Templar Focused Charge

Pmarsico9 · February 2015

It's disturbing that a situational ability needs a GCD.

Simply put: Either remove the GCD entirely or just remove the ability and put something that isn't redundant with Shield Charge and Critical Charge or situational that is a pure DPS ability for a class that, even with the changes, lacks interesting DPS choices.

Please! It literally serves no purpose other than to make people who are uneducated about how bad this ability is compared to either of the other two weapon abilities available to EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME to make a poor choice and spec this piece of trash.

How do I know? I'm one of them. I did it. It's terrible. I was astounded how bad the ability's responsiveness was compared to either other charge available in ESO.

A nuke, a melee DoT, anything. For the love of Kyne, please, please don't remove Blinding Flashes, which at the very least had situational usefulness, and let this ability slot languish. It logically makes no sense at all.

Pmarsico9 · February 2015

Another idea: A true CC for Templars and take the knockback off PS.

LunaRae · February 2015

Funny my guild always bugged me about not using Focused Charge - then someone rolled Templar, I let them learn the hard way why I don't use Focused Charge

booksmcread · February 2015

I like having a class ability that is a gap closer. I just want the GCD removed.

david.haypreub18_ESO · February 2015

booksmcread wrote: »

I like having a class ability that is a gap closer. I just want the GCD removed.

We all do. Everyone except ZOS, it seems.

jopeymonster · February 2015

I... I.... I'm trying really hard to NOT participate in this discussion, because I feel that I'll just be disappointed again.

Anyone else notice how much QQ the Sorcs had when they GCD'ed Crit Surge heal? I just couldn't stop laughing...

Then they changed it... and I began to get angry.

If they remove the Crit Surge GCD, and still do nothing with Charge... omgz, I'm going to STAB MYSELF IN THE EYE!

Hear that ZOS: I WILL STAB MYSELF IN THE EYE IF YOU KEEP CIRCLEJERKING THIS!

timidobserver · February 2015

I've given up hoping on this. Some guy at ZOS has decided that Focused Charge is OP and needs a GCD.

timidobserver · February 2015

It'll probably get ignored, but put your concerns about focused charge here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151286/q-a-with-eric-wrobel-on-eso-live#latest

Stinkur · February 2015

I agree with post. But would also like to address the issue when you do use the ability you seem to be stacked on top of the player and puncturing strikes will completely whiff less I hit the back walk key one tiny step before firing it off. Why cant it be like every other charge? Every other charge you run into player/mob it detects them and stops you at the perfect distance to be able to fire off another ability and not whiff without taking one tiny step back? Anyone else notice that issue with templar charge you charge and are stacked up on them to tightly for punc strikes to fire correctly?

likewow777 · February 2015

Charge is a skill that makes sad to think about. When I first created my Temp, it was my favorite skill. It's what made the character fun, but back then it didn't have the cooldown. In fact, the only reason I didn't scrap the character was because 2H also has a gap closer. That sounds like a good excuse for ZOS, actually, and might even be their logic. Or something about how the skill was always supposed to have the GCD, but they forgot to implement it.

Since I'm pretty sure there won't ever be a removal of the cooldown, I think the least they can do is put it in the tooltip.

Stinkur · February 2015

why does it even have a cool down? shouldnt it just be like most charges only usable between 5 to 22 meters? All charges should have a min range, thought that is how it on live but looking at ESO no charge has min range......

KeplerMG · February 2015

Watching the Aedric Spear line continue to degererate makes me want to just stop watching and walk away from the whole game.

likewow777 · February 2015

Stinkur wrote: »

why does it even have a cool down? shouldnt it just be like most charges only usable between 5 to 22 meters? All charges should have a min range, thought that is how it on live but looking at ESO no charge has min range......

Our OP actually posted a little history on this a few months ago in a different post. Enjoy!

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Here's the history behind this:

When the game hit early access then release, it was filled with bot farmers. Which were using a simple macro to tag nearly every dungeon boss using Templars with Focused Charge and then Biting Jabs Spam (before Biting Jabs healed, it was because the knockback worked on almost everything and allowed for damage to go out without taking any) on an auto-macro.

The GCD was inserted to break the macro, but it also effed over every Templar. As such, you are glued to either Critical Charge or Shield Charge as a gap closer.

Focused Charge, Eclipse, Backlash, the Dark Flare Morph, the Searing Light Morph, and Piercing Javelin are essentially terrible and the class has more dead abilities at this point that never serve any purpose at all.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

1.6 does address things in the Dawn's Wrath tree that needed doing, though to be fair those skills were so terrible they should never have been released. I always wondered about the mind of a person who would stand back after creating many of the Templar skills and actually say, "Yes, that is absolutely perfect. What a masterpiece!"

danovic · February 2015

Shield charge is the same charge but it ends with you knocking the target back so it works. They just need to add the same thing to templar line so you can have a magic charge not a stamina. Knock them on there butts for the win. Think that thing you calling a global cooldown is just the time it takes for the processor to skip that last little shield slam.

Cinbri · February 2015

just a sidenote: Using templar charge in 1.6.2 while eclipsed will apply instant snare on your templar.

likewow777 · February 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

just a sidenote: Using templar charge in 1.6.2 while eclipsed will apply instant snare on your templar.

Huh...now there's something I need to try!

Alcast · February 2015

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Another idea: A true CC for Templars and take the knockback off PS.

In its current state in 1.6.2 Puncturing Strikes is completly useless in both PvP and PvE.

There are really 2 options here for Puncturing Strikes.

Solution1: Remove the knockback and remove the CC immunity and let the DMG stay at 140%.
Solution2: Let the knockback and the CC immunity stay as it is but boost the DMG back to 170%. So people can choose between a powerfull skill but with disadvantages like the enemies CC imunity.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

pppontus · February 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Another idea: A true CC for Templars and take the knockback off PS.

A true CC for the templar or either remove the knockback and the CC immunity other people get, or increase the dmg back to 170% for puncturing strikes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is about focused charge and not puncturing strikes

Anyway I agree with removing the GCD on focused charge, sadly it makes the ability useless.

Alcast · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Another idea: A true CC for Templars and take the knockback off PS.

A true CC for the templar or either remove the knockback and the CC immunity other people get, or increase the dmg back to 170% for puncturing strikes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is about focused charge and not puncturing strikes

Anyway I agree with removing the GCD on focused charge, sadly it makes the ability useless.

Sry lol, I always interrupt >.> My highest concern is Puncturing strikes, just saw sb wrote smth about that.

But ye, Focused charge, I think I used that ability last time in April 2014 when i was testing skills? It would be great to have smth there that actually helps us CC. It still feels like they gave all AoE and CC abilites to DKs lol.

Pmarsico9 · February 2015

booksmcread wrote: »

I like having a class ability that is a gap closer. I just want the GCD removed.

Listen, here's my problem:

Never did it clearly and concisely say during my period of mulling over which character to roll that I would give up all semblance of being able to deal damage at anything close to other classes when I rolled a Templar. The class description never said "Strictly a healer and Support Class." Considering how most top tier Trials guilds will not bring stamina based DPS (because it does hurt survivability compared to magicka based DPS, which has the same potential and can blow all its stamina on blocking, sprinting, and dodging, WHILE HAVING A STAMINA TO DPS CONVERSION VIA EVIL HUNTER IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS) and will continue not to, live has been cruel to DPS-lars since, well, forever. Such a situational skill like Focused Charge is eating up a valuable slot that can be used for another DPS active (preferably something to replace Puncturing Strikes since they refuse to take the damned knockback off it) or a true CC that would bolster Templar Tanks and perhaps support Templar PVP DPSers. It's too situational.

Granted, a lot of the DPS issues are being fixed, with at least a semi-viable caster DPS-lar looking like it could work in 1.6, but it doesn't change the fact that the kit is very limited compared to other classes. The restoring Light tree is singular in its focus. Dawn's Wrath is still giving up a slot to Eclipse, another utility spell, and between Sun Shield and Focused Charge, you have two slots that simply aren't providing you with damage in Aedric Spear. That puts Templars below all other classes as far as having actual active ability choices to form DPS builds and "playing as you want."

I agree with post. But would also like to address the issue when you do use the ability you seem to be stacked on top of the player and puncturing strikes will completely whiff less I hit the back walk key one tiny step before firing it off.

It's sucks so hard, it's funny. Really. Last time I had it specced, I charged through Tamriel (literally) and fell to my death after about 90 seconds of falling continuously. The GCD sucks, but there's more issues than that with the ability. I used to use Blinding Flashes when I tanked big pulls from time to time. Now that's gone, but thank the 9 that this remains............

When the game hit early access then release, it was filled with bot farmers. Which were using a simple macro to tag nearly every dungeon boss using Templars with Focused Charge and then Biting Jabs Spam (before Biting Jabs healed, it was because the knockback worked on almost everything and allowed for damage to go out without taking any) on an auto-macro.

The GCD was inserted to break the macro, but it also effed over every Templar. As such, you are glued to either Critical Charge or Shield Charge as a gap closer.

It's worth noting that Solar Barrage has a GCD too. It was part of what the bots used to do as well and got that amazing GCD of awesome on it. I haven't tested it on the PTS personally (Solar Barrage) but will look to do so tonight if I get a chance to login. Is it still there?

Either way, Barrage lacks synergy with PS from a damage standpoint, since only the first strike will benefit. Meaning Barrage still sucks anyway.

just a sidenote: Using templar charge in 1.6.2 while eclipsed will apply instant snare on your templar.

If this is any indication of the design intent, Focused Charge should kill you after it's used.

cwp303b14_ESO · February 2015

I pride myself on trying to keep an objective point of view on most of the changes from patch to patch, especially when I know I have a bias towards the classes I play, and curb my emotions in light of what is best for the game.

However, the GCD on Templar abilities, JUST Templar abilities, NO other class abilities in the game, because of what some D-bag bot spammer POS decided to use does actually induce unrestrained rage.

That is NOT my problem. Period. I have to suffer because of bots AND I have to suffer if they are stopped by these means and if I HAVE to choose because there is no other solution then let there be bots.

My only constructive feedback would be to take away the damage, altogether if needed, from the ability and introduce pure utility so that it is not productive for bots to use.

Examples:

Free charge with no damage. So, just a free way to move around.

Some kind of shield.

Some kind of buff. I, literally, do not care which. It could be a buff to inspiration gains in crafting for 4 seconds. Just remove the GCD so it has SOME use.

Change it to a speed buff.

Make it damage the caster for all I care. Just remove the GCD

also, REMOVE the GCD.

GCD!!!

david.haypreub18_ESO · February 2015

Can someone explain what it was about the Templar charge, specifically, that made it the choice of the bots? Even without the GCD, it doesn't seem to be notably better than the charges one gets in the 1H/S and 2H lines.

I am thinking that perhaps ZOS wants to keep the GCD because they anticipate the return of bots with the game going F2P and the console versions coming out. Maybe if we understand what exactly about the skill made it abusable, we might be able to offer better alternatives.

Pmarsico9 · February 2015

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Can someone explain what it was about the Templar charge, specifically, that made it the choice of the bots? Even without the GCD, it doesn't seem to be notably better than the charges one gets in the 1H/S and 2H lines.

I am thinking that perhaps ZOS wants to keep the GCD because they anticipate the return of bots with the game going F2P and the console versions coming out. Maybe if we understand what exactly about the skill made it abusable, we might be able to offer better alternatives.

They could tag and farm (and troll other players) on Public Dungeon bosses. I was there for that. It sucked. They could almost simultaneously output Barrage and Focused Charge then spam PS and it made it exceedingly easy to do so.

cwp303b14_ESO · February 2015

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Can someone explain what it was about the Templar charge, specifically, that made it the choice of the bots? Even without the GCD, it doesn't seem to be notably better than the charges one gets in the 1H/S and 2H lines.

I am thinking that perhaps ZOS wants to keep the GCD because they anticipate the return of bots with the game going F2P and the console versions coming out. Maybe if we understand what exactly about the skill made it abusable, we might be able to offer better alternatives.

They could tag and farm (and troll other players) on Public Dungeon bosses. I was there for that. It sucked. They could almost simultaneously output Barrage and Focused Charge then spam PS and it made it exceedingly easy to do so.

I was here for that too. I've been here since open beta. It was terrible.

The solution they put into action was a temp fix in my mind and they never refined it into something fair to Templars. I was silent on the issue because I understand that bots are bad for the game and something drastic had to be done but nothing ever changed. They got a flat tire, put a spare on, and then... nothing. Just months of driving on that spare.

This is IT though. THE class ability refining patch. THE LAST CHANCE for a long time to get something changed while the focus is on class abilities.

If this stays the same, and this is just as drastic as what they implemented, then the only way to true balance is to promote bots using other classes as the go-to spam-o-matics and having some of their abilities "adjusted" to combat the threat.

That sounds inflammatory and ridiculous but so is this issue. Other classes should cry out about this too or face a situation where it happens to them and nothing changes no matter the outrage because it's already business as usual.

To be clear, I do not condone botting or anything against ToS but something has to be said to raise awareness about this situation.

jopeymonster · February 2015

So Eric Wrobel admitted this was a "bug" in ESO Live and it's getting fixed.

Why do I feel that it will still be in there this time next year?

Oh right, it was a bug intentionally placed, and instead of outright admitting they messed up the design, they go and act like its intentional ("GCD time reduced BS"), then change their mind and now it's officially a bug.

Honestly, I see now why so many people have quit. It's exhausting when someone repeatedly lies about something because they just don't want to sack up and admit a mistake. Super mature business attitude indeed.

But hey, now that it's a "bug", it should be fix...

right?

right?

......

timidobserver · February 2015

jopeymonster wrote: »

So Eric Wrobel admitted this was a "bug" in ESO Live and it's getting fixed.

Why do I feel that it will still be in there this time next year?

Oh right, it was a bug intentionally placed, and instead of outright admitting they messed up the design, they go and act like its intentional ("GCD time reduced BS"), then change their mind and now it's officially a bug.

Honestly, I see now why so many people have quit. It's exhausting when someone repeatedly lies about something because they just don't want to sack up and admit a mistake. Super mature business attitude indeed.

But hey, now that it's a "bug", it should be fix...

right?

right?

......

I am satisfied to know that it isn't intended. That means it will eventually be fixed.

AriBoh · February 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

I am satisfied to know that it isn't intended. That means it will eventually be fixed.

As long as a ZoS eventually is a lot shorter than a ZoS soon.

Pmarsico9 · February 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

jopeymonster wrote: »

So Eric Wrobel admitted this was a "bug" in ESO Live and it's getting fixed.

Why do I feel that it will still be in there this time next year?

Oh right, it was a bug intentionally placed, and instead of outright admitting they messed up the design, they go and act like its intentional ("GCD time reduced BS"), then change their mind and now it's officially a bug.

Honestly, I see now why so many people have quit. It's exhausting when someone repeatedly lies about something because they just don't want to sack up and admit a mistake. Super mature business attitude indeed.

But hey, now that it's a "bug", it should be fix...

right?

right?

......

I am satisfied to know that it isn't intended. That means it will eventually be fixed.

The problem with that line of thinking is tied to how so much design is seemingly done via a blanket. The other post on here is indicating that a two hander wielding templar has a 16% advantage in spell power over a resto staff wielding templar is further proof. Instead of individually making stamina morphs of abilities scale off weapon power, they have somme bizarre conversion of weapon power to spell damage happening which lacks transparency. They seriously. They are simultaneously supporting stat stacking and also trying to do something opposite to support hybrid Magicka/stamina play. It's schizoid.

Really, ZOS, pay attention on an ability by ability level and u prevent work down the line that will not need "fixed." Your player base will appreciate simplicity over complexity bred by lazy programming......