Stamina NB Dualing build

AltusVenifus · March 2015

I have found it next to impossible to win a straight up fight with a stamina NB, medium armor, bow + dual wield against anyone other than a stamina NB. My current strategy is to run away... Is it possible to make a build that can stand and fight using this kind of setup?

Here is how I see it:
Pros:
- Highest burst DPS in the game
- Has escape tools (needs some serious luck)
- Highest sustain for stamina and magical regen (although loses DPS for this effect)
- Best CC in the game (fear)

CONS:
- DPS is terrible if required to do any defense. Offensive output is destroyed by Dodge roll, block, cc break...
- Cannot turtle and produce DPS
- No shields
- No heals (I don't have vigor, all magical heals are really silly for a stamina NB, example: refreshing path heals me for 328 per second which is 1 percent of my health for 11 secs).
- Currently DPS does not out produce turtling (I.E full out attacking a turtling character does not kill the character quickly enough, i.e. they hold the right mouse button and hit whatever magical skill and I will always die before they do...

I used to laugh at characters played like mine, because they are so easy to kill, but I'm wondering if anyone has found one that is viable in close quarters combat or dueling? I'm starting to think without viable heals / damage shields / stamina being absorbed for your defense it is a losing battle to try and win a dual.

I'm currently wearing all yellow gear with yellow enchants and speced fully in weapon power. My dueling background is pretty good (win about 60%) on the standard turtling magical builds, but it is official 0% with the build I currently am playing.

Just looking for feedback. Thanks

JTorus · March 2015

My NB build has been stamina from the start, been a rough road. Everything you've said is pretty spot on for the build, it's a difficult one to play. I might come out on top about 1/3 of any duels... and that's being optimistic. My heals are primarily Mark Target, Killer's blade, and pots. Two of those three are obviously doing me little good until my opponent is dead. You infer that this isn't an easy build, and you're right. You may want to re-think its play style.

Your build is the '***'s build'. You're not set up for a fair fight, you're not meant to be seen, your opponent should never know you're coming. 1v1 is possible, you usually just need to get the upper hand by remaining on the offensive. A majority of your time is spent in stealth while your pals engage and distract the other faction. You hang around on the outskirts, behind or ahead of the battle lines. You ambush in and help ensure that other 1v1 fight ends properly (with your faction member staying alive). You put blades and arrows in the other guy's back, not his chest. You get in, you hurt, and you get out. You're the reason people travel between keeps and outposts in groups.

And you're right, we're pretty easy to kill. The point isn't that you can sustain the damage, you have to make yourself hard to catch first. The build is less for dueling, and more about some lethal game of hide and seek.

(edit, grammar, spelling)

Nonamesbutmineub17_ESO · March 2015

Well from what I can tell after 1.6 dual wield was nerfed or two handed was buffed, now it's all about the two hand because rally creates a decent self heal mixed with blur. It works pretty well for me compared to dual weild in 1.6. Also makes your character a lot less squishy than with dual wield in medium armor. In PVE I am able now solo v10 group areas and dolmens with medium armor and two hand only.

AltusVenifus · March 2015

JTorus wrote: »

My NB build has been stamina from the start, been a rough road. Everything you've said is pretty spot on for the build, it's a difficult one to play. I might come out on top about 1/3 of any duels... and that's being optimistic. My heals are primarily Mark Target, Killer's blade, and pots. Two of those three are obviously doing me little good until my opponent is dead. You infer that this isn't an easy build, and you're right. You may want to re-think its play style.

Your build is the '***'s build'. You're not set up for a fair fight, you're not meant to be seen, your opponent should never know you're coming. 1v1 is possible, you usually just need to get the upper hand by remaining on the offensive. A majority of your time is spent in stealth while your pals engage and distract the other faction. You hang around on the outskirts, behind or ahead of the battle lines. You ambush in and help ensure that other 1v1 fight ends properly (with your faction member staying alive). You put blades and arrows in the other guy's back, not his chest. You get in, you hurt, and you get out. You're the reason people travel between keeps and outposts in groups.

And you're right, we're pretty easy to kill. The point isn't that you can sustain the damage, you have to make yourself hard to catch first. The build is less for dueling, and more about some lethal game of hide and seek.

(edit, grammar, spelling)

Thanks for the reply. Seems like a pretty significant liability for a style that has at best suspect escape methods. Maybe I need more practice, but I am able to disengage and escape about 1 out of 5 tries. Right now my strategy is to use fear, rapid maneuvers, then stealth 4 times, but I think it has more to do with when u start the escape because damn near everything breaks the invis.

JTorus · March 2015

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Seems like a pretty significant liability for a style that has at best suspect escape methods. Maybe I need more practice, but I am able to disengage and escape about 1 out of 5 tries. Right now my strategy is to use fear, rapid maneuvers, then stealth 4 times, but I think it has more to do with when u start the escape because damn near everything breaks the invis.

Yeah escaping is rough, sometimes you need to plan your escape before you even drop in. Shadow image, stealth, dodge-rolling and blind stupid luck all help. Don't get discouraged though, this is all for fun afterall.

NukeAllTheThings · March 2015

I agree w/ @JTorus. I run a stam NB and I just have to accept that I am going kill fast, die fast or run away fast and I have learned to enjoy it. I used reduced cost jewelry, Night's Silence 5 pc and dump CP into roll dodge cost reduction and level up Legerdemain to reduce sneak cost. If I can't take out my target fast or I have multiple targets on me I roll like a mad man. You would be amazed at how far you can roll and how fast you can move coming out of that roll w/ you bow equipped and popping cloak. When running away I never use cloak w/out bow rolling first.

kijima · March 2015

You could drop the DW and go for sword and board, or a 2hander. You'll live longer if you ditch the DW.

Fatalyis · March 2015

In the short time that I played Stamina on my NB after 1.6, I found DW to be somewhat lackluster when compared to 2H....so I ran DW/2H and just used Rally to boost my weapon damage on my DW bar. It seemed to do the trick for me.

1H+S is also pretty fun....more defensive in nature than offensive....but still fun to reflect projectiles (or absorb) and soak up some damage.

jelliedsoup · March 2015

All ive played is a stam nb build with dw/bow. 2h is too slow for me.

Healing skills are a waste of time imo on my build.

I use mirage, evade, shadow cloak roll dodge to get away. I find it much easier now than in the past to get away. Use the passive speed increase on bow after rolling. I am fully specced for stam tho. 27k on stam and 1250 recovery along with night silence for sneak speed.

i can usually safely snipe and dissappear if needed.

Pirhana7_ESO · March 2015

Blur + shades works very well. 20% evade + taking 15% less damage. if you go 2hand you can also put Momentium in there and heal for around 1000 every 2 seconds. if you use brawler you have a 1500 damage shield every couple attacks

All these things and blocking at teh right times lets you outlast alot of opponents 1v1

IcyDeadPeople · March 2015

AltusVenifus wrote: »

I have found it next to impossible to win a straight up fight with a stamina NB, medium armor, bow + dual wield against anyone other than a stamina NB. My current strategy is to run away... Is it possible to make a build that can stand and fight using this kind of setup?

Here is how I see it:
Pros:
- Highest burst DPS in the game
- Has escape tools (needs some serious luck)
- Highest sustain for stamina and magical regen (although loses DPS for this effect)
- Best CC in the game (fear)

CONS:
- DPS is terrible if required to do any defense. Offensive output is destroyed by Dodge roll, block, cc break...
- Cannot turtle and produce DPS
- No shields
- No heals (I don't have vigor, all magical heals are really silly for a stamina NB, example: refreshing path heals me for 328 per second which is 1 percent of my health for 11 secs).
- Currently DPS does not out produce turtling (I.E full out attacking a turtling character does not kill the character quickly enough, i.e. they hold the right mouse button and hit whatever magical skill and I will always die before they do...

I used to laugh at characters played like mine, because they are so easy to kill, but I'm wondering if anyone has found one that is viable in close quarters combat or dueling? I'm starting to think without viable heals / damage shields / stamina being absorbed for your defense it is a losing battle to try and win a dual.

I'm currently wearing all yellow gear with yellow enchants and speced fully in weapon power. My dueling background is pretty good (win about 60%) on the standard turtling magical builds, but it is official 0% with the build I currently am playing.

Just looking for feedback. Thanks

There are a few out there who have mastered this style. I've dueled Velcon's stamina NB quite a few times on both PTS and live server with various DK builds and so far I haven't come close to beating him.

Also watched him tank 8 or 9 enemy players for extended periods.
.

Grim13 · March 2015

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

I have found it next to impossible to win a straight up fight with a stamina NB, medium armor, bow + dual wield against anyone other than a stamina NB. My current strategy is to run away... Is it possible to make a build that can stand and fight using this kind of setup?

Here is how I see it:
Pros:
- Highest burst DPS in the game
- Has escape tools (needs some serious luck)
- Highest sustain for stamina and magical regen (although loses DPS for this effect)
- Best CC in the game (fear)

CONS:
- DPS is terrible if required to do any defense. Offensive output is destroyed by Dodge roll, block, cc break...
- Cannot turtle and produce DPS
- No shields
- No heals (I don't have vigor, all magical heals are really silly for a stamina NB, example: refreshing path heals me for 328 per second which is 1 percent of my health for 11 secs).
- Currently DPS does not out produce turtling (I.E full out attacking a turtling character does not kill the character quickly enough, i.e. they hold the right mouse button and hit whatever magical skill and I will always die before they do...

I used to laugh at characters played like mine, because they are so easy to kill, but I'm wondering if anyone has found one that is viable in close quarters combat or dueling? I'm starting to think without viable heals / damage shields / stamina being absorbed for your defense it is a losing battle to try and win a dual.

I'm currently wearing all yellow gear with yellow enchants and speced fully in weapon power. My dueling background is pretty good (win about 60%) on the standard turtling magical builds, but it is official 0% with the build I currently am playing.

Just looking for feedback. Thanks

There are a few out there who have mastered this style. I've dueled Velcon's stamina NB quite a few times on both PTS and live server with various DK builds and so far I haven't come close to beating him.

Also watched him tank 8 or 9 enemy players for extended periods.
.

Velconn knows his dueling stam details... he'd be a good person to ask, OP.

cwp303b14_ESO · March 2015

What weapons does Velconn use?

AltusVenifus · March 2015

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

I have found it next to impossible to win a straight up fight with a stamina NB, medium armor, bow + dual wield against anyone other than a stamina NB. My current strategy is to run away... Is it possible to make a build that can stand and fight using this kind of setup?

Here is how I see it:
Pros:
- Highest burst DPS in the game
- Has escape tools (needs some serious luck)
- Highest sustain for stamina and magical regen (although loses DPS for this effect)
- Best CC in the game (fear)

CONS:
- DPS is terrible if required to do any defense. Offensive output is destroyed by Dodge roll, block, cc break...
- Cannot turtle and produce DPS
- No shields
- No heals (I don't have vigor, all magical heals are really silly for a stamina NB, example: refreshing path heals me for 328 per second which is 1 percent of my health for 11 secs).
- Currently DPS does not out produce turtling (I.E full out attacking a turtling character does not kill the character quickly enough, i.e. they hold the right mouse button and hit whatever magical skill and I will always die before they do...

I used to laugh at characters played like mine, because they are so easy to kill, but I'm wondering if anyone has found one that is viable in close quarters combat or dueling? I'm starting to think without viable heals / damage shields / stamina being absorbed for your defense it is a losing battle to try and win a dual.

I'm currently wearing all yellow gear with yellow enchants and speced fully in weapon power. My dueling background is pretty good (win about 60%) on the standard turtling magical builds, but it is official 0% with the build I currently am playing.

Just looking for feedback. Thanks

There are a few out there who have mastered this style. I've dueled Velcon's stamina NB quite a few times on both PTS and live server with various DK builds and so far I haven't come close to beating him.

Also watched him tank 8 or 9 enemy players for extended periods.
.

Wondering how he does it... I can run a heavy or light blocking build that is pretty good, just not a stamina one.

Knootewoot · March 2015

I am a stamina build from beta up to now. Yes, I also once joined the masses and went magicka but dropped it pretty quick. I did went magicka once but with same setup as a stamina build but using class skills only (since they are magicka it was better).

But now with the stamina morphs I am back fully stamina. Just like most stamina based NB's, you die quick.. very quick. If you encounter another NB the winner is mostly the one who spotted the other first.

1 vs. 1 to another class where you did not get upper hand by a sneak attack is mostly death, or run away and hide.

But that's what I like. Although it is harder now thanks to the uber detection potions. Now I have to rely on the environment. I even escaped some angry DK just by hiding behind a tree or using the teleport shade.

Sadly stealth attacks do less damage now it seems. So if your opponent has awesomeheals your toast. I only have tri-pots (which I haven't made for a few weeks so im out) and I recently use Vigor. My Bow-bar is also my buff bar. I have harness magicka, grim focus, vigor and camohunter on it together with snipe. Sometimes I change camohunter with draining shot for fun, or shades.

On my DW bar I also ave the medium armor skill for 20% dodge chance (instead of Blur, but cannot give a good reason) or fear or the reapers mark.

I just like to troll people with shades, draining shot and cloak. If I die it is because I suck with my build in 1 on 1 and if I get careless.

pre 1.6 I could kill people in less then 2 seconds from stealth (camohunter+lethalarrow+ambush+concealed+imale or ultimate). Now I can't. So trololoing it is or I attack wounded enemies.

Due to lag which fails half my attacks I went to a less laggy server. Sadly every other stamina NB runs with detection pots and 2 handed. and those wrecking blows hurt my poor Breton.

I don't know how Velcon does it, tanking 8-9 people. I can so it also, but for 1 second I guess

Soulac · March 2015

Caltrops + Siphoning Attacks
Hold block and cast your heals / shields / whatever

AltusVenifus · March 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Caltrops + Siphoning Attacks
Hold block and cast your heals / shields / whatever

Yes sap tanks are pretty good at staying alive... not at winning. I think of them as crowd surfers.

Bane_of_Fringe · March 2015

Sort of skipping the posts.

I believe a NA player named Kikazaru plays a stamina NB, has some really serious dps. Currently the burst beats magicka NBs, or rather the dps as whole. As for dueling, you'd just have to try it with something like vigor I guess...it's a tough one. Might keep my eye on this thread to see if you turn up anything.

Soulac · March 2015

Burst Dps as NB is crazy, especially as Khajiit with over 70% crit.
I don't use my sneak bonus, but I still kill most enemys in one rotation.
Very funny

sSolutionSs · March 2015

I came back after they made this *** game Free minus the box fee, and its the same *** over and over. More unbalanced pvp and still no brackets if youre vr1 have fun grinding pve more to get close to max level.

The combat in pvp is clunky and confusing mostly all the time in every pvp interaction.

really what is there to do at lvl vr1? Grind more pve ? whoo hoo0

olsborg · March 2015

If you had vigor, that build would be ok, but without, im afraid you'd need rally.

AltusVenifus · March 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Burst Dps as NB is crazy, especially as Khajiit with over 70% crit.
I don't use my sneak bonus, but I still kill most enemys in one rotation.
Very funny

I agree that burst is good, but complete useless for a duel. I actually think burst needs to be higher with all the shield stacking nonsense that is going on, but that is not really relevant to a dueling stamina NB build.

Nivzruo_ESO · March 2015

2H is deff the meta right now for stam ganking. There is a sick NB duel spec out there but it is a magika destro staff, light armor one. Pretty much the opposite of ur current playstyle.

Soulac · March 2015

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Burst Dps as NB is crazy, especially as Khajiit with over 70% crit.
I don't use my sneak bonus, but I still kill most enemys in one rotation.
Very funny

I agree that burst is good, but complete useless for a duel. I actually think burst needs to be higher with all the shield stacking nonsense that is going on, but that is not really relevant to a dueling stamina NB build.

Well if you can achieve high burst at any time you want it is useful.
I think we both understand something different about burst.. but yes I agree that only burst is mostly useless.
As Stamina NB (Magicka too, but Harness is pain) you can achieve huge burst at any given time in a duel and if used right you kill an enemy in one rotation, that's what I meant.
Since Harness is useless there is barely Shieldstacking anyway or at least not many ppl are spamming Ward and Class Shields all the time (at the same time better said).

My build is especially made for duels and works perfectly, not that you think I meant the burst in easy ganking

AltusVenifus · March 2015

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

2H is deff the meta right now for stam ganking. There is a sick NB duel spec out there but it is a magika destro staff, light armor one. Pretty much the opposite of ur current playstyle.

I've run quite a few of the block casting NB builds... I guess if it has been guessed yet, my point is that a stamina NB build needs some work. It has exceptional burst, but can't win a fight. Which seems wrong to me.

Xandryah · March 2015

There are a few out there who have mastered this style. I've dueled Velcon's stamina NB quite a few times on both PTS and live server with various DK builds and so far I haven't come close to beating him.

Also watched him tank 8 or 9 enemy players for extended periods.
.[/quote]

If this is true, then this game is not finished at all. It's just unacceptable to read that a game allows one player to outlast more than 3 players alone... for extended periods.. even if newbies etc... to read stuff like this really makes me think that there is need of other people and lots of work to do... to pay real money and spend real time in a 1 v 9 -pvp-situation and lose or just see how the game allows this is frustrating...

Xandryah · March 2015

Xandryah wrote: »

There are a few out there who have mastered this style. I've dueled Velcon's stamina NB quite a few times on both PTS and live server with various DK builds and so far I haven't come close to beating him.

Also watched him tank 8 or 9 enemy players for extended periods.
.

If this is true, then this game is not finished at all. It's just unacceptable to read that a game allows one player to outlast more than 3 players alone... for extended periods.. even if newbies etc... to read stuff like this really makes me think that there is need of other people and lots of work to do... to pay real money and spend real time in a 1 v 9 -pvp-situation and lose or just see how the game allows this is frustrating...[/quote]

Also the math and logic does not work well, there are no numbers to rely on and i can't track my tries and builds, performance at all...math has been an issue here from XP to skill-balance etc.. Good Luck..

Soulac · March 2015

So you're saying that a good player shouldn't be able to tank or kill more than two Players?
If a couple of enemys are not able to take down a single player, they deserve to get killed, seriously.

A 1vX will work as long as you don't face enemys as good as yourself or against players who kinda know what they're doing in PvP.
It doesn't matter what you change or not, it will always be like that.

Docmandu · March 2015

IMHO this is why I don't like duelling.. it's too artificial.. you know who/what you are facing and some builds just destroy other builds. In the "real" world, ie just out there in cyrodiil, you don't know what/who you will be facing next.. no way to carefully plan your skill setup or the environment.

That said.. a buff shear skill would be nice.. to get rid of bubble wrapped targets ;P

Cthalion · March 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

IMHO this is why I don't like duelling.. it's too artificial.. you know who/what you are facing and some builds just destroy other builds. In the "real" world, ie just out there in cyrodiil, you don't know what/who you will be facing next.. no way to carefully plan your skill setup or the environment.

That said.. a buff shear skill would be nice.. to get rid of bubble wrapped targets ;P

This!

This is why I don't really care for duels. A guy can switch up specifically to fight a certain build. It's far more satisfying to be able to handle most fights without having to go switch your bars.