NB Burst

jthaanum · July 2015

So I know with the upcoming changes the burst damage will be toned down a bit... But getting TWO SHOT rather reliably from nbs rocking heavy attack into proximity detonation with 15k hits is getting old and is still going to be insane burst with 35% damage reduction. NTM the buff for magicka nightblades with the cloak changes...

I also am specced rather defensively with 5/5 whitestrakes and 22k hp pool.. so anyone saying just dont build glass cannon is just wrong.

The burst and reliable escape for NBs is just ridiculous. End rant.

Seaber · July 2015

jthaanum wrote: »

I also am specced rather defensively with 5/5 whitestrakes and 22k hp pool.. so anyone saying just dont build glass cannon is just wrong.

22k hp is extremely low.

Ashamray · July 2015

22k without Cyrodiil buff, I guess, am I right?

lolo_01b16_ESO · July 2015

You realize that dks and sorcs can do more damage with heavy attack + prox det than nbs if they all use the same gear?
Additionally there are invis pots, vampirism and a champion passive which help to escape if you are not a nb.

ThePonzzz · July 2015

How would a nightblade with a stamina build get over 22k HP? What's the norm?

timidobserver · July 2015

ThePonzzz wrote: »

How would a nightblade with a stamina build get over 22k HP? What's the norm?

I wouldn't bother. You aren't going to get enough HP to survive that combo. If you do survive it somehow they will just throw in a soul tether.

jthaanum · July 2015

ya for any non tank build without food buffs 22k is rather decent. Also.. wtf is vampire or invis pots going to do when you get insta-gibbed from 100% health before reaction time is even possible?

Ara_Valleria · July 2015

Yeah nerf those filthy NBs. They shouldn't be able to kill me when i dont have buffs/block up !!
I wana be able to prance about the meadows of cyrodiil naked without the fear of getting one shot !!
I'm a DK ffs !!

chevalierknight · July 2015

Its a fix not a buff everytime read buff and not fix i dont read

You all complain about buggs then when they fix one you qq lol children

Zsymon · July 2015

jthaanum wrote: »

So I know with the upcoming changes the burst damage will be toned down a bit... But getting TWO SHOT rather reliably from nbs rocking heavy attack into proximity detonation with 15k hits is getting old and is still going to be insane burst with 35% damage reduction. NTM the buff for magicka nightblades with the cloak changes...

I also am specced rather defensively with 5/5 whitestrakes and 22k hp pool.. so anyone saying just dont build glass cannon is just wrong.

The burst and reliable escape for NBs is just ridiculous. End rant.

Magicka Detonation will scale with number of enemies hit soon, which means it'll be useless in small scale combat, which means you won't get two shot with Magicka Detonation again.

Also, Cloak didn't suddenly become this OP skill, it's been the same since launch, it still breaks right after activation most of the time, the coming changes won't fix that. There are still ways to counter Cloak even after detecton potions, which should have never countered Cloak in the first place, get changed.

It makes no sense for a potion to completely negate the most important skill of a class. That's like having a potion prevent the use of Hardened Ward or Breath of Life. Magicka Nightblades have literally NOTHING outside of Cloak, if they can't spam Cloak then they die without a chance. They have no self heals, they have no shields, no big burst skills, they have no escapes outside of Cloak, they have nothing.. Sorcs are still incredibly powerful despite the BE penalties, but if you nerf Cloak then you leave NBs with absolutely nothing, and no one will ever play one again.

Caza99 · July 2015

Magicka NBs may have massive burst in some cases - but is that not the point of the class? Get in, kill the target and get out asap. They have unreliable sustained damage and poor survivability. Just my opinion :P

Ara_Valleria · July 2015

jthaanum wrote: »

So I know with the upcoming changes the burst damage will be toned down a bit... But getting TWO SHOT rather reliably from nbs rocking heavy attack into proximity detonation with 15k hits is getting old and is still going to be insane burst with 35% damage reduction. NTM the buff for magicka nightblades with the cloak changes...

I also am specced rather defensively with 5/5 whitestrakes and 22k hp pool.. so anyone saying just dont build glass cannon is just wrong.

The burst and reliable escape for NBs is just ridiculous. End rant.

You are Chuck Noris. You aren't supposed to QQ.
Stop ruining the chuck noris lore.
Its breaking my immersion.

Zsymon · July 2015

Caza99 wrote: »

Magicka NBs may have massive burst in some cases - but is that not the point of the class? Get in, kill the target and get out asap. They have unreliable sustained damage and poor survivability. Just my opinion :P

Magicka NBs have no burst outside of Magicka Detonation, which will become useless against single targets. Their biggest hitting skill hits for 5K damage if they spec entirely into spell damage, which means they won't be able to use Cloak very often at all.

Magicka NBs that can spam Cloak, have NO burst what so ever.

Zsymon · July 2015

People seem to forget that Cloak is one of the most expensive skills in the game, it has the same magicka cost as Breath of Life. To be able to use it a lot, you have to spec entirely into magicka recovery, and then you have little damage capacity.

Caza99 · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

Magicka NBs may have massive burst in some cases - but is that not the point of the class? Get in, kill the target and get out asap. They have unreliable sustained damage and poor survivability. Just my opinion :P

Magicka NBs have no burst outside of Magicka Detonation, which will become useless against single targets. Their biggest hitting skill hits for 5K damage if they spec entirely into spell damage, which means they won't be able to use Cloak very often at all.

Magicka NBs that can spam Cloak, have NO burst what so ever.

Thats why I said "in some cases" :P
I am a magicka NB, I know the capabilities of the class and I understand the issues the class has. IMO the changes to cloak will make a huge difference for magicka NBs, like myself.
I've seen magicka NBs in a 5-1-1 setup that can still perma-cloak and have over 2k spell damage. That seems decent to me. It won't have massive burst, but enough to kill.

Zsymon · July 2015

Caza99 wrote: »

I've seen magicka NBs in a 5-1-1 setup that can still perma-cloak and have over 2k spell damage. That seems decent to me. It won't have massive burst, but enough to kill.

I'll believe it if I see it.

In order to perma cloak, (Cloak has the same magicka cost as Breath of Life) you have to have at least 3 magicka recovery set bonuses, which doesn't leave room for many spell damage set bonuses, you won't have enough to reach 2K spell damage that way.

Caza99 · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

I've seen magicka NBs in a 5-1-1 setup that can still perma-cloak and have over 2k spell damage. That seems decent to me. It won't have massive burst, but enough to kill.

I'll believe it if I see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEyGdLTpWjw

Zsymon · July 2015

1500 magicka recovery isn't enough to keep casting Cloak along with other spells in combat, you run out of magicka that way.

Caza99 · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

1500 magicka recovery isn't enough to keep casting Cloak along with other spells in combat, you run out of magicka that way.

Did you watch whole video? Clearly not. He demonstrated his ability to perma-cloak

Ara_Valleria · July 2015

Caza99 wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

1500 magicka recovery isn't enough to keep casting Cloak along with other spells in combat, you run out of magicka that way.

Did you watch whole video? Clearly not. He demonstrated his ability to perma-cloak

The eyes ! They ... they just dont want to believe !

Vis · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

I've seen magicka NBs in a 5-1-1 setup that can still perma-cloak and have over 2k spell damage. That seems decent to me. It won't have massive burst, but enough to kill.

I'll believe it if I see it.

In order to perma cloak, (Cloak has the same magicka cost as Breath of Life) you have to have at least 3 magicka recovery set bonuses, which doesn't leave room for many spell damage set bonuses, you won't have enough to reach 2K spell damage that way.

Wow, you need to learn your class. My NB runs 2.8k spell power and can permanent cloak no problems.

ScruffyWhiskers · July 2015

Yeah 2.7k buffed spell damage and 2k magicka regen is easily achievable with martial, cryodiil's light, adroitness or even a healers necklace and rings combo.

You have to strike the right balance between damage and sustain. Even so the "burst" is not comparable to a stam nb in any way. I can basically annoy sorcs. I have to wait for them to get the pitchfork brigade treatment and then strike at just the right moment to get an assist on the kill. 1 v 1 is too much risk because all they have to do is guess right or see the red puff of smoke and I am toast. There are some sorcs who can almost read minds

Templars and Dragonknights are only killable (for me at least) if I catch them with their pants down or on horse back and I have soul harvest charged. Otherwise I can basically just annoy them.

So that leaves night blades. I have a huge advantage over nb's if they don't have a detect potion or mark target handy assuming they are not a sap tank. Looking at my kill count stats it's like 40% of my kills are nb and the other three are split evenly at 20%. It's the exact same distribution for killers (players who have killed me).

It's almost like being an attack sub. You are basically meant to kill other subs and if you can get an occasional boomer then well that's a bonus.

ScruffyWhiskers · July 2015

I watched the deltia video and see Zysmon's point now. Deltia is showing off the perma cloak OUT OF COMBAT. Huge difference there actually.

Caza99 · July 2015

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I watched the deltia video and see Zysmon's point now. Deltia is showing off the perma cloak OUT OF COMBAT. Huge difference there actually.

Granted. But my point was it is possible, not that Deltia's build was the best example.

Waylander · July 2015

Cloak is costly, but you can also use your stamina pool to move in stealth when cloak isn't 100% necessary to draw from both resource pools. This lets you get away with a little less recovery. If oyu want more recovery you can add drinks at the expense of a bit of burst. Engine guardian can also help with sustain if you dont mind your dwemer giving the whole stealth game away on occasion.

Scruffy knows what he is talking about. At the moment, magica nightblade is countered by anyone wearing nirn, you have to still work for your kills compared to stamina. After nirn is adjusted, if will just be any magica build with harness magica and a class shield that you don't have the burst dps to kill (particularly if prox det is nerfed in 1 v 1 and 1 v 2 or 3 situations.

Stamina nightblades are more effective killers.

As a magica NB most of my kills are also other nightblades, unless I am bombing with prox det, which has a high suicide rate attached to it.

Magica NB is a lot of fun to play though. The are probably the weakest PVE dps build at the moment unfortunately.

Tankqull · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

jthaanum wrote: »

So I know with the upcoming changes the burst damage will be toned down a bit... But getting TWO SHOT rather reliably from nbs rocking heavy attack into proximity detonation with 15k hits is getting old and is still going to be insane burst with 35% damage reduction. NTM the buff for magicka nightblades with the cloak changes...

I also am specced rather defensively with 5/5 whitestrakes and 22k hp pool.. so anyone saying just dont build glass cannon is just wrong.

The burst and reliable escape for NBs is just ridiculous. End rant.

Magicka Detonation will scale with number of enemies hit soon, which means it'll be useless in small scale combat, which means you won't get two shot with Magicka Detonation again.

Also, Cloak didn't suddenly become this OP skill, it's been the same since launch, it still breaks right after activation most of the time, the coming changes won't fix that. There are still ways to counter Cloak even after detecton potions, which should have never countered Cloak in the first place, get changed.

It makes no sense for a potion to completely negate the most important skill of a class. That's like having a potion prevent the use of Hardened Ward or Breath of Life. Magicka Nightblades have literally NOTHING outside of Cloak, if they can't spam Cloak then they die without a chance. They have no self heals, they have no shields, no big burst skills, they have no escapes outside of Cloak, they have nothing.. Sorcs are still incredibly powerful despite the BE penalties, but if you nerf Cloak then you leave NBs with absolutely nothing, and no one will ever play one again.

sorry but that is not even mentioned to be thought about by ZOS or did they say sth about it in the last ESO Live? so its far far far away from beeing eventually impülemented...

kevlarto_ESO · July 2015

With the current state of the game an instajiber with the broken trait sharpened on a mace, along with animation canceling, maybe a macro not sure on macro thing, can kill a heavy armor wearer with over 30k hit points in less than a second, they get three attacks off and no matter if you have mage light or what ever counter there is you will drop in under a second with no time to respond. I do hope the update helps this we should have time to react and at least stand a chance in any kind of fight, getting attacked out of stealth should not be an insta death.

Docmandu · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Magicka Detonation will scale with number of enemies hit soon, which means it'll be useless in small scale combat, which means you won't get two shot with Magicka Detonation again.

What's the chance ZOS will break the spell and cause it to wipe out everything living in Cyrodiil ? At least the critters were smart enough to leave Cyrodiil before that happens.

Lyzaaa · July 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Magicka Detonation will scale with number of enemies hit soon, which means it'll be useless in small scale combat, which means you won't get two shot with Magicka Detonation again.

What's the chance ZOS will break the spell and cause it to wipe out everything living in Cyrodiil ? At least the critters were smart enough to leave Cyrodiil before that happens.

Ah who cares, right now stamina nigthblade does taht alrdy along with sorcerers

Francescolg · July 2015

Caza99 wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

I've seen magicka NBs in a 5-1-1 setup that can still perma-cloak and have over 2k spell damage. That seems decent to me. It won't have massive burst, but enough to kill.

I'll believe it if I see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEyGdLTpWjw

Thank you for the link!