[POLL] Which race needs a racial abilities update the most? Why? How would you update the racials?

Kaide · June 2015

*****This post is NOT about balance. It is about fixing racial abilities to allow people to have more options when making a character.*****

Which race needs a racial abilities update the most? Why? How would you update the racial abilities?

I'm making this post because the higher I level the more I'm seeing the same races over and over....Dark Elf, Imperial, High Elf, and Breton...and I'm RARELY seeing other races at end game.

I'm sure I'll get responses like "I see a ton of Khajiit and Argonian"....and at lower levels you would be correct. But at the top levels you do not see "as many". This is due to racial abilities playing a much larger role the higher you climb. You will reach a point when your Orc Templar isn't as fun as he once was...when you realize he's unable to progress because groups wont let him participate, because his character has ZERO racial abilities that help the group.

Then what happens? People throw their high level character to the side, write it off as a waste of time...and reroll.

However, I think there should be another option. For instance....I don't believe a Orc should be able to do as much sorcerer damage as a High Elf....BUT....I do believe a Orc should have at least one perk that helps him as a Sorcerer.

I'm not wanting all races to be balanced....but I do think every race should have at least one racial that helps them in each role....even if that racial is very weak....or even better...give players the option to select from a pool of racial abilities!

What are your thoughts?

PBpsy · June 2015

Dunmer-Multiply everything by 10.

Kaide · June 2015

Why Orcs...who wear heavy armor and have a bulky build...have increased running speed....still doesn't make sense to me...

The_Sadist · June 2015

Oh.. This again.

Orc / Argonian need the most 'work' and are the rarest race to actually see ingame.
Redguard / Wood Elf / Nord seem quite rare and aren't overly great compared to some of the alternatives.
Altmer / Breton are the 'best' for Magicka based builds.
Dunmer are a good choice for DK.
Imperial / Khajiit are the 'best' for Stamina based builds, with the former being the arguable best race for a tank.

I'm sort of in the middle regarding racials. I initially rolled a Dunmer Sorc due to my love of the Telvanni but quickly re-rolled to an Altmer for the racials.
If you're not a min/maxer the racials are very minute, but ultimately most people do go a certain race in order to compliment their intended spec.

This topic has been discussed at length, there are quite a few threads out there asking the same thing and whatnot.

Skiserony · June 2015

Kaide wrote: »

Why Orcs who wear heavy armor and have a bulky bulky build...have increased running speed....still doesn't make sense to me...

It actually does, because they are so strong they can move faster than other races in heavy equipment.

This racial passive is quite useless in PvE, but believe me, in PvP it's actually extremely useful.

Elloa · June 2015

Khajiit, Argonian and Orcs are the worst I think. It's sad enough that it also happen to be the race that stand out the most from an aestetical point of view.

I think that each race should propose a bonus of "10% in your highest atribute" instead of imposing magika, stamina or health. This would allow players to choose the race for the look rather than for the racials and give a bonus to whatever build you are making even while respecing;
Other racials should be flavour: like bonus sneaking, running or swimming.
I also suggested to get back the Racial ultimate

Durann · June 2015

Bosmer are great for stamina builds. I think you see alot of them too, could that be?

WillhelmBlack · June 2015

Kaide wrote: »

Why Orcs who wear heavy armor and have a bulky bulky build...have increased running speed....still doesn't make sense to me...

If you'd tried an Orc NB in well fitted medium armour in PvP then you would know why this is one of the most unique and useful passives in the game. It's like an extra skill! Try it

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2015

Kaide wrote: »

Why Orcs who wear heavy armor and have a bulky bulky build...have increased running speed....still doesn't make sense to me...

Explain the speed of the average Pro Football player. (Yes American Football, not Soccer). Orcs are also an ALIEN species of pointy eared tusky elf-pig-men. Bears can run up to 40 miles per hour, and look how stocky they are. Orcs go berserk and flip out, that's what their trait is. I wouldn't overthink it, and given their history in the Elder Scrolls series I'd say its lore friendly enough.

If I had to make my guess the two races that are most likely to see some love in the future are going to be Argonian and Khajiit.

Aquanova · June 2015

Argonians=ZOS doo doo

Brasseurfb16_ESO · June 2015

Nah, they just need to remove multiplier values from most passives and give an equivalent of 2 purple set items passives.

For instance Khajiits Carnage critical chance bonus is 6%.
How much do you get with a purple set bonus? 3%.
So 6/2 = 3 = Fine.

Now lets take Bretons Spellresistance they get 3000.
How much do you get with a purple set bonus? 1800.
So 3000/2 = 1500 = Needs a buff from 3000 to 3600.

Robust passive, which everyone likes to hate gives 30%.
How much do you get with a purple set bonus? 120
So 120x2 = 240 so Robust would give a flat 240 inscrease instead of the current 30%.

Argonians Mending gives them 6% extra healing recieved.
How much do you get with a purple set bonus? 4%
So 6/2 = 3 = Needs a buff from 6% to 8%.

Imperial Tough passive gives them 12% extra health.
How much do you get with a purple set bonus? 990.
So 990x2 = 1980 so Tough would give a flat 1980 increase instead of the current 12%.

Well you get the idea...

Than comes the specific resistance passive (which clearly needs a buff), a purple regen glyph gives 50% of a purple set bonus of the same type of regen. So, we can assume 1 glyph = 1/2 set bonus (I know it isn't the case with all glyphs, weapon damage glyphs are for instance only worth 1/3 of an weapon damage set bonus)

A purple fire resistance glyph gives 1810 in that resistance, so to have the equivalent of 2 set bonus, we need 4 time the value of a purple glyph or 1810 x 4 = 7240. But usualy, resistance passives also have a statistical value equal to 1/4 of a composed statistical passive (Brawny, Dynamic). So we actualy need 1/2 of a set statistical value and 3 times the resistance value of a glyph.

So, Dunmers Resist Flame would give 900/2 magicka + 1810x3 = 450 magicka and 5430 Fire Resist (150/300/450 + 1810/3620/5430 for R1/2/3).

Nords Resist Frost would give 990/2 health + 1810x3 = 495 health and 5430 Frost Resist (165/330/495 + 1810/3620/5430 for R1/2/3).

For Bosmers and Argonians it would be slightly different since they get 2 types of resistance instead of 1. So, instead we get :

Argonians Argonian Resistance would give 990/2 health + 1810x3/2 = 495 health and 2715 Poison/Disease Resist (165/330/450 + 905/1810/2715 for R1,2,3).

Bosmers Resist Affliction would give 900/2 stamina + 1810x3/2 = 450 stamina and 2715 Poison/Disease Resist (150/300/450 + 905/1810/2715 for R1,2,3).

Finally comes the specific passive like Orsimers Swift, Khajiit and Bosmer Stealthy, Imperials Red Diamond, etc

I wouldn't change much about those passive but rather replace Bretons Magicka Mastery into its own version of Adrenaline Rush and change Red Diamond to work closer to Magicka Mastery and Adrenaline Rush. This would give you something cose to this :
- Adrenaline Rush : Restore 1/2/3% stamina to player with physical attacks (3sec CD).
- Red Diamond : Restore 1/2/3% health to player with physical attacks (3sec CD).
- Magicka Mastery : Restore 1/2/3 magicka to player with spells attacks (3sec CD).

If one passive I believe should truly be changed, it is Argonian Amphibious which I think is a horrible passive, if you have any ideas, put them bellow.

When we put everything back together it gives the following results :

AD :
- High Elf : 1800 Magicka, 240 Magicka Regen, 4% Fire/Frost/Shock dmg.
- Wood Elf : 450 Stamina, 2715 Poison/Disease Resist, 240 Stamina Regen, Improved Stealth.
- Khajiit : 240 Health Regen, 6% Physical Critical Chance, Improved Stealth.

DC :
- Breton : 1800 Magicka, 3600 Spellresistance, 3% magicka when hitting with an offensive spell.
- Redguard : 1800 Stamina, 240 Stamina Regen, 3% stamina when hitting with a physical attack.
- Orcs : 990 Health, 900 Stamina, 240 Health Regen, increased Mobility and Charge abilities.

EP :
- Nord : 495 Health, 5430 Frost Resist, 240 Health Regen, 6% Mitigation.
- Dark Elf : 1350 Magicka, 900 Stamina, 5430 Fire Resist, 7% Fire dmg.
- Argonians : 495 Health, 2715 Poison/Disease Resist, 8% Healing Recieved, 50% Swimspeed, increased Potion effectiveness.

Other :
- Imperial : 1980 Health, 1800 Stamina, 3% health when hitting with a physical attack.

If the devs makes all those changes, I believe races would be much more balanced compared to their current state on live.

SplendidAngharad94 · June 2015

There needs to be a new race called 'PC Master'
Their abiliities include -100% to every stat
And a starting Hp of 4
Because PC sucks
Sorry, couldn't help myself. I don't really hate PC
Just the 'Master-Racers' who think they're better than all of us, and remind me of this;
latest?cb=20121214195411

Bathing in the trolling

Xsorus · June 2015

Orcs, nord, khajiit and argonian are the 4 worst races

Bosmer/redguard/imperial are amazing stam races

Breton/dark elf/altmer are amazing magicka races

Arato · June 2015

Argonian. At launch they seemed like a good tanking race because soft caps limited how effective massive hp and stamina bonuses of imperial, and armor softcap limited how effective the Nord racial bonus was because it was armor bonus rather than decreased incoming damage bonus.

Argonian has an incoming healing bonus which is nice but not as important for EHP as reduced damage or a larger health pool is.

2 things in Update 6 really hurt Argonians as tanks:

#1. Removal of soft caps, this made races with larger health bonuses clearly better than a 3% health bonus that Argonians get
#2: Changing how potions work, increasing their cooldown timer, and changing the Argonian potion trait functionality.

For a race that as a tank, relies on incoming heals and potions rather than larger health pools or better damage reduction to stay up, it hurt to have that longer cooldown and reduced potion effects

We have a racial that is focused on being in the water, for the love of the 8 I know it's lore appropriate but it's just not that useful Disease resist is just.. probably the weakest of all resists in the game, , and we just have nothing that really benefits a damage dealer or healer (no, increased healing staff xp does not really count because at the end of the game, you'll have 50 in resto staff anyway, now it doesn't help you at all, compared to reduced magicka costs of breton, or increased magicka pool and magicka regen of altmer)

Kaide · June 2015

This is going to throw a real monkey wrench into the mix.....

But we don't even have to use racials...just spend points else where. So why not at least give us a decent pool of racials to choose from? Ya dig?

mdhammond · June 2015

Orcs need some love, I don't think I've seen any orcs yet

Skiserony · June 2015

Argonians would be cool, like 9% increased health and 8% healing taken. Would a pretty good all-around race (not the best in everything though) and would make pretty awesome tanks (which they are already now).

Or 12% increased health but still 6% healing taken.

WillhelmBlack · June 2015

New idea for Argonian: resist healing de-buffs?

Saturn · June 2015

*****This post is NOT about balance. It is about fixing racial abilities to allow people to have more options when making a character.*****

Umm.. Yes, it is only about balance. People will say Argonian and Orc, because they are technically not as balanced as the rest. It is an MMO though, so every race has to be balanced (not that they are in the slightest) in order to make sense for a player to pick them.

That being said. I play a Dunmer Stam Sorcerer | Breton Stam Nightblade | Khajiiti Magicka Dragonknight | Imperial Magicka Templar. Why? Because while racial abilities do help a bit, most particularly for min/max purposes, I just like playing a race because of how it looks, besides the choice of race doesn't necessarily correlate with skill. Despite argonian having terrible traits I still see it everywhere, because people like playing argonians. They weren't really that great in the previous TES games either, but people still played them.

Iselin · June 2015

Mark my words... Argonians are the meek and they will inherit Nirn right after the Apocalypse.

Lynx7386 · June 2015

I'd like to see the khajiit's robust racial (+30% health regeneration in combat) changed to something that reduces roll dodge cost, sprint cost, and increases sprint speed.

Arato · June 2015

Skiserony wrote: »

Argonians would be cool, like 9% increased health and 8% healing taken. Would a pretty good all-around race (not the best in everything though) and would make pretty awesome tanks (which they are already now).

Or 12% increased health but still 6% healing taken.

I was thinking at least 6% increased health, maybe 9% increased health. The 6% incoming healing is comparable to the 6% reduced incoming damage that Nords have so that's fair. (Nords could get a higher health bonus too) I mean a very very specific resist that isn't really utilized a lot is just not as good as flat health bonuses but I can see how ZOS would consider not giving us as high a health bonus as imperial when they don't have a resist bonus.. but no players use ice damage weapons and very few use disease damage enchants, and not many mobs do those damage types either. Fire is at least somewhat common so Dunmer resisting fire is somewhat useful.)

Then change the potions bonus somehow. I don't even care if we lose the faster swim speed honestly but the current potion bonus only really helps if you're drinking Tripots, where the old bonus helped if you were using invis, speed, immovable, detect, etc potions as well.

Samadhi · June 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I'd like to see the khajiit's robust racial (+30% health regeneration in combat) changed to something that reduces roll dodge cost, sprint cost, and increases sprint speed.

No, don't take my Khajiit Templar's Robust passive for this.

Robust is my main reason for having a Khajiit Templar and a Nord Dragonknight.

Skiserony · June 2015

Arato wrote: »

Skiserony wrote: »

Argonians would be cool, like 9% increased health and 8% healing taken. Would a pretty good all-around race (not the best in everything though) and would make pretty awesome tanks (which they are already now).

Or 12% increased health but still 6% healing taken.

I was thinking at least 6% increased health, maybe 9% increased health. The 6% incoming healing is comparable to the 6% reduced incoming damage that Nords have so that's fair. (Nords could get a higher health bonus too) I mean a very very specific resist that isn't really utilized a lot is just not as good as flat health bonuses but I can see how ZOS would consider not giving us as high a health bonus as imperial when they don't have a resist bonus.. but no players use ice damage weapons and very few use disease damage enchants, and not many mobs do those damage types either. Fire is at least somewhat common so Dunmer resisting fire is somewhat useful.)

Then change the potions bonus somehow. I don't even care if we lose the faster swim speed honestly but the current potion bonus only really helps if you're drinking Tripots, where the old bonus helped if you were using invis, speed, immovable, detect, etc potions as well.

Yeah, true. Not too much indeed, the dissease/poison resist may not be the most common in PvE but in PvP it surely is pretty useful, so that's actually a decent racial trait. They shouldn't change that.

The potion buff is pretty nice too, but could be changed a little. Maybe reduced cooldown or something like that.

idk · June 2015

Kaide wrote: »

*****This post is NOT about balance. It is about fixing racial abilities to allow people to have more options when making a character.*****

In reality, the current setup takes care of your opening statement for the purpose of this thread. There is a myriad of options with the current slate.

The real reason some want changes to racial passives is some are seen to have little benefit, but more importantly, some are just plain better. The option to change racial passives from one race to that of another race, which they have said they will add to the cash shop, will probably go further to take care of racial passives than tweaking those that remain.

Arato · June 2015

I don't think I really noticed a lot of disease damage in PVP, since the only source of disease damage is enchants.

I'm thinking 6% health bonus rather than 3% (for both Nord and Argonian), and a reduced potion cooldown bonus

Then it kinda balances out. Imps then have 6% more health to make up for having 6% more incoming damage (compared to Nords) and 6% less incoming healing (compared to Argonians), instead of a 9% gap.

it'd still make argonian only somewhat useful as tanks and still one of the worst races for damage and healing, but it'd be something at least.

Xsorus · June 2015

Arato wrote: »

I don't think I really noticed a lot of disease damage in PVP, since the only source of disease damage is enchants.

I'm thinking 6% health bonus rather than 3% (for both Nord and Argonian), and a reduced potion cooldown bonus

Then it kinda balances out. Imps then have 6% more health to make up for having 6% more incoming damage (compared to Nords) and 6% less incoming healing (compared to Argonians), instead of a 9% gap.

it'd still make argonian only somewhat useful as tanks and still one of the worst races for damage and healing, but it'd be something at least.

Imperials have an amazing Heal that procs off Caltrops that will outdo anything Nords/Argonians can do.

The Bonus stamina and Health is just adding on to it.

The Resist on the Races in general got nerfed in 1.6

you have like 3k being the Max Resist you can have, In 1.5 ....2.4k Magic Resist was the Soft cap in the game. 3k on that was actually amazing.

3k in 1.6 when the Softcap is 32k is like nothing.

Arato · June 2015

Yeah well.. my tank is Argonian because at launch the soft caps made the other two good tank races not as appealing.. but I'm certainly not going through VR's all over again

but I'd buy a race change (and need a name change too since the name is clearly argonian) to Imperial if I could now since 1.6.

Samadhi · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

I don't think I really noticed a lot of disease damage in PVP, since the only source of disease damage is enchants.

I'm thinking 6% health bonus rather than 3% (for both Nord and Argonian), and a reduced potion cooldown bonus

Then it kinda balances out. Imps then have 6% more health to make up for having 6% more incoming damage (compared to Nords) and 6% less incoming healing (compared to Argonians), instead of a 9% gap.

it'd still make argonian only somewhat useful as tanks and still one of the worst races for damage and healing, but it'd be something at least.

Imperials have an amazing Heal that procs off Caltrops that will outdo anything Nords/Argonians can do.

...

Think that the proccing off of Caltrops is an oversight more than an intended feature.

Imperial passive used to clearly distinguish between ranged, aoe, and melee skills, but was capable of proccing off of Melee magicka skills prior to 1.6.

After 1.6 the ability to proc off of even Melee Magicka skills seems to have been taken out.

Having heals coming in off of Caltrops seems more like an oversight based off of Caltrops being calculated from Stamina (making it a "melee" skill in the new system).

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno is the Imperial passive Red Diamond indeed supposed to be providing healing when damage from Caltrops is applied?
The skill is a ground-based AoE that applies damage every second to all targets within its radius -- this does not seem like the type of skill intended to be providing healing from this passive, but would one of you be willing to inquire and clarify?

bertenburnyb16_ESO · June 2015

giv argonians some luv pls,
like the healing recieved should also be healing done or something,
3 % to health increase as only stat boost is severly lacking
and just personally, why they gave damage reduction to nords, those thin skinned soft meatbaggs, while argonians are thick scaled though lizards just doesnt make sense to me

Arato wrote: »

Skiserony wrote: »

Argonians would be cool, like 9% increased health and 8% healing taken. Would a pretty good all-around race (not the best in everything though) and would make pretty awesome tanks (which they are already now).

Or 12% increased health but still 6% healing taken.

I was thinking at least 6% increased health, maybe 9% increased health. The 6% incoming healing is comparable to the 6% reduced incoming damage that Nords have so that's fair. (Nords could get a higher health bonus too) I mean a very very specific resist that isn't really utilized a lot is just not as good as flat health bonuses but I can see how ZOS would consider not giving us as high a health bonus as imperial when they don't have a resist bonus.. but no players use ice damage weapons and very few use disease damage enchants, and not many mobs do those damage types either. Fire is at least somewhat common so Dunmer resisting fire is somewhat useful.)

Then change the potions bonus somehow. I don't even care if we lose the faster swim speed honestly but the current potion bonus only really helps if you're drinking Tripots, where the old bonus helped if you were using invis, speed, immovable, detect, etc potions as well.

what is also an idea, is adding extra skill lines, one focussing on frost magica skills, and a skilline focussing on poisen skills (maybe something with necromancy, corrupting and stuff) that would give the frost and poisen resistances some use, they should make all 3 magic types and poisen about evenly used, but now its reign of the fire mage

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

There needs to be a new race called 'PC Master'
Their abiliities include -100% to every stat
And a starting Hp of 4
Because PC sucks
Sorry, couldn't help myself. I don't really hate PC
Just the 'Master-Racers' who think they're better than all of us, and remind me of this;

Bathing in the trolling

well Zos MADE pc players master race by letting them transfer thier end lvl chars to console and declare open season on console newbies in pvp, having a blast :d

The Elder Scrolls Online

[POLL] Which race needs a racial abilities update the most? Why? How would you update the racials?

[POLL] Which race needs a racial abilities update the most? Why? How would you update the racials? 87 votes