50% Less Damage in Cyro will break the game. Major Flaw

timidobserver · July 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

50% damage reduction really isn't that big of a deal when you consider all of the damage you can gain from the champion system, 2 more veteran ranks, whatever new exploits people come up with using the new gear sets, and the fact that it isn't that hard to have enough armor/spell penetration that you will bypass the majority of the average player's armor/spell resistance.

There's no logic thinking in your argument.
That you can have a lot of damage and bypass a lot of mitigation doesn't mean that the damage reduction is somehow not much of a deal. In fact, active defenses are very strong and resource management already has been dumbed down by a large margin with 1.6, so if you can not burst down a decent player, he's not going to die at all. And that makes the damage reduction very relevant.

Prior to the Champion system and the massively inflated damage that came with it, people managed to kill people. I am 100% certain that people will adjust their builds/playstyles and manage to kill people after the update. In fact, I suspect more people will be dying more a lot more often now that most of the "active defenses" like dodge rolling, blocking, shielding, healing, bolt escaping, are all being nerfed. There is also the nirnhoned nerf/fix, which is going to make spell resistance about as worthless as armor currently is. Then of course you have the new veteran ranks, which will be a flat damage increase for evveryone. Going off of the interview, nightblades are receiving the only defensive buff that I heard in the interview aside from the flat damage reduction.

Vizier · July 2015

Truewan wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Truewan wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

We already have -20% damage, and the game is like Counter Strike. 50% won't be a dramatical change

There are two major factors it's like Counter Strike:
1. Because people are dumb and refuse to use Radiant Magelight. Start running that and the "one shot" goes away. Zergs are another thing altogether, in fact this damage reduction is going to encourage more zerg play due to the increase in TTK.
2. There are a lot of new/bad players who don't have the faintest idea how to play this game. The lack of situational awareness coupled with bad decisions make the majority of people I run into an easy kill.

In case you have not noticed, this change is really a piecemeal change to placate the PvE crowd or those who want rewards for 0 effort. These forum sections are rife with whining based on false information predicated on myopia and a high self worth.

A lot of these changes are not good and will not fix the core problems with the current PvP system. More importantly the game is still an unstable fickle piece of junk with problems dating back to the beta. Good thing they keep putting out limited time only 3k crown mounts!

I am sure a patronizing attitude is the way to convince others of their inferiority on a video game that is played for fun and entertainment.

The magelight thing is great - if you're a caster. It does nothing for my stamina builds, isn't it also ridiculous that I have to give up 20% of my abilities to counter one aspect of gameplay?!

I liked the random red herring fallacy you used about 3k crown mounts, we live in a capitalist system my friend, get with the times, there is nothing wrong with making money - even at the expensive of your gaming balancing concerns - because it creates further incentive to continue updating the game with more content and also, they can do whatever they like because it is their game. <--- You should not reply to this at all because it has no bearing on the original topic, it's just my rant about people complaining how they create crown items and this game is unbalanced. You just have the wrong point of view.

Your belief that players do not know the whole game and are complaining is warranted, which is why Zenimax has repeated stated that it is their goal to push out little changes over time and not randomly break the game by listening to players. I would wait until the actual PTS comes out to make any judgements at this point.

Magelight is not just for casters. One of the morphs is defensive, pops people out of stealth also reducing all incoming sneak attacks by 50% to you and those near you AND removes the stun. That means an attack that would do 20k now does 10k. So not only do you free up a potion slot, you can't be 1 shot or stunned from sneak attacks.

It does nothing for my stamina builds

This is my favorite quote. So you are telling me your stamina builds are not for doing damage? This statement really displays your ignorance on game mechanics. Having this spell on at least 1 bar (not 2) will allow you to toggle it before attacking thus activating a 20% damage increase to your next attack. It's called Might of the Guild. This works with anything from heavy attacks to weapon/class skills. This buff is called Empower which happens to stack with Major Savagery (Rally, Crit Surge) and Minor Berserk (Grim Focus, Combat Prayer, etc). Most good players use this on their openers hence the high damage.

Lastly (regarding Radiant Magelight), I never said it was perfect (the game needs work). However whining about sacrificing a skill slot to prevent being one shot is trite and softminded. So many people are willing to sacrifice a weapon slot (something much more serious) for 1 ability (2h-Rally or Resto - Healing Ward) but yet act like the sky is falling when it's advised they add a skill that prevents the one shot.

I liked the random red herring fallacy...

If you understood context you would realize that wasn't a red herring. Then again, responses like these are rather par for the course...
Before you turn into Captain Cavalier and ride in on your white horse to save the day, it would be wise to know context and history. I have been playing this game for 2 years now. There are several very broken things that have not been fixed. These problems predate the release and have had tons of pages devoted to them with little to no response from ZOS. It is insulting to faithful subscribers when ZOS will release a 25$ mount every month targeted at impulse buyers but yet not fix issues long overdue. In context (I state again), this update is nothing but more piecemeal to placate whiny people who are happy with scraps from the master's table. ZOS will gladly grab up every dollar they can while ignoring the real needs of the community. Eric Wrobel's presentation a few days ago demonstrates the major disconnect between ZOS and the gaming community. They have failed to deliver on everything so far and their lack of transparency only makes things worse.

I and many others would rather see fixes to lag (cyrodiil) and game stability (endless loading screens, falling through content, game crashes, game freezes, guild banks not loading, not being able to attack/weapon swap, etc), rather than have content, trinkets, and other fluff, let alone some half-ass hamfisted balancing attempt.

You assume I do not know that magelight 'morph' does not cap incoming stealth damage to 50%. You also assume that when I say it does nothing for stamina builds, I mean it does nothing (we know, hell every experienced pvper knows about the incoming damage cap) If you're caster, that's great you get to have over 50% crit at all times AND have incoming damage capped at 50% and survive from stealth attacks, I can see and understand why sorcs are the best tanks in the game atm. It really displays your ignorance.

Here's an idea you seem so opposed to - remove the magelight incoming damage cap and reduce burst in this game. Yes, we stamina users don't like giving up our damage for a gimmicky mechanic that should not exist in the first place. I am not arguing for not using the skill, I am arguing that it should not be a requirement to take the skill in the first place to avoid being one shot. *Should also be noted that to date, I've never seen or heard of a stamina user actually using magelight for this reason*.

You refuse to see other's narratives and points of view, thus you can never change your mind or admit you are wrong - a key aspect of progress in all aspects of our lives, cultures, history, ect. You even failed to understand my argument for that matter and then blamed me for your lack of understanding, which is both hilarious and sad.

And no, it was a red herring, you're just refusing to see it that way because that would include you being wrong. You're demonetization of Zenimax should be seen as a red flag that you begrudge them for not making the game the way YOU want it to be and thus, how can you ever be wrong? Clearly they should make every design decision for your needs and wants, because the world should revolves around you Xael. lol

Before you turn into Captain Cavalier and ride in on your white horse to save the day

This is my favorite quote, because it alludes to the fact that you know I have some great points and can actually understand my point of view, perhaps you just refuse to acknowledge it because of that giant ego of yours. Whatever the case, you can have the last word.

Umm. I know several stam NB that use magelight before their opener for Might of the guild. It's a 20% buff and the idea is to increase damage. How the ____ do you think they are pulling off 20-30k hits. They use - Maximum Stamina from stats, Increased Damage and Max Stam armor sets increased to legendary such as like morag tong, Archers mind, Shadow Walker etc. They Get masters or Alliance Bow with 1000, extra damage plus, they buff with Rally, camo hunter, Grim Focus, and mage light, and maybe if they are good hit their target with Marked Target after release for good measure with Flawless Dawnbreaker on their bow bar. (compare this to what is needed for a 20k hit from frags or proximity mine. lols)

And so unlike you and the rest of the QQ brigade, they took the time to figure out how to do it, but you and the rest want to play with your horse simulator and ride from keep to keep at full speed by yourself through hostile territory all by yourself with no consequences, even though simply running magelight would NEGATE 50% of any hit from stealth. The Hogwarts dozen must be able to have a chance to spam their shields and BE if one of these patient killers waits for you to drop your guard. How unfair they are. Nevermind that if anything goes wrong, they have to run or die or run and die tired. But for you under no circumstances should they be able to snipe for 20k.

So Now the stam build burst dps NB truly will have no chance in hell to kill anyone before they bubble up, heal or hit GDB and charge, thus negating the majority of the NB builds out there. All so lazy players don't have to feel baaaaaaa aaaa d about getting pwned from time to time.

People say there is "NO WAY" someone should be able to hit for 20k with snipe. There is a way and if they do it they should be able to. Nobody just picks up a bow and gets a 20k hit. For most players with well rounded builds not focused utterly on dps. This is going to jack them up hard AND ONCE AGAIN we will have cyrodiil full of unkillable DK and Sorcs. Real Bleeping good for PvP.

ToRelax · July 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

50% damage reduction really isn't that big of a deal when you consider all of the damage you can gain from the champion system, 2 more veteran ranks, whatever new exploits people come up with using the new gear sets, and the fact that it isn't that hard to have enough armor/spell penetration that you will bypass the majority of the average player's armor/spell resistance.

There's no logic thinking in your argument.
That you can have a lot of damage and bypass a lot of mitigation doesn't mean that the damage reduction is somehow not much of a deal. In fact, active defenses are very strong and resource management already has been dumbed down by a large margin with 1.6, so if you can not burst down a decent player, he's not going to die at all. And that makes the damage reduction very relevant.

Prior to the Champion system and the massively inflated damage that came with it, people managed to kill people. I am 100% certain that people will adjust their builds/playstyles and manage to kill people after the update. In fact, I suspect more people will be dying more a lot more often now that most of the "active defenses" like dodge rolling, blocking, shielding, healing, bolt escaping, are all being nerfed. There is also the nirnhoned nerf/fix, which is going to make spell resistance about as worthless as armor currently is. Then of course you have the new veteran ranks, which will be a flat damage increase for evveryone. Going off of the interview, nightblades are receiving the only defensive buff that I heard in the interview aside from the flat damage reduction.

You start arguing on the base on what happened in 1.5 to explain what will happen in the 1.6 build when we change one variable. You conveniently overlook the changes that happened in the meta between 1.5 and 1.6.
I see now that I won't be able to discuss this with you any further and just hope other players don't fall for it.

Baragorath · July 2015

Agree with @Vizier regarding NB but DK has been nerfed already.

Incoming patch is buff for Sorc which will not be able to die in first 2 seconds and then have more time to put shields on.

@ZOS you have to do something with Sorc shield, let it scale of health like DK or let crit pass via shields and allow to put dots on them - change them to be in line with other classes as actual situation is crazy.