Can we hope for lag to be gone on August 31?

Lettigall · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Population cap of a Campaign will be shared between the City, Sewers, Cyrodiil and Cyrodiil's caves. Access to IC is still under discussion but will be getting tested on PTS, starting with everyone getting access.

From an architecture standpoint, Cyrodiil, Imperial City, Sewers and the Caves are all seperate zones entirely. What goes on in one zone doesn't effect what occurs in another zone from a combat performance standpoint.

But will the lag in Crodiil be fixed? It's awesome that IC will be lag free(fingers crossed), but how about finally fixing Cyrolag?

Zheg · July 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Brian must play on one of those rollerblade builds if and when he pvps given the way he dodged the main question of whether this almost year-long lag absurdity would be fixed or even improved upon.

Does the 33% increased dodge roll cost apply to the forums as well? If so Brian, you'll have to respec since you won't have to stamina to dodge the dozens of threads that complain about the same things (though I am happy to see you actually posting again, it's a nice change of pace).

Well someone decided to jump up and take the "***hole of the Thread" award. And blatantly throwing mud in a developer's face might I add.

You want to pick a fight tough guy? The quality of your protein vs mine.

Has it been tested yet? Does he have a crystal ball that shows the future? You're asking him to come here and give a definitive answer right now that the lag will be gone?

I know the lag problem isn't a big deal for you because all you do is clog up zone chat, but for those of us that actually pvp, the only word that is appropriate is 'broken'. All I did was point out that he crafted a response that was devoid of even a hint of addressing the thread title. That's hardly throwing mud. The majority of pvpers are ready to throw poop over this lag crap and how neglected it's been in patch notes, so I would think mud is preferable, right?

As to the award, I will wear it with pride. If I could get an official tag for all of my forum posts, that'd be swell.

Takllin · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

Any plans on when you will tell us what these specific changes will be? You've already talked about the LOS changes, but outside of a change to the mechanics of Prox Det, we haven't heard anything about AoE abilities.

It would be great if we could hear what specific changes you are going to make before they end up on PTS, so we have as much time as possible to go through them.

Publius_Scipio · July 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

Great news! That means botters won't have lag.

Weren't bots made extinct long ago now? I know I haven't seen one since like June of last year I think.

Jules · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Population cap of a Campaign will be shared between the City, Sewers, Cyrodiil and Cyrodiil's caves. Access to IC is still under discussion but will be getting tested on PTS, starting with everyone getting access.

From an architecture standpoint, Cyrodiil, Imperial City, Sewers and the Caves are all seperate zones entirely. What goes on in one zone doesn't effect what occurs in another zone from a combat performance standpoint.

Thank you very much for replying promptly. Really really appreciate that.

Thank you also for clearing up that they will be separate. I'm glad that they will be different zones so that large battles in sewers and large battles on keeps will not directly affect one another. I'm just worried that even individually, the large battles may lag independently. Hopefully the LOS check changes will improve this. And if they don't, I hope that you and your colleagues are dedicated to finding the root cause.

What is the word on what's required to gain access to the sewers? Some have said that it requires all home keeps, is this true? Do they have to be kept to maintain play to the sewers or do they just have to have to be had for initial entrance? Are people booted if any home keeps are lost?

Takllin · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

These districts are all in the same zone, correct? Not separate areas?

How does this specific test you've run, compare to other tests you've previously run? Without that kind of context, we don't really know what this means.

Have you previously done 120 bots in Cyrodil without lag? What, if any kind of lag did this create? What is the ratio of bots to an actual player?

Also, have you run any similar tests in Cyrodil like this after the LOS/ability changes?

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

Very nice! Sounds like things are coming along very well. I agree with @Satiar:

Satiar wrote: »

That is the most encouraging thing I've heard in ages. You have an amazing pvp game on your hands, if not for the lag.

That, and if not for the current gap in XP you earn between PVE and PVP, with PVP getting a small fraction in comparison

. Fix the lag, fix the XP delta between pve and pvp so we get champion points at a similar rate, and it'll be good times ahead!

ZOS_BrianWheeler · July 2015

@Jules forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024746/#Comment_2024746

Initial entrance is what is what we're discussing there and will be tested on PTS. Once you're inside IC or the Sewers, you can log out and log back in there to your hearts content, even if you lose Access in rule-sets where it's gated by Keep ownership.

Publius_Scipio · July 2015

Zheg wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Brian must play on one of those rollerblade builds if and when he pvps given the way he dodged the main question of whether this almost year-long lag absurdity would be fixed or even improved upon.

Does the 33% increased dodge roll cost apply to the forums as well? If so Brian, you'll have to respec since you won't have to stamina to dodge the dozens of threads that complain about the same things (though I am happy to see you actually posting again, it's a nice change of pace).

Well someone decided to jump up and take the "***hole of the Thread" award. And blatantly throwing mud in a developer's face might I add.

You want to pick a fight tough guy? The quality of your protein vs mine.

Has it been tested yet? Does he have a crystal ball that shows the future? You're asking him to come here and give a definitive answer right now that the lag will be gone?

I know the lag problem isn't a big deal for you because all you do is clog up zone chat, but for those of us that actually pvp, the only word that is appropriate is 'broken'. All I did was point out that he crafted a response that was devoid of even a hint of addressing the thread title. That's hardly throwing mud. The majority of pvpers are ready to throw poop over this lag crap and how neglected it's been in patch notes, so I would think mud is preferable, right?

As to the award, I will wear it with pride. If I could get an official tag for all of my forum posts, that'd be swell.

BECAUSE HE CAN'T ADDRESS THE TITLE MORE THAN HE HAS ALREADY SAID FOR WEEKS NOW. HE DOES NOT KNOW THE FUTURE.

You and your disrespect BELONG TO ME NOW!

Huckdabuck · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

So you have that running offsite under "live-like" conditions so you can see if the performance degrades via packet/connection lag?
Are the bots stacked up crown's rear end or spreading out and thinking for themselves?
Are the bots running massive AoE spam or single target?
Are the bots spamming Meteor?

Jules · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

@Jules forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024746/#Comment_2024746

Initial entrance is what is what we're discussing there and will be tested on PTS. Once you're inside IC or the Sewers, you can log out and log back in there to your hearts content, even if you lose Access in rule-sets where it's gated by Keep ownership.

Awesome. Will there be some sort of lock out time period? For instance I'd imagine if the last time you had your home keeps was more than 24 hours ago, you would have to then regain them before reentering? And are you able to get to the imperial city through the sewers?

Also, when are you thinking about PTS release, and will changes to prox det be on the there as well? I know we would be very happy to work with other guilds and players of opposing factions to test and help.

Zheg · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

If you can get this on PTS sooner rather than later, I think it's safe to say you could have almost the entire population of azuras star on NA PC to actually test and see if the LOS changes improve the lag. Many times things that have worked fine in ZOS internal tests don't translate well to live.

Ghostbane · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

Said bots would have been host proxied at different locations throughout the globe ( majority in the US/EU ), spamming the most critically acclaimed latency inducing abilities?

Or did we have 120 bots running from one single instance light attacking?

Don't disappoint me Brian.

Ezareth · July 2015

WTB ZoS Bot script to grind CP for me while I sleep. Will pay 10,000 crowns.

booksmcread · July 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

BECAUSE HE CAN'T ADDRESS THE TITLE MORE THAN HE HAS ALREADY SAID FOR WEEKS NOW. HE DOES NOT KNOW THE FUTURE.

You and your disrespect BELONG TO ME NOW!

OMG look out Zheg, Pubes is coming for you.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · July 2015

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

Zheg · July 2015

booksmcread wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

BECAUSE HE CAN'T ADDRESS THE TITLE MORE THAN HE HAS ALREADY SAID FOR WEEKS NOW. HE DOES NOT KNOW THE FUTURE.

You and your disrespect BELONG TO ME NOW!

OMG look out Zheg, Pubes is coming for you.

Talk of Pubes and protein makes me kind of uncomfortable, just going to put that out there.

On the bright side, we have a responsive and seemingly informative new version of Brian, so I give a legitimate thank you for upping communication levels.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Brian must play on one of those rollerblade builds if and when he pvps given the way he dodged the main question of whether this almost year-long lag absurdity would be fixed or even improved upon.

Does the 33% increased dodge roll cost apply to the forums as well? If so Brian, you'll have to respec since you won't have to stamina to dodge the dozens of threads that complain about the same things (though I am happy to see you actually posting again, it's a nice change of pace).

Well someone decided to jump up and take the "***hole of the Thread" award. And blatantly throwing mud in a developer's face might I add.

You want to pick a fight tough guy? The quality of your protein vs mine.

Has it been tested yet? Does he have a crystal ball that shows the future? You're asking him to come here and give a definitive answer right now that the lag will be gone?

I know the lag problem isn't a big deal for you because all you do is clog up zone chat, but for those of us that actually pvp, the only word that is appropriate is 'broken'. All I did was point out that he crafted a response that was devoid of even a hint of addressing the thread title. That's hardly throwing mud. The majority of pvpers are ready to throw poop over this lag crap and how neglected it's been in patch notes, so I would think mud is preferable, right?

As to the award, I will wear it with pride. If I could get an official tag for all of my forum posts, that'd be swell.

BECAUSE HE CAN'T ADDRESS THE TITLE MORE THAN HE HAS ALREADY SAID FOR WEEKS NOW. HE DOES NOT KNOW THE FUTURE.

You and your disrespect BELONG TO ME NOW!

Yep... we already know the lag fixes sound promising and we will see how they perform soon enough for ourselves. I'm much more concerned, frankly, about XP parity between pve and pvp. While pvp will be a hell of a lot more fun without the server lag, it's still going to be relatively unrewarding if we get 1/10th to 1/6th of the XP towards champion ranks per hour spent playing

.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

Thank you! It does sound promising... and this kind of work is far more involved than people usually give it credit for. Then again, as a percentage of the population... not many of us know enough about it to actually appreciate the engineering.

Fingers crossed for the best.

Valnas · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

Your talk of bots on a test server spamming aoe's, might be the most pleasant thing i've ever seen on these forums

now 500, and 1000, and 10,000 ! go over and above to best see beyond the clearing to the ditch ahead

timidobserver · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

What happens if you have all of them to cast meteor with 15 seconds of each other?

Takllin · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

Thank you for the context, this gives us a bit more hope that the lag will be at least marginally better than it is currently.

Jules · July 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

What happens if you have all of them to cast meteor with 15 seconds of each other?

^^

Lorkhan · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

´

120 bots spaming aoe skills???

Ghostbane · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

Thank you for the detailed answer Brian, and more importantly, the honesty. Echoing everyone else, loving the concise feedback from the team!

Jules · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The bots were casting a variety of abilities including AE's, also while fighting sweepers, base-pop and each other. They were clustered tightly so all of the combat resolutions had to be done in a single server cell which is the most strenuous. Now we aren't saying "huzzah! It's cured!" because this is just a single test and as we've stated, isn't a silver bullet as there are plenty of other scenarios we still need testing on.

This is very good news, thanks for sharing with us. I'm hoping this translates directly to live.

Fruitdog · July 2015

Are there any plans to have a large scale multifaction player test on the PTS similar to what you guys did at Glademist back when 1.6 rolled out?

Lorkhan · July 2015

f, i cant wait!
the hype is real.
dont let us down, zeni!!

Gyudan · July 2015

Fruitdog wrote: »

Are there any plans to have a large scale multifaction player test on the PTS similar to what you guys did at Glademist back when 1.6 rolled out?

PVP with the devs, February 2015. Never forget.

Iyas · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are improvements being made to the LOS checks and AE abilities in general that should help with the performance issues we pointed out in the ESO PVP 2015 update thread. Also just watched 120 bots fighting each other in Imperial City in 1 district (with 3 other districts loaded with 120 bots too) and any abilities shot off just fine.

May i ask if the bots fought with perma healing Springs, Meteor, purge spam?

ZOS_BrianWheeler · July 2015

There are plans for PTS events but we'll release them when ready.