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Why all the hate for perma dodgers?
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The_Drexill✭✭✭✭cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »i can do roll dodge for some decent dps about 12k a second with heavy attack, poison arrow, then roll. or to finish someone off with heavy attack, executioner, roll, heavy attack, executioner, roll. you can be dangerous if you are a pro at rolling and doing instant damage.
doing these moves you will dodge most things, i say most because ill be damned by how many damn charge moves hit you while rolling.
You cannot do 12k dps while roll dodging. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.Brandizzle - NB
Drexill The Unbreakable - Sorc
For teh covenant.3 -
Milky✭✭✭Remove AP/XP rewards for killing players. Increase AP/XP rewards for taking objectives.
Then people can bolt escape, dodge roll, and mist form away all they want. I don't care... we shouldn't be rewarded for kills anyways. Objectives are what matter, that's what the map is about, and that's what we should be rewarded for. Making a person run away should be the victory, not chasing them down and finally killing them. If that person wants to run away, then we can take their objective while they can't defend it, because they are too busy running.
I've always had the mentality of if someone has to run from me, that is a victory. Usually better than a kill, in a game like this, where the map is so large and the time it takes to run back to/from objectives..... it's much better than a kill. That person is now stuck out by themselves, and often not able to rejoin their group easily and in a short amount of time. Can't tell you how many times I've had an amazing escape.... just to realize I should have just let them kill me because now I'm wasting time stuck out in the middle of no-where.
Do I agree perma dodge is a silly mechanic? Yes. I especially hate that a well timed projectile has no chance of hitting a dodge rolling target, if he was dodging at the time of my projectile RELEASE... not when it would have made CONTACT. But if they remove perma dodge roll, they need to also fix skills that are going through dodge roll, like flame lash, concealed weapon, etc. This is especially important for magicka specs (I play stamina specs for reference) who for them, 1-2 dodge rolls need to be timed well, as they do not have a large stamina pool to work with. Those few dodge rolls that a magicka user gets.... if there are bugged skills that go through that dodge roll and ignore it.... that's messed up.0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The_Drexill wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »i can do roll dodge for some decent dps about 12k a second with heavy attack, poison arrow, then roll. or to finish someone off with heavy attack, executioner, roll, heavy attack, executioner, roll. you can be dangerous if you are a pro at rolling and doing instant damage.
doing these moves you will dodge most things, i say most because ill be damned by how many damn charge moves hit you while rolling.
You cannot do 12k dps while roll dodging. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Right, where the hell are people getting these numbers. I don't get anywhere near that type of DPS in PvP, and i have no problem killing players. I sure as hell am not making 12K DPS in PvE while rolling around the map, so wth.The Age of Wrobel.0 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The_Drexill wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »i can do roll dodge for some decent dps about 12k a second with heavy attack, poison arrow, then roll. or to finish someone off with heavy attack, executioner, roll, heavy attack, executioner, roll. you can be dangerous if you are a pro at rolling and doing instant damage.
doing these moves you will dodge most things, i say most because ill be damned by how many damn charge moves hit you while rolling.
You cannot do 12k dps while roll dodging. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Right, where the hell are people getting these numbers. I don't get anywhere near that type of DPS in PvP, and i have no problem killing players. I sure as hell am not making 12K DPS in PvE while rolling around the map, so wth.
i can heavy attack for 8k, and poison injection for 4k, roll for 1 second, heavy attack, poison injection, roll for 1 second.
aka 12kdps. lets do simple math here 8k + 4k = 12k and this happens every second with a dodge in between so 12k dps.
Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »The only class with a problem with roll dodgers is pretty much Magicka Sorcerer. If this is what you are then there is a reason you have trouble with dodge rollers. It's because you have no intant cast melee damage abilities like the other three classes. It's not that dodge is OP, its that Magicka sorc has no tool to fight against it except ultimates that go through dodge.
Im a magicka sorc, and what you say is true, to an extent, my main damage ability (CF) is basicly always dodged, same with Endless Fury (and crushing shock) , but my curse, streak and heavy lightning attack is not dodgeable, neither is my ulty (dawnbreaker of smiting) wich I have slotted specificly for dodgers.
So if you slot things that will hit dodgers, youll be ok, if you dont, then prepare to be annoyed.
Curse is really all you need, against a roly poly that isn't in nirn they won't last too long. Protected in your daedric mines casting detonation.
jeah 7-9k crit dmg every 4sec is awsome if they heal themselfes with rally for 15k every 6 sec + evtl. vigor or other hot abilities.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »The_Drexill wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »i can do roll dodge for some decent dps about 12k a second with heavy attack, poison arrow, then roll. or to finish someone off with heavy attack, executioner, roll, heavy attack, executioner, roll. you can be dangerous if you are a pro at rolling and doing instant damage.
doing these moves you will dodge most things, i say most because ill be damned by how many damn charge moves hit you while rolling.
You cannot do 12k dps while roll dodging. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Right, where the hell are people getting these numbers. I don't get anywhere near that type of DPS in PvP, and i have no problem killing players. I sure as hell am not making 12K DPS in PvE while rolling around the map, so wth.
i can heavy attack for 8k, and poison injection for 4k, roll for 1 second, heavy attack, poison injection, roll for 1 second.
aka 12kdps. lets do simple math here 8k + 4k = 12k and this happens every second with a dodge in between so 12k dps.
LOL, what? Unless you mean you get 12K damage for ONE second in-between dodge rolls, I don't see any of this adding up to an honest 12K DPS. I can get "20K DPS" when I Crystal Frag + Heavy Attack a skeever, but that's not really 20K DPS now, is it? Also, how are you getting 8K heavy attacks in less than a second... is this some shady Dragonknight thing?
Edited by Emma_Overload on 5 June 2015 17:18#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »The only class with a problem with roll dodgers is pretty much Magicka Sorcerer. If this is what you are then there is a reason you have trouble with dodge rollers. It's because you have no intant cast melee damage abilities like the other three classes. It's not that dodge is OP, its that Magicka sorc has no tool to fight against it except ultimates that go through dodge.
Im a magicka sorc, and what you say is true, to an extent, my main damage ability (CF) is basicly always dodged, same with Endless Fury (and crushing shock) , but my curse, streak and heavy lightning attack is not dodgeable, neither is my ulty (dawnbreaker of smiting) wich I have slotted specificly for dodgers.
So if you slot things that will hit dodgers, youll be ok, if you dont, then prepare to be annoyed.
Curse is really all you need, against a roly poly that isn't in nirn they won't last too long. Protected in your daedric mines casting detonation.
jeah 7-9k crit dmg every 4sec is awsome if they heal themselfes with rally for 15k every 6 sec + evtl. vigor or other hot abilities.
Without nirn I've been hit with for 10k+ on curse. Yes someone can heal through a few casual curses, but in a sustained fight it's not that simple. Not to mention that a Sorc I'm fighting is likely going to be protecting himself with mines that I'll have to eat. Otherwise i can heal tank constant curse/detonation combos, with the light attack/shock stream.
People in nirn have a much easier time, but what i described above is actually really difficult for people not abusing nirn to combat.cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »The_Drexill wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »i can do roll dodge for some decent dps about 12k a second with heavy attack, poison arrow, then roll. or to finish someone off with heavy attack, executioner, roll, heavy attack, executioner, roll. you can be dangerous if you are a pro at rolling and doing instant damage.
doing these moves you will dodge most things, i say most because ill be damned by how many damn charge moves hit you while rolling.
You cannot do 12k dps while roll dodging. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Right, where the hell are people getting these numbers. I don't get anywhere near that type of DPS in PvP, and i have no problem killing players. I sure as hell am not making 12K DPS in PvE while rolling around the map, so wth.
i can heavy attack for 8k, and poison injection for 4k, roll for 1 second, heavy attack, poison injection, roll for 1 second.
aka 12kdps. lets do simple math here 8k + 4k = 12k and this happens every second with a dodge in between so 12k dps.
That's not how DPS is measured or works in PvP dude. I have 18K HP, no one is pulling 12K DPS on me in a fight while rolling around. The only time you see DPS like that or higher is from a 2 shot ganker, and they aren't built to roll around.
Please go into VDSA and pull sustained 12k DPS while rolling around mobs.Edited by OdinForge on 5 June 2015 17:25The Age of Wrobel.0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »The_Drexill wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »i can do roll dodge for some decent dps about 12k a second with heavy attack, poison arrow, then roll. or to finish someone off with heavy attack, executioner, roll, heavy attack, executioner, roll. you can be dangerous if you are a pro at rolling and doing instant damage.
doing these moves you will dodge most things, i say most because ill be damned by how many damn charge moves hit you while rolling.
You cannot do 12k dps while roll dodging. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Right, where the hell are people getting these numbers. I don't get anywhere near that type of DPS in PvP, and i have no problem killing players. I sure as hell am not making 12K DPS in PvE while rolling around the map, so wth.
i can heavy attack for 8k, and poison injection for 4k, roll for 1 second, heavy attack, poison injection, roll for 1 second.
aka 12kdps. lets do simple math here 8k + 4k = 12k and this happens every second with a dodge in between so 12k dps.
LOL, what? Unless you mean you get 12K damage for ONE second in-between dodge rolls, I don't see any of this adding up to an honest 12K DPS. I can get "20K DPS" when I Crystal Frag + Heavy Attack a skeever, but that's not really 20K DPS now, is it? Also, how are you getting 8K heavy attacks in less than a second... is this some shady Dragonknight thing?
you can weave the heavy attack into the roll of the dodge like you can weave a heavy attack into an aimed/leathal shot etc.
he has choosen dmg values of the upper end but nonetheless possible.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »The_Drexill wrote: »cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »i can do roll dodge for some decent dps about 12k a second with heavy attack, poison arrow, then roll. or to finish someone off with heavy attack, executioner, roll, heavy attack, executioner, roll. you can be dangerous if you are a pro at rolling and doing instant damage.
doing these moves you will dodge most things, i say most because ill be damned by how many damn charge moves hit you while rolling.
You cannot do 12k dps while roll dodging. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Right, where the hell are people getting these numbers. I don't get anywhere near that type of DPS in PvP, and i have no problem killing players. I sure as hell am not making 12K DPS in PvE while rolling around the map, so wth.
i can heavy attack for 8k, and poison injection for 4k, roll for 1 second, heavy attack, poison injection, roll for 1 second.
aka 12kdps. lets do simple math here 8k + 4k = 12k and this happens every second with a dodge in between so 12k dps.
LOL, what? Unless you mean you get 12K damage for ONE second in-between dodge rolls, I don't see any of this adding up to an honest 12K DPS. I can get "20K DPS" when I Crystal Frag + Heavy Attack a skeever, but that's not really 20K DPS now, is it? Also, how are you getting 8K heavy attacks in less than a second... is this some shady Dragonknight thing?
You obviously don't know that you can animation cancel with dodge roll then.Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭it is possible to hit 8k heavy. crit heavy attack can be higher w/o a full charge too. add in champ points to bow and what not to. that said 12kdps??? u know that is damage per second right. a dodgeroll followed by an even partially pulled heavy attack takes longer than one sec. no matter how you look at that both animationas are to long. that said, if you are using dps by saying it takes one sec to hit for 12k i do not doubt you. you can get off a heavy attack and poisonattack in that time hands down. however, when you add in a dodgeroll animation you at best get that amount of damage every 2 sec. which is giving you 6k dps in actuality. which probably seems more like what you are talking about.1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »it is possible to hit 8k heavy. crit heavy attack can be higher w/o a full charge too. add in champ points to bow and what not to. that said 12kdps??? u know that is damage per second right. a dodgeroll followed by an even partially pulled heavy attack takes longer than one sec. no matter how you look at that both animationas are to long. that said, if you are using dps by saying it takes one sec to hit for 12k i do not doubt you. you can get off a heavy attack and poisonattack in that time hands down. however, when you add in a dodgeroll animation you at best get that amount of damage every 2 sec. which is giving you 6k dps in actuality. which probably seems more like what you are talking about.
Thank you, 12K DPS would literally kill people in two seconds. Realistically using various logs i can at best pull 5 or 6K depending on what type of potato I'm fighting. But typically it comes down to around even 2k or less and i still kill people fast regardless.
The Age of Wrobel.1 -
The_Drexill✭✭✭✭I'm pretty decent at this game friends, perma dodgers dont do 12k dps.
Brandizzle - NB
Drexill The Unbreakable - Sorc
For teh covenant.1 -
PeggymoeXD✭✭✭✭People lovvvvvveeeeeee to whine about what they can't kill. As a stam DK, I rely on dodge trolling as my form of mobility. Sorcs can bolt, and nb's can cloak. What's the big deal if I roll around like an idiot for a little while. And chances are, if someone can infinitely dodge-roll, they're not doing a whole lot to damage you. When you turn around instead of chase them, they'll get mad you stopped chasing and come back to fight, or they'll run away because they weren't worth killing in the first place.Kitty DK
Vanguärd
Învictus
Sun's Death
EPHS
- Peggy Moe - Look Mom No Emp Buff - Chalman - Linda the Zookeeper -2 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PeggymoeXD wrote: »People lovvvvvveeeeeee to whine about what they can't kill. As a stam DK, I rely on dodge trolling as my form of mobility. Sorcs can bolt, and nb's can cloak. What's the big deal if I roll around like an idiot for a little while. And chances are, if someone can infinitely dodge-roll, they're not doing a whole lot to damage you. When you turn around instead of chase them, they'll get mad you stopped chasing and come back to fight, or they'll run away because they weren't worth killing in the first place.
Lmao, so much this.
I give other dodgers the same mindset i give Sorc that shield up and bolttroll away forever. Just walk away and forget about them. The only difference being that when a dodger wants to seriously fight you, it's a way easier fight.
Once you learn how to target them through dodge efficiently, it's damn near childs play. People be mad, because the free stam kills they've been used to getting for damn near a year finally can stand for themselves.The Age of Wrobel.3 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭Germtrocity wrote: »Out of the three tactics (perma-shielder, perma-blocker, and perma-dodger) that you have listed, the perma dodging is by far the most powerful.
Let us take these three for a moment and analyze what perma-shielding and perma-blocking have that is different from perma-dodging : they are actually taking damage, and there is only so much damage they can take.
Perma-dodge roll builds are on a level of their own because they don't mitigate damage, they ignore (most) damage entirely for the duration of the dodge roll.
This sets them completely aside from all other forms of damage mitigation, as well as giving them an added bonus over other forms of mitigation.
Dodge rollers are able to weave in skills and light/heavy attacks in between dodge rolling while still ignoring damage.
Sorcerers have to recast shields, taking away from their damage. Tanks have to hold block, taking away from their mobility and damage.
Roll dodge has set bonuses that increase offensive power while the wearer is ignoring damage, and roll dodging gives increased mobility over blockers and shielders.
Perma-blockers and perma-shielders can only take so much damage before they go down and their defenses are not able to best their opponents offenses. Roll dodging can mitigate a theoretical infinite amount of damage due to the fact that it is evading and not absorbing damage.
Roll dodge as a form of damage mitigation is on a playing field of its own, it is ridiculous how powerful it is, and really needs to be toned down because of the ridiculous amount of survivability it grants.
Perma dodgers can do little else but roll.
Much like the generic ward and bolt crowd you need to spec for damage output too.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO41 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
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This is why...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Synozeer✭✭✭✭✭Pro perma-dodge roller.
https://youtu.be/qpTzJ_1oN4Y
As you can see, not enough time between rolls to do that much damage.
Edited by Synozeer on 9 June 2015 05:04Watch my PvP Videos on YouTube
Azoi - Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant - NA Server - 1st DC NA Grand Overlord
Hzarn - Templar - Daggerfall Covenant - NA Server - Grand Overlord
...and many more.0 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭There are plenty of ways to counter dodge rolling and even if there weren't, the DPS of rollers is very very low.. but there are NO counters of any kind against shield stackers.. even if you finally start hitting their actual health bar, they get hit once and they pop Healing Ward on top of Hardened Ward, and they're healed as well as protected for 25K points, while doing full DPS at the same time.
The Sorcerer class defense and offense both is just insane. I don't mind the offense, they should do a lot of damage, but not be immortal, with 25K shields at the drop of a hat, at the same time.
There is absolutely no way to claim shield stacking is even remotely equal to dodge rolling, it is so much more powerful.
I don't think any Sorcerer skill should be downgraded, but I do suggest removing the ability to stack more than one damage shield.Edited by Zsymon on 9 June 2015 05:351 -
diskiukas✭✭✭When I play my NB , my dark cloak rarely works and dodge is the only way for me to escape. Besides ,I am being killed while in dodge all the time, not sure why all complaining.Edited by diskiukas on 9 June 2015 14:400
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OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When I play my NB , my dark cloak rarely works and dodge is the only way for me to escape. Besides ,I am being killed while in dodge all the time, not sure why all complaining.
Because potato players see FoTM NB hordes dodging and sprinting with bow, while abusing mechanics like nirn and speed stacking. And just assume every stamina player is abusing the game like that, so nerf our only legitimate defense instead of understanding the real issues. Same BS they complain about with fear, cannot accept that they're simply being outplayed. 9/10 stamina players are rocking 2H/Bow and running around like sonic in his glory days, and no one finds that sketchy in the least bit. They just fixate on dodge, as if it alone is some magical saving grace in this game.
And apparently people can get 12K DPS while rolling around the mud (sarcasm).Edited by OdinForge on 9 June 2015 15:42The Age of Wrobel.0 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭It is easily avoidable damage, that's why you don't notice how hard it's hitti
This is why...
lol i was laughing when i saw this on the news today, and your post made it even funnier lol.Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »
dude he was almost sniped by lethal arrow there
Gotta be careful with all those Redguards around
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0