Why there is few discussion about templar ?

chongguang · March 2015

Hi, I have searched the forum for about two weeks and find fewer and fewer discussion about Templar right now , just two topics about QQ of the Jesus Beam, no one is talking about viable PVP or PVE (new ) builds, while NB ,DK , SOCs got many of builds discussion.
Eg, about 3+ topics are talking about NB Heavy Tank for both PVE and PVP .
Decent players post their stamina DK 2h builds
People are talking about sorcerers about their real states in this version for many posts as well
so Where are discussions about Templars? Is this class right too good that no needs to talk about or they are the lowest popular class that no one cares them ???

timidobserver · March 2015

There are Templar builds for tanking and dps, but most Templar are healers. There isn't a lot to say about healing

chongguang · March 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

There are Templar builds for tanking and dps, but most Templar are healers. There isn't a lot to say about healing

So this is for PVE i guess, what about PVP then ? Templar can still deal massive healing with decent dps , because of Beam right now ??

timidobserver · March 2015

chongguang wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

There are Templar builds for tanking and dps, but most Templar are healers. There isn't a lot to say about healing

So this is for PVE i guess, what about PVP then ? Templar can still deal massive healing with decent dps , because of Beam right now ??

There are alot of things that people can do in PvP on a Templar, but PvP builds tend not to get a lot of discussion on the official forums. Most people showcase builds either on youtube, reddit, tamriel foundry, or all three.

JLB · March 2015

No news, good news. There are, and always will be, things that can be polished but, what class doesn't? Templar Tanks can tank, Templars DPSers can DPS, and Templar Healers are still number 1. I would say Templars are in a good spot right now.

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

Quote from another topic:

Cinbri wrote: »

Let me just check current Templar pvp balance:
Jabs - now grants enemy CC immunity for free, so everyone ignore this skill. And not just that - change to passive direction attack, that means that for rooting templar impossible to use jabs.
Auro Javelin - increasing range damage is not working.
Charge - everyone know about it as "pain in the ass", nothing to add.
Blazing Spear - stun 1 target for 2 sec and granting CC immunity. When 30 men zerg attack this mean nothing to compare with sorc's streak.
Sun Shield - to say seriously has only 1 morph. Radiant Ward should be changed to sorc version of shield.
Reflective Light - sometimes don't deal damage to damage shields.
Eclipse - broken and not usable in pvp coz mechanic anyway.
Radiant Destruction - currently may cause unbreakable CC bug for templar.
Practiced Incantation and co. - nerf from 0.5 sec affect to 1 sec.
Honor the Dead - only 1 from 100 templars will use it, mana return still not stacking.
Healing Ritual - c'mon just remove this skill, nothing will save it.
Restoring Aura - not apply on caster but caster has 10% mana regen: u-s-e-l-e-s-s.
Restoring Focus - addition 8% heal from 15% previously. Now rune focus has 1 usable morph just like Sun Shield.
----
Should i say in summary that in compare with overpowered sorcs half of templar skills are not usable or broken in pvp?

My guess would be that either Templars are a dying race, or we are one of the least complaining classes in the game since we were never able to faceroll everyone (unlike certain other classes) from the beginning. Might have gotten used to that... idk, but there is so much wrong with the Templar that its saddening, yet no one seems to care.

1.6 screwed us over bigtime, and very little has been done to improve our situation since then.
@Cinbri hasn't mentioned some of the nerfs we got with 1.6, which aren't too gentle.

- Restoring aura Active effect: 80% Stamina and Health regen >20% Stamina and Health regen, which no longer stacks with other bonuses.
- Eclipse counts as a hard CC, which makes people able to break it and becomes unusable if someone has CC immunity.
- We lost our only AOE CC for Jesus beam.
- Our extra healing passive (Restoring Light> Mending) changed from high crit chance to a small percentage extra healing against low health targets.

A few non-Templar things that changed:
- Restoration staff healing passive Restoration master now only affects Restoration staff skills (Templar skills no longer profit from this).
- Dragonknights have gotten the Major Mending Buff (+30% healing done), this means that Dragonknights out-play the Templars when it comes to sustain healing. The only form of healing that is still better is the burst heal, but no Templar can sustain spamming that.

chongguang · March 2015

To the floor 6, i think all the classes got nerfs, we should not focus on these nerfs only without noticing buffs.

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

chongguang wrote: »

To the floor 6, i think all the classes got nerfs, we should not focus on these nerfs only without noticing buffs.

Then may i ask which buffs?
Besides the damage increase to Punctering strikes (and morphs) i don't remember any.
(And even then you talk about a damage increase with free CC imunity for the target)

I know every class has had some nerfs, but look at the list above. Out of the 18 skills each class has only 3 are NOT on that list, which should say a lot.

Khivas_Carrick · March 2015

Backlash is instant cast now and no longer overwrites itself so as many templars can use it as they want. It also has a pretty baller stamina option where the enemy's armor is reduced before they explode.

Biting Jabs is obscenely powerful for PvE use for both single target and aoe use and gives you 10% crit for 7 seconds after use and each hit can proc Burning Light, which also scales off whichever stat is higher now.

Piercing Spear passive now increases crit damage instead, which is pretty useful.

Dawn's Wrath got a number of upgrades, from giving the entire party a passive to spell crit when you use a DWrath ability, Vampire's Bane got a damage buff, and of course we have radiant destruction.

Our healing took a hit, but it was hardly destroyed as bad as people make it out to be, and in a shocking twist of fate, Healing Ritual is now an INSANELY good heal now if your healer knows what they're doing, and helps a ton in trials.

All in all Templars are in a good place despite still having some useless ass skills like Piecing Javelin and Toppling Charge. Amazing DPS, amazing heals, and amazing tanking.

I don't know what you're taking about with us getting screwed over, and for sure these days most templars are not healers lol

Khivas_Carrick · March 2015

Also I'll post my build tomorrow night when all my personal stuff is done away with, hopefully give you some insight and gain some myself

Cinbri · March 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I don't know what you're taking about with us getting screwed over, and for sure these days most templars are not healers lol

Noone saying that PvE Templars are bad. In 1.6 they became really good pve class. BUT i bought this game for PvP and in PvP HALF(!) of abilities are useless, and templar is the only class in game whos several abilities not just useless but even broken.
P.S. popular phrase nowdays - "ESO = Era of Sorcs Online", and everyone rerolling into sorcs, coz pvp sorcs was obscenely buffed (i not a sorc but i am seriuously doubt that sorc in full heavy armor can constantly streak half of Cyro map is balanced thing).

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Backlash is instant cast now and no longer overwrites itself so as many templars can use it as they want. It also has a pretty baller stamina option where the enemy's armor is reduced before they explode.

Biting Jabs is obscenely powerful for PvE use for both single target and aoe use and gives you 10% crit for 7 seconds after use and each hit can proc Burning Light, which also scales off whichever stat is higher now.

Piercing Spear passive now increases crit damage instead, which is pretty useful.

Dawn's Wrath got a number of upgrades, from giving the entire party a passive to spell crit when you use a DWrath ability, Vampire's Bane got a damage buff, and of course we have radiant destruction.

Our healing took a hit, but it was hardly destroyed as bad as people make it out to be, and in a shocking twist of fate, Healing Ritual is now an INSANELY good heal now if your healer knows what they're doing, and helps a ton in trials.

All in all Templars are in a good place despite still having some useless ass skills like Piecing Javelin and Toppling Charge. Amazing DPS, amazing heals, and amazing tanking.

I don't know what you're taking about with us getting screwed over, and for sure these days most templars are not healers lol

Backlash got instant cast (Only buff), the rest was a fix.

Biting jabs gets Crit chance, which you can also get from other skills... so it doesn't stack (useless).

Piercing spear... idk if this became better. we lost a lot of crit chance.

Dawns wrath spell crit is the same as the Biting jabs one: you already get it from another skill and doesn't stack (useless).
You get 5% extra damage from a passive, which is something at least.
Idk if we should be to happy about Radiant. Lots of complaining about it, not very useful during normal combat, we lost our only AOE cc for this.

Healing Ritual is indeed pretty decent atm, as it outheals Breath of life (although it has a bit longer casting time).
Insanely good however... is an overstatement.

Everything you call amazing is an overstatement.
The fact that most templars aren't healers anymore should say enough even though they have a complete skill tree dedicated to healer. Ill follow @Cinbri in this statement, there are other classes facerolling both PvP and PvE content without much problems. Although Templars got a bit better when it comes to PvE, i have yet to see anyone reroll as a Templar because of how valid they became after any update.

technohic · March 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Quote from another topic:

Cinbri wrote: »

Let me just check current Templar pvp balance:
Jabs - now grants enemy CC immunity for free, so everyone ignore this skill. And not just that - change to passive direction attack, that means that for rooting templar impossible to use jabs.
Auro Javelin - increasing range damage is not working.
Charge - everyone know about it as "pain in the ass", nothing to add.
Blazing Spear - stun 1 target for 2 sec and granting CC immunity. When 30 men zerg attack this mean nothing to compare with sorc's streak.
Sun Shield - to say seriously has only 1 morph. Radiant Ward should be changed to sorc version of shield.
Reflective Light - sometimes don't deal damage to damage shields.
Eclipse - broken and not usable in pvp coz mechanic anyway.
Radiant Destruction - currently may cause unbreakable CC bug for templar.
Practiced Incantation and co. - nerf from 0.5 sec affect to 1 sec.
Honor the Dead - only 1 from 100 templars will use it, mana return still not stacking.
Healing Ritual - c'mon just remove this skill, nothing will save it.
Restoring Aura - not apply on caster but caster has 10% mana regen: u-s-e-l-e-s-s.
Restoring Focus - addition 8% heal from 15% previously. Now rune focus has 1 usable morph just like Sun Shield.
----
Should i say in summary that in compare with overpowered sorcs half of templar skills are not usable or broken in pvp?

My guess would be that either Templars are a dying race, or we are one of the least complaining classes in the game since we were never able to faceroll everyone (unlike certain other classes) from the beginning. Might have gotten used to that... idk, but there is so much wrong with the Templar that its saddening, yet no one seems to care.

1.6 screwed us over bigtime, and very little has been done to improve our situation since then.
@Cinbri hasn't mentioned some of the nerfs we got with 1.6, which aren't too gentle.

- Restoring aura Active effect: 80% Stamina and Health regen >20% Stamina and Health regen, which no longer stacks with other bonuses.
- Eclipse counts as a hard CC, which makes people able to break it and becomes unusable if someone has CC immunity.
- We lost our only AOE CC for Jesus beam.
- Our extra healing passive (Restoring Light> Mending) changed from high crit chance to a small percentage extra healing against low health targets.

A few non-Templar things that changed:
- Restoration staff healing passive Restoration master now only affects Restoration staff skills (Templar skills no longer profit from this).
- Dragonknights have gotten the Major Mending Buff (+30% healing done), this means that Dragonknights out-play the Templars when it comes to sustain healing. The only form of healing that is still better is the burst heal, but no Templar can sustain spamming that.

You forgot the current

-self CC if you do manage to get eclipse on someone who casts. You can then do nothing until your target is free of eclipse

-Only gap closer with a GCD, but its really negligible compared to how often you get stuck in that animation completely up to 30 seconds or even a minute.

-Whining about sorc shields effectively nerfed Templar shields which are comparatively weaker.

Khivas_Carrick · March 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Backlash is instant cast now and no longer overwrites itself so as many templars can use it as they want. It also has a pretty baller stamina option where the enemy's armor is reduced before they explode.

Biting Jabs is obscenely powerful for PvE use for both single target and aoe use and gives you 10% crit for 7 seconds after use and each hit can proc Burning Light, which also scales off whichever stat is higher now.

Piercing Spear passive now increases crit damage instead, which is pretty useful.

Dawn's Wrath got a number of upgrades, from giving the entire party a passive to spell crit when you use a DWrath ability, Vampire's Bane got a damage buff, and of course we have radiant destruction.

Our healing took a hit, but it was hardly destroyed as bad as people make it out to be, and in a shocking twist of fate, Healing Ritual is now an INSANELY good heal now if your healer knows what they're doing, and helps a ton in trials.

All in all Templars are in a good place despite still having some useless ass skills like Piecing Javelin and Toppling Charge. Amazing DPS, amazing heals, and amazing tanking.

I don't know what you're taking about with us getting screwed over, and for sure these days most templars are not healers lol

Backlash got instant cast (Only buff), the rest was a fix.

Biting jabs gets Crit chance, which you can also get from other skills... so it doesn't stack (useless).

Piercing spear... idk if this became better. we lost a lot of crit chance.

Dawns wrath spell crit is the same as the Biting jabs one: you already get it from another skill and doesn't stack (useless).
You get 5% extra damage from a passive, which is something at least.
Idk if we should be to happy about Radiant. Lots of complaining about it, not very useful during normal combat, we lost our only AOE cc for this.

Healing Ritual is indeed pretty decent atm, as it outheals Breath of life (although it has a bit longer casting time).
Insanely good however... is an overstatement.

Everything you call amazing is an overstatement.
The fact that most templars aren't healers anymore should say enough even though they have a complete skill tree dedicated to healer. Ill follow @Cinbri in this statement, there are other classes facerolling both PvP and PvE content without much problems. Although Templars got a bit better when it comes to PvE, i have yet to see anyone reroll as a Templar because of how valid they became after any update.

-Backlash was ***, and it was not a fix, it was a buff because it was originally designed (like an idiot would I might add) to be usable only one or two at a time.

- Piercing Spear is better, way better. We get a lot of crit easily in this game but it doesn't help if we hit like wet noodles. Now we hit like hard pool noodles on a sun burnt skin.

- Ah but here's the thing you fail to recognize; Many people are forced into using things like Evil Hunter or whatever have you to get what they want, a Templar does not need to use such a luck based skill slot that's so random it's nearly a waste. Frankly Biting Jabs is easily one of the hardest hitting skills in the game and each hit can proc Burning Light, which is terrifying. On top of which while it's useless for CC against an enemy, it makes for a great Stamina Burner when they try to block, opening them up for a WB or some other attack (since WB hits like a god damn truck too), and of course is viable as hell for fighting Zergs.

- Radiant beats Flashes. Flashes was ok and all and in a PvP setting it was ok, but it wasn't an AoE CC, it didn't actually CC anybody. It was just a weird light based version of Blur or Evasion and frankly with how all the other skills are changed we're fine as is having a ranged execute that can't be reflected by a Dragon Knight or some yahoo with a shield. I don't know about you, but I love the fact that I can face melt people using a magicka skill as a stamina build. It's freaking lulzy.

- No, it's insanely good if you know what you're doing. Most healers in this game that I've seen don't quite fully know what they're doing and instead of waiting to see an ally actually hurt before using their precious resource, they just start spamming Healing Springs and use BoL when an ally get's low. BoL is the Oh-*** heal, so using it in that situation is good, but constantly just spamming heals is not. Healing Ritual and Lingering Ritual when used properly, especially in Trials, can make it so you may not ever even need BoL, especially if you got HoTs galore roaming about.

- The fact that most Templars aren't healers are because a lot of Templars rolled the class aiming to be a Paladin or Sun Mage and found themselves to be horribly gypped by the mechanics system in place that pigeonholed them into healing while all the other classes got to do all 3 roles in a useful and proper way. Fact is you don't want to admit or can't seem to see this for whatever reason, but rest assured that is the case here in this scenario. Players get to be free to choose for their own class again instead of having their entire class' role chosen for them.

- Our ultimates got BAMF'd the hell out big time, except Healing Ritual. That I think personally got crapped on pretty nicely by ZoS, but I don't heal too often these days so I don't worry too much about it.

- Open your eyes and read guild chats lol I've seen at least 10 people honestly reroll Templar and even more at least begin to level up the one they had ages ago but rerolled to another class due to how not-viable they were for DPS or Tanking after 1.6 dropped.

As for PvP, I really don't know what you're smoking because the most hated classes to fight against right now are Sorcs due to smart players being smart and Templars for a myriad of reasons it seems. Everywhere I go I see one Templar getting bitched out because he was able to kill 1-3 people with quick and relative ease. Others are at how one DK, the former top dog, get face melted by 3 Templars because he's not used to them being so god damn strong now with Jesus Beam and a combo of class and 2H skills.

I mean ***, just the other day I say a vr12 NB in leather and medium get rocked to death in seconds by me. All I did was Stealth hit him with a Snipe and lit him up with PotL and shot a few poison arrows and watched, and he exploded. That easy, so easy I made another NB nearby blush.

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Backlash is instant cast now and no longer overwrites itself so as many templars can use it as they want. It also has a pretty baller stamina option where the enemy's armor is reduced before they explode.

Biting Jabs is obscenely powerful for PvE use for both single target and aoe use and gives you 10% crit for 7 seconds after use and each hit can proc Burning Light, which also scales off whichever stat is higher now.

Piercing Spear passive now increases crit damage instead, which is pretty useful.

Dawn's Wrath got a number of upgrades, from giving the entire party a passive to spell crit when you use a DWrath ability, Vampire's Bane got a damage buff, and of course we have radiant destruction.

Our healing took a hit, but it was hardly destroyed as bad as people make it out to be, and in a shocking twist of fate, Healing Ritual is now an INSANELY good heal now if your healer knows what they're doing, and helps a ton in trials.

All in all Templars are in a good place despite still having some useless ass skills like Piecing Javelin and Toppling Charge. Amazing DPS, amazing heals, and amazing tanking.

I don't know what you're taking about with us getting screwed over, and for sure these days most templars are not healers lol

Backlash got instant cast (Only buff), the rest was a fix.

Biting jabs gets Crit chance, which you can also get from other skills... so it doesn't stack (useless).

Piercing spear... idk if this became better. we lost a lot of crit chance.

Dawns wrath spell crit is the same as the Biting jabs one: you already get it from another skill and doesn't stack (useless).
You get 5% extra damage from a passive, which is something at least.
Idk if we should be to happy about Radiant. Lots of complaining about it, not very useful during normal combat, we lost our only AOE cc for this.

Healing Ritual is indeed pretty decent atm, as it outheals Breath of life (although it has a bit longer casting time).
Insanely good however... is an overstatement.

Everything you call amazing is an overstatement.
The fact that most templars aren't healers anymore should say enough even though they have a complete skill tree dedicated to healer. Ill follow @Cinbri in this statement, there are other classes facerolling both PvP and PvE content without much problems. Although Templars got a bit better when it comes to PvE, i have yet to see anyone reroll as a Templar because of how valid they became after any update.

-Backlash was ***, and it was not a fix, it was a buff because it was originally designed (like an idiot would I might add) to be usable only one or two at a time.

- Piercing Spear is better, way better. We get a lot of crit easily in this game but it doesn't help if we hit like wet noodles. Now we hit like hard pool noodles on a sun burnt skin.

- Ah but here's the thing you fail to recognize; Many people are forced into using things like Evil Hunter or whatever have you to get what they want, a Templar does not need to use such a luck based skill slot that's so random it's nearly a waste. Frankly Biting Jabs is easily one of the hardest hitting skills in the game and each hit can proc Burning Light, which is terrifying. On top of which while it's useless for CC against an enemy, it makes for a great Stamina Burner when they try to block, opening them up for a WB or some other attack (since WB hits like a god damn truck too), and of course is viable as hell for fighting Zergs.

- Radiant beats Flashes. Flashes was ok and all and in a PvP setting it was ok, but it wasn't an AoE CC, it didn't actually CC anybody. It was just a weird light based version of Blur or Evasion and frankly with how all the other skills are changed we're fine as is having a ranged execute that can't be reflected by a Dragon Knight or some yahoo with a shield. I don't know about you, but I love the fact that I can face melt people using a magicka skill as a stamina build. It's freaking lulzy.

- No, it's insanely good if you know what you're doing. Most healers in this game that I've seen don't quite fully know what they're doing and instead of waiting to see an ally actually hurt before using their precious resource, they just start spamming Healing Springs and use BoL when an ally get's low. BoL is the Oh-*** heal, so using it in that situation is good, but constantly just spamming heals is not. Healing Ritual and Lingering Ritual when used properly, especially in Trials, can make it so you may not ever even need BoL, especially if you got HoTs galore roaming about.

- The fact that most Templars aren't healers are because a lot of Templars rolled the class aiming to be a Paladin or Sun Mage and found themselves to be horribly gypped by the mechanics system in place that pigeonholed them into healing while all the other classes got to do all 3 roles in a useful and proper way. Fact is you don't want to admit or can't seem to see this for whatever reason, but rest assured that is the case here in this scenario. Players get to be free to choose for their own class again instead of having their entire class' role chosen for them.

- Our ultimates got BAMF'd the hell out big time, except Healing Ritual. That I think personally got crapped on pretty nicely by ZoS, but I don't heal too often these days so I don't worry too much about it.

- Open your eyes and read guild chats lol I've seen at least 10 people honestly reroll Templar and even more at least begin to level up the one they had ages ago but rerolled to another class due to how not-viable they were for DPS or Tanking after 1.6 dropped.

As for PvP, I really don't know what you're smoking because the most hated classes to fight against right now are Sorcs due to smart players being smart and Templars for a myriad of reasons it seems. Everywhere I go I see one Templar getting bitched out because he was able to kill 1-3 people with quick and relative ease. Others are at how one DK, the former top dog, get face melted by 3 Templars because he's not used to them being so god damn strong now with Jesus Beam and a combo of class and 2H skills.

I mean ***, just the other day I say a vr12 NB in leather and medium get rocked to death in seconds by me. All I did was Stealth hit him with a Snipe and lit him up with PotL and shot a few poison arrows and watched, and he exploded. That easy, so easy I made another NB nearby blush.

It was quite a read, and on some points i have to agree with you, while some made gave me a good laugh.

For backlash... be it a bugfix or an intended change doesn't matter. Close after launch they could have seen that people used that skill a whole lot (there were a lot of complaints), yet never made any trouble in fixing it. That they changed something now (after almost a year) makes it a fix, since we can finally use this skill now.

Had no complaint about the damage of Puncturing strikes (which i think you meant), only with the CC.
That it might be good as damage or Stamina burner doesn't matter. Using it will make a lot of CC unusable for everyone (including the Templar). If i fight some uber mage i would like to use jabs and Eclipse together, jet because of how Jabs works i won't ever be able to use Eclipse (or stun, knockdown or any other form of cc).

Personally i don't find Radiant that spectaculair. Only when your enemy's life is within execute range it becomes useful. Its normal damage stinks, and you are very vulnerable when using it. But, that is my personal experience.
I found Flashes a lot more useful, especially in PvP since it was one of the few Zerk Counters in the game. In PvE it was very useful for a Tank because it greatly weakened the more dangerous enemies.

For Healing Ritual... I never said its bad, though it is less convenient when you take in mind the cost and that it has no magicka return, unlike springs.
I know what i'm doing with it, as it is my personal healing skill favorite. Most people i use it on are idiots however, and don't seem to notice that the area on the ground (Cleansing Ritual) marks my healing range. I Agree that i don't need BoL for normal healing, which made me switch to Honor the Dead (for those idiots that step out of my range and complain that they are dying).

The ultimates did get some changes (some in a good way, some in a bad say), i agree with that.
Radial Sweep got a strange new DoT effect and Nova a small cost reduction, no problems with that. Rite of Passage however got a huge nerf (as a main healer, i am bothered by this), and it now heals only half it did before the nerf.
(Percentage wise it doesn't seem to have been boosted, yet if only fires half the times it did before.)

Most people that "rerolled" as a Templar was because of the rumor that Radiant Destruction was some ass-kicking uber skill, and people wanted the change was nothing but a FOTM re-roll. The we aren't even 2 weeks into this update and those FOTM re-rollers are already changing towards the Sorcerer, as their changes were a bit more subtle (yet a lot more powerful) compared to the Templar ones. You could almost say that they were "blinded by Radiant Destruction" (intended pun).

As for your pvp encounter comment.
You shot him with Snipe and poison arrows, which killed him. That you happen to use a Templar skill doesn't make Templars OP. Thats like saying Everyone is OP because they have access to the 2h Skill tree.
Try killing someone with Templar skills only. Ill tell you in advance, it is possible, but you really need to jump someone and hope they are alone.

Cinbri · March 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

As for PvP, I really don't know what you're smoking because the most hated classes to fight against right now are Sorcs due to smart players being smart and Templars for a myriad of reasons it seems.

You mean myriad of broken templar skills? It is just impossible to rock with half broken skills. I really wanna see someone who rolled from sorc to templar in 1.6.
Let's talk about jabs again, since it is most broken skill. Does anyone seriously thinking that granting enemy CC immunity after 1 sec stun is worth, i doubt. And as i said previously CC just half of problem, another half is changed attack direction. Why noone talking about this huge problem? After 1.6 if nb will use class root or sorc will use class roots or dk will use class roots or templar will use bombard skill and they will fight in melee it will be impossible for templar to land jabs on them, means it impossible to fight in magicka melee style. It is already like trolling rooting melee magicka templars and running round them.

Khivas_Carrick · March 2015

You guys are putting way too much stock in CC immunity. One CC of any class or skill grants the Immunity if they do a break or are simply already immune from another skill. What then? Can't exactly spam the CC again can you?

And once again I am well aware that some of our class skills are downright useless, but unlike before where it was all but two, now it's just the two or three (depending on who you ask. I'm more of the "It's *** half, Jack" type of guy) and I will be the first to tell you I got my ass kicked by another Templar who was magicka using Dark Flare and Vampire's Bane with Radiant Oppression. I got beat so bad I actually felt bad for a bit as I tried to find his ass again to kill, so I think our class skills on that front are just fine.

As for Stamina class skills, ehhh you're right, they're not perfect for trying to exclusively use them, but to be fair, nobody's class skills are perfect to use without an attached weapon skill, and this doubly goes for Stamina builds because the goal behind being Stamina Based is to use Weapons and their accompanying skills. As for Magicka, that kinda means the same as your staff should be your go-to, but it varies a bit from class to class.

The point remains though, Templars need love on some skills but it's not the biggest problem in the world, hell it's minor at best and I promise you Templars will tear you a new one with relative ease if they know what they're doing in PvP and PvE.

With that, I've said my piece, I'll be bowing out of this thread because you two have your minds heavily made up.

Fizzlewizzle · March 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You guys are putting way too much stock in CC immunity. One CC of any class or skill grants the Immunity if they do a break or are simply already immune from another skill. What then? Can't exactly spam the CC again can you?

And once again I am well aware that some of our class skills are downright useless, but unlike before where it was all but two, now it's just the two or three (depending on who you ask. I'm more of the "It's *** half, Jack" type of guy) and I will be the first to tell you I got my ass kicked by another Templar who was magicka using Dark Flare and Vampire's Bane with Radiant Oppression. I got beat so bad I actually felt bad for a bit as I tried to find his ass again to kill, so I think our class skills on that front are just fine.

As for Stamina class skills, ehhh you're right, they're not perfect for trying to exclusively use them, but to be fair, nobody's class skills are perfect to use without an attached weapon skill, and this doubly goes for Stamina builds because the goal behind being Stamina Based is to use Weapons and their accompanying skills. As for Magicka, that kinda means the same as your staff should be your go-to, but it varies a bit from class to class.

The point remains though, Templars need love on some skills but it's not the biggest problem in the world, hell it's minor at best and I promise you Templars will tear you a new one with relative ease if they know what they're doing in PvP and PvE.

With that, I've said my piece, I'll be bowing out of this thread because you two have your minds heavily made up.

For me personally that CC immunity is a huge drawback, especially if you take in mind that some of our skills (Eclipse) don't deal any damage or root the enemy in any way (the only downside they have is when they attack with a 1v1 magic skill) yet you can't use it in PvP or PvE because one of your best DPS options gives CC immunity to every enemy it hits.

I have managed to kill people myself with a mix of Dark Flare and Radiant Destruction, but such a tactic doesn't work against more experienced fighters or in Duels (that that the second is a common phenomenon). Unless you get someone by surprise it will most likely fail.

I agree with you that templar can fight if they know what they are doing, but it doesn't change the fact that there are quite a lot of broken/ unusable skills. It is also true that i have made up my mind, and little someone says will change that, but as someone who has played only as a Templar since release i think that i know which skills have problems and which work okey.

Cinbri · March 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You guys are putting way too much stock in CC immunity. One CC of any class or skill grants the Immunity if they do a break or are simply already immune from another skill. What then? Can't exactly spam the CC again can you?

Ok i get your opinion - have a skill that grants enemy CC imunity for free and impossibilty to use it in melee coz roots is normal for you. It is really nothing to discuss with you now.

Zsymon · March 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You guys are putting way too much stock in CC immunity. One CC of any class or skill grants the Immunity if they do a break or are simply already immune from another skill. What then? Can't exactly spam the CC again can you?

Ok i get your opinion - have a skill that grants enemy CC imunity for free and impossibilty to use it in melee coz roots is normal for you. It is really nothing to discuss with you now.

No one can hit a target behind them while rooted, that's the whole idea of Talons + Whip. If you're rooted then you can't hit a target that's to the sides or back, no matter what class you are.

At least that's how I experienced it, I might be wrong.

Khivas_Carrick · March 2015

Been a Templar since Beta too bud, and I'm not disagreeing with you that there are a load of skills that need a whole lotta work, but I will sure hell disagree with the sentiment that people think Templars are bad at PvP or that a majority of us are now healers.

likewow777 · March 2015

@chongguang

Hey OP, this is pretty much why there's isn't discussion about the Templar. It turns into a two sided argument with some people loving the changes and others hating them. And I mean no offense either, because I also think various skills need fixing. But we don't seem to get any attention from ZOS, so it's like my algebra teacher taught me, "There's no solution."

It seemed like you wanted a Templar build, I think, so below I've provided mine. This is endgame PvE based, so if you're starting out or want a PvP build, tweaking will be necessary.

Bar 1: Tanking

Pierce Armor
Structured Entropy
Blazing Shield
Channeled Focus
Repentance

Ultimate - Empowering Sweep

The reasons for the above are fairly straight-forward.

-Pierce Armor to taunt whatever I need to.
-Structured Entropy gives back a small health trickle, boosts Spell Damage, and passively increases max health.
-Blazing Shield is my protection. It does a small amount of damage, relatively speaking, but I'm not trying to take down everything with it. It gives me time to think, to look around, and to reassess anything I need to.
-Channeled Focus is my armor buff, plus it got a great boost and now gives back a good chunk of magicka and is SUPER cheap to cast. I keep it up always.
-Repentance gives me and my group health/stamina, at no spell/stam cost, and passively boosts all regen. Radiant Aura got a nerf, so I go with this.
-Empowering Sweep costs 72 ultimate, for me, and reduces damage done to me by a ton. It just gets stronger the more enemies are around, and it has a very much appreciated DoT.

Bar 2: Healing/Utility

Inner Rage/Radiant Destruction
Cleansing Ritual
Combat Prayer/Force Siphon
Healing Springs
Breath of Life

Ultimate - Meteor/Remembrance

This bar changes a LOT, depending on what I need. Solo play, it doesn't have as many healing spells, just a couple, and is used mainly for utility. When tanking, I use Inner Rage to range taunt and help my group. As a healer, the spells kind of speak for themselves.

-Radiant Destruction is on there as a healer for the execute (everyone should do damage in a group).
-Cleansing Ritual should be down on the battleground always. It heals constantly, and one of the Templar passives boosts healing by 30% as long as players are in the circle.
-Healing Springs and Combat Prayer keep people alive normally.
-Breath of Life is the oh **** heal.
-Meteor is my main ultimate, since it's a beast of a hard hitter.
-Remembrance is only for those really hard fights.

Gear/Attributes:

5 piece Armor of the Seducer
4 piece Alessia's Bulwark
3 piece Grace of the Ancients (with the healing staff it's 3 pieces, otherwise only 2)

With that, my stats are roughly the following.

Health - 28k
Magicka - 18k
Stamina - 14k
Armor/SR - ~21k (over 26k with the Channeled Focus buff)

All values given are with tri-stat food

My gear is still in the works, mainly because of the changes in 1.6. I still run with a 5 piece Seducer set because of the many magicka based abilities I use. Even when tanking, I have the time and magicka regen to off-heal if I really have to. I need to swap out Alessia's Bulwark for Hist Bark, though. Initially I went with Alessia's for the extra armor buffs, but 5 piece Hist gives 18% dodge chance. Of course, doing that means I lose the spell reduction of Seducer. Like I said, it's in the works and I need to reassess and test various builds.

Anyway, hopefully that helps someone looking for a Templar build, you or anyone else searching the forums. To be fair, I've posted the above information before, but I'll post it 10,000 more times if it means aspiring Templars can find it.

chongguang · March 2015

likewow777 wrote: »

@chongguang

Hey OP, this is pretty much why there's isn't discussion about the Templar. It turns into a two sided argument with some people loving the changes and others hating them. And I mean no offense either, because I also think various skills need fixing. But we don't seem to get any attention from ZOS, so it's like my algebra teacher taught me, "There's no solution."

It seemed like you wanted a Templar build, I think, so below I've provided mine. This is endgame PvE based, so if you're starting out or want a PvP build, tweaking will be necessary.

Bar 1: Tanking

Pierce Armor
Structured Entropy
Blazing Shield
Channeled Focus
Repentance

Ultimate - Empowering Sweep

The reasons for the above are fairly straight-forward.

-Pierce Armor to taunt whatever I need to.
-Structured Entropy gives back a small health trickle, boosts Spell Damage, and passively increases max health.
-Blazing Shield is my protection. It does a small amount of damage, relatively speaking, but I'm not trying to take down everything with it. It gives me time to think, to look around, and to reassess anything I need to.
-Channeled Focus is my armor buff, plus it got a great boost and now gives back a good chunk of magicka and is SUPER cheap to cast. I keep it up always.
-Repentance gives me and my group health/stamina, at no spell/stam cost, and passively boosts all regen. Radiant Aura got a nerf, so I go with this.
-Empowering Sweep costs 72 ultimate, for me, and reduces damage done to me by a ton. It just gets stronger the more enemies are around, and it has a very much appreciated DoT.

Bar 2: Healing/Utility

Inner Rage/Radiant Destruction
Cleansing Ritual
Combat Prayer/Force Siphon
Healing Springs
Breath of Life

Ultimate - Meteor/Remembrance

This bar changes a LOT, depending on what I need. Solo play, it doesn't have as many healing spells, just a couple, and is used mainly for utility. When tanking, I use Inner Rage to range taunt and help my group. As a healer, the spells kind of speak for themselves.

-Radiant Destruction is on there as a healer for the execute (everyone should do damage in a group).
-Cleansing Ritual should be down on the battleground always. It heals constantly, and one of the Templar passives boosts healing by 30% as long as players are in the circle.
-Healing Springs and Combat Prayer keep people alive normally.
-Breath of Life is the oh **** heal.
-Meteor is my main ultimate, since it's a beast of a hard hitter.
-Remembrance is only for those really hard fights.

Gear/Attributes:

5 piece Armor of the Seducer
4 piece Alessia's Bulwark
3 piece Grace of the Ancients (with the healing staff it's 3 pieces, otherwise only 2)

With that, my stats are roughly the following.

Health - 28k
Magicka - 18k
Stamina - 14k
Armor/SR - ~21k (over 26k with the Channeled Focus buff)

All values given are with tri-stat food

My gear is still in the works, mainly because of the changes in 1.6. I still run with a 5 piece Seducer set because of the many magicka based abilities I use. Even when tanking, I have the time and magicka regen to off-heal if I really have to. I need to swap out Alessia's Bulwark for Hist Bark, though. Initially I went with Alessia's for the extra armor buffs, but 5 piece Hist gives 18% dodge chance. Of course, doing that means I lose the spell reduction of Seducer. Like I said, it's in the works and I need to reassess and test various builds.

Anyway, hopefully that helps someone looking for a Templar build, you or anyone else searching the forums. To be fair, I've posted the above information before, but I'll post it 10,000 more times if it means aspiring Templars can find it.

Thanks so much for posting your build , basically i create this post for purpose of getting current state of Templar. Furthermore , i do feel curious about lack of Templar discussion as well. I would like to see more opinions about Templar here

Khivas_Carrick · March 2015

This is something I submitted to the Battlemaster's Corner not too long ago, but I find it's one viable as hell build for PvE and semi useful in PvP half the time and fully useful with a tweak or two.

“Through Service, We Find Purpose.”

Many who worship and preach the word of the Divines dwell as Priests within the safety of church walls or travel in the escort of a companion or caravan, as such to preach their word in cities and villages with relative comfort. Some even strap on heavy armor and wield massive weapons and go on to fight on the front lines as Crusaders and Holy Warriors, Knight Templars who would seek to inspire their comrades.

Then come those who devote themselves to traveling the word as a warrior, not a knight. Spreading the word through action as a cleric, but not a priest or preacher. A walker of the shadows, but not a thief or assassin. These Templars are unique in their approach to serving the Light, for it is in their hands that are as open minded as Stendarr’s Mercy, but equally as sharp as Meridia’s Sword, who train and live their lives with one goal in mind: Guard the living world of Nirn against the Darkness of the Undead and Evil Daedra.

These are the Aedric Wardens, and whether they worship the Divines directly, or serve the goodness of the Holy Light through Daedric Princes of benevolent intentions, these men and women are Tamriel’s first line of defense against the plagues of darkness and evil that seek to consume her as they watch over the lands of Man and Mer alike.

An Aedric Warden is a DPS build that serves as a multi-role fighter would in a battle but for a more destructive purpose, allowing for both Melee and Ranged damage dealing with a spot of support here and there through uses of Dawn’s Wrath and Aedric Spear skills.

The build in question here relies on the user being any Stamina Friendly Race, such as Redguard or Bosmer, and in my case I am an Imperial, and the specifics are as follows:

45 Health and 17 Stamina for attribute allocations. Mind you this is my current set up and other races will change and shift on this depending on what they want or how they’re built.

6 Medium Armor pieces, 1 Heavy is what I currently use. If possible, try to obtain a Light Armor Undaunted armor piece to obtain the 5/1/1 set-up instead. Each piece should have Infused on the big three (3) if possible (chest, head, legs), and Divines on the rest.

A Two-Handed Sword (Call him Matutinus) and Bow (Call her Vidaume) are my primary tools for the job. Two-Handed Mace’s also work very well in this build. Matutinus has the Sharpened trait on it, and Vidaume possess the Precise trait.

The Primary set of this is this build is Hunding’s Rage, using five (5) pieces to obtain what is possibly the best DIY Set Bonus in the game for a Melee User, followed by two (2) pieces of the Engine Guardian set to help (albeit randomly) with regeneration of Stamina when it does proc (it procs often), two (2) pieces of The Two-Fanged Snaked and Shadow Walker sets each, both for the Weapon Damage buff.

The preferred Mundus Stone to use for me is the Warrior, all to add more stable but fearsome weapon damage.

Champion Points are spent on passives that increase Physical Damage and Stamina regeneration for Thief and Mage Constellations, and any of the Warrior can be chosen at the user’s discretion.

Now onto the actual Loadouts!

Primary Loadout - Melee DPS - Two-Handed Weapon -

First Skill Slot - Puncturing Strikes (Biting Jabs Morph) - A great opening to any aggressive negotiation, Biting Jabs serves to provide me with both a powerful Single Target and AoE attack, as well as buffing me with a passive 10% crit, on top of the Piercing Spear passive to give me a bonus to my Crit Damage, and each hit can proc Burning Light.

Second Skill Slot - Momentum (Rally Morph) - Invoking the power of the Divines into my own personal strength, Rally provides me with a much needed buff to my raw Weapon Damage and in turn Overall DPS, as well as a very potent and strong self heal, allowing me to survive a great many danger I face.

Third Skill Slot - Reverse Slash (Reverse Slice Morph) - When an enemy get’s low enough in health, it’s high time I force them to lie down and bleed, and any of their friends if they’re around as well. Damage cap is the same as most if not all Executes, but this one comes attached with a handy dandy AoE attack that can and has before in the past wiped out multiple enemies all at once.

Fourth Skill Slot - Backlash (Power Of The Light Morph) - Calling down a ray of the mighty sun’s energy, I can highlight and weaken an enemy for attack, lowering their armor and in a way turning them into a walking six (6) second time bomb. Can’t beat that now can ya?

Fifth Skill Slot - Uppercut (Wrecking Blow Morph) - The bread and butter of my attacking method, using Wrecking Blow and weaving it with Heavy Attacks constantly to help maintain my Stamina longer and deal a vicious amount of damage to an enemy.

Ultimate - Dawnbreaker (Flawless Dawnbreaker Morph) - A sort of gift from Meridia, my sword can channel her energies to summon Dawnbreaker, creating a massive wave of destruction in front of me, and more importantly, simply having the Ultimate equipped allows me to have a bonus to my Weapon Damage, whose purpose should be self-evident in this case.

Secondary Loadout - Ranged DPS - Bow and Arrow -

First Skill Slot - Spear Shards (Blazing Spear Morph) - This skill exists for two purposes, but latter far more important than the former; First, it’s an attack that can proc Burning Light and it does a modest amount of single target and AoE damage. Second, and most important, it adds a Resource Manager for your Tank, which I cannot stress the importance of enough. It also serves to aid either the healer (who if a Templar should be throwing shards or using Repentance regularly) in bolstering your party or melee DPS support should you not have a Templar Healer with you.

Second Skill Slot - Evil Hunter - Anatomy and magical study of dark creatures, whether you are one yourself or just an avid hunter of them, often time proves very useful in hunting your enemies down. In this case, A touch of “divine” magic goes a long way, and for this my bow Vidaume is made all the more deadly by the free 10% crit rating and chance to both restore Stamina and blast an enemy in the face for magic damage.

Third Skill Slot - Poison Arrow ( Poison Injection Morph) - Arrows? Awesome. Poison? Useful to nearly anybody. Poisoned Arrows? Logical next step. Arrows that have an injection system to give you a shot of deadly poison? Genius thinking. Poison Injection is a ranged DoT ability that serves to be exactly that, and after the 50% mark of an enemy’s HP, the tick that the skill does grows exponentially, causing massive damage.

Fourth Skill Slot - Radiant Destruction (Radian Oppression Morph) - Having a ranged execute for when you’re shooting your enemy at ranged certainly has it’s uses, and as such Radiant Oppression makes for a very powerful attack even as a Stamina user. Not much else to say here really.

Fifth Skill Slot - Snipe (Focused Aim Morph) - Attacking from afar can be extremely dangerous. Ok I lied, it’s not very dangerous. In fact it can be downright unfair for the enemy, but that’s ok, because it’s your enemy. Focused Aim serves to embody this idea, allowing you to attack from afar with a hard hitting ability that also serves to lower the enemy’s armor. Stand back and let them arrows fly, young archer.

Ultimate - Nova (Solar Prison Morph) - Unlike the melee loadout, there isn’t so much of a dire need for high weapon damage, as the Bow portion of this build is more for support than actual frontline combat. That said, Solar Prison makes for an exceptionally powerful Ultimate to use and with this particular morph you get both high AoE damage, an incredible Synergy, and 30% damage reduction to your group who stands in it. It’s almost...Perfect.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

All the good class/build discussions are on the Tamriel Foundry forums. Try there.

Cinbri · March 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

No one can hit a target behind them while rooted, that's the whole idea of Talons + Whip. If you're rooted then you can't hit a target that's to the sides or back, no matter what class you are.

At least that's how I experienced it, I might be wrong.

Roots for rooting (immobilize) or stun-like affect, you can rotate point of view and activate skill on chosed target anywhere round you. In 1.5 you could rotate yor templar point of view and jabs will land on this direction since it is aoe. In 1.6 however jabs attack direction rooting to your templar's face direction, you won't hit anything round you, only in front, and thats what nbs, dks, sorcs are using vs magicka melee templar. You can see mechanic change without roots just look behing you and activate jabs - instead of rotate 180 and hit your cursor target, you will attack screen.
All i heared is theorycrafting

Cinbri wrote: »

Let me just check current Templar pvp balance:
Jabs - now grants enemy CC immunity for free, so everyone ignore this skill. And not just that - change to passive direction attack, that means that for rooting templar impossible to use jabs.
Auroa Javelin - increasing range damage is not working.
Charge - everyone know about it as "pain in the ass", nothing to add.
Backlash - sometimes activation still has cast time. O_o
Blazing Spear - stun 1 target for 2 sec and granting CC immunity. When 30 men zerg attack this mean nothing to compare with sorc's streak.
Sun Shield - to say seriously has only 1 morph. Radiant Ward should be changed to sorc version of shield.
Reflective Light - sometimes don't deal damage to damage shields.
Eclipse - broken and not usable in pvp coz mechanic anyway.
Radiant Destruction - currently may cause unbreakable CC bug for templar.
Practiced Incantation and co. - nerf from 0.5 sec affect to 1 sec.
Honor the Dead - only 1 from 100 templars will use it, mana return still not stacking.
Healing Ritual - c'mon just remove this skill, nothing will save it.
Restoring Aura - not apply on caster but caster has 10% mana regen: u-s-e-l-e-s-s.
Restoring Focus - addiion 8% heal from 15% previously. Now rune focus has 1 usable morph just like Sun Shield.
----
Should i say in summary that in compare with overpowered sorcs half of templar skills are not usable or broken in pvp?

<--and this is reality. When i hearing that broken skills (like Aurora Javelin, Backlash, Charge, Reflective Light, RD and Eclipse ) shouldn't be fixed, i can't agree.

Mumyo · March 2015

chongguang wrote: »

Hi, I have searched the forum for about two weeks and find fewer and fewer discussion about Templar right now , just two topics about QQ of the Jesus Beam, no one is talking about viable PVP or PVE (new ) builds, while NB ,DK , SOCs got many of builds discussion.
Eg, about 3+ topics are talking about NB Heavy Tank for both PVE and PVP .
Decent players post their stamina DK 2h builds
People are talking about sorcerers about their real states in this version for many posts as well
so Where are discussions about Templars? Is this class right too good that no needs to talk about or they are the lowest popular class that no one cares them ???

low population paired with mostly pve healers and supporters that dont know their strength or weakness thx to their groupmembers.

I play Templar since beta and i think the patch pretty much screwed us!