New Dragonknight, need levelling build advice and magicka vs stamina thoughts (still do not get it)

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

I'd like to have a PVE Dragonknight aimed at primarily tanking with a bit of self sufficiency/heal as well as a bit of fire damage output. Most of that would be class abilities and then sword and shield.

I see lots of great and well thought out builds for all classes (both PVE and PVP), however they seem to always be focused (or working under the assumption) that you are veteran rank/end game.

It would handy to read a levelling build that is broken down by common level gaps, to compensate for the rank requirement of abilities.In this case for my, it would be for a Dragonknight. Obviously you pick up the first three available class skills, though from there, it feels like a mystery - primarily because of magicka vs stamina.

Stamina builds are meant to be strong at the moment, and they may be in terms of raw numbers. My concern is that all class skills are magicka based and only a small amount of morphs change the ability to use and scale off stamina.

All the builds I find swear by 2H and Dual Wield. None of which really discuss the divide between magicka use from class abilities and stamina use from weapon abilities.

The advisement now is to not build hybrid characters, but if you want to regularly use class (magicka) and melee/bow weapon (stamina), then surely you have to pay some respect to a magicka : stamina ratio.

And with Stamina in particular, it's aggravating to be running places (a horse doesn't fit every where), and be low on Stamina when stepping into a fight. Magicka users on the other hand, never have this problem.

So just trying to get my head around where ZoS is trying to take the game, and how I can set the foundation for my DK to meet my play style.

Thanks

Bodycounter · April 2015

It's german, but the skills should be obvious. I started with a twohander and took sword and board at level 15.

http://www.eso-skillwerkstatt.de/skillplaner/#f3,r4,c1,3:1,22:1,25:1,28:1,45:2,46:2,94:3,95:2,96:2,347:1,368:1,370:1,373:1,377:1,379:1,387:1,391:1,392:1,397:1,410:1;370:368:373:377:379:410;347:25:28:397:391:3;5;0,7,7;0,7,0;;0,0,0

I hope, that helps a bit. Im new to the game, too, but that's how i skilled my dragonknight.

Karode · April 2015

Hi, I'm by no means an expert so this is far from optimal but thought I'd share what I have.

Here

I usually start off with 1h/s, Run in with Structured Entropy & switch to Destro. Engulfing Flames>Eruption>Spam Fire Ring a couple times. Switch back to 1h/s & block, reapply DoTs, Heal, then spam Molten Whip. It might not be the greatest but it works for me lol.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

I could be wrong, but I don't think that Burning Breath and Pierce Armor stack.

Cuyler · April 2015

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I'd like to have a PVE Dragonknight aimed at primarily tanking with a bit of self sufficiency/heal as well as a bit of fire damage output. Most of that would be class abilities and then sword and shield.

Seems like you want it all, it's a little tough to do in this game...focused builds tend to be more "self-sufficient".

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I see lots of great and well thought out builds for all classes (both PVE and PVP), however they seem to always be focused (or working under the assumption) that you are veteran rank/end game.

It would handy to read a levelling build that is broken down by common level gaps, to compensate for the rank requirement of abilities.In this case for my, it would be for a Dragonknight. Obviously you pick up the first three available class skills, though from there, it feels like a mystery - primarily because of magicka vs stamina.

You don't see a lot of leveling builds because when leveling your using skills you wouldn't normally use, either to test or simply level a skill tree (for example light, med and heavy armor).

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamina builds are meant to be strong at the moment, and they may be in terms of raw numbers. My concern is that all class skills are magicka based and only a small amount of morphs change the ability to use and scale off stamina.

All the builds I find swear by 2H and Dual Wield. None of which really discuss the divide between magicka use from class abilities and stamina use from weapon abilities.

The advisement now is to not build hybrid characters, but if you want to regularly use class (magicka) and melee/bow weapon (stamina), then surely you have to pay some respect to a magicka : stamina ratio.

And with Stamina in particular, it's aggravating to be running places (a horse doesn't fit every where), and be low on Stamina when stepping into a fight. Magicka users on the other hand, never have this problem.

True, stamina builds are the FOTM and you're correct that stamina builds must also rely on their magicka pools as well for certain skills. Magicka builds don't need stamina at all really (within reason).

Generally this is only an issue while leveling and in Cyro (due to the constant travel). In endgame PvE like vet dungeons, trials and dsa not so much, because you really don't need to run anywhere. You do however get some instances where boss mechanics require you to dodge or block a lot. Personally I agree, I don't like the inconsistency of stamina management due to these factors.

I use all magicka builds, except for tanking.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

Thank you all.

It's a two part issue. Obviously needing to identify the right skills to use - however that's dependent upon the magicka vs stamina.

If I was to morph most of my class abilities where possible, what kind of magicka <> health <> stamina points ratio should I be looking at?

Cuyler · April 2015

Your final attribute distribution is a direct function of your build at v14. What I mean by this is that once you fully developed you gear, what skills you'll be using, applied your buffs and eaten your food then you begin putting attributes into HP until your ~20k+ HP. Then the rest goes into stam and/or mag depending on how "hybridish" your build is.

When leveling it's most likely that you don't have 20k HP (you may not need it) but it doesn't hurt to go all into HP and use just your armor/skills/weapons/food to buff your max stam/mag pools.

EDIT: Just remembered you said primarily tanking so your HP must be much higher...more like 29k+ at v14.

Cuyler · April 2015

Deleted.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Your final attribute distribution is a direct function of your build at v14. What I mean by this is that once you fully developed you gear, what skills you'll be using, applied your buffs and eaten your food then you begin putting attributes into HP until your ~20k+ HP. Then the rest goes into stam and/or mag depending on how "hybridish" your build is.

When leveling it's most likely that you don't have 20k HP (you may not need it) but it doesn't hurt to go all into HP and use just your armor/skills/weapons/food to buff your max stam/mag pools.

EDIT: Just remembered you said primarily tanking so your HP must be much higher...more like 29k+ at v14.

At the moment it's a mixture of duoing (some solo) for levelling with a Templar. I wonder if points in Stamina would be better for general adventuring.

Cuyler · April 2015

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Your final attribute distribution is a direct function of your build at v14. What I mean by this is that once you fully developed you gear, what skills you'll be using, applied your buffs and eaten your food then you begin putting attributes into HP until your ~20k+ HP. Then the rest goes into stam and/or mag depending on how "hybridish" your build is.

When leveling it's most likely that you don't have 20k HP (you may not need it) but it doesn't hurt to go all into HP and use just your armor/skills/weapons/food to buff your max stam/mag pools.

EDIT: Just remembered you said primarily tanking so your HP must be much higher...more like 29k+ at v14.

At the moment it's a mixture of duoing (some solo) for levelling with a Templar. I wonder if points in Stamina would be better for general adventuring.

I agree especially if you have a Templar with you for heals. When leveling you really just need to feel out if you think you have the HP for most engagements. There are only HP meta values for things like trials and dsa.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

Yes and would respec by then.

I think I'll play the attribute points by ear.
Now to decide on skills. I am trying to look at builds and work backwards from all the morped version they have. I want to go down 2h or DW but not sure where to start. I guess with ability one!

Cuyler · April 2015

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes and would respec by then.

I think I'll play the attribute points by ear.
Now to decide on skills. I am trying to look at builds and work backwards from all the morped version they have. I want to go down 2h or DW but not sure where to start. I guess with ability one!

Is it your intention to tank or be dps? I assumed you'd be tanking with a sword and board. Either way all three of those skill lines are good.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

I'd like sword and board for moments when it's needed, such as boss fights. However most of the time it would be me doing most of the damage output and also trying to be the main target for the mobs.

The Templar is almost purely healing focused. We're still getting to grips with threat mechanics and how much I have to do to keep the mobs on me.

At the moment I am running heavy armor with two hand axe, spiked armor, stonefist, molten weapons, cleave and Dragon Leap (may consider getting the Standard as well.

One thing you could clarify for me is how my ability damage is scaling. Am I right in that the DK skills strengths are from my magicka rating and weapon skills from stamina? I noticed I am using at least two or three class skills per fights and occasionally throw in the 2h (or DW) attack.
Spiked armor>molten weapons>cleave>heavy white attacks - or I sometimes don't even bother to cleave.

I guess what I am saying is that I haven't been sold on any of the first few weapon abilities, I prefer the class ones. However when I do spam cleave (or DW flurry), I get about four off before I am out of Stamina.

It makes me think I need to put points into Stamina but my health has been a bit suspect as well.

Any further suggestions on a x:x:x ratio for magicka/health/stamina. I can make enchantments for my gear, to offset what I don't get from attributes.

jerzey_gamer · April 2015

I know that personally, it's been pretty much a breeze leveling my DK - try something like this:

I put ALL of my points into stamina, but you can put some into health if you feel you're having some sustainability issues. Another thing to keep in mind is that this game highly encourages experimentation. Try swapping out random skills and see what works for you - you'll have a lot more fun this way - and between that, and looking at other people's build, I was able to come up with the setup I have now. I went with full heavy for the extra armor, but a lot of other people also recommend going with medium armor for more stamina regen - again, whatever works better for you.

SKILL BAR #1 (2H w/ Flame Enchant)
1: Critical Charge (Rush)
2: Searing Strike (Unstable Flame)
3: Momentum (Forward Momentum)
4: Uppercut (Wrecking Blow)
5: Reverse Slash (Wrecking Blow)

Throw on Momentum (and keep up), rush in with Crit Charge, throw on Searing Strike, Uppercut, then light/heavy attack until you can spam Reverse Slash - then onto the next mob. I've had no issue taking on the 3-mob groupings in dungeons with this build. Really only gets tricky once you're dealing with more than 3, but still possible. Just make sure you stay out of the red and interrupt/block/dodge when you can. As for your second weapon, you can experiment with any weapon really, although I'd recommend throwing Spiked Armor and Dragon Blood on your second skill bar for more survivability. Hope this helps a bit. Like I said, I still run with this build now and it works quite well for me (along with my AOE setup).

SKILL BAR #2 (2H w/ Flame)
1: (Cinder Storm) Ash Cloud
2: (Burning Breath) Engulfing Flames
3: (Cleave) Brawler
4: Spiked Armor (Hardened Armor)
5: Dragon Blood (Green Dragon Blood)

Good luck, EXPERIMENT, and have fun!

Cuyler · April 2015

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

One thing you could clarify for me is how my ability damage is scaling. Am I right in that the DK skills strengths are from my magicka rating and weapon skills from stamina?

So yea....if it's a skill that uses stamina it scales from weapon damage/max stam. If the skill uses magicka it scales from spell damage/max magicka. This fundamental mechanic is why hybrid builds aren't as popular as they were in v1.5. Because if your stamina mostly your magicka skills will hit like a wet paper bag.

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I noticed I am using at least two or three class skills per fights and occasionally throw in the 2h (or DW) attack.
Spiked armor>molten weapons>cleave>heavy white attacks - or I sometimes don't even bother to cleave.

I guess what I am saying is that I haven't been sold on any of the first few weapon abilities, I prefer the class ones.

So DK are the kings of DOTs. DOTs DOTs and even more DOTs. Generally the main focus is on as much fire damage as you can do. This is most easily done via destruction staff due to elemental nature, but that would be for a magicka build (what I'm using).

Anyways, usually Ash cloud, Fiery Breath, Lava whip, Searing Strike, Inferno and chains are the go to for the DOTs. They have either a mag or stam morph (I forget the names). There's also talons for leveling but not used as much in single target boss fights.

For mitigation green dragon blood and obsidian shield are really all you need. Spiked armor is good too but not necessary.

Molten armaments morph specifically is the DK execute when targets are <20%. It says heavy attacks, but can be "not fully charged heavy attacks" aka medium attacks to work.

Finally, Standard of might is arguably one of the best skills in the game. It will boost your damage tremendously.

In terms of the weapon skills, yea every weapon line is boring at the beginning. The best weapon skills are usually towards the middle to end of the tree.

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

However when I do spam cleave (or DW flurry), I get about four off before I am out of Stamina. It makes me think I need to put points into Stamina but my health has been a bit suspect as well. Any further suggestions on a x:x:x ratio for magicka/health/stamina. I can make enchantments for my gear, to offset what I don't get from attributes.

Again when leveling I suggest a 0/62/0 ratio with all stam enchants on your armor and weapon damage on your jewelry.

That changes when you get v14 or if you decide to go to a magicka build.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

jerzey_gamer wrote: »

I know that personally, it's been pretty much a breeze leveling my DK - try something like this:

I put ALL of my points into stamina, but you can put some into health if you feel you're having some sustainability issues. Another thing to keep in mind is that this game highly encourages experimentation. Try swapping out random skills and see what works for you - you'll have a lot more fun this way - and between that, and looking at other people's build, I was able to come up with the setup I have now. I went with full heavy for the extra armor, but a lot of other people also recommend going with medium armor for more stamina regen - again, whatever works better for you.

SKILL BAR #1 (2H w/ Flame Enchant)
1: Critical Charge (Rush)
2: Searing Strike (Unstable Flame)
3: Momentum (Forward Momentum)
4: Uppercut (Wrecking Blow)
5: Reverse Slash (Wrecking Blow)

Throw on Momentum (and keep up), rush in with Crit Charge, throw on Searing Strike, Uppercut, then light/heavy attack until you can spam Reverse Slash - then onto the next mob. I've had no issue taking on the 3-mob groupings in dungeons with this build. Really only gets tricky once you're dealing with more than 3, but still possible. Just make sure you stay out of the red and interrupt/block/dodge when you can. As for your second weapon, you can experiment with any weapon really, although I'd recommend throwing Spiked Armor and Dragon Blood on your second skill bar for more survivability. Hope this helps a bit. Like I said, I still run with this build now and it works quite well for me (along with my AOE setup).

SKILL BAR #2 (2H w/ Flame)
1: (Cinder Storm) Ash Cloud
2: (Burning Breath) Engulfing Flames
3: (Cleave) Brawler
4: Spiked Armor (Hardened Armor)
5: Dragon Blood (Green Dragon Blood)

Good luck, EXPERIMENT, and have fun!

Thanks, really appreciate the suggestions. The one thing I would point out is you are listing abilities that are beyond reach for quite a while yet. So maybe it's viable when they are all working together, but that's not effective for me at the moment.

Agreed about Stamina on Medium armor, then maybe my attribute points go into health:magicka at 4:1

jerzey_gamer · April 2015

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks, really appreciate the suggestions. The one thing I would point out is you are listing abilities that are beyond reach for quite a while yet. So maybe it's viable when they are all working together, but that's not effective for me at the moment.

Agreed about Stamina on Medium armor, then maybe my attribute points go into health:magicka at 4:1

My boyfriend is level 15 and has access to all these skills... Just throwin that out there. And I just noticed now that you were originally looking for more of a tank/sword and board build, so sorry for being a little off topic there. But honestly, you'll blow through everything running with that build so I'd still recommend it regardless. You'll level up to Reverse Slash (last skill in that tree) fairly quickly though.

Victus · April 2015

I have a Stamina DK I'm levelling up right now, and also created a Dunmer Magicka DK that is still lvl 3, to try that out as well.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

Ok jerzey_gamer. I am already level 11 and only focused on 2h a few levels back. I will try your suggestion though.

Do you concur with Cuyler's thoughts on attribute points to all health, while levelling up? If so, I'd go medium armor with stamina passives? And get my stamina/magicka mixed from armor and enchantments?

I would have thought if my main damage output/skills were from weapons, then I'd need Stamina as my main attribute, with health and magicka on my equipment instead.

Cuyler wrote: »

So DK are the kings of DOTs. DOTs DOTs and even more DOTs. Generally the main focus is on as much fire damage as you can do. This is most easily done via destruction staff due to elemental nature, but that would be for a magicka build (what I'm using).

Anyways, usually Ash cloud, Fiery Breath, Lava whip, Searing Strike, Inferno and chains are the go to for the DOTs. They have either a mag or stam morph (I forget the names). There's also talons for leveling but not used as much in single target boss fights.

For mitigation green dragon blood and obsidian shield are really all you need. Spiked armor is good too but not necessary.

Molten armaments morph specifically is the DK execute when targets are <20%. It says heavy attacks, but can be "not fully charged heavy attacks" aka medium attacks to work.

Finally, Standard of might is arguably one of the best skills in the game. It will boost your damage tremendously.

In terms of the weapon skills, yea every weapon line is boring at the beginning. The best weapon skills are usually towards the middle to end of the tree.

And that's the problem though as I referred to earlier. I have to wade through the ranks to get to the abilities that make the bar 1/bar 2 a complete package. Meanwhile, the other issue is that levelling mobs tend not to require any long term rotations, so DoTs are often wasted - this was something I have always been frustrated with in ESO. It's only when you get to proper named mobs, do you require sustainable damage over time.

Cuyler wrote: »

Again when leveling I suggest a 0/62/0 ratio with all stam enchants on your armor and weapon damage on your jewelry.

That changes when you get v14 or if you decide to go to a magicka build.

Ok

What about using Carve (morph of Cleave). Does it work as it reads literally - giving additional ultimate every 1.5 seconds? Any further explanation?

And thoughts on passives to go with the builds suggested so far?

jerzey_gamer · April 2015

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok jerzey_gamer. I am already level 11 and only focused on 2h a few levels back. I will try your suggestion though.

Do you concur with Cuyler's thoughts on attribute points to all health, while levelling up? If so, I'd go medium armor with stamina passives? And get my stamina/magicka mixed from armor and enchantments?

I would have thought if my main damage output/skills were from weapons, then I'd need Stamina as my main attribute, with health and magicka on my equipment instead.

What about using Carve (morph of Cleave). Does it work as it reads literally - giving additional ultimate every 1.5 seconds? Any further explanation?

And thoughts on passives to go with the builds suggested so far?

Not necessarily unless you're having issues with health.. But honestly, I never really had any issues with dying much while leveling up, so I'd personally just put all the points in stamina and have the extra damage. I don't really have much experience with the whole hybridization as far as attribute points go so I don't want to say too much on the subject. All I can say is that I haven't had any major issues with health or magicka as of yet. If anything maybe I'd put like a few points in magicka but it's really not entirely necessary. My gear up until now has also been stamina-based (again because I haven't really had any issues with Health), but you can absolutely go the Health route for gear being that you wouldn't be putting any points into. For me personally, the extra armor from wearing the heavy has been enough to keep me up. I have no problem clearing dungeons of mobs a level or 2 higher than me. Especially with the AOE skill bar setup I have, I just throw down Ash Cloud (which slows them down as they run at me and put the DOT on them), then hit them with the other Engulfing Flames DOT, then just Brawler the *** outta them (which gives you extra shield protection for every enemy hit) and then just Green Dragon Blood if you need to. I have basically no issue mowing down 5-6 mobs at a time with that technique. So I think it's safe to say between that and the single-target power of the first skill bar, you'll have pretty much have no problem.

And yes, Carve does actually give you the additional Ultimate, but I personally never even really use my Ultimate THAT much just because between all the support of my second skill bar setup, I almost never need to use it. And the extra armor you get from Brawler really does make that much of a difference. Definitely noticeable 100% - I'd pretty much die without it. Only in emergencies do I actually bust out the Ultimate. Which reminds me - I forgot to include which Ultimate I was using. For the first skill bar, I'm using Standard of Might and then Magma Armor for the second skill bar. Again, my first skill bar focusing more on single-target heavy DPS and my second one focusing more on AOE and self-protection. Hope this helped.. DKs are a *** of fun!

Sorry for the late reply!