ZOS should stop bothering with AvA and focus on Structured PvP.
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Anilahation✭✭✭✭
the market is empty MMO wise, just another reason for ZOS to attempt to fill it's shoes.Edited by Anilahation on 8 April 2015 07:260 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »trimsic_ESO wrote: »Structured PVP in arenas is boring as hell in the long term. Many MMO offer this type of PVP, and they don't manage to keep their player base.
Large scale combats can be fun, provided that they are not resolved by siege weapons or by the lag.
ESO was designed for these large scale combats - ZOS has built their own graphics engine for that - and is one of the few MMO on the market that proposes such combats. It would be a pity not to finish the job and provide the players with something unique and fun.
Swtor GW2 and WoW have arenas and their playerbase is fine...
Yeah it's pretty silly that y'all counter argument is " I don't want other PvP options because I want people to be forced to do the single option."
WOW is not popular for its arenas, and no, the player base of GW2 and SWTOR is not fine. Both have been a huge desillusion.
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Anilahation✭✭✭✭Yeah, since "structured" pvp has worked out so well for every other mmo...
yes that's why MMO with structured PvP are doing better then MMO without it.kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Structured pvp in every game I have played is boring and nothing but a bunch of pre made teams, worse than what we have in ESO, but that's just my opinion, I like AVA to bad it is having such issues, with the megaserver, or the engine where ever their weak link may be.
full premades fight other full premades in something called ranked.
normals can only have half the total players premade.
10v10 only 5 on each team can be premade and etc.0 -
pecheckler wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »
Also did someone really complain the travel time in Cyrodiil takes to long? Maybe if you're level 10....It takes like 2 to 3 minutes at most between each keep...Which is fair...
In Cyrodiil you can die in a matter of 5 seconds in actual combat, then spend between 3 to 8 minutes returning to the battle. Much of other time is spent traveling too, for reasons other than returning to where you died, such as regrouping, etc. Then there is the standing on top of or below a giant wall mindlessly lobbing siege and arrows.
That isn't fun PvP. It is part of fun PvP, but feels tedious.
Then try this. Why dont you try... NOT TO DIE?
I play smart, I don't die alot. Hence, I am not playing a horse simulator.
Been in the top 20 the past few campaigns until I completed a 3 piece cyrodiil ward set. So now if i die, I ride back in a bullet horse.
I guess you know where I'am getting at here right?... L ..... 2...... you know?Siblings-in-Prison
Lore:At a time of chaos and turmoil, children from all across tamriel have been taken by an evil Argonian Thieves guild. They were raised in captivity, forced to learn their captors evil ways and endured the harsh environment of Black Marsh. The intentions of the evil guild is still unknown till this day.
Amisdt the events surrounding the formation of the Ebonheart Pact, a brave few has escaped their captors and ran off as far away as they can, eventually landing on the shores of khenarthi's roost.
Armed with the skills and the scars they have endured during their captivity, these brothers and sisters in chains has vowed revenge on their Argonian captors and their allies.
They kept the names branded to them by the evil reptiles as a reminder of all the pain and torment they have suffered, and have joined the Aldmeri Dominion as a means to an end... Paint Tamriel with Argonian blood.
[*] Sliced-in-Prison | Bosmer | Suction Blade
[*] Hunk-in-Prison | Breton | Hunky Blade
[*] Muse-in-Prison | Altmer | Healing Babe
[*] Hot-in-Prison | Breton | HotBod Killer1 -
Zargorius✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »
Can you present any hard data to back up this assumption?Edited by Zargorius on 8 April 2015 08:43Honor is a dead man's code.0 -
Molsondry✭✭✭I have read half of the comment and I stoped right there.
Most of you agaisnt structured pvp obviously never got seriously into it and are probly just casual .
Your talking about premade stomping other premade. (Wich happens all the time in cyro anyway)
Structed pvp isnt the random WoW battleground. where you get stomp by 5 men full gear premade while half you team just hit max level ..... no its not that.
Structured PvP is RANKED pvp where full preset team fight another team that is on the same skill level with matchmaking (most of the time) .
Cyrodil is great for casual and all but there is nothing really competitive there .. its all random the map is too huge and of course there are SO MUCH pve (balista ..npc.. etc)
I really think eso NEED a structured pvp instance like a capture de flag in a 10 v 10 match or even 20 v 20 in a ranked system. There is so much potential there. Also this is NOTHING like developping the AvA system. You can get a really small dev team for that and its done . The hardest part will be a good matchmaking system but there tons of exemple around. Developping small map and doing instanced battleground is nothing huge to develop and it would bring a whole new face to the eso pvp.
I dont think 5v5 3v3 or 2v2 death match , with the state of the current game would be a good Idea in the other hand. It would just be to hard to balance for a game like that where you can get ALOT of different skills /build . Wow has hard time balancing there arena I just cant imagine trying to balance eso for arena deathmatch.Edited by Molsondry on 8 April 2015 09:23v9 Sorcerer1 -
Messy1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love AvA . . . . don't do bring bland structured PvP . . . just improve the AvA experience!!0 -
Molsondry✭✭✭Also had to add ...
10 v 10 instanced ranked CtF in a good matchmaking system are AWESOME
( ok I can admit it... I have played up to 2.3k rating wow rated battlegrounds)v9 Sorcerer0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.
As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.
The problem with this is you want death to be meaningless. IF you are defending a keep and i kill you and you cant get rezzed and have to relasease but can come back in 30seconds....then killing you was pointless and that was also the problem with F camps. The fact that now I can kill you and if you release you are out of the battle and is what actually makes the system work and has purpose. This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions, this system also makes map placement important as gives tactics to map position and travel time. This system also makes player rezzes very important. battle are actually decided by player skills and not just who can zerg back faster.
Too bad you never played DAOC, if you had you wouldn't be complaining. when you had to release, it was usually a 20 minute run back out to the other side of the map. 10 minutes if you were with a speed class.
"This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions..."
The problem is that the smartest thing to do is find the nearest Wayshrine and port out of Cyrodiil. I have no desire to waste hours of my day in a horse simulator, which is exactly what Cyrodiil has become, especially after they removed forward camps. So many problems with ESO PvP could be fixed if you could simply resurrect yourself on the spot like you can everywhere else in Tamriel. The current system is massively biased against players who are not in organized groups, and everything ZoS does seems to make it worse.
This is so much LOL-
A Horse simulator? Let's see here. Yes getting on your mount is the fastest way to get around, but you should probably get off and hoof it from time to time if you want to stay alive.
"hours of your day?" Really? You spend "hours" of your day with nothing better to do then ride your horse back and forth between the nearest battle and your spawn point? Considering it only takes a couple minutes to get from one keep to the next I have to wonder what you do with all that time. Maybe you die alot? I don't know, you tell me? Or is it that you just don't do anything until you see a keep burst or crossed swords on the map? I'm leaning towards gross over-exaggeration and hyperbole.
"So many problems with ESO PvP could be fixed if you could simply resurrect yourself on the spot like you can everywhere else in Tamriel."
I have news for you. You CAN resurrect yourself like you can everywhere else in Tamriel. If you die from a MoB or NPC you can use your own soul shard to resurrect yourself. It is only when you die by another players hand you can not. Now think this through. If you get killed you're suggesting you can resurrect yourself. You realize your dead body will just be camped until you do right? No- this is a terrible suggestion.
"The current system is massively biased against players who are not in organized groups..."
Well, this is an MMO. BUT, I as someone that spends most of my time in PvP and most of that time solo I can attest it's not too terribly difficult to get resurrected by other players. And if I die off the beaten track it's nothing but a thing to res at the nearest keep and Rapid Maneuver my way way back to the action. Honestly there seems to be some L2P issues here.
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AH93✭✭✭ESO doesn't need "structured" pvp even if it would be a welcomed addition. It needs more meaningful objectives spread out around the map. More towns and resources to hold away from the keeps that effect the overall conflict. Something that would give smaller groups something to fight over besides a choke point and pathway from one keep to the next. ATM Cyrodiil, while fun, is nothing more than a glorified tower defense game. It really needs to have more depth than that. It's just so wrong ESO went that direction with the overall AvA concept.
I think this is spot on.
Smaller objectives would be very welcome. As well as opening the Imperial Arena when it is released, for some 2v2/3v3 PvP.
Dueling would be nice too.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Been there, done that. Several years of SWTOR's queues. Queue randomly, get paired with a premade, get farmed, zero fun. Queue with a premade, get paired with random scrubs, farm them at their spawnpoint, zero fun. These two scenarios were the majority of my PvP there.
No thank you. I prefer the freedom of Cyrodiil.1 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I completely agree.
The AvA can be awesome, but those moments are too few and far between now. You can either join the Zerg or spend hours looking for a decent small scale fight.
The combat itself is awesome, the most fun of any MMO in my opinion, but it isn't often able to shine because so many AvA features just get in the way of competitive fights.
What we really need is:
1. The justice system PvP
2. The option to duel allies in home territory
3. An arena with 4v4v4 like at the game shows. Modes would be king of the hill and straight death match.
AvA would still be there and I bet a lot of people would still play it. But when you just want to hop on for a few hours and have some fair fights, there needs to be those options.1 -
Romo✭✭✭✭No just no to any "structured" pvp.
The min/max pre-mades with their list of UI mod requirements and team-speak or its equivalent are salivating at the mouth for such a set-up, hoping for all the PUG/newbie kills to add to their leader-board scores, which will be required to be posted to everyones' screen at log-in, so they can polish their epeens more...0 -
Valymer✭✭✭✭✭No just no to any "structured" pvp.
The min/max pre-mades with their list of UI mod requirements and team-speak or its equivalent are salivating at the mouth for such a set-up, hoping for all the PUG/newbie kills to add to their leader-board scores, which will be required to be posted to everyones' screen at log-in, so they can polish their epeens more...
You do realize that all games that have such systems implement rankings, right? So those uber pre-mades will only be going up against other uber pre-mades (in theory, but it works pretty well in practice usually).
In fact, the situation you describe is even more so with the current state of things, because there are no artificial checks in place to ensure somewhat balanced battles. Of course, if you are in one of those strong pre-mades then you probably don't have a problem with this.2 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭It's interesting that some of the comments about pvp in WoW date back to the pre-Wrath era. WoW now has rbgs which are rated battlegrounds. That's where pre-mades fight other pre-mades for rank, points, and access to better pvp gear. Pre-mades rarely bother with casual bgs anymore. The return for effort just isn't there. Sure there are noob guild groups that queue as a group for casual pug bgs and they do dominate pugs but sometimes they actually get rolled.
Arenas is not a major draw in WoW for casuals. My guess is that < 10% of the pop actually does arenas and half of that number do arenas competitively and not just for points to apply toward pvp gear. WoW probably still supports arenas probably because it doesn't cost much to maintain or develop for compared to battlegrounds or pve content. Don't get me wrong, those guys are skilled but arenas aren't very popular compared to bgs.
Where bgs are a plus for casuals is a sense of progression. You can see your results after every match. If you are doing well or poorly, you'll probably know pretty quickly and can work to improve if you're so inclined.
That said, would be it nice to have bgs in ESO? Sure but I don't expect that kind of instanced small scale pvp in ESO. It's just not their thing. Even Blizzard gets bgs wrong sometimes and they've been doing it for ten years.0 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.
As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.
The problem with this is you want death to be meaningless. IF you are defending a keep and i kill you and you cant get rezzed and have to relasease but can come back in 30seconds....then killing you was pointless and that was also the problem with F camps. The fact that now I can kill you and if you release you are out of the battle and is what actually makes the system work and has purpose. This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions, this system also makes map placement important as gives tactics to map position and travel time. This system also makes player rezzes very important. battle are actually decided by player skills and not just who can zerg back faster.
Too bad you never played DAOC, if you had you wouldn't be complaining. when you had to release, it was usually a 20 minute run back out to the other side of the map. 10 minutes if you were with a speed class.
structured PvP doesn't make death meaningless.
making X amount deaths hurt your team score or literally limiting the amount of your team respawns.
if anything Mobas and FPS games have shown us what games look like when death truly matters.
the feeling of being the last man standing or your team being one death away from a loss feels a lot better then killing someone just so they spawn again so you can farm more AP.
Stuctured matches take away all the chaos and unknown. They also reset shortly later and afterward its like nothing matters, no actions stand. In Cyrodiil what you do stands until the enemy alliance takes actions to change that. there is no waiting for resets, You are also learning to survive on the battle field and when you are the last man standing after a battle it means so much more. Not knowing what you will encounter or could come "over that hill" at you is what adds excitement. Your plans can be completely changed for the night by the enemy realms actions, like when they are going for one of your elder scrolls. this causes panic and chaos, you can see it in zone chat. And it causes more excitement and satisfaction if you are victorious than any pointless resetting match or arena battle will ever cause. there are times when the enemies action kept me playing 4 hours longer and even made me cancel my real life plans for that night. I never remember a stuctured match doing that.Edited by Pirhana7_ESO on 8 April 2015 17:151 -
Anilahation✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »
Can you present any hard data to back up this assumption?
I already did on the OP the revenue of multiple games and you'll notice none of them have RvR.
most WoW streamers stream arenas.trimsic_ESO wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »trimsic_ESO wrote: »Structured PVP in arenas is boring as hell in the long term. Many MMO offer this type of PVP, and they don't manage to keep their player base.
Large scale combats can be fun, provided that they are not resolved by siege weapons or by the lag.
ESO was designed for these large scale combats - ZOS has built their own graphics engine for that - and is one of the few MMO on the market that proposes such combats. It would be a pity not to finish the job and provide the players with something unique and fun.
Swtor GW2 and WoW have arenas and their playerbase is fine...
Yeah it's pretty silly that y'all counter argument is " I don't want other PvP options because I want people to be forced to do the single option."
WOW is not popular for its arenas, and no, the player base of GW2 and SWTOR is not fine. Both have been a huge desillusion.
also on the chart I gave you notice Swtor is listed in the top 5 but not GW2 ,warhammer online, or DAOC in revenue earned 2013.
Swtor is making revenue which means it's doing well... it even launched an expansion.
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Anilahation✭✭✭✭Best thing about structured PvP is premades are forced to fight other premades ( this is true in WoW and league).
on games like that I can succeed on my own reaching Platinum 1 on league and GM on Starcraft2... even on Battleforge I was in the top 200 on my own since the ladder was 1v1's.
honestly though one of the best things about structured PvP is it's more fair then RvR.
your team of equal numbers go in and you complete the objective.. since ESO can supprt a large amount of players it could have things like 50+v50+ on game modes like control the node,CTF,kill the king, assault and defend and the list goes on...
hell they could even add 3 faction sided battlegrounds which would be unique to ESO.0 -
noobfury✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Structured PvP sells a lot better on the market and will appeal to the console gamers a lot more who generally only played structured PvP.
the fact is RvR is a overhyped nostalgic feature that is never implemented correctly to the way " we" want it because the fact is what we felt was simply something new and you can't revive something of nostalgia.
inb4 (but ZOS promised it)
I'm not asking for it to be removed but after the imperial city is added serious PvP needs to be the focus because atm all Cyrodill is literally just AP grind fest of boredom...
usually when a game offers PvP having a single form of PvP is bad and proof of that is Destiny.
Destiny only has death match.
Destiny is bad.
having one option of PvP is bad, just like having one option for PvE is bad.
Repost of a bunch of other threads. I'll just do the same here then I guess :
"Battleground type pvp sucks in my humble opinion. If I wanted no real surprises or variation in an instanced zone that goes poof after 10 minutes and is a small landmass. I could go play an fps. I play RvR pvp because it has no magical set definitive ending time or condition, and is persistent while offering all types of pvp from roaming small group, solo or duo, zerging, sieges, small skilled strike forces, ambushing, a huge terrain with travel routes, and some pve even to do if you want to still be able to have pvp happen instead of being 100% safe in pve zones.
Progression in bg's? You're describing how Cyrodiil works right now. Most start out by zerging around in huge groups where they aren't individually as important to the fight while new players. Then often they branch out as they learn to play, not dying to siege fire constantly (many seem to get stuck on that one hehe), and figuring out how the flow of combat tends to go. They then try making their own groups, usually smaller as they become more skilled and some from there go on to do strike force groups as they become great players, and solo/duo monsters the like of which causes cries for nerfs amongst the unskilled or people not understanding game mechanics
. Some don't, and just zerg, gradually becoming a little better but not going off much or in smaller groups on their own. That's fine, too, if they're enjoying themselves. And for the big bad wolves? Well, more prey 
."
It absolutely would be a huge negative and critical mistake for the ESO team to shift to focusing only on meaningless minigames. Cyrodiil's working well, and will be even better when the Imperial City hits. What's needed is for that to happen, and people to learn how to play there without having a big on screen marker saying "go scout this milegate to cut off enemy reinforcements" for them to do so.
This reply is spot on imho.
Just to add ,
The single server , single large area mechanics for AVA create scenarios that would never manifest themselves in a structured setting.
It might be wise to consider that those of us who have been there and done that are attracted to this type of game play because we don't want to participate in structured pvp.
So why come to this game and then ask to change one of the main attractions for many players into something we can already find in a ton of other games out there ?
If structured pvp is so great why aren't the people suggesting it playing those games instead of being here?
Why not put some thought into how we can improve the current system rather than change it into something else.noobfury earned the Eighth Anniversary badge.Thanks for sticking with us for 8 years. PC NA2 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Structured PvP sells a lot better on the market and will appeal to the console gamers a lot more who generally only played structured PvP.
the fact is RvR is a overhyped nostalgic feature that is never implemented correctly to the way " we" want it because the fact is what we felt was simply something new and you can't revive something of nostalgia.
inb4 (but ZOS promised it)
I'm not asking for it to be removed but after the imperial city is added serious PvP needs to be the focus because atm all Cyrodill is literally just AP grind fest of boredom...
usually when a game offers PvP having a single form of PvP is bad and proof of that is Destiny.
Destiny only has death match.
Destiny is bad.
having one option of PvP is bad, just like having one option for PvE is bad.
Repost of a bunch of other threads. I'll just do the same here then I guess :
"Battleground type pvp sucks in my humble opinion. If I wanted no real surprises or variation in an instanced zone that goes poof after 10 minutes and is a small landmass. I could go play an fps. I play RvR pvp because it has no magical set definitive ending time or condition, and is persistent while offering all types of pvp from roaming small group, solo or duo, zerging, sieges, small skilled strike forces, ambushing, a huge terrain with travel routes, and some pve even to do if you want to still be able to have pvp happen instead of being 100% safe in pve zones.
Progression in bg's? You're describing how Cyrodiil works right now. Most start out by zerging around in huge groups where they aren't individually as important to the fight while new players. Then often they branch out as they learn to play, not dying to siege fire constantly (many seem to get stuck on that one hehe), and figuring out how the flow of combat tends to go. They then try making their own groups, usually smaller as they become more skilled and some from there go on to do strike force groups as they become great players, and solo/duo monsters the like of which causes cries for nerfs amongst the unskilled or people not understanding game mechanics. Some don't, and just zerg, gradually becoming a little better but not going off much or in smaller groups on their own. That's fine, too, if they're enjoying themselves. And for the big bad wolves? Well, more prey ."
It absolutely would be a huge negative and critical mistake for the ESO team to shift to focusing only on meaningless minigames. Cyrodiil's working well, and will be even better when the Imperial City hits. What's needed is for that to happen, and people to learn how to play there without having a big on screen marker saying "go scout this milegate to cut off enemy reinforcements" for them to do so.
This reply is spot on imho.
Just to add ,
The single server , single large area mechanics for AVA create scenarios that would never manifest themselves in a structured setting.
It might be wise to consider that those of us who have been there and done that are attracted to this type of game play because we don't want to participate in structured pvp.
So why come to this game and then ask to change one of the main attractions for many players into something we can already find in a ton of other games out there ?
If structured pvp is so great why aren't the people suggesting it playing those games instead of being here?
Why not put some thought into how we can improve the current system rather than change it into something else.
Cyrodiil is like WoW bgs pre-Cata or pre-Wrath. 10-15 guys from a pvp guild on TS or Vent can easily destroy 20-30 puggers. They call it using 'tactics' but it's just steamrolling pug players. Lots of fun for the 10 or15 guys. Luckily it isn't like that all the time in Cyrodiil. Unless you're playing as EP most of the time lol.1 -
Molsondry✭✭✭Hey folks dont get me wrong no one is asking to remove Cyro they are asking some kind of competitive pvp . Cyro is just an open world AvAvA pvp for casual. There is absolutely nothing competitive about it and there WAY TO MUCH way to just gank scroll abuse and etc. There are no faire real small cale pvp what so ever unless you actualy talk to somone in an other alliance and set up one.
Hardcore pvp player ask for some kind of ranked instanced battleground that would be competitive and would add real small scale pvp.
Nowhere we ask to remove cyrodil its a great for casual solo pugging and doing some fun i would compare cyro to Random battleground in wow actually.
Also adding that kind of system would help alot Cyro with lag and helping alot new players out in there thinking most of the top end pvp player are gonna stop mostly stop Cyro ( for most of it) And get into these ranked instanced battle ground instead of waisting there tim just running around in Cyro ganking nubs. wich is absolutely NOT FUN.
So i just see good thing everywhere. Better envirnoment in casual Cyro AvAvA dragging out Top pvp player out of there. And giving them ranked pvp play where they can REALLY test there skills agaisnt a equally matched up team with everyone vr14 and fully geared.
And like mentioned several time above those are nothing to develop compared to Cyro and they arent hard to maintain.
And I also wanna put a heads up on everyone suggestion small scale pvp XvXvX . no this cant be competitive too much place for abuse with alliance into the small scale pvp it will end up in ok we kill X team together and then we fight and will always end up in a XvX anyway. This model cant work in competitve play. And its also one of the reason Cyro will NEVER be competitivev9 Sorcerer0 -
Molsondry✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Structured PvP sells a lot better on the market and will appeal to the console gamers a lot more who generally only played structured PvP.
the fact is RvR is a overhyped nostalgic feature that is never implemented correctly to the way " we" want it because the fact is what we felt was simply something new and you can't revive something of nostalgia.
inb4 (but ZOS promised it)
I'm not asking for it to be removed but after the imperial city is added serious PvP needs to be the focus because atm all Cyrodill is literally just AP grind fest of boredom...
usually when a game offers PvP having a single form of PvP is bad and proof of that is Destiny.
Destiny only has death match.
Destiny is bad.
having one option of PvP is bad, just like having one option for PvE is bad.
Repost of a bunch of other threads. I'll just do the same here then I guess :
"Battleground type pvp sucks in my humble opinion. If I wanted no real surprises or variation in an instanced zone that goes poof after 10 minutes and is a small landmass. I could go play an fps. I play RvR pvp because it has no magical set definitive ending time or condition, and is persistent while offering all types of pvp from roaming small group, solo or duo, zerging, sieges, small skilled strike forces, ambushing, a huge terrain with travel routes, and some pve even to do if you want to still be able to have pvp happen instead of being 100% safe in pve zones.
Progression in bg's? You're describing how Cyrodiil works right now. Most start out by zerging around in huge groups where they aren't individually as important to the fight while new players. Then often they branch out as they learn to play, not dying to siege fire constantly (many seem to get stuck on that one hehe), and figuring out how the flow of combat tends to go. They then try making their own groups, usually smaller as they become more skilled and some from there go on to do strike force groups as they become great players, and solo/duo monsters the like of which causes cries for nerfs amongst the unskilled or people not understanding game mechanics. Some don't, and just zerg, gradually becoming a little better but not going off much or in smaller groups on their own. That's fine, too, if they're enjoying themselves. And for the big bad wolves? Well, more prey ."
It absolutely would be a huge negative and critical mistake for the ESO team to shift to focusing only on meaningless minigames. Cyrodiil's working well, and will be even better when the Imperial City hits. What's needed is for that to happen, and people to learn how to play there without having a big on screen marker saying "go scout this milegate to cut off enemy reinforcements" for them to do so.
This reply is spot on imho.
Just to add ,
The single server , single large area mechanics for AVA create scenarios that would never manifest themselves in a structured setting.
It might be wise to consider that those of us who have been there and done that are attracted to this type of game play because we don't want to participate in structured pvp.
So why come to this game and then ask to change one of the main attractions for many players into something we can already find in a ton of other games out there ?
If structured pvp is so great why aren't the people suggesting it playing those games instead of being here?
Why not put some thought into how we can improve the current system rather than change it into something else.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Structured PvP sells a lot better on the market and will appeal to the console gamers a lot more who generally only played structured PvP.
the fact is RvR is a overhyped nostalgic feature that is never implemented correctly to the way " we" want it because the fact is what we felt was simply something new and you can't revive something of nostalgia.
inb4 (but ZOS promised it)
I'm not asking for it to be removed but after the imperial city is added serious PvP needs to be the focus because atm all Cyrodill is literally just AP grind fest of boredom...
usually when a game offers PvP having a single form of PvP is bad and proof of that is Destiny.
Destiny only has death match.
Destiny is bad.
having one option of PvP is bad, just like having one option for PvE is bad.
Repost of a bunch of other threads. I'll just do the same here then I guess :
"Battleground type pvp sucks in my humble opinion. If I wanted no real surprises or variation in an instanced zone that goes poof after 10 minutes and is a small landmass. I could go play an fps. I play RvR pvp because it has no magical set definitive ending time or condition, and is persistent while offering all types of pvp from roaming small group, solo or duo, zerging, sieges, small skilled strike forces, ambushing, a huge terrain with travel routes, and some pve even to do if you want to still be able to have pvp happen instead of being 100% safe in pve zones.
Progression in bg's? You're describing how Cyrodiil works right now. Most start out by zerging around in huge groups where they aren't individually as important to the fight while new players. Then often they branch out as they learn to play, not dying to siege fire constantly (many seem to get stuck on that one hehe), and figuring out how the flow of combat tends to go. They then try making their own groups, usually smaller as they become more skilled and some from there go on to do strike force groups as they become great players, and solo/duo monsters the like of which causes cries for nerfs amongst the unskilled or people not understanding game mechanics. Some don't, and just zerg, gradually becoming a little better but not going off much or in smaller groups on their own. That's fine, too, if they're enjoying themselves. And for the big bad wolves? Well, more prey ."
It absolutely would be a huge negative and critical mistake for the ESO team to shift to focusing only on meaningless minigames. Cyrodiil's working well, and will be even better when the Imperial City hits. What's needed is for that to happen, and people to learn how to play there without having a big on screen marker saying "go scout this milegate to cut off enemy reinforcements" for them to do so.
This reply is spot on imho.
Just to add ,
The single server , single large area mechanics for AVA create scenarios that would never manifest themselves in a structured setting.
It might be wise to consider that those of us who have been there and done that are attracted to this type of game play because we don't want to participate in structured pvp.
So why come to this game and then ask to change one of the main attractions for many players into something we can already find in a ton of other games out there ?
If structured pvp is so great why aren't the people suggesting it playing those games instead of being here?
Why not put some thought into how we can improve the current system rather than change it into something else.
This is a toxic way to think . Its in other game go back there ! lol wow plz dont post anymore.v9 Sorcerer0 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »
Can you present any hard data to back up this assumption?
I already did on the OP the revenue of multiple games and you'll notice none of them have RvR.
most WoW streamers stream arenas.trimsic_ESO wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »trimsic_ESO wrote: »Structured PVP in arenas is boring as hell in the long term. Many MMO offer this type of PVP, and they don't manage to keep their player base.
Large scale combats can be fun, provided that they are not resolved by siege weapons or by the lag.
ESO was designed for these large scale combats - ZOS has built their own graphics engine for that - and is one of the few MMO on the market that proposes such combats. It would be a pity not to finish the job and provide the players with something unique and fun.
Swtor GW2 and WoW have arenas and their playerbase is fine...
Yeah it's pretty silly that y'all counter argument is " I don't want other PvP options because I want people to be forced to do the single option."
WOW is not popular for its arenas, and no, the player base of GW2 and SWTOR is not fine. Both have been a huge desillusion.
also on the chart I gave you notice Swtor is listed in the top 5 but not GW2 ,warhammer online, or DAOC in revenue earned 2013.
Swtor is making revenue which means it's doing well... it even launched an expansion.
They are streaming for a specific audience. A very small segment of the population does arenas in WoW competitively. Granted that even a small slice of WoW's pop can be big numbers. But ask around or randomly look up some of your friends' or families' or acquaintance's armory for their arenas ratings. Most won't even have 1800+ ratings.0 -
Observant✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »
Can you present any hard data to back up this assumption?
I already did on the OP the revenue of multiple games and you'll notice none of them have RvR.
most WoW streamers stream arenas.trimsic_ESO wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »trimsic_ESO wrote: »Structured PVP in arenas is boring as hell in the long term. Many MMO offer this type of PVP, and they don't manage to keep their player base.
Large scale combats can be fun, provided that they are not resolved by siege weapons or by the lag.
ESO was designed for these large scale combats - ZOS has built their own graphics engine for that - and is one of the few MMO on the market that proposes such combats. It would be a pity not to finish the job and provide the players with something unique and fun.
Swtor GW2 and WoW have arenas and their playerbase is fine...
Yeah it's pretty silly that y'all counter argument is " I don't want other PvP options because I want people to be forced to do the single option."
WOW is not popular for its arenas, and no, the player base of GW2 and SWTOR is not fine. Both have been a huge desillusion.
also on the chart I gave you notice Swtor is listed in the top 5 but not GW2 ,warhammer online, or DAOC in revenue earned 2013.
Swtor is making revenue which means it's doing well... it even launched an expansion.
They are streaming for a specific audience. A very small segment of the population does arenas in WoW competitively. Granted that even a small slice of WoW's pop can be big numbers. But ask around or randomly look up some of your friends' or families' or acquaintance's armory for their arenas ratings. Most won't even have 1800+ ratings.
If AvAvA performance was consistently playable, we wouldn't be asking for this.
BUT THEY'VE HAD A YEAR AND IT'S WORSE NOW THAN EVER.
Sooooo, give me small scale until you fix the latency.Vehemence0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭I like the AvA pvp currently in ESO. I do feel there needs to be some love and attention to pvp. I know the Imperial City is coming, but Zenimax really needs to give pvpers more.
I personally would like to see Arenas. It fits into lore and could be small group oriented with even a background story line and quest line. It is something that smaller guilds could manage to have grouping for and if done right could help smaller guilds stand out to certain players that do not want to be part of the large scale AvA.0 -
Molsondry✭✭✭they arent that rare brah . there alot a player around 2.2k
For example I am one
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Molsondry/simplev9 Sorcerer0 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭they arent that rare brah . there alot a player around 2.2k
For example I am one
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Molsondry/simple
Grats. There are a lot in numbers but as a percentage of the WoW pop not much. Even you have to admit that.
To add some color for those who don't play WoW, Tichondrius is a Horde dominated pvp server. He plays an Alliance lock.Edited by wrlifeboil on 8 April 2015 18:250 -
Observant✭✭✭✭Most people want Arena/Small scale merely to get away from the damn ping rates in Cyrodiil. Not because they don't want AvA.
It's a quick, temporary fix, but it gives us PVPers something to do while they take their time fixing performance issues.Vehemence0