing Shield.

All classes also have access to Annulment. I'm able to stack Dampen Magic and Blazing Shield when I need, along with having access to the best healing when on my Templar. If I use resto, I can add Healing Ward to that.

Stop making this a Sorcerer issue and learn to counter classes. Ez and I have been killing Sorcerers while below them in level and weapon/spell power simply because we know the class well enough to watch for weakness.

aco5712 · July 2015

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm not sure why we keep comparing class shields this way. Sure the Templar shield scales off of health, but the morph most people use also increases in strength from the number of enemies nearby. If shields are to be changed as you suggest, then I also want Hardened Ward to become stronger in the same way as Blazing Shield.

All classes also have access to Annulment. I'm able to stack Dampen Magic and Blazing Shield when I need, along with having access to the best healing when on my Templar. If I use resto, I can add Healing Ward to that.

Stop making this a Sorcerer issue and learn to counter classes. Ez and I have been killing Sorcerers while below them in level and weapon/spell power simply because we know the class well enough to watch for weakness.

beat german 1v1 with your inferior spell/wep power and i will bow down to you as my overlord.

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm not sure why we keep comparing class shields this way. Sure the Templar shield scales off of health, but the morph most people use also increases in strength from the number of enemies nearby. If shields are to be changed as you suggest, then I also want Hardened Ward to become stronger in the same way as Blazing Shield.

All classes also have access to Annulment. I'm able to stack Dampen Magic and Blazing Shield when I need, along with having access to the best healing when on my Templar. If I use resto, I can add Healing Ward to that.

Stop making this a Sorcerer issue and learn to counter classes. Ez and I have been killing Sorcerers while below them in level and weapon/spell power simply because we know the class well enough to watch for weakness.

beat german 1v1 with your inferior spell/wep power and i will bow down to you as my overlord.

Is your issue shields or spell power?

aco5712 · July 2015

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm not sure why we keep comparing class shields this way. Sure the Templar shield scales off of health, but the morph most people use also increases in strength from the number of enemies nearby. If shields are to be changed as you suggest, then I also want Hardened Ward to become stronger in the same way as Blazing Shield.

All classes also have access to Annulment. I'm able to stack Dampen Magic and Blazing Shield when I need, along with having access to the best healing when on my Templar. If I use resto, I can add Healing Ward to that.

Stop making this a Sorcerer issue and learn to counter classes. Ez and I have been killing Sorcerers while below them in level and weapon/spell power simply because we know the class well enough to watch for weakness.

beat german 1v1 with your inferior spell/wep power and i will bow down to you as my overlord.

Is your issue shields or spell power?

shields but you said you can beat sorcs coz their shields are all about learning to play.....