How to nerf everyone and make everyone (un)happy

kgold0 · April 2015

Edit: I like Draehl's idea much better than mine so I will include his suggestion up here:

I've said previously... before touching any class specific skills simply alter the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit buff in two ways:
Increase the max hp provided by this buff from 5k to something like 15k.Increase the healing received debuff to 30% and have it also affect shields.

My original post:

In pvp, double or triple everybody's hitpoints. This lengthens battles, nerfs two-hit gank wonders, devalues magic shields, and dodge rollers and shield blockers will eventually run out of stamina.

Also if a horse has no stamina, horse knock down will require two hits instead of one.

Also, if you are rooted, doing a dodge move breaks you out of it but you don't actually roll out of the way of attacks. You'll have to dodge again.

Add a magic debuff in the game that reduces the effectiveness of buffs like shields. Because there are already heal reduction and stealth revelers in the game.

Permashield blockers start to very slowly drain more and more stamina after 10 seconds. Weaving an ability or light attack will not reset this. Not blocking for 3 seconds will reset it.

Move the sorcerer shield to light armor and the light armor shield to sorcerer.

Give night blades a consistent decent heal since they can't auto gank anymore.

Nerf vigor and make it more readily available.

Improve dot spells.

kgold0 · April 2015

*revealers

Sylveria_Relden · April 2015

I've got a better suggestion... get rid of all the classes and voila! Instant balance. No? Not liking that idea? The bigger picture here is in a competitive world you will always have conflict. Plain and simple. As long as there "has to be a winner" there "has to be a loser".

People will argue their own standpoints until they're blue in the face- and the sad fact of the matter we all lose, at some point or another.

Oh and for those who aren't in the know- "world peace" is also an illusion, as long as two people think or feel differently from each other, or covet what someone else has- there will always be conflict. (so much for rainbows and unicorns, eh?)

kgold0 · April 2015

I disagree! I declare war on you!

Draehl · April 2015

I've said previously... before touching any class specific skills simply alter the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit buff in two ways:

Increase the max hp provided by this buff from 5k to something like 15k.
Increase the healing received debuff to 30% and have it also affect shields.

Change nothing else and see how this works. Then taking into context the new meta start slightly adjusting certain skills that may be too weak/too strong. As you mentioned: DoTs definitely do need to be stronger to present more viable sustained damage/pressure playstyle. There probably would still be some direct damage skills that are still too strong, but I would hit them with a cost increase rather than a damage nerf. Burst builds still need to exist and be strong at their role, but they should struggle with resource management in order to have a meaningful weakness. Other games balance burst with cooldowns- ESO doesn't have these so the clear replacement is resource efficiency.

kgold0 · April 2015

I agree with you. My first thought was an increase in hitpoints. Then I got carried away.

Soris · April 2015

Draehl wrote: »

I've said previously... before touching any class specific skills simply alter the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit buff in two ways:
Increase the max hp provided by this buff from 5k to something like 15k.

Increase the healing received debuff to 30% and have it also affect shields.

1 - Y E S !!!
2 - Maybe

glak · April 2015

Draehl wrote: »

I've said previously... before touching any class specific skills simply alter the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit buff in two ways:
Increase the max hp provided by this buff from 5k to something like 15k.

Increase the healing received debuff to 30% and have it also affect shields.

1 - Y E S !!!
2 - Yes iff that only affects DPS-scaling shields.

kgold0 · April 2015

I like Draehl's idea a lot so will quote it in the op.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · April 2015

I will agree with the above decision.

Before ZoS goes and starts nerfing abilities and classes they need to sort out the Cyrodiil Buff.

Remove any Cydoriil Buff damage bonus, like the spell penetration, double the hitpoints bonus from 5K to 10K.
Then remove shield stacking to ONE (1) per shield active per time. The damage intake going to be lowered by just removing the penetration buffs, so 1 shield is more than enough to keep people safe if needed.

These three simple changes alone, going to mitigate some of the issues where this game has end up in fragfest.

In beta where battles lasted for long time, the Spell penetration didn't existed. There, someone who had some good basic skill, was able to dodge and kill 2-3 opponents without shield stacking etc, barely any late abilities open (eg Blazing shield was still long way to go) and wasn't a DK.
Now you need to be a DK and stack some ridiculous amount of protection.

Fourth change, on the Non-Vet campaign tone down the damage done by the siege gear. You cannot have level 27 players getting hit for 20K damage from a fire pot. (and doubt any, but few, run with pvp minded set gear at non-vet campaign).

Lava_Croft · April 2015

More hitpoints means longer fights which means more lag.

Soulac · April 2015

50k health player.. Pls no.

Ezareth · April 2015

glak wrote: »

2 - Yes iff that only affects DPS-scaling shields.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

glak wrote: »

2 - Yes iff that only affects DPS-scaling shields.

Sorc nerf thread astro turfers are getting more clever to try to circumvent the mods closing their duplicate spam threads.

Enter the long PvP fix suggestion list with a sneaky sorc nerf hidden in the middle.

In pvp, double or triple everybody's hitpoints. This lengthens battles, nerfs two-hit gank wonders, devalues magic shields, and dodge rollers and shield blockers will eventually run out of stamina. Generic Suggestion that would buff the ever-living hell out of one magica shield in particular

Also if a horse has no stamina, horse knock down will require two hits instead of one. Generic suggestion - Someone needs to feed their horse or get anti-gank gear/skills

Also, if you are rooted, doing a dodge move breaks you out of it but you don't actually roll out of the way of attacks. You'll have to dodge again.So all roots become hard CC without immunity and cost 2x to get out of? I hope you like sitting in talons

Add a magic debuff in the game that reduces the effectiveness of buffs like shields. Because there are already heal reduction and stealth revelers in the game. Slightly more targeted Generic Suggestion against shields - offensive dispel skill is not a bad idea though

Permashield blockers start to very slowly drain more and more stamina after 10 seconds. Weaving an ability or light attack will not reset this. Not blocking for 3 seconds will reset it. Even more targeted Suggestion against shields

Move the sorcerer shield to light armor and the light armor shield to sorcerer. ...And there is it folks! The reason for this post!! Hidden in the middle.

Give night blades a consistent decent heal since they can't auto gank anymore. NB buff?? Fancy finding this here

Nerf vigor and make it more readily available. Erm whaaa?? Someone must strictly play a magica NB. Didn't you just ask for a good NB heal?

Improve dot spells. ok

Translation: Give everyone (mostly glass cannon NBs) tons of health. Give everyone (but mostly NBs) Hardened ward. Give everyone (actually only magicka NBs) a strong magicka based class heal. And nerf shields by giving templars a 30k shield.

Here is another example from "What sorcerer players really need"

Fixing buggy and trial-useless pets and their mechanics

Reducing or eliminating the prevalence of toggle skills

Reducing the unparalleled spike damage potential of PvP Sorcs. <--- There it is!!!!

Increasing the low sustained dps of Sorcerers relative to other classes

Replacing useless or redundant magicka skills with better ones

Increasing synergy, which is poor as the class currently stands

Giving the class back it's utility, which was nerfed in PvE due largely to PvP complaints

Reducing reliance on non-class abilities, which are often considerably more superior

Replacing useless Sorcerer skill morphs with better magicka morphs

Hybridising useless Sorcerer magicka skills with stamina morphs

Making Sorcerer main-healing viable at all

Making Sorcerer tanking more viable

Making non-staff Sorcerers more viable

Removing cooldown on Surge random damage proc self-heal and replacing with more reliable mechanic

Anyone else want to play Spot the sorc nerf? There's a new thread every day by the same four people! But now it's hidden in a wall of generic pvp suggestions.

Chikenuget · April 2015

@Yolokin_Swagonborn Yeah I'm starting to get sick of it and I don't play sorc...

These changes are a bit drastic. Fixes primarily need to begin with reevaluating regen caps. Drawing out fights is not going to result in some sort of balance, just a light/heavy attack war /potion chugging war / healing war.

Neither of these results sound very fun at all imo. (Albeit the results are pure speculation)

kgold0 · April 2015

Well the point of increasing hitpoints is that no one likes to be one shotted. Magicka users are most vulnerable so that's why shield stacking is so important. And everyone complains about shield stacking. So to increase hitpoints without decreasing shield power makes shield less significant relatively without reducing its power directly at the same time giving the light magicka user more hitpoints so shields are less needed.

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

kgold0 wrote: »

Well the point of increasing hitpoints is that no one likes to be one shotted. Magicka users are most vulnerable so that's why shield stacking is so important. And everyone complains about shield stacking. So to increase hitpoints without decreasing shield power makes shield less significant relatively without reducing its power directly at the same time giving the light magicka user more hitpoints so shields are less needed.

yes you could do this but you are missing this key point. this hp will be added to tank characters and they are near unkillable right now for some , and you will make them even harder to kill in the process by raising hp of everyone.

Shields that scale off of HP will gain a significant buff from this as well.

Panda244 · April 2015

kgold0 wrote: »

If a horse has no stamina, horse knock down will require two hits instead of one. Yes.

Also, if you are rooted, doing a dodge move breaks you out of it but you don't actually roll out of the way of attacks. You'll have to dodge again. Lol no.

Add a magic debuff in the game that reduces the effectiveness of buffs like shields. Because there are already heal reduction and stealth revelers in the game. Yes.

Move the sorcerer shield to light armor and the light armor shield to sorcerer. Sorc shield is fine. Shieldstacking is the issue, not sorc shield.

Give night blades a consistent decent heal since they can't auto gank anymore. 100% this.

Nerf vigor and make it more readily available. It's suppose to be OP, tyvm.

For this specific nerf suggestion.

Permashield blockers start to very slowly drain more and more stamina after 10 seconds. Weaving an ability or light attack will not reset this. Not blocking for 3 seconds will reset it.

I have this to say.

It's already impossible to perma block in the game due to being able to block everything and block costing a crap ton of stamina, there's no need to nerf it AGAIN.

Derra · April 2015

Alone the fact that ppl think somebody with a solid build will run out of resources EVER... What game are you playin?

Draehl · April 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

kgold0 wrote: »

Well the point of increasing hitpoints is that no one likes to be one shotted. Magicka users are most vulnerable so that's why shield stacking is so important. And everyone complains about shield stacking. So to increase hitpoints without decreasing shield power makes shield less significant relatively without reducing its power directly at the same time giving the light magicka user more hitpoints so shields are less needed.

yes you could do this but you are missing this key point. this hp will be added to tank characters and they are near unkillable right now for some , and you will make them even harder to kill in the process by raising hp of everyone.

Shields that scale off of HP will gain a significant buff from this as well.

To be fair if tanks are nigh unkillable now, adding 5-10k more hp isn't going to change anything. It's a matter of multiple people keeping damage on them moreso than dropping them with burst. If an increase to max HP were combined with reducing heal/shield effectiveness the net result would be a modest nerf to both the super tanks and super burst- thus making builds in between the two more viable.

Then, if changes to blocking/dodging are needed (which they most certainly will be) then proceed from there with stamina drains for holding block > 2 seconds and increasing the cost of chaining dodges together.

Cody · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

glak wrote: »

2 - Yes iff that only affects DPS-scaling shields.

I just watched spiderman fight Wolverine:D