ZOS should stop bothering with AvA and focus on Structured PvP.

noobfury · April 2015

I have been involved in pvp for over 10 years in everything from mmorpg's to mobas, Asian ginders, sub based games like EQ 2 , Darkfall and many many others. I even still have my original hard copy of Fury .

I can assure you , the RVR pvp in this game is among the best I've ever played in any game including open world and objective based games. Never boring.

Structured pvp is ok but I would never want to see the current system in Cyrodil changed , it would have to be in completely separate instances.

Sure it can use some improvements but then again everything can. A better rewards system might be a good incentive.

Running back is harsh but it's part of the overall strategy and prevents zerg fests when possible also.

Huckdabuck · April 2015

Valymer wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ESO doesn't need "structured" pvp even if it would be a welcomed addition. It needs more meaningful objectives spread out around the map. More towns and resources to hold away from the keeps that effect the overall conflict. Something that would give smaller groups something to fight over besides a choke point and pathway from one keep to the next. ATM Cyrodiil, while fun, is nothing more than a glorified tower defense game. It really needs to have more depth than that. It's just so wrong ESO went that direction with the overall AvA concept.

QFT

I just can't get excited about retaking Alessia for the 10000th time when I know that it will flip again in a few hours.

Do you get excited about killing/being killed by a couple of toons for the 10000th time when you know that you will kill them/be killed again within a few minutes/hours?

Bouvin · April 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I would like to know the name of the MMO which you refer to as "good pvp", just so that we know where you are coming from.

Myself, I played anything from DAOC to WOW and I just don't see an MMO right now, where small scale pvp actually works out well. Most of these small scale pvp´s are a grind, nothing less. Players are thrown into a queue system and I mean all of them. Nobody knows anyone, nobody cares for anyone, nobody is based on his skill or dedication in a specific team as there are no brackets. No! Its all random and these randoms then fight premades and lose every game.

Then we have the WOW or GW2 example, where randoms are not even allowed to pvp in said game (competitive format). Also this is pretty bad, as it destroys pvp for Casuals and non elitist gamers who don't have the will or time to join these premades.

So ya, could you give an example of where small scale pvp actually works? Thank you.

1) Open World PvP (good ole UO had it right originally)
2) RvR/AvA
3) Structured PvP (arenas, XvX, etc)

All are fun in their own way.

Justice System could = Open World. I hope they do eventually implement it.

I'd also like to see structurer PvP. Why not have options? If I wanna RvR, I can do that. If I don't feel like going into Lagrodil, why not have the option to queue up for some structured PvP?

HeroOfNone · April 2015

Hi folks, have you read this thread on 4v4 to 24v24v24 arenas and battlegrounds? . It already has a lot of these debates, topics, and is a hub for a lot of work done with structured PVP elements. If you support structured pvp make sure to keep these topics at the top of the forums so ZOS knows where we want development time devoted to.

Bouvin · April 2015

pecheckler wrote: »

I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.

As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.

The problem is, in objective based PvP (taking keeps) you can't just let people respawn and be right back in the fight.

Personally, I think removing forward camps was a good idea.

But that's why need to provide us with other options, like structured PvP. Heck, even World of Warhammer had both AvA/RvR and Structured PvP.

Rohaus · April 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I would like to know the name of the MMO which you refer to as "good pvp", just so that we know where you are coming from.

Myself, I played anything from DAOC to WOW and I just don't see an MMO right now, where small scale pvp actually works out well. Most of these small scale pvp´s are a grind, nothing less. Players are thrown into a queue system and I mean all of them. Nobody knows anyone, nobody cares for anyone, nobody is based on his skill or dedication in a specific team as there are no brackets. No! Its all random and these randoms then fight premades and lose every game.

Then we have the WOW or GW2 example, where randoms are not even allowed to pvp in said game (competitive format). Also this is pretty bad, as it destroys pvp for Casuals and non elitist gamers who don't have the will or time to join these premades.

So ya, could you give an example of where small scale pvp actually works? Thank you.

I completely and totally agree with everything you are saying here. This really got me to thinking... prior to ESO, I played Age of Conan. A long time ago the developer, Funcom, removed the ability for friends to queue up with each other for mini-games (similar to battlegrounds). This was an unwelcome change for many PvPers... the hardcore ones anyways. Later, Funcom gave back the ability to queue with friends but that was ONLY for competitive mode which yielded ZERO reward in terms of PvP XP gained. It failed.

So the problem was that puggers got ROFL stomped by organized groups and so no one queued at all for mini-games. So, it was a double edged sword as they say.

People say that ZERG is all you get with large scaled PvP... same can be said for structured PvP. If a pug group faces an organized group, you get ROFL stomped... and it isn't fun unless you are one of the groups that is rofl stomping.

In ESO, if I don't have a group to roll with... I can always find action. Some times I get good fights... some times I get zerged.

Still, I do miss the days of queuing up in Age of Conan and playing the odds game of whether I got a good team or not... I fared quite well but that was because I was a Bear Shaman!

For the short time I played GW2, that too was frustrating because regular structured PvP, you could not group up with a buddy... folks have been asking for the ability to at least queue with ONE friend in Age of Conan... bah... poor game... she is dead...

ESO is bad ass and I love it! I would only hope for some form of Structured PvP if Cyrodiil ever died out... but that won't happen for a long time... especially if ZOS continues to add things to fight over in Cyrodiil.

I do believe that Structured PvP and Open world Siege style PvP could coexist with each other so long as the rewards were seperated... you would HAVE to give unique MUST HAVE rewards for both Structure PvP and Siege PvP so that way you would entice people to play both.

Peace,

deepseamk20b14_ESO · April 2015

My argument FOR structured PvP and "battle grounds" type PvP:

When Aion added the 1v1 and 4v4 and I think another 2v2v2 it was awesome, plus vet dredge. There was still mass battles at keeps but people did both. Tera was the same way, they added in a battle grounds type mode with several different sub modes and people constantly play it and it is very competitive. These games were improved because of these additions and though F2P they have been around for years now and still have thousands upon thousands of players around the world and zones are always populated.

There will always be premades. I don't see why people complain about it. It's an MMO and people will be competitive. This isn't Candy land of the communists where everyone is equal and no one excels over another.

Not to mention what's the difference between premades in structured PvP and AvA? My guild is very organized and we crush people all the time in AvA even when severely outnumbered. It doesn't matter what mode you play in ANYONE who is organized and a good player will destroy those who are not. If a person does not want to play structured PvP because they are scared to get their butts handed to them by a premade then don't do it. Keep playing AvA. Don't try and take away something good from those who want it just because you think "casual" players will lose all the time. Not to mention it doesn't even affect people who won't engage in it whatsoever. Keep playing AvA and pretend structured competitive PvP isn't there and there will be no issue, it's like it doesn't even happen.

I know another issue that people have is they feel AvA will die. This is not even close to the case. People will spend their time in one or two matches and go right back to AvA because they want Cyrodiil bonuses. It's as simple as that. ZoS could even let people only enter the battle grounds maybe twice a day. Once you've done your two, you go right back to AvA. Other games have done this and it works just fine. ZoS can also make a champion league that has leader boards and a non-champion league for casual players.

Adding more ways to PvP only makes the game more dynamic and interesting. I hate when people try to ruin fun for others just because they are pessimists and think they will always lose.

Bottom line: You're scared of casual players being owned by pre-mades then stay in Cyrodiil. You'll still get steam rolled by organized groups there too.

noobfury · April 2015

Plenty of people like this game and it's current system for what it is including myself.

Coming from and comparing other games , asking to add features from those games takes away from what this game is in the first place.

While your at it why not ask them to add separate servers and sparkle ponies as well . We could turn pvp into a gear based zerg fest with pre mades and live streams.

Asking for improvements to the current system is one thing , but turning this into another Rift or WOW by adding useless features is not going to fly.

Drazhar14 · April 2015

They should add the city of Kvatch to the game since it has an area and would appeal to the Oblivion fans, and dedicate it to a structured PvP hub.

MrGhosty · April 2015

While I would like to see some form of smaller scale PvP added in, I don't think they should give up on the AvAvA concept. In fact, I think they need to double down on it and give us MORE to fight over and introduce a true resource system into the game.

I am a longtime player of Planetside 2 and while I would never call that game popular, it does well enough for itself that the fights are consistently fun. When I mention this game, I do realize it is a shooter, but it also manages to put a lot of players on screen at once and the map excels at providing various size objectives to allow for single players, small groups, large groups, and zergs to all find something to get up to.

The current system as it stands is an excellent starting point, what I feel we need now are more objectives in between major objectives, better porting options (probably tie them into the resource control meta game), controllable gates/bridges and some "alert" types( like carrying a scroll but instead protect a convoy or some other resource to pull fighters away from other areas of the map)

I don't believe ESO will ever gain a "mass appeal" and trying to cater to people who aren't there is a waste of resources, the people who have stuck around since the beginning have done so for the various aspects of the game they like so refine those aspects and then enjoy the positive word of mouth as others who also seek that kind of gameplay are then brought in. Will ESO ever see mass consumption like WoW? absolutely not but catering to a community of entitled, fickle gamers seems like a bad idea as it will drive away current players and have nothing left when "the next best thing" comes along and all those arena or structured pvp gamers leave as well.

(BTW, I'm not saying all gamers who are into Arena/structured PvP are fickle and entitled, I'm just saying that particular community has an overall stereotype of being that way and I've personally observed it having once been an avid player of that particular type of PvP going on 10+ years now)

Pirhana7_ESO · April 2015

pecheckler wrote: »

I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.

As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.

The problem with this is you want death to be meaningless. IF you are defending a keep and i kill you and you cant get rezzed and have to relasease but can come back in 30seconds....then killing you was pointless and that was also the problem with F camps. The fact that now I can kill you and if you release you are out of the battle and is what actually makes the system work and has purpose. This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions, this system also makes map placement important as gives tactics to map position and travel time. This system also makes player rezzes very important. battle are actually decided by player skills and not just who can zerg back faster.

Too bad you never played DAOC, if you had you wouldn't be complaining. when you had to release, it was usually a 20 minute run back out to the other side of the map. 10 minutes if you were with a speed class.

Xandryah · April 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I would like to know the name of the MMO which you refer to as "good pvp", just so that we know where you are coming from.

Myself, I played anything from DAOC to WOW and I just don't see an MMO right now, where small scale pvp actually works out well. Most of these small scale pvp´s are a grind, nothing less. Players are thrown into a queue system and I mean all of them. Nobody knows anyone, nobody cares for anyone, nobody is based on his skill or dedication in a specific team as there are no brackets. No! Its all random and these randoms then fight premades and lose every game.

Then we have the WOW or GW2 example, where randoms are not even allowed to pvp in said game (competitive format). Also this is pretty bad, as it destroys pvp for Casuals and non elitist gamers who don't have the will or time to join these premades.

So ya, could you give an example of where small scale pvp actually works? Thank you.

swtor pvp works well... it's always the same thing.. like football or volleyball but there are quite a few affecionados that regularly play the matches with pugs (casual groups) sometimes you win; sometimes not...sometimes you win crushingly...
sometimes you lose bad... you can choose to quit the warzone when you see you are playing against a Teamspeak-hardcore-guild or against/with players that you don't get along with...or way too weak players...

personally i like very much close wins and close losses are also good to digest..

i have the strong feeling that PVP in RP-server is much much more competitive and aggressive.. while the PVP server is more relaxed, but still very enjoyable.. probably (my guess) because most players by default start a RP-toon (because MMO's are RP games after all) and then play the PVP-content after having had their share of PVE..

Emma_Overload · April 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.

As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.

The problem with this is you want death to be meaningless. IF you are defending a keep and i kill you and you cant get rezzed and have to relasease but can come back in 30seconds....then killing you was pointless and that was also the problem with F camps. The fact that now I can kill you and if you release you are out of the battle and is what actually makes the system work and has purpose. This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions, this system also makes map placement important as gives tactics to map position and travel time. This system also makes player rezzes very important. battle are actually decided by player skills and not just who can zerg back faster.

Too bad you never played DAOC, if you had you wouldn't be complaining. when you had to release, it was usually a 20 minute run back out to the other side of the map. 10 minutes if you were with a speed class.

"This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions..."

The problem is that the smartest thing to do is find the nearest Wayshrine and port out of Cyrodiil. I have no desire to waste hours of my day in a horse simulator, which is exactly what Cyrodiil has become, especially after they removed forward camps. So many problems with ESO PvP could be fixed if you could simply resurrect yourself on the spot like you can everywhere else in Tamriel. The current system is massively biased against players who are not in organized groups, and everything ZoS does seems to make it worse.

Xandryah · April 2015

i just wanted to add that for me personally it's more gratifying to have goals during a instanced pvp-match... where the group must do something (protect, escort, click, gather, conquer, fetch, liberate... etc..) and where a strategy and commited teamwork is necessary and communication too...(chat mainly)

i never cared about leaderboards and farming kills... it's not important for me... i prefer the whole team wins the match with 12 kills each while the other team loses with 35 kills each...

Borders · April 2015

In my opinion from a balancing and interest stand point this is just not really possible here right now.

The short list for essential changes would likely not be worth the work comparative to the interest. AvA WvW etc. is simple mob vs mob. Small scale requires nuanced game design and balance that simply does not exist here at the moment.

Just something that I realized after many years of mmos. Do not go looking for what one game does well in another simply to have everything in one place. The way I see it if one game does PvP like a champ then PvP there. If another does PvE like a champ then PvE there. You have options so use them.

Pirhana7_ESO · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.

As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.

The problem with this is you want death to be meaningless. IF you are defending a keep and i kill you and you cant get rezzed and have to relasease but can come back in 30seconds....then killing you was pointless and that was also the problem with F camps. The fact that now I can kill you and if you release you are out of the battle and is what actually makes the system work and has purpose. This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions, this system also makes map placement important as gives tactics to map position and travel time. This system also makes player rezzes very important. battle are actually decided by player skills and not just who can zerg back faster.

Too bad you never played DAOC, if you had you wouldn't be complaining. when you had to release, it was usually a 20 minute run back out to the other side of the map. 10 minutes if you were with a speed class.

"This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions..."

The problem is that the smartest thing to do is find the nearest Wayshrine and port out of Cyrodiil. I have no desire to waste hours of my day in a horse simulator, which is exactly what Cyrodiil has become, especially after they removed forward camps. So many problems with ESO PvP could be fixed if you could simply resurrect yourself on the spot like you can everywhere else in Tamriel. The current system is massively biased against players who are not in organized groups, and everything ZoS does seems to make it worse.

I play solo and make smart desision and dont try to run in like superman. if i think i might die i try to make sure i am in reach for a rez, and if I do have to release it never takes me more than 3 minutes to get back to the keep siege or battle line. if you die you release to your next keep and ride back, its not that far....... especially if you have maxed horse speed.

Rezzing yourself on the spot would completely destroy pvp. whats the point of killing an enemy player? you kill them so they they are gone and yoru side wins the battle and can control that land.

If thats what you really want go play GW2 where you kill someone and they are back 30seconds later and can kill you and its pointless.

If i had t my way, once you had to release at a keep seige you were barred from coming back to that battle until the keep taken or the keep was succesfully defended and no longer under siege that way death was death in that battle. But you could still go anywhere else.

Attorneyatlawl · April 2015

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Structured PvP sells a lot better on the market and will appeal to the console gamers a lot more who generally only played structured PvP.

the fact is RvR is a overhyped nostalgic feature that is never implemented correctly to the way " we" want it because the fact is what we felt was simply something new and you can't revive something of nostalgia.

inb4 (but ZOS promised it)

I'm not asking for it to be removed but after the imperial city is added serious PvP needs to be the focus because atm all Cyrodill is literally just AP grind fest of boredom...

usually when a game offers PvP having a single form of PvP is bad and proof of that is Destiny.

Destiny only has death match.
Destiny is bad.
having one option of PvP is bad, just like having one option for PvE is bad.

Repost of a bunch of other threads. I'll just do the same here then I guess

:

"Battleground type pvp sucks in my humble opinion. If I wanted no real surprises or variation in an instanced zone that goes poof after 10 minutes and is a small landmass. I could go play an fps. I play RvR pvp because it has no magical set definitive ending time or condition, and is persistent while offering all types of pvp from roaming small group, solo or duo, zerging, sieges, small skilled strike forces, ambushing, a huge terrain with travel routes, and some pve even to do if you want to still be able to have pvp happen instead of being 100% safe in pve zones.

Progression in bg's? You're describing how Cyrodiil works right now. Most start out by zerging around in huge groups where they aren't individually as important to the fight while new players. Then often they branch out as they learn to play, not dying to siege fire constantly (many seem to get stuck on that one hehe), and figuring out how the flow of combat tends to go. They then try making their own groups, usually smaller as they become more skilled and some from there go on to do strike force groups as they become great players, and solo/duo monsters the like of which causes cries for nerfs amongst the unskilled or people not understanding game mechanics

. Some don't, and just zerg, gradually becoming a little better but not going off much or in smaller groups on their own. That's fine, too, if they're enjoying themselves. And for the big bad wolves? Well, more prey

."

It absolutely would be a huge negative and critical mistake for the ESO team to shift to focusing only on meaningless minigames. Cyrodiil's working well, and will be even better when the Imperial City hits. What's needed is for that to happen, and people to learn how to play there without having a big on screen marker saying "go scout this milegate to cut off enemy reinforcements" for them to do so.

Anilahation · April 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.

As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.

The problem with this is you want death to be meaningless. IF you are defending a keep and i kill you and you cant get rezzed and have to relasease but can come back in 30seconds....then killing you was pointless and that was also the problem with F camps. The fact that now I can kill you and if you release you are out of the battle and is what actually makes the system work and has purpose. This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions, this system also makes map placement important as gives tactics to map position and travel time. This system also makes player rezzes very important. battle are actually decided by player skills and not just who can zerg back faster.

Too bad you never played DAOC, if you had you wouldn't be complaining. when you had to release, it was usually a 20 minute run back out to the other side of the map. 10 minutes if you were with a speed class.

structured PvP doesn't make death meaningless.

making X amount deaths hurt your team score or literally limiting the amount of your team respawns.

if anything Mobas and FPS games have shown us what games look like when death truly matters.

the feeling of being the last man standing or your team being one death away from a loss feels a lot better then killing someone just so they spawn again so you can farm more AP.

Valymer · April 2015

Kalman wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ESO doesn't need "structured" pvp even if it would be a welcomed addition. It needs more meaningful objectives spread out around the map. More towns and resources to hold away from the keeps that effect the overall conflict. Something that would give smaller groups something to fight over besides a choke point and pathway from one keep to the next. ATM Cyrodiil, while fun, is nothing more than a glorified tower defense game. It really needs to have more depth than that. It's just so wrong ESO went that direction with the overall AvA concept.

QFT

I just can't get excited about retaking Alessia for the 10000th time when I know that it will flip again in a few hours.

Do you get excited about killing/being killed by a couple of toons for the 10000th time when you know that you will kill them/be killed again within a few minutes/hours?

Oh, you mean like the Alessia bridge fights? No, I don't.

What I do get excited about is being given an achievable objective then battling an evenly matched group of opponents in fast-paced combat to see who can accomplish it first. Sometimes I can find this in Cyrodiil. Other times, I just find a laggy zerg and go back to PvE.

pecheckler · April 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.

As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.

The problem with this is you want death to be meaningless. IF you are defending a keep and i kill you and you cant get rezzed and have to relasease but can come back in 30seconds....then killing you was pointless and that was also the problem with F camps. The fact that now I can kill you and if you release you are out of the battle and is what actually makes the system work and has purpose. This system forces you to play smart and make smart decisions, this system also makes map placement important as gives tactics to map position and travel time. This system also makes player rezzes very important. battle are actually decided by player skills and not just who can zerg back faster.

Too bad you never played DAOC, if you had you wouldn't be complaining. when you had to release, it was usually a 20 minute run back out to the other side of the map. 10 minutes if you were with a speed class.

I played DAoC for over a year, daily. Your response makes me think you need to put more thought into how a fast method of getting back into combat can be added to Cyrodiil. Even with maximum mount speed it is unsatisfactory. I was simply stating my requirements before I partiticpate, not trying to say the strategy of keep capture should be removed.

Natjur · April 2015

Personally I would like them to stop all changes, and just fix all the current bugs and class skills.
But as a coder, I know that's not how a dev team works and they have set teams for bug fixes in different areas. But PVP is not high on my 'wanted' list, but it is high on what the PS\XBOX players want, and that's where they want to get some new money from to then pay for everything else.

SO.....I just wish the company makes lots of money so they can pay for more dev's and fix everything.

Xsorus · April 2015

Simply put, focusing on something that a bunch of other MMOs do is pointless....ESO has AVA, very few MMO's can match it.

you want to play a Structured PvP game, go play the massive amount of terrible ones out there.

Also did someone really complain the travel time in Cyrodiil takes to long? Maybe if you're level 10....It takes like 2 to 3 minutes at most between each keep...Which is fair...

pecheckler · April 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Also did someone really complain the travel time in Cyrodiil takes to long? Maybe if you're level 10....It takes like 2 to 3 minutes at most between each keep...Which is fair...

In Cyrodiil you can die in a matter of 5 seconds in actual combat, then spend between 3 to 8 minutes returning to the battle. Much of other time is spent traveling too, for reasons other than returning to where you died, such as regrouping, etc. Then there is the standing on top of or below a giant wall mindlessly lobbing siege and arrows.

That isn't fun PvP. It is part of fun PvP, but feels tedious.

Fun PvP is ACTION! Just like ESO 4 man dungeons. Constant fighting, and twitch reaction. Cyrodiil has these qualities, but in much less frequency then what myself and many others find enjoyable.

I know it is an unusual comparison because it is a different game genre, but planetside 2 is very similar to Cyrodiil, with one major enjoy-ability boosting factor. When you die, you're back in the action immediately, if you so chose. Besides that difference, from a topographical and strategic point of view, they are two of the most similar PvP archetypes in modern PC gaming.

I like huge battles, more so than a long drawn out 5v5 match. Particularly because it is so much more difficult for a subset of players to establish an unending advantage (aka pre-made teams). I enjoy the additional strategic complexity Cyrodiil has compared to what folks think is being suggested as "structured PvP".

Im here to provide my feedback on Cyrodiil, and what I'd like in addition to it. But if I'm going to suggest changes to Cyrodiil their goal would be simple.

Changes which being about;
More action.
More melee skirmishes.
Respawn locations which can be placed or moved. Think sunderers in Planetside... Or something more familiar like forward camps.
Less travel time.
Less time spent not fighting other players.
Less Zerg tug-o-war.
Anything to break up the giant mobs of players.
And most of all, less open areas. Think large structures which are the entirety of the combat sub-area, from spawn to travel to combat to death, then repeat.

Vandril · April 2015

noobfury wrote: »

Plenty of people like this game and it's current system for what it is including myself.

Coming from and comparing other games , asking to add features from those games takes away from what this game is in the first place.

While your at it why not ask them to add separate servers and sparkle ponies as well . We could turn pvp into a gear based zerg fest with pre mades and live streams.

Asking for improvements to the current system is one thing , but turning this into another Rift or WOW by adding useless features is not going to fly.

A couple of problems with the very basis of what you're saying here:

(Note: excuse the dramatic representative quotes for and general snark in each section. No offense intended, I just wanted to have some fun writing this.)

First Stop: "Don't steal from other games! Be original! Gawd!"

Nothing in ESO - not a single mechanic, item, spell, or concept - hasn't been done before in other games in some form or another. If you want to keep ESO unique, then strip out all references to swords and other medieval weaponry and equipment, skills and abilities, magic, mages, demons (daedra), gods (aedra), NPCs, player characters, players, zones, continents, worlds, guilds, chat bubbles, chat, parties, interplayer sales, items, inventory, horses, mounts, levels, quests, health bars, MP bars (magicka), stamina bars, blocking, combat...

Get the point, yet?

Just because an idea is used in another game does not mean it won't work well with and shouldn't be added into this one. The very idea that "another game already did it!" is a valid argument against the addition of a feature is just silly.

I'd also like to note that adding features already implemented into other games does not "take away from what the game is" in any way whatsoever. The game will be just as unique as it always was, just with additional features that are familiar from other games.

Second Stop: "Don't ask for such an obviously useless feature! Everyone else already has that feature!"

Asking for a feature which most of the MMO industry is embracing because it undeniably draws in many players due to its fun factor and ease of use is the very opposite of asking for a useless feature. It is very obviously a good feature if it continues to draw people into these other games, many of which are still around and doing well. It seems to be an even better feature when you realize that its addition doesn't have to even remotely effect any other feature of the game - why not have both AvA and structured PvP?

Just because you don't like a feature doesn't mean it's a useless feature. Confusing the two concepts is such a common mistake made by people that it's almost not funny anymore - it's starting to become scary.

Third Stop: "But gear will matter too much and people will zerg and...and...they'll deliberately form parties for the impending PvP combat! That's unacceptable and we cannot let it happen!"

PvP in ESO is already a gear (and skill selection) based zergfest filled with premades (the zergs). I mean...what? What would change? The scale of the premade, maybe.

Fourth Stop: "Say no to sparkle ponies!"

Shadowmere.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

I want the focus to stay on AVA. I don't want to see half the players leave AVA for some other faster way to level skills etc. I would however really like to see a dueling feature. Practicing and trying out new builds in AVA is annoying. New players could learn so much faster if they could duel.

Horrum · April 2015

AvA is the main reason I play this game. So I have to disagree.

Vandril · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I want the focus to stay on AVA. I don't want to see half the players leave AVA for some other faster way to level skills etc. I would however really like to see a dueling feature. Practicing and trying out new builds in AVA is annoying. New players could learn so much faster if they could duel.

Realistically, rewards for any structured PvP should be either entirely different from AvA's rewards or balanced alongside AvA's rewards. Who knows how Zenimax would handle that, though... So you have a fair argument, if only due to Zenimax's...less than stellar reputation on properly handling balances.

That said, if people do leave AvA for this other type of PvP, and it's not because this other type of PvP is statistically more rewarding, then it is because said people enjoy this other type of PvP more than AvA. In such a case, it would be selfish to argue against the addition of this other type of PvP only so players who would rather play that way are forced to play AvA due to lack of alternatives. Besides, enough players legitimately enjoy AvA to where I doubt the impact would be all too devastating. In fact, I question whether or not the impact would even be noticeable - while many players will probably play the structured PvP, most of them would not just outright stop playing AvA either.

Vizier · April 2015

pecheckler wrote: »

I'd quit bitching and stomach Cyrodiil if after dying I could immediately respawn and be back in the fight in less than 30 seconds. If that requirement isn't met, then it's not fun. In WoW, Rift, Planetside, Guild Wars, neverwinter, the old republic, wildstar, and many other games which compete with ESO, I can do this.

As someone who wants this non-stop action, I can't even begin to describe how pissed I was when I read forward camps were being removed. That was the wrong direction entirely.

Shrug- Play a first person shooter then. This isn't that. I don't know what else to say. IMO instant respawn AKA forward camps pretty much ruined pvp. You want instant action? Curious you chose to spend your time playing an TES MMO.

trimsic_ESO · April 2015

Structured PVP in arenas is boring as hell in the long term. Many MMO offer this type of PVP, and they don't manage to keep their player base.

Large scale combats can be fun, provided that they are not resolved by siege weapons or by the lag.

ESO was designed for these large scale combats - ZOS has built their own graphics engine for that - and is one of the few MMO on the market that proposes such combats. It would be a pity not to finish the job and provide the players with something unique and fun.

Anilahation · April 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Structured PVP in arenas is boring as hell in the long term. Many MMO offer this type of PVP, and they don't manage to keep their player base.

Large scale combats can be fun, provided that they are not resolved by siege weapons or by the lag.

ESO was designed for these large scale combats - ZOS has built their own graphics engine for that - and is one of the few MMO on the market that proposes such combats. It would be a pity not to finish the job and provide the players with something unique and fun.

Swtor GW2 and WoW have arenas and their playerbase is fine...

Yeah it's pretty silly that y'all counter argument is " I don't want other PvP options because I want people to be forced to do the single option."