ESO 1.6/ WEIRD DAMAGE glitch??!

BOLTERITY · March 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgbO_whAPII

Tankqull · March 2015

block + vamp dmg reduction = nearly no dmg done by sorc abilities...
http://i.imgur.com/ifoh7t9.png

as all those mitigations stack on each other - it would have been even more horrible if he would have used s&b - as sorc attacks nearly drain no stamina when beeing blocked.

every time your bow add was in range his healtbar droped significant. but sorcspells do no dmg on blocking chars.

Xsorus · March 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

block + vamp dmg reduction = nearly no dmg done by sorc abilities...
http://i.imgur.com/ifoh7t9.png

as all those mitigations stack on each other - it would have been even more horrible if he would have used s&b - as sorc attacks nearly drain no stamina when beeing blocked.

every time your bow add was in range his healtbar droped significant. but sorcspells do no dmg on blocking chars.

Its not block + vamp reduction..they're abusing some bug to stack mitigation to 90% levels

For example, He's a vampire...and i've hit him with flawless dawnbreaker for 800 damage..This is an ability that delves for me for over 5k damage, and deals 60% more to vampires..hitting for 800 damage on a Non Blocking Target.

McDoogs · March 2015

lol better to stay out of cyrodiil and grind CP until ZOS sorts themselves out.

TheBull · March 2015

Blix is back with the BS...

This is nothing new OP. There was like a 50 page thread about this person doing this about 4 or 5 months ago.

Tankqull · March 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

block + vamp dmg reduction = nearly no dmg done by sorc abilities...
http://i.imgur.com/ifoh7t9.png

as all those mitigations stack on each other - it would have been even more horrible if he would have used s&b - as sorc attacks nearly drain no stamina when beeing blocked.

every time your bow add was in range his healtbar droped significant. but sorcspells do no dmg on blocking chars.

Its not block + vamp reduction..they're abusing some bug to stack mitigation to 90% levels

For example, He's a vampire...and i've hit him with flawless dawnbreaker for 800 damage..This is an ability that delves for me for over 5k damage, and deals 60% more to vampires..hitting for 800 damage on a Non Blocking Target.

take a look at my screen inevitable detonation 6.7k for me reduced to <1.1k on a target with out active cues for blocking no speed reduction by blocking nor mist form but my CLS clearly identified the block reduction to my dmg.

Ezareth · March 2015

Yeah that trashcan is back. Thankfully he's terrible and is easy to ignore. It really is a shame that after all this time Zenimax has done nothing to fix the problem.

Cody · March 2015

I blame Columba.

cozmon3c_ESO · March 2015

wow if i could mitigate that damage i would kill entire factions by myself lol. how is this bug even in existence zos??

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

Yeah, we encountered him before. @Germtrocity and I both spammed Endless Fury on him countless times, and I believe there was another sorc with us as well doing the same. He was in execute range and it quite literally took all of our magicka bars to finally kill him. Ridiculous.

Speaking of which, I came across a templar today that took absolutely no damage no matter what I did to him. He permablocked, for one, but even though he had to break free countless times, so on and so forth, he never took one bit of damage. Ever. I went through 4 full bars of magicka before I gave up on the idiot and left....mind you that's about 120k worth of magicka damage that didn't hurt him even slightly. I was pretty disgusted.

DeLindsay · March 2015

Or because the Player is a Sorc and stacking Magicka for Hardened Ward spams. Seriously, as a NB if I time things right I can survive 4-5 Players on me at once. Shields may have been nerfed in Cyro but that doesn't mean they're useless. I'm not saying that he/she isn't exploiting but it's very easy to Shield spam and take little to no damage.

Rylana · March 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Or because the Player is a Sorc and stacking Magicka for Hardened Ward spams. Seriously, as a NB if I time things right I can survive 4-5 Players on me at once. Shields may have been nerfed in Cyro but that doesn't mean they're useless. I'm not saying that he/she isn't exploiting but it's very easy to Shield spam and take little to no damage.

I think you misunderstand the problem.

Using "creative mechanics" which involve combinations not achievable normally by the game engine, this player can stack the mist form damage reduction on top of undeath passive, as well as some other cast skills. (the exploit is how they are able to keep mist form's damage reduction up even when not IN mist form).
They use shields to keep the health damage they take in small increments so the undeath passive can start kicking in and stack up until ....

Even with no shields, once this player is to 20 percent health they effectively become immune to all damage (i remember quite clearly a video of literal SINGLE DIGIT damage numbers)

This is not shield spamming. It is something quite different, though shield spamming early on is a requirement in most cases.

Also worth noting that if you can stack a burst of damage on this player that is all done within 2-3 seconds, with all cast (initiations) of damage happening prior to their health reaching about the 40-50 percent level, their exploit does not "kick in" for them and they are easily killed. In the current health levels of the game, this means you need to be able to do about 25-30k instant damage (less than 2 seconds total burst) to knock them down to zero before undeath kicks in. You also have to account for about 10-15k worth of shields. Ergo you need a few really big hits chained together really rapidly to break Blinx. Example would be stealth ambush, uppercut, wrecking blow. But the biggest hitter must be the last one, and all require what I call "stealth weaving" to achieve maximum single attack spike.

That being said, very few builds out there can put out the raw instant damage required, require very precise timing and execution, and are very close to the realm of cheese themselves.

Most importantly, all damage dealt MUST be finished with a lethal arrow/wrecking blow (or a large damage execute like Impale) powered with stealth damage bonuses (i use shadowy disguise for this purpose right as i hit my finisher), because the final hit has to be for half of their health bar. (if it is not a 10k+ hit in other words, undeath kicks in on the remaining ~2k or so health, and they become immortal)

Another important piece of advice regarding Blinx - never EVER light attack or use lightning/resto heavies. Nor should you ever use Mages wrath or any other small damage spell. Anything you hit this guy with needs to be a "chunk of health" damage attack.

Luckily this player is godawful otherwise and will rarely do enough damage to you himself to be a real threat. About all he can do is pop an endless fury as a finisher when youre mobbed by 10 other guys. On his own his damage output/sustain are pathetic.

DeLindsay · March 2015

Rylana wrote: »

I think you misunderstand the problem.

Using "creative mechanics" which involve combinations not achievable normally by the game engine, this player can stack the mist form damage reduction on top of undeath passive, as well as some other cast skills. (the exploit is how they are able to keep mist form's damage reduction up even when not IN mist form).
They use shields to keep the health damage they take in small increments so the undeath passive can start kicking in and stack up until ....

Even with no shields, once this player is to 20 percent health they effectively become immune to all damage (i remember quite clearly a video of literal SINGLE DIGIT damage numbers)

This is not shield spamming. It is something quite different, though shield spamming early on is a requirement in most cases.

Also worth noting that if you can stack a burst of damage on this player that is all done within 2-3 seconds, with all cast (initiations) of damage happening prior to their health reaching about the 40-50 percent level, their exploit does not "kick in" for them and they are easily killed. In the current health levels of the game, this means you need to be able to do about 25-30k instant damage (less than 2 seconds total burst) to knock them down to zero before undeath kicks in. You also have to account for about 10-15k worth of shields. Ergo you need a few really big hits chained together really rapidly to break Blinx. Example would be stealth ambush, uppercut, wrecking blow. But the biggest hitter must be the last one, and all require what I call "stealth weaving" to achieve maximum single attack spike.

That being said, very few builds out there can put out the raw instant damage required, require very precise timing and execution, and are very close to the realm of cheese themselves.

Most importantly, all damage dealt MUST be finished with a lethal arrow/wrecking blow (or a large damage execute like Impale) powered with stealth damage bonuses (i use shadowy disguise for this purpose right as i hit my finisher), because the final hit has to be for half of their health bar. (if it is not a 10k+ hit in other words, undeath kicks in on the remaining ~2k or so health, and they become immortal)

Another important piece of advice regarding Blinx - never EVER light attack or use lightning/resto heavies. Nor should you ever use Mages wrath or any other small damage spell. Anything you hit this guy with needs to be a "chunk of health" damage attack.

Luckily this player is godawful otherwise and will rarely do enough damage to you himself to be a real threat. About all he can do is pop an endless fury as a finisher when youre mobbed by 10 other guys. On his own his damage output/sustain are pathetic.

What my point is, unless you can prove AS FACT that the Player is exploiting then there's nothing you or 100 other Players can do about it. The more likely answer is that they aren't specifically exploiting or ZoS would've perma banned them do to what people here say as multiple reports for such actions. Again, I have no idea if that Sorc is or is not exploiting but saying that they are all because they don't take much damage at X Health is meaningless, there's all kinds of reasons why that could be happening that aren't exploits.

My further question to you then is, how do you know that Sorc is exploiting by stacking up damage mitigation in the exact manner you say they are, have you personally figured out how to exploit this very scenario yourself? Has Jessica or Gina popped onto one of the supposed many threads or replied to the suppsoed many reports to detail exactly how they're exploiting? I know the answer to the 2nd question is no because ZoS never discusses investigations into Player's actions. The very fact is this, that Sorc may be VERY good at timing certain abilities that keep them alive through all manner of incoming damage to the point that they "seem" to be cheating, but that doesn't mean they are.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO · March 2015

I've seen this guy do this in Cyrodiil. I just as like.. why isnt he dead yet

Roechacca · March 2015

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom WTH ?!

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · March 2015

We'll get this into the combat and gameplay team's hands to check out. (This isn't the Alliance War team's purview.)

Roechacca · March 2015

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We'll get this into the combat and gameplay team's hands to check out. (This isn't the Alliance War team's purview.)

Thanks

Erock25 · March 2015

Great job capturing this on video and making sure his name wasn't shown. I really hope ZOS does something about this.

BOLTERITY · March 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Great job capturing this on video and making sure his name wasn't shown. I really hope ZOS does something about this.

thank you, even though i didnt show his name though, most of the people already know who he is

Erock25 · March 2015

BOLTERITY wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Great job capturing this on video and making sure his name wasn't shown. I really hope ZOS does something about this.

thank you, even though i didnt show his name though, most of the people already know who he is

Yep. I wasn't being sarcastic. This will stay up because you didn't show the name. If he isn't banned (again) asap, ZOS got some explaining to do.

Rylana · March 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

I think you misunderstand the problem.

Using "creative mechanics" which involve combinations not achievable normally by the game engine, this player can stack the mist form damage reduction on top of undeath passive, as well as some other cast skills. (the exploit is how they are able to keep mist form's damage reduction up even when not IN mist form).
They use shields to keep the health damage they take in small increments so the undeath passive can start kicking in and stack up until ....

Even with no shields, once this player is to 20 percent health they effectively become immune to all damage (i remember quite clearly a video of literal SINGLE DIGIT damage numbers)

This is not shield spamming. It is something quite different, though shield spamming early on is a requirement in most cases.

Also worth noting that if you can stack a burst of damage on this player that is all done within 2-3 seconds, with all cast (initiations) of damage happening prior to their health reaching about the 40-50 percent level, their exploit does not "kick in" for them and they are easily killed. In the current health levels of the game, this means you need to be able to do about 25-30k instant damage (less than 2 seconds total burst) to knock them down to zero before undeath kicks in. You also have to account for about 10-15k worth of shields. Ergo you need a few really big hits chained together really rapidly to break Blinx. Example would be stealth ambush, uppercut, wrecking blow. But the biggest hitter must be the last one, and all require what I call "stealth weaving" to achieve maximum single attack spike.

That being said, very few builds out there can put out the raw instant damage required, require very precise timing and execution, and are very close to the realm of cheese themselves.

Most importantly, all damage dealt MUST be finished with a lethal arrow/wrecking blow (or a large damage execute like Impale) powered with stealth damage bonuses (i use shadowy disguise for this purpose right as i hit my finisher), because the final hit has to be for half of their health bar. (if it is not a 10k+ hit in other words, undeath kicks in on the remaining ~2k or so health, and they become immortal)

Another important piece of advice regarding Blinx - never EVER light attack or use lightning/resto heavies. Nor should you ever use Mages wrath or any other small damage spell. Anything you hit this guy with needs to be a "chunk of health" damage attack.

Luckily this player is godawful otherwise and will rarely do enough damage to you himself to be a real threat. About all he can do is pop an endless fury as a finisher when youre mobbed by 10 other guys. On his own his damage output/sustain are pathetic.

What my point is, unless you can prove AS FACT that the Player is exploiting then there's nothing you or 100 other Players can do about it. The more likely answer is that they aren't specifically exploiting or ZoS would've perma banned them do to what people here say as multiple reports for such actions. Again, I have no idea if that Sorc is or is not exploiting but saying that they are all because they don't take much damage at X Health is meaningless, there's all kinds of reasons why that could be happening that aren't exploits.

My further question to you then is, how do you know that Sorc is exploiting by stacking up damage mitigation in the exact manner you say they are, have you personally figured out how to exploit this very scenario yourself? Has Jessica or Gina popped onto one of the supposed many threads or replied to the suppsoed many reports to detail exactly how they're exploiting? I know the answer to the 2nd question is no because ZoS never discusses investigations into Player's actions. The very fact is this, that Sorc may be VERY good at timing certain abilities that keep them alive through all manner of incoming damage to the point that they "seem" to be cheating, but that doesn't mean they are.

1. they were banned for about 3 months. How or why they are back, not my purview.

2. Extensive testing was done related to these sorc videos over the last few months. On PTS several testers worked with the undeath passive, intentionally letting our health drop to 20-30 percent and then popping mistform. Then we had people start attacking us. Turns out undeath and mistform stack. You might have noticed someone in mist is extremely hard to kill until they come out of it. The numbers were ran, compared to other mitigations, and so forth, and the conclusion was this is only possible with mistforms 75% damage reduction up overlaying the undeath 50 (at the time). How it works is this

Deal an attack vs someone in undeath with the 33 percent buff active as well as being in mistform 75%

1000 * .75 = 250. Now take that 250 and apply undeath 33 percent further reduction

259 * .67 = 134

Now have that player be blocking/bracing for 50 percent damage reduction

67

Now have that players armor/spell resist into account... pick a number, it hard caps at 50%.

Now go back and look at the video, see all of those damage numbers from attacks that usually baseline for around 1000-1200 doing 20-30 damage?

Theres your concrete facts. No other way to reduce damage that far without mistform active. Go ahead, try it mathematically. Youll never get below 200 on an attack of 1000.

Therefore, we can safely conclude that the ONLY possible way to mitigate damage this far would be to somehow have mistform on a 100 percent uptime. How he is actually doing this? Still cant figure it out.

Oh and yes, this is the order it is calculated in, hilariously. (verified by the same series of tests mentioned before. was quite illuminating to the inner workings of combat calcs for builds). Active abilities apply first, then passives, then block, then armor. Crit actually is calculated at the very very end, which is why you often hear about snipe spammers doing little damage vs permablockers and the like, all that crit damage is wasted because their base attack was reduced by half before it was even calculated for the crit.

/nerd

Domander · March 2015

Rylana wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Or because the Player is a Sorc and stacking Magicka for Hardened Ward spams. Seriously, as a NB if I time things right I can survive 4-5 Players on me at once. Shields may have been nerfed in Cyro but that doesn't mean they're useless. I'm not saying that he/she isn't exploiting but it's very easy to Shield spam and take little to no damage.

I think you misunderstand the problem.

Using "creative mechanics" which involve combinations not achievable normally by the game engine, this player can stack the mist form damage reduction on top of undeath passive, as well as some other cast skills. (the exploit is how they are able to keep mist form's damage reduction up even when not IN mist form).
They use shields to keep the health damage they take in small increments so the undeath passive can start kicking in and stack up until ....

Even with no shields, once this player is to 20 percent health they effectively become immune to all damage (i remember quite clearly a video of literal SINGLE DIGIT damage numbers)

This is not shield spamming. It is something quite different, though shield spamming early on is a requirement in most cases.

Also worth noting that if you can stack a burst of damage on this player that is all done within 2-3 seconds, with all cast (initiations) of damage happening prior to their health reaching about the 40-50 percent level, their exploit does not "kick in" for them and they are easily killed. In the current health levels of the game, this means you need to be able to do about 25-30k instant damage (less than 2 seconds total burst) to knock them down to zero before undeath kicks in. You also have to account for about 10-15k worth of shields. Ergo you need a few really big hits chained together really rapidly to break Blinx. Example would be stealth ambush, uppercut, wrecking blow. But the biggest hitter must be the last one, and all require what I call "stealth weaving" to achieve maximum single attack spike.

That being said, very few builds out there can put out the raw instant damage required, require very precise timing and execution, and are very close to the realm of cheese themselves.

Most importantly, all damage dealt MUST be finished with a lethal arrow/wrecking blow (or a large damage execute like Impale) powered with stealth damage bonuses (i use shadowy disguise for this purpose right as i hit my finisher), because the final hit has to be for half of their health bar. (if it is not a 10k+ hit in other words, undeath kicks in on the remaining ~2k or so health, and they become immortal)

Another important piece of advice regarding Blinx - never EVER light attack or use lightning/resto heavies. Nor should you ever use Mages wrath or any other small damage spell. Anything you hit this guy with needs to be a "chunk of health" damage attack.

Luckily this player is godawful otherwise and will rarely do enough damage to you himself to be a real threat. About all he can do is pop an endless fury as a finisher when youre mobbed by 10 other guys. On his own his damage output/sustain are pathetic.

How is the mist form exploit still in game? I remember seeing this months and months ago

Undeath by itself is not very good, and you're normally unable to block while using mist form, but exploiting and stacking all those together would result in this I guess.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · March 2015

Domander wrote: »

How is the mist form exploit still in game? I remember seeing this months and months ago

Undeath by itself is not very good, and you're normally unable to block while using mist form, but exploiting and stacking all those together would result in this I guess.

The reason it is still in the game is that no one has publicly explained how it works. That's it. Things get fixed rather quickly when a "how to" video pops up on youtube. *Cough*launch dupe bug reported in beta *cough*

The other problem is that we don't know where to place this "exploit" on the 9 "exploiting" circles of Gamer Hell chart.

"Exploiter" circles of Hell

Virtuous Gamer Pagans. (Your "punishment" for this circle is usually ragetells calling you an exploiter)
1. Good players that kill lots of people
2. min/maxers and theorycrafters, set effect stackers
3. Animation cancelers

Starting to get Evil Circle...

4. People that intentionally use skills/items identified by ZOS as not working as intended to gain minor advantage
5. Heavy Macro users
6. Using any glitch/bug that has a serious effect on gameplay/economy

Circle of the unmentionables that deserve all sorts of endless torment

7. Intentionally causing lag by any means
8. Nasty external things that I sometimes wonder if people are using but really hope they are not...
9. People who make arrow to the knee jokes

This damage glitch could be anywhere on the chart. If its just a clever combination of set pieces then I'm going to laugh. But it seems like its somewhere in circle 5-6 of gamer hell. Some game breaking glitch combined with a macro to sustain it.

Ezareth · March 2015

Well it is obviously and exploit if not an actual hack.

I've attacked these players when they were completely unaware of me and the first fragment to hit them was at reduced damage.

No player using this exploit has been shown to be doing so without being a vampire.

Every time a player (I have video evidence of four different people) is using the exploit they're also using the Seducer costume which leads me to believe there is a set involved, a graphical glitch that occurs which is overwritten by the costume, or they want us to believe a set is involved (which I find unlikely)

The last thing to note is that their *damage shields* also benefit from reduced damage which to my knowledge is simply not possible by any mechanic in the game. I would like to have any of you vampires confirm that your damage shields do not take reduced damage while you're in mistform/undeath if you don't mind testing this.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · March 2015

What if you wore this set then set up a macro that put you in a constant state of casting something. That's 25% damage reduction off the top. Then all you need is a cheap spell and something else to stack it with - like 4 piece reduce damage from players 5% then roll a nord. That's 35% right there without mist form or undeath.

That set isn't very distinctive however (breton and looks like warlock) so it wouldn't be worth hiding. Was that set in the game back when this nonsense started?

Ezareth · March 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What if you wore this set then set up a macro that put you in a constant state of casting something. That's 25% damage reduction off the top. Then all you need is a cheap spell and something else to stack it with - like 4 piece reduce damage from players 5% then roll a nord. That's 35% right there without mist form or undeath.

That set isn't very distinctive however (breton and looks like warlock) so it wouldn't be worth hiding. Was that set in the game back when this nonsense started?

If I recall correctly it wasn't. But the mitigation shown here is something over 75% if I recall correctly. You can see the Youtube fight between me and a Templar using this exploit in my Youtube channel.

I still think it has something to do with Mistform since that matches the mitigation reduction they're receiving and they're all vampires, plus in my video there is a split second where I hit the templar for *full* damage right after the player comes out of mistform, and then the next attacks are all reduced by 3/4s again.

Bezilar · March 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah that trashcan is back. Thankfully he's terrible and is easy to ignore. It really is a shame that after all this time Zenimax has done nothing to fix the problem.

i60.tinypic.com/2py3ry8.png

Ezareth · March 2015

c.gregoryb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah that trashcan is back. Thankfully he's terrible and is easy to ignore. It really is a shame that after all this time Zenimax has done nothing to fix the problem.

i60.tinypic.com/2py3ry8.png

I hear killing blows take skill.

Bezilar · March 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

c.gregoryb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah that trashcan is back. Thankfully he's terrible and is easy to ignore. It really is a shame that after all this time Zenimax has done nothing to fix the problem.

i60.tinypic.com/2py3ry8.png

I hear killing blows take skill.

True, just ignore those deaths

Cody · March 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

How is the mist form exploit still in game? I remember seeing this months and months ago

Undeath by itself is not very good, and you're normally unable to block while using mist form, but exploiting and stacking all those together would result in this I guess.

The reason it is still in the game is that no one has publicly explained how it works. That's it. Things get fixed rather quickly when a "how to" video pops up on youtube. *Cough*launch dupe bug reported in beta *cough*

The other problem is that we don't know where to place this "exploit" on the 9 "exploiting" circles of Gamer Hell chart.

"Exploiter" circles of Hell

Virtuous Gamer Pagans. (Your "punishment" for this circle is usually ragetells calling you an exploiter)
1. Good players that kill lots of people
2. min/maxers and theorycrafters, set effect stackers
3. Animation cancelers

Starting to get Evil Circle...

4. People that intentionally use skills/items identified by ZOS as not working as intended to gain minor advantage
5. Heavy Macro users
6. Using any glitch/bug that has a serious effect on gameplay/economy

Circle of the unmentionables that deserve all sorts of endless torment

7. Intentionally causing lag by any means
8. Nasty external things that I sometimes wonder if people are using but really hope they are not...
9. People who make arrow to the knee jokes

This damage glitch could be anywhere on the chart. If its just a clever combination of set pieces then I'm going to laugh. But it seems like its somewhere in circle 5-6 of gamer hell. Some game breaking glitch combined with a macro to sustain it.

i used to be a min maxer like you, then i took an arrow to the knee:D

TheLaw · March 2015

I know who he was going for. We've killed him and his friend with large groups, but he is 100% exploiting.