If you update Racials please ensure that each race gets at least ONE perk per role

Kaide · June 2015

****UPDATE - To avoid any more confusion in the responses....this post is NOT saying a Orc needs to be on par with a High Elf when it comes to magic damage. What I'm saying is that an Orc should have at least ONE Racial perk that benefits him if hes a Sorcerer. I'm NOT saying all races should be equal in their racials...I understand the lore behind a high elf doing more damage than other classes as a Sorcerer. I'm just saying that EACH RACE should have at least ONE PERK, even if its a crappy perk...to help them in whatever role they choose. Without that one perk to help an Orc Sorcerer...he basically has ZERO racial benefits. I'm saying that every race should have at least ONE racial benefit to help them in each role...to avoid someone having ZERO racial benefits if they role a certain race/class combo. Currently there are ZERO Orc casters because there is ZERO benefit to rolling a Orc caster. Theres a difference between playing a race that is not as good as another race....and playing a race with NO BENEFICIAL racials to the role. I don't want balance...I still want a High Elf Sorcerer that is superior to a Orc Sorcerer. What do I want? The Orc to get at least ONE Sorcerer benefit so that the person who rolled an Orc Sorcerer realizes that he has at least ONE racial that helps him as a Sorcerer. It has nothing to do with balance.****

If you update Racials please ensure that they benefit every build...

Certain races like Orcs for example are limited by their racials to pretty much tanking. I've yet to see a Orc Templar or Sorcerer. While Imperials have racials that are beneficial across every play style. Nords and Argonians are also restricted to certain play styles.

Orc racials are:
- Increased heavy armor expertise
- Swift running speed
- Robust (Regen health in combat)
- Brawny (Increase max health by 6%)

I personally wish you'd remove either Robust (used for other races already) or Swift (Increased running speed....which doesn't even make sense because Orcs are large/bulky/plate wearers) and replace it with a caster type racial. This will keep things interesting. I think every race should be able to have racials that contribute to every role. Restricting races to single roles due to their racial abilities...is not what Elder Scrolls is supposed to be about. When I think of Orc casters I think of Bloodlust or Warlocks...casters willing to sacrifice health for more damage. Or maybe the more health they lose the more ranged/magic damage they do. I'm sure you can come up with something.

MornaBaine · June 2015

I have mixed feelings about this. For the most part, the racial passives make sense based on the lore of each race. Though I have a hard time believing big brawny Orcs really TYPICALLY run faster than everyone else. So in that regard, because the majority of them make sense, I don't have an issue.

But THEN this kind of falls apart when I consider the issue of player characters. After all, these are heroes, the exception to the rule. Why shouldn't a player-character Orc have an amazing natural inclination towards magic if that is what the character envisioned by the player would have? Or, for those not at all into the RP aspect of things, if they just want a big ol Orc wizard, maybe because it just makes the player laugh hysterically as they are running amuck in Cyrodiil, well why not? What matters is the aesthetics players want for their characters.

With that in mind, I'd like to see them simply remove all racial passives and then place them in a menu you access during character creation and then choose which passives you want (no more in number than we have now) for your specific character. I'd even be cool with being to respec them like you can with skills and attribute points.

Does it take away a bit of the "flavor" from races? Yeah, unfortunately, I think it does. But in the end it would make the majority of players happy and would let all of us create more unique characters while making the min/maxxers happy as well. And that's probably a good thing.

lsneakl · June 2015

Why does every race have to be able to do every role 100% as good as everyone else.

Can a chihuahua hunt duck? Is a bull mastif a lap dog?

Now some chihuahuas think they are tough to chase birds and some mastiffs want to get in your lap but they are by far not as good as another race of dog. This is no different and if anything I would like to see a clearer definition not let. I understand we want all race and class combos but some people will want to go outside the box so as long as each race has two areas they possibly can go into I don't see any issue.

Kaide · June 2015

lsneakl wrote: »

Why does every race have to be able to do every role 100% as good as everyone else.

Can a chihuahua hunt duck? Is a bull mastif a lap dog?

Now some chihuahuas think they are tough to chase birds and some mastiffs want to get in your lap but they are by far not as good as another race of dog. This is no different and if anything I would like to see a clearer definition not let. I understand we want all race and class combos but some people will want to go outside the box so as long as each race has two areas they possibly can go into I don't see any issue.

They don't all have to do every role 100% as good as everyone else....but certain races at least need a perk that they can say "I have at least one racial that is beneficial to casting"

idk · June 2015

It is not possible to have one set of racials that are optimal for any build if it touches any of our three pools of energy/health. Just not logical.

At that, it does not make sense to want that either since a character cannot be optimized to do everything via attributes or CP.

doggie · June 2015

You have to wonder why we even have racial bonuses in a game released in 2014. Back in 2008 Age of Conan had no racial bonuses and you were free to select any race. Back then it was well known in the industry what effects racial bonuses had on the playerbase. Players would only select the best races.

The problem is a new player who dosen't know anything about the game selects the wrong race and quits the game when he finds out he has to restart.

What exactly is it race bonuses offer the players? The bonuses provided could easily be generated from items instead, or just live without them.

The problem for zenimax is that they have been selling a race with bonuses so it's maybe a little harder to pull them.

Strider_Roshin · June 2015

In my opinion, they should have given every race one mandatory, lore-friendly, non-stat boosting passive; and have the player choose the character's upbringing; which would determine the other two passives.

doggie · June 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

In my opinion, they should have given every race one mandatory, lore-friendly, non-stat boosting passive; and have the player choose the character's upbringing; which would determine the other two passives.

It would be better, but still wouldn't solve the problem that players would pick the wrong ones far before they know anything about the game.

They plan to solve this problem by allowing players to switch race and modify the passives for the bad races.

But that still dosen't change that most will select from just a few races.

My main concern is that they have to spend time creating a race change system and they have to update the passives. That's time pretty much wasted.

They've basicly designed ESO on the basis that they have unlimited resources. But they don't have that and that's their problem. Destiny sold more than 10m copies still dosen't exist on PC because it takes too much resources to port it.

MCMancub · June 2015

doggie wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

In my opinion, they should have given every race one mandatory, lore-friendly, non-stat boosting passive; and have the player choose the character's upbringing; which would determine the other two passives.

It would be better, but still wouldn't solve the problem that players would pick the wrong ones far before they know anything about the game.

They plan to solve this problem by allowing players to switch race and modify the passives for the bad races.

But that still dosen't change that most will select from just a few races.

My main concern is that they have to spend time creating a race change system and they have to update the passives. That's time pretty much wasted.

They've basicly designed ESO on the basis that they have unlimited resources. But they don't have that and that's their problem. Destiny sold more than 10m copies still dosen't exist on PC because it takes too much resources to port it.

I'm not so sure about this. There will always be min/maxers who have to play the most optimal race for whatever they want to do, but as far as the rest of the community goes I think if some of the races *cough* Argonian *cough* were not trash, we would see a lot more of them.

asteldian · June 2015

They don't need racials to fit every role, but every race should have at least one perk that benefits dps (so max magicka or stamina) as in reality, that is where the killer difference lies. No one really cares what race you are for tanking, and even for healing it is not essential, but for dps a 10% stat difference is pretty meaningful.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · June 2015

I've oft thought about the orc racial passive. Swift used to be more fun when it was an outright sprint bonus. I believe it was 30 percent increase. That being said one idea thats floated around my mind is an 'innate smithing' passive. It would replace swift and be something like 2/4/6 percent increase in armor value, 1/2 percent global cost reduction. It would give orc casters a little love. Orcs are naturally adept smiths so any armor they use they 'better' and because of their size the encumbrace from using abilities is less.

Junkogen · June 2015

I really like my Argonian, but they just screwed the pooch on them. By giving them "unique" racial passives they made them marginally useful and therefore not particularly good for anything. Tanking? Maybe. But there are much better choices out there: Imperial, Nords, Orc, and Redguard. Argonian racial should be along the lines of the Khajiit and Bosmer. That's how there race is portrayed in previous games, not healers. I get the histskin ability, but it doesn't make sense in an MMO. After all, how come Khajiit don't have night eye an Bosmer taming animals? Imperials had a calming ability. My point is they made other races better suited for an MMO, but tethered Argonians to their crappy single-player racial bonuses.

My point is that they really crapped the bed in terms of racial passives in this game. They should at least give each race a significant resource boost. 10% boost in something would go along way to even the odds. That's what makes the popular races popular. Think about the top choices and you'll see they all have great stat boosts, which make them better for resource management.

Argonians are the race that have a racial tied to gold and materials with the potion passive. Before that was forgiveable because it synergized well with the catalyst passive. Now it's just expensive upkeep.

Kaide · June 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It is not possible to have one set of racials that are optimal for any build if it touches any of our three pools of energy/health. Just not logical.

At that, it does not make sense to want that either since a character cannot be optimized to do everything via attributes or CP.

This is not what I'm saying at all....

I don't want everyone to be good at everything. That is not the point of the post. The point is so that every race has at least one racial in every play style. For instance for an Orc his one magic racial might be something as simple as regenerates X% of magicka per hit every so many seconds...or damage taken increases magic damage by a small amount. I'm not saying that every race has to be even in racials....I'm just saying that every race should at least have ONE racial for each role. Currently there are ZERO Orc casters because there is ZERO benefit to rolling a Orc caster. Theres a difference between playing a race that is not as good as another race....and playing a race with NO BENEFICIAL racials to the role.

traigusb14_ESO2 · June 2015

Kaide wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It is not possible to have one set of racials that are optimal for any build if it touches any of our three pools of energy/health. Just not logical.

At that, it does not make sense to want that either since a character cannot be optimized to do everything via attributes or CP.

This is not what I'm saying at all....

I don't want everyone to be good at everything. That is not the point of the post. The point is so that every race has at least one racial in every play style. For instance for an Orc his one magic racial might be something as simple as regenerates X% of magicka per hit every so many seconds...or damage taken increases magic damage by a small amount. I'm not saying that every race has to be even in racials....I'm just saying that every race should at least have ONE racial for each role. Currently there are ZERO Orc casters because there is ZERO benefit to rolling a Orc caster. Theres a difference between playing a race that is not as good as another race....and playing a race with NO BENEFICIAL racials to the role.

There are quite a few orc casters... because there are people that know that 6% of whatever is not really a big deal. There are huge numbers of Argonians of all classes... because they aren't actually gimped in any way by having racials that aren't stat based.

I understand your sentiment, but really, crazy math people will be crazy math people no matter what... Even though the game is playable to the end and beyond with any race/class/role combo.

MissBizz · June 2015

I don't like this idea at all.

To do this (and it be balanced) you would essentially have to give every race the same passives. As well, race would no longer matter AT ALL in your build, and I like game that actually gives me decisions I must make that have an impact. Even if they were "different" then if each racial passive on all races were towards a style of play, (so every race had a passive good for tanking, casting, and weapon us) then maybe they would have different passive names, but it's essentially the same - no race would be better than others.

Do some race passives need to be looked at? YES. I still want my race to have an impact though.

Kaide · June 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

I don't like this idea at all.

To do this (and it be balanced) you would essentially have to give every race the same passives. As well, race would no longer matter AT ALL in your build, and I like game that actually gives me decisions I must make that have an impact. Even if they were "different" then if each racial passive on all races were towards a style of play, (so every race had a passive good for tanking, casting, and weapon us) then maybe they would have different passive names, but it's essentially the same - no race would be better than others.

Do some race passives need to be looked at? YES. I still want my race to have an impact though.

I updated the post at the very top of my original post to avoid responses like this.

"To do this and be balanced..."

I don't want balance...I still want a High Elf Sorcerer that is superior to a Orc Sorcerer. What do I want? The Orc to get at least ONE Sorcerer benefit so that the person who rolled an Orc Sorcerer realizes that he has at least ONE racial that helps him as a Sorcerer. It has nothing to do with balance.

Shadesofkin · June 2015

It makes no sense that every race would benefit all builds.

Zorrashi · June 2015

While the idea seems good in theory, I don't think racial passives need to be given any more importance. Having them update the passives just for the sake of equal-class-opportunity (however slightly) just seems like a redundant addition. Furthermore, there are various ways in game (enchantments, weapon/armor passives) to gain the additional passive abilities that you seem to want for the racial passives.

Cernow · June 2015

Here's what I'd prefer to see happen:

Scrap or sideline all the weapon training racials. These are meaningless anyway after you cap the skill.

Then have FOUR abilities per race. One fixed. Two player chosen. One player chosen but partially restricted by race. As follows:

1 One unique racial to give each race some flavour. Fixed by the game, can't be changed.

2) Attribute pool boost to one of Stamina/Magicka/Health. Chosen by player.

3) Attribute regen boost to one of Stamina/Magicka/Health. Chosen by player.

4) One damage type boost OR one damage type mitigation Chosen by player, but available damage types can be partially limited by race to retain some flavour.

Player choices should be respec'able at shrines in the same way attribute points are.

MCMancub · June 2015

Cernow wrote: »

Here's what I'd prefer to see happen:

Scrap or sideline all the weapon training racials. These are meaningless anyway after you cap the skill.

Then have FOUR abilities per race. One fixed. Two player chosen. One player chosen but partially restricted by race. As follows:

1 One unique racial to give each race some flavour. Fixed by the game, can't be changed.

2) Attribute pool boost to one of Stamina/Magicka/Health. Chosen by player.

3) Attribute regen boost to one of Stamina/Magicka/Health. Chosen by player.

4) One damage type boost OR one damage type mitigation Chosen by player, but available damage types can be partially limited by race to retain some flavour.

Player choices should be respec'able at shrines in the same way attribute points are.

This sounds like a good idea, but the success of it would REALLY depend on the unique racial given to each race.