Please do something with the skill "Healing Ritual"

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

I know they are much alike, but personally i found the 1 minute timer you put on it way too short. It can't be used in extended fights with only 1 minute of time. Same with the amount of charges and number of players (a raid has 12 people in it).

For your first morph you basically made a more crappy (Current) Healing Ritual. You shouldn't have to charge a preemptive heal in the middle of battle (so having armor and spell resistance, as well as immunity to control effects, is something unneeded).
Although the second suggested morph is more decent... having 2 emergency heals which you can only carry for 1 minute would be useless as i mentioned before.

Preparing 10+ heals (might be able to use a pot while you are charging your heal) before entering battle, and being able to ignore it until *** hits the fan (out of magicka?) would be a much better solution.

I know that having 10+ heals stored away doesn't sound much like emergency heals, but when actual trouble occurs you often won't make it with just 1 or 2 heals.

cote-bmsb16_ESO · March 2015

This ability would probably get my team killed in vDSA. Once I tried tossing a luminous shard at the tank, and left a dps alone for a second.. He died. ;/ lol Instant casts n hots for meee..

Rev Rielle · March 2015

I personally think they should halve the casting time, and double the healing radius of it for starters. Then give it to us to have a play-test for a while so we can see what else might need to be done.

halfbadger · March 2015

I think the skill is in a good place right now.

AssaultLemming · March 2015

Playing devils advocate for a second...Perhaps this skill is not designed for templar as healer but is designed for templar tanks? The increased self heal would make sense then and the area effect heal is a side benefit to heal the melee dps...

timidobserver · March 2015

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Playing devils advocate for a second...Perhaps this skill is not designed for templar as healer but is designed for templar tanks? The increased self heal would make sense then and the area effect heal is a side benefit to heal the melee dps...

Why would a templar tank want to use a heal with a long cast time when they could just use one without a cast time?

Locke_ESO · March 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Playing devils advocate for a second...Perhaps this skill is not designed for templar as healer but is designed for templar tanks? The increased self heal would make sense then and the area effect heal is a side benefit to heal the melee dps...

Why would a templar tank want to use a heal with a long cast time when they could just use one without a cast time?

More to the point why would he want to be healing as a tank when it will likely be overwritten by the healer anyway wasting mana for both? Not saying it would be useless but most deaths are because someone didn't block or stood in a heavy AoE rather than due to a lack of healing power or magicka.

Imo the obvious "gap on the hotbar" for this ability is to make it a viable alternative for Grand healing/Healing Springs as a mana efficient main heal. Atm it isn't because it's awkward to use and doesn't provide enough benefit for the long cast time and range restriction.

felinith66 · March 2015

I actually found a use for it while we were doing Vet Spindle. My team just couldn't down the Boss Gargoyle before it would wipe us with it's continuous AOE barrage. BOL just ate my mana. So I decided to use this w/ purifying light. I was getting 1900 to 2400 heals a pop and kept my team alive during the continuous AOEs long enough to down the Gargoyle. It was amazing.

Haven't used it since.

AssaultLemming · March 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Playing devils advocate for a second...Perhaps this skill is not designed for templar as healer but is designed for templar tanks? The increased self heal would make sense then and the area effect heal is a side benefit to heal the melee dps...

Why would a templar tank want to use a heal with a long cast time when they could just use one without a cast time?

Well if you take into account the increased self heal I would assume this spell is more mana efficient? Interestingly if you look at the recently posted data mining post on spell crafting you can see that zos philosophy is to make spells that have a cast time more powerful/mana efficient compared to instant cast spells. Coming from EQ this was certainly the design philosophy used there, the best heals had the longest cast times. It means timing rather than reflexes plays a greater role. Essentially you cast heals because you expect damage to happen, rather than casting heals because damage has already happened.

glak · March 2015

AssaultLemming wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Playing devils advocate for a second...Perhaps this skill is not designed for templar as healer but is designed for templar tanks? The increased self heal would make sense then and the area effect heal is a side benefit to heal the melee dps...

Why would a templar tank want to use a heal with a long cast time when they could just use one without a cast time?

Well if you take into account the increased self heal I would assume this spell is more mana efficient? Interestingly if you look at the recently posted data mining post on spell crafting you can see that zos philosophy is to make spells that have a cast time more powerful/mana efficient compared to instant cast spells. Coming from EQ this was certainly the design philosophy used there, the best heals had the longest cast times. It means timing rather than reflexes plays a greater role. Essentially you cast heals because you expect damage to happen, rather than casting heals because damage has already happened.

Thank you for showing us what we have to look forward to.

Joy_Division · March 2015

AssaultLemming wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Playing devils advocate for a second...Perhaps this skill is not designed for templar as healer but is designed for templar tanks? The increased self heal would make sense then and the area effect heal is a side benefit to heal the melee dps...

Why would a templar tank want to use a heal with a long cast time when they could just use one without a cast time?

Well if you take into account the increased self heal I would assume this spell is more mana efficient? Interestingly if you look at the recently posted data mining post on spell crafting you can see that zos philosophy is to make spells that have a cast time more powerful/mana efficient compared to instant cast spells. Coming from EQ this was certainly the design philosophy used there, the best heals had the longest cast times. It means timing rather than reflexes plays a greater role. Essentially you cast heals because you expect damage to happen, rather than casting heals because damage has already happened.

Are you seriously suggesting that a templar tank should drop block, stop interrupts, no longer crowd control, and all the other tank like things in order to make herself 100% vulnerable to things like the Manticora?

This is such a bad spell. I have run over 100 trials with many groups in all three factions and have never seen one person use this spell. Can we stop obfuscating the issue so Zenimax can at least try to make an interesting game with legitimate healing options?

glak · March 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Can we stop obfuscating the issue so Zenimax can at least try to make an interesting game with legitimate healing options?

Will do.

It's a dead skill, Jim.

halfbadger · March 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is such a bad spell. I have run over 100 trials with many groups in all three factions and have never seen one person use this spell. Can we stop obfuscating the issue so Zenimax can at least try to make an interesting game with legitimate healing options?

You have run over 100 trials in 1.5 but not in 1.6.
In 1.6 this spell heals for 1.6 times the amount that spamming healing springs will heal per second so If you can predict the damage you will heal people for more.

Locke_ESO · March 2015

halfbadger wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is such a bad spell. I have run over 100 trials with many groups in all three factions and have never seen one person use this spell. Can we stop obfuscating the issue so Zenimax can at least try to make an interesting game with legitimate healing options?

You have run over 100 trials in 1.5 but not in 1.6.
In 1.6 this spell heals for 1.6 times the amount that spamming healing springs will heal per second so If you can predict the damage you will heal people for more.

It is extremely "stong" and mana efficient in 1.6 but it's still slow, ponderous and fairly short range. It makes it an ideal "stack" spell for Trials in theory but the problem is in those situations you dont want slow and high hitting on a few people you want quick, decent and hitting lots of people. Healing Springs is still better for that purpose and with the mana return may still be better efficiency (not tested it). It may be decent for organised 4-player groups on bosses like Villa Theran and Engine guardian but I am still not convinced yet. My quick bars are already so crowded its hard to justify having this spell on it.

eserras7b16_ESO · March 2015

Well... going to give my opinion now, wich is the opinion of a templar who has played his templar for /played 38 days (dun have alts)

And I must say Healing Ritual is actually actually good skill. Not good for healing, if you're a healer of a 4man Veteran dungeon. But it is amazing for solo/tanking and PvP. It heals you for 12k 1.7sec cast and it doesn't cost much. Healers for veteran dungeons have other healing skills to use but this one is fine.

Mumyo · March 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is a cute but utterly ineffective and I cannot believe it somehow passed the "Is it a loser test?" that was done in preparation for 1.6.

95 times out of 100 the "Healing Springs" spell is the better alternative. It just is...sorry to the 2% of Tempaars who mistakenly believe "Healing Ritual" is viable, but the last 316 healers I have run Vet dungeons and Trials agree with me. If there is one soldier in the army who marches out of step with his company, odds are that anomalous soldier is not right and everyone else wrong.

The main problem with this spell is three-fold:
1. It's healing radius is too short...compounded by the origin being on the caster.
2. It has a cast time ... tolerable for level 14 Fungal Grotto, unacceptable in Vet dungeons where huge amounts of damage is done quickly.
3. It just doesn't heal that much...it has a tolerable Healing to Magicka ratio, but an awful Healing to Time ratio.

Since fundamentally redesigning this spell, probably the ideal solution, is impractical, my suggestion would be to make it the Templar-class alternative to healing springs, a spell 95 healers out of 100 think is great. I do not think it should be the same. It is not that hard to keep the original intent and animation of the spell and still make it at least an option. In essence, it would be a HoT that centered on the caster who could still move, but at a slower speed (ala the original spell). In essence, instead of waiting 2 seconds to get healed X amount, "Healing Springs" would begin to start healing immediately and restore X amount of health to allies over the course of 2 seconds. I think the radius would still need to be a bit bigger because 10 really isn't that large - especially when you can't aim the spell - and the numbers re-examined to ensure it's Heal to Time ratio is in the neighborhood of Healing Springs, but all in all I think this would make the spell at least an interesting alternative as opposed to a flat out loser nobody uses.

I never used the ritual...playing since beta.
Guess why?

It sucks

Locke_ESO · March 2015

Having played some more with this recently I think if they tried cutting the cast time down to say 1.5 seconds (1.3 morph) it would be worth thinking about. Atm it is good on hard hitting sustained bosses where you can stack but even there if you have one instance of being knocked down, someone gets out of range or you have to cancel to block you are pretty much going to have to spam instant heal or potentially someone dies.

Imo a good solution would be to cut the cast time down a bit, give some sort of protection ability when casting it (CC immunity, medium absorb or just apply the Right of Passage bonus from Light Weaver) and maybe have one morphs effectiveness scale off health rather than magicka to make it a useful back up heal for tanks.

Kaliki · March 2015

halfbadger wrote: »

I think the skill is in a good place right now.

In what situations do you use the spell?

Stinkur · March 2015

couple thoughts, someone mentioned something from a prior MMO I played that made me remember something....

This spell could be more usefull if 2 templars set up a rotation for the hard pve content. Where 1 begins to cast and half way thru the 2nd templar begins his cast. Anticipating damage that is going to come in hard and fast with a duo or even trio templars with rotating Rituals going out has potential to make encounters trivial. Potential..... seen it in other MMO's where certain healers would set up rotations. How we beat the toughest fights in EQ, Complete Heal rotation on main tank.... So something to this effect might work here.

My 2nd thought, screw making it heal and have a cast timer. Rework it to be an aoe raid shield buff for say 2 seconds. For 2 seconds it will absorb say 3 to 5k dmg and provide 1k spell resist and 1k armor buff. Obviously needs to be balanced out to not make it to powerfull for pve and pvp, so the amount it shields for and provides resists for is subject to opinions. But no other class can provide say a 20m range AoE shield to allies, keep timer short for how long it lasts, balance the cost so its not a spam I/We win button. Make it an oh POOP button I need to protect a large amount of people to buy me 1 or 2 more seconds to get something else done.....more heals.... people move out of way.... Not sure what different morphed versions would do haven't had a chance to think that part out. Maybe one morph heals for 1k damage if character absorbs the full amount of damage shield and 1k heal over time say 3 seconds. The other morph maybe provides 500 stamina & magicka after shield absorbs full amount. Key being the damage shield that was provide first has to block the full amount of damage its supposed to before it gives its minor 2ndary reward.

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

I love the second option the most, the first one is only optional if there is more then 1 Templar.

It sounds a lot like the Barrier skill from the Alliance war's Support tree, although that skill absorbs an insane amount of damage. Instead of the spell resist and armor buff why not use the Steadfast Ward (Restoration staff) secondary effect: Boost shields up to 300% based on the health loss. Would be a lot more useful instead as an emergency button.

Stinkur · March 2015

exactly.... lets make it a unique skill is my thought. make templars a unique healer class instead of relying on resto staff... though maybe they still have resto staff for a skill choice. But could also add a debuff/buff option to it, make the a,a,a,

Hypertionb14_ESO · March 2015

make Ritual have a 0.7sec cast time.. rebirth instant.

leave lingering with the same cast time as the new base.

beyond this, major replacement of the skill is needed, which ZOS wont do for a long time... so this is better in the short term.

skarvika · March 2015

The self-snare is actually the worst thing about this skill, not the cast time; if you're in a position where you need to self heal, you'll probably be trying to gain some distance from whatever is dealing damage to you, something that's impossible to do. In combat, this skill will hurt the player more than help. I think with some tweaking, it could be a fantastic heal skill.
This is how it should be imo with no snare:

Healing Ritual
Cast Time: 1.5 seconds
Target: Area
Radius: 10 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X.
You receive 30% additional healing.

Ritual of Rebirth
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 18 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X.
You receive 30% additional healing.
NEW EFFECT: Instant cast and increased radius

Lingering Ritual
Cast Time: 1.5 seconds
Target: Area
Radius: 28 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X and an additional X after 8 seconds.
Initial healing is increased by 30% for you.
NEW EFFECT: Additional healing after and increased radius.

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

skarvika wrote: »

The self-snare is actually the worst thing about this skill, not the cast time; if you're in a position where you need to self heal, you'll probably be trying to gain some distance from whatever is dealing damage to you, something that's impossible to do. In combat, this skill will hurt the player more than help. I think with some tweaking, it could be a fantastic heal skill.
This is how it should be imo with no snare:

Healing Ritual
Cast Time: 1.5 seconds
Target: Area
Radius: 10 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X.
You receive 30% additional healing.

Ritual of Rebirth
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 18 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X.
You receive 30% additional healing.
NEW EFFECT: Instant cast and increased radius

Lingering Ritual
Cast Time: 1.5 seconds
Target: Area
Radius: 28 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X and an additional X after 8 seconds.
Initial healing is increased by 30% for you.
NEW EFFECT: Additional healing after and increased radius.

The second shouldn't have increased Radius. Short radius but insta cast or Large radius but casting time.

skarvika · March 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

The self-snare is actually the worst thing about this skill, not the cast time; if you're in a position where you need to self heal, you'll probably be trying to gain some distance from whatever is dealing damage to you, something that's impossible to do. In combat, this skill will hurt the player more than help. I think with some tweaking, it could be a fantastic heal skill.
This is how it should be imo with no snare:

Healing Ritual
Cast Time: 1.5 seconds
Target: Area
Radius: 10 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X.
You receive 30% additional healing.

Ritual of Rebirth
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 18 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X.
You receive 30% additional healing.
NEW EFFECT: Instant cast and increased radius

Lingering Ritual
Cast Time: 1.5 seconds
Target: Area
Radius: 28 meters
Cost: X Magicka
Focus your spiritual devotion to heal yourself and nearby allies for X and an additional X after 8 seconds.
Initial healing is increased by 30% for you.
NEW EFFECT: Additional healing after and increased radius.

The second shouldn't have increased Radius. Short radius but insta cast or Large radius but casting time.

I considered that, which is why I only made it 8 meters more, whereas Lingering is 18 meters more. I don't think a reduced cast time alone would entice anyone to pick it over Lingering otherwise, as Lingering would have larger aoe and more hp restored.

Junipus · March 2015

That's all well and good, but most smart templars will change to healing springs for AoE healing since it's very cheap and gives back some magicka on top as well as being something you can cast at range (Vet Elden hollow as a prime example).

If they added it as a ground based healing AoE with range, then it'll be viable even without the magicka return. If they then made one morph a more powerful HoT and the other an instant, more powerful, heal then it'd make templars far more powerful healers and an essential class for both PvP and PvE

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

Something like Cleansing Ritual, but then an actual Healing Ritual (no pun intended)?
I would be in for that. A good Healing skill which you could place on the ground. No need to pay further attention to it, and it will keep your team alive.

If that is what you meant then it should be a whole lot more powerful than Cleansing Ritual (3-5 times as powerful, at least).
They should also reduse the time between heals to 1 second (or maybe even 0.5, but then the healing amount can be be a bit lower as it will heal a lot faster).

xaade · April 2015

What if you made it into a buff that expired like mutagen, but healed for a lot more?

glak · April 2015

Feedback 150402-002634
Suggest changing Healing Ritual to

instant cast but just to "buff" allies in the area. Reuses the Lingering Ritual proc but for the whole thing. Can be negated for balance.
1 second later, if the "buff" is still active, heals the allies it was cast upon for the full amount
does not stack or replace, in the spirit of the old version
caster must have his/her faculties when the heal goes off

You guys have the right idea:

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Something like Cleansing Ritual, but then an actual Healing Ritual (no pun intended)?
I would be in for that. A good Healing skill which you could place on the ground. No need to pay further attention to it, and it will keep your team alive.

If that is what you meant then it should be a whole lot more powerful than Cleansing Ritual (3-5 times as powerful, at least).
They should also reduse the time between heals to 1 second (or maybe even 0.5, but then the healing amount can be be a bit lower as it will heal a lot faster).

xaade wrote: »

What if you made it into a buff that expired like mutagen, but healed for a lot more?