Nightblades' cloak should suffer the same fate as Bolt Escape

F7sus4 · July 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

You are a flat out liar. I have a NB and I can consistently cloak. You keep feeding BS to the public so they do t know the truth about the NB class.

He's not a liar. It's you who does not understand a simple difference between Stamina builds and Magicka builds and how much Magicka each of them have.

Nighn_9 · July 2015

Sorcs will still have dmg shields and self heals, and will still be able to use bolt... why r sorcs complaining? Maybe if Sorcs didnt exploit bolt by using it to fly around this wouldn't have happened xD

Cherryblossom · July 2015

What are we saying, Cloak Works now, or going to work (heard this before!!)???

I still get chased and attacked and broken out of it as if I'm not invisible. This one skill has been broken since launch and people are crying for a Nerf of a Broken Skill!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fact you have been attacked from Stealth and killed by a class that is meant to kill you from stealth, means the class is working fine!

I find when I die from a NB the only actual NB skill they use is Ambush as it's a gap closer, then it's generally light attack, Wrecking blow, execute!

If they need to escape they try Cloak and if they are lucky it works and they can get about 10M and have to cast again and once again hope it works...

Mayrael · July 2015

On my stamina NB i can cloak 6-7 times in a row, when i combine it with roll it can be used ad infinitum. If u dont know how to do this it not my problem. Although NB is powerful i like my sorc more, cant say why, both are good at killing and surviving but sorc is like battle mage, fighting side by side with warriors on the front line while NB is the sneaky little *** that attacks from nowhere. Nerfing the cloak would be unfair, as its the only (beside of roll dodge) good defensive skill of NB. Nerfing the BE like it will be done is also unfair, i know that runing away sorcerers are a problem but this nerf hits very hard those who use BE during a fight, i dont mind sucha increase of costs but 4s is way to much, it should be something like 2s, so escaping sorc would be still easy to cach and during a fight he could really use this abillity... But now... 4s isnt much but for stamina builds, especialy NB this time allows to kill light armor wearer 4 times. TBH its hard to say how it will look like when it will go live, maybe it wont be so bad but my concern is that it seems like just one class is listened to, now NBs are screaming no more nerfs! Because every single class gets nerfed while they doesnt, but if situation wont change (they will still die) some of them will QQ for further nerfs, and then it will be ok huh?

helediron · July 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

BigInGlenumbra wrote: »

Bolt escape is way too convenient that it's just ridiculous. It does not aid in PvP besides running away, which shouldn't be so easily allowed in the first place since fights should be fair for the sake of fun. It covers way too much distance for little magicka.

Can NBs constantly cloak as Sorcs can spam bolt escape? No. And does the NB cloak actually help them in PvP? Yes because other abilities rely on them. What about Bolt escape? Nope.

The point is abilities should be only used for combat, when bolt escape is only used for traveling distances. That's just not fair to other classes.

This is a good change. Sorcs have been taking advantage of this for way too long.

The reality is a NB has to be very good at what theyre doing and very lucky with the terrain to pop the Cloak and actually get away. Most of the time they dont.

Sorcs on the other hand can BE across the map while a horde of players chase after them with no hope of catching them with the Sorc laughing the whole way.

In the new update Detection Pots will no longer break Cloak so it will be a lot easier for the NBs to escape, especially because NBs often use medium armor (buff to sprinting and rolling) and bow (speed buff when rolling) which makes them incredibly fast.

Also streaking away isnt as easy as you might think, regen builds might be able to streak without stopping but their damage is pathetic. With any decent spell damage build Sorcs will be able to streak 10-15 times with a full magicka pool while in combat. Any NB with speed buff and bow roll sprint can catch up without trouble, so if you compare movement speed NBs are a lot faster.

And how is Streak a cheap spell? It has a base cost of 3351 magicka for the first cast, if you cast it again within 4 seconds (and you always need to do so) the base cost is 5026 magicka. The base cost of Cloak is 3591 magicka and this doesnt increase.

Please don't mix stamina and magicka nightblades together. Sigh...

kevlarto_ESO · July 2015

If cloak gave you some speed burst that separated you from the crowd trying to kill you would say yes, but as it stands now cloak is no get a out of jail free card, after the patch will have to see, but bolt escape is a far batter get the heck out of danger skill.

Sausage · July 2015

Because its very short and it barely works. When you play this game a while, you know where they try to hide, usually nearest rock or tree, because it doesnt last long. Sorc teleport has a alot longer distance, only another sorc can bring it down. Ive seen 2-4 teleport sorcerer bringing down an entire army, when no-one cant catch them up and people run after them like lemmings.

Eejit1331 · July 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

You are a flat out liar. I have a NB and I can consistently cloak. You keep feeding BS to the public so they do t know the truth about the NB class.

He's not a liar. It's you who does not understand a simple difference between Stamina builds and Magicka builds and how much Magicka each of them have.

reften · July 2015

Difference is, streak was used as an offensive weapon. So you were both nearly unkillable and you could cc.

Cloak is pure defense and DoT removal....and you move slowly, so it's just

Three cloaks = distance of one streak.

Three streaks, and you're gone....

Pirhana7_ESO · July 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

We know that Sorcerers Bolt Escape is going to get nerfed, but I wonder why Nightblades don't suffer this.

There is a huge difference between Bolt Escape and Vanish and why BE is more powerful and needs the penalty. They are both primarily an escape tool. BUT BE is also a travelling tool that lets you offensively chase down any target while also stunning them. Vanish ONLY lets you hide, does not give you travel speed or the ability to catch a target running away.

Pirhana7_ESO · July 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Yeah, my magicka Breton NB will be in PVP full time as I can cloak infinitely. I will do nothing but cloak, concealed weapon,/flame reach, maybe take a few people out, burn sieges and the most important part, *** people of so bad that they scream nerf. I will make sure that I taunt my enemy and expliots my cloak to the fullest until it is either nerfed or they put bolt escape back to normal. Cloak already works better than Bolt escape. Cloak is the most OP ability in the game and I will do my best to make sure everyone knows, and once it is nerfed I will laugh in the face of NB as they do to sorc user.

CLoak lets you hide for safety. BE lets you get away to safety, travel fast, and chase down any target trying to get away. BE can also find someone who vanishes because streak will stun them and uncover them.

FireCowCommando · July 2015

Tholian1 wrote: »

So why not just go one further and completely eliminate NBs as a class. I mean, what's the point of even having them if you want to destroy their stealth abilities?

I chose NB because I like to play stealthy characters. Not interested in playing any other class, so if they get ruined as a stealth class, I guess I have no more interest in this game.

Cloak gets massive buff, players talk about balance = I GONNA QUIT

MMO Forums in a nutshell

dlepi24 · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

We know that Sorcerers Bolt Escape is going to get nerfed, but I wonder why Nightblades don't suffer this.

Because contrary to popular belief, shadow cloak can in no way be used to run away from a fight, and that seems to be why ZOS is nerfing bolt escape (even though that's what it was intended for, hence the word ESCAPE in the name).

Shadow cloak lasts for 2.5 seconds (if you're really lucky) and slows your movement speed for the duration. A stamina-built nightblade, or any nightblade without full points into magicka and using 7/7 light armor for that matter, can only use shadow cloak 3-4 times before being out of magicka as it is.

Is this guy serious? Tell that to my magicka nightblade that can stay cloaked from now until any point in the future without ever being seen. How can you possibly say that cloak can't be used to run away? Even on my stamina nightblade I can cast rapid manuevers and cloak 5+ times which gives me a very large distance between myself and the fight I was just in. Add a magicka pot into the mix and I can now use it 8+ times which gives me ~24 seconds of invisibility and at that point I'm basically back on my horse running away. I'm guessing you haven't been to Cyrodiil, yet?

bowmanz607 · July 2015

In the new update Detection Pots will no longer break Cloak so it will be a lot easier for the NBs to escape, especially because NBs often use medium armor (buff to sprinting and rolling) and bow (speed buff when rolling) which makes them incredibly fast.

Where did you see/hear that detect pots will no longer break cloak? I did not hear this in live.

I do think we'll be seeing a resurgence of Magicka NB though. Their dps has been inherently less since 1.6 but this might be what is needed to bring them back. we'll see.

I switch between my stam build and magicka build all the time. from sap tank to dps. But bosmer passive mixed with spamming cloak allows for some great burst damage for magicka. Magicka Dps is still great whenever I run it.

also, i have noticed many of comparing cloak to bolt escape while including other skills loses the battle for you. by stating something like a NB can cloak, dodgeroll with a buff and use a 40% speed buff of some sort just to keep up with the escaping of a sorc is not an argument for you but against you. You have simply stated that it requires multiple skills and a particular setup to move just as fast as a sorc with any setup (stamina a little less so but still viable) using one skill. that is just ridiculous. Any time you have to explain how using one skill combined with another can accomplish the same feat as one skill, well then I would just say that my argument is your argument.

Xeniph · July 2015

Aside from the fact every class can vanish for 15 seconds and gain a 40%speed increase coupled with 5k magicka/Stmina and 20% regen to either pool. This is a fix for a skill, not a buff per se.

Some abilities were never intended to continually break it. All charges and Focused aim, to name a few, still hit through cloak and break it, even when the aggressor loses the target. That's what this is fixing.

And lets not forget that there will still be one ability that renders this skill useless if within range, Radiant magelight. Luckily most of the people who are using it in Cyrodiil are NB's lol.

And just to debunk some of the misinformation going on around here:

1) Hitting Cloak does not slow your run speed. (unless you hit crouch after)

2) Cloaked (invisible) attacks only receive +10% Spell power/Weapon power.

3) Being invisible does not constitute being in stealth for bonus purposes.

4) Any and all AOE's break it.

5) Radiant Magelight renders this skill useless, unless you get 9+meters away from it.

6) Currently many single target ranged skills "see through it" even when the player can't currently see the NB.

7) In a perfect scenario, over the full duration(2.8 secs) a NB can cover the same 20m as a BE. Assuming no run speed buff/debuffs.
8) All DOT's received will break every morph but Dark Cloak, immediately after cast. (Dark Cloak cleanses dot's)

I play both a Sorc and a NB in pvp. And I have to cast Cloak at least 3 times more than I do BE to be just as effective as an escape. Although I find Cloak a superior offensive ability, with one exception. Bolt of Lightning vs a magicka projectile user is downright op when used properly.

Now you can argue any of these points, but you would be wrong, period.

lathbury · July 2015

to the

dlepi24 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

We know that Sorcerers Bolt Escape is going to get nerfed, but I wonder why Nightblades don't suffer this.

Because contrary to popular belief, shadow cloak can in no way be used to run away from a fight, and that seems to be why ZOS is nerfing bolt escape (even though that's what it was intended for, hence the word ESCAPE in the name).

Shadow cloak lasts for 2.5 seconds (if you're really lucky) and slows your movement speed for the duration. A stamina-built nightblade, or any nightblade without full points into magicka and using 7/7 light armor for that matter, can only use shadow cloak 3-4 times before being out of magicka as it is.

Is this guy serious? Tell that to my magicka nightblade that can stay cloaked from now until any point in the future without ever being seen. How can you possibly say that cloak can't be used to run away? Even on my stamina nightblade I can cast rapid manuevers and cloak 5+ times which gives me a very large distance between myself and the fight I was just in. Add a magicka pot into the mix and I can now use it 8+ times which gives me ~24 seconds of invisibility and at that point I'm basically back on my horse running away. I'm guessing you haven't been to Cyrodiil, yet?

i call bs anyone in that area is gonna throw caltrops pop a detect pot or just spam aoe like steel tornado

bowmanz607 · July 2015

I do agree you can spam cloak as a magika NB forever. you can also use it to get away in that manner. But with the rising counter tactics to NB b/c of their recent boost in poularity and skill of many players, this situation is not as nearly as easy a feat as you make it out to be. yes, you can do it at times with ease. but when engaged in a fight where people know what you will do and how to counter it then you will get a combo of detect pots, aoe spam, caltrops and other imaginative ways of countering cloak. adding into the equation it does not always work properly. making the use of cloak well timed and perfectly executed. it is on this level where cloak and bolt escape differ. bolt escape can be used at any time, any place, and in any manner to escape. Cloak cannot.

Xeniph · July 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I do agree you can spam cloak as a magika NB forever. you can also use it to get away in that manner. But with the rising counter tactics to NB b/c of their recent boost in poularity and skill of many players, this situation is not as nearly as easy a feat as you make it out to be. yes, you can do it at times with ease. but when engaged in a fight where people know what you will do and how to counter it then you will get a combo of detect pots, aoe spam, caltrops and other imaginative ways of countering cloak. adding into the equation it does not always work properly. making the use of cloak well timed and perfectly executed. it is on this level where cloak and bolt escape differ. bolt escape can be used at any time, any place, and in any manner to escape. Cloak cannot.

This guy get's it. There are no abilities or situations that lessen the effectiveness or prevent the use of BE. Cloak has many counters, and atleast one ability that prevents the vanish entirely without opening a 10m radius.

That would be like saying "Bolt escape will not teleport you if a root or slow is present" or " Bolt Escape can only be used after opening a 10m gap from your opponent"

I realize that's sort of an over simplification, but it still would apply.

Master_Kas · July 2015

NotSo wrote: »

You're using it wrong. Use it f for defense and offense, you get free stealth attacks coming out of there for crying out loud!

Invisible hits get 10% more spell/weapdmg as nightblade , 20% if you are bosmer or khajiit NB.

But it does not give you stealth bonus dmg modifier like when you are crouched and behind a enemy using a melee or bow attack. Can people please stop mixing Those things up ?

Xeniph · July 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

NotSo wrote: »

You're using it wrong. Use it f for defense and offense, you get free stealth attacks coming out of there for crying out loud!

Invisible hits get 10% more spell/weapdmg as nightblade , 20% if you are bosmer or khajiit NB.

But it does not give you stealth bonus dmg modifier like when you are crouched and behind a enemy using a melee or bow attack. Can people please stop mixing Those things up ?

Actually, even the kajiit and Bosmer passive does not apply to "Invisible". It only applies to "Stealth". As Cloak is classified as "invisible". Otherwise you are 100% correct.

Lorkhan · July 2015

im a nb and i agree. +1 OP

Master_Kas · July 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

NotSo wrote: »

You're using it wrong. Use it f for defense and offense, you get free stealth attacks coming out of there for crying out loud!

Invisible hits get 10% more spell/weapdmg as nightblade , 20% if you are bosmer or khajiit NB.

But it does not give you stealth bonus dmg modifier like when you are crouched and behind a enemy using a melee or bow attack. Can people please stop mixing Those things up ?

Actually, even the kajiit and Bosmer passive does not apply to "Invisible". It only applies to "Stealth". As Cloak is classified as "invisible". Otherwise you are 100% correct.

Are you sure it doesn't? My NB is imperial so I have no clue, just thought it was the same buff as the NB passive

Ty for letting me know tough

GaldorP · July 2015

I wouldn't mind if all skills in the game had a gradual cost increase if you use them repeatedly within a short amount if time

tist · July 2015

Bolt escape cost should reset after casting a spell on an enemy. Cloak should work similarly.

Armann · July 2015

Disable all healing effects and health regen while cloaked.

psufan5 · July 2015

This is embarrassing. There are counters to everything in this game, and it amazes me that none of you doing the whining, takes the time to figure things out.

Don't like bolt escape? Use a gap closer. Still aren't good enough to kill them? Stop chasing them.
Don't like cloak? Use any number of abilities specifically designed to limit its effectiveness. Anything from caltrops, mage light, or the detection ability in the support tree. Just because you don't want to add one of these abilities to your bar, doesn't mean an entire class needs a nerf.
Don't like DKs self-healing? Use disease. Don't like DKs reflect? Stop being stupid.
Don't like templar healing? Heal debuff them.

It baffles me that 20 years of MMOs and people still refuse to adapt. Please devs, don't give in to class nerfs. Keep bolt escape powerful. Keep reflect powerful. Keep templar heals powerful. Keep cloak powerful. These are the core abilities of these classes that define who they are.

Sometimes you just need to let the cry babies leave the game to make it better for the masses.

Tonnopesce · July 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

We know that Sorcerers Bolt Escape is going to get nerfed, but I wonder why Nightblades don't suffer this.

Simple... because you need to cast the cloack 4-5 times before it actually works.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Project-Danny · September 2015

Yes its too spammable