Yea I gotta say, the Impen change has made PvP way worse on PTS

Xsorus · January 2015

If you haven't pvped on pts yet you really don't understand how much worse it is. I can get around 36k health if I really focus on it but 2 seconds into the fight I'm completely useless as all my resources are gone.

Samadhi · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

That's not true, my character has ~3200hp in cyrodiil on live, ~20k on pts

Correct, they nerfed overall health by around 40% (not sure why).

Want to say that I vaguely recall someone (maybe Paul Sage?) saying shortly before Christmas that they felt it was too easy to build HP and wanted us to work for it more.
Maybe there was something in the comment about having paid attention to what skills people were slotting for bonuses or something? Having trouble with the recall at the moment; could also be incorrect, memory is vague.

Have a build on Live that has around 4k hp in Cyrodiil, not looking forward to this change but will adjust.

Too easy to build HP?

I think the real problem might be it's too easy to spam dmg shields/heals while dishing out damage.

Just saying

Can totally agree, but am not the person involved in making decisions.
Just have a vague memory of the comment.

XEVENEX · January 2015

Feidam wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

The damage numbers add up, but the health does not. By your math I should have around 26k health but I do not. Sitting at 20k health. Something is off with health from before.

This and crits were NOT common at all before.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

That's not true, my character has ~3200hp in cyrodiil on live, ~20k on pts

Correct, they nerfed overall health by around 40% (not sure why).

I guess they wanted the already fast TTK to be even faster? It gives us a lot more time on the horse-riding simulator....

I thought I read somewhere on the forums a couple weeks back that the stat redesign in 1.6 was intended to make the TTK in Cyrodil longer than it currently is on live. Is my memory correct?

DeLindsay · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

This and crits were NOT common at all before.

Not this, ZoS said multiple times in various places they REDUCED Health for 1.6. It was one of the ONLY Stats that didn't scale x10 like the rest did. If you are a PvE Tank, get your gear on and check your Health, you will find it similar to your Cyro Health, mine is about 26K for both. While PvE DPS/Healers have about 21K Health (roughly 5K difference, and on Live the diff is about 500) so the Health values are scaled correctly , just not a full x10 like damage output scaled. However, if ZoS's fix to all the "unkillable" Players in Cyro and Zergs was to make it so that everyone could be 1-2 shot then I gotta lol. Many of the changes for 1.6 are outstanding, this change makes you wonder if the devs have ever played an MMO, let alone ESO.

Poxheart · January 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

If you haven't pvped on pts yet you really don't understand how much worse it is. I can get around 36k health if I really focus on it but 2 seconds into the fight I'm completely useless as all my resources are gone.

Last night when I was on the PTS defending Chalman I had close to 30K health with full heavy armor and my resources were depleted in seconds once I engaged the enemy.

Xsorus · January 2015

Yea...I've basically been trying a 5 piece Construct/5 Piece Ravager build (3 piece ogrim as its all i had) on PTS.

Its full heavy armor..and actually works decently with 1 handed/shield and 2 hander.

Its made crits a lot more manageable knocking them down an extra 20%

Resources still get depleted fast though...

Rylana · January 2015

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

Except for this line is wrong. Due to the way attributes, buffs, and enchants work now, you will see a global 20-30% reduction in health pools vs stamina and magicka scaling.

Health goes up about 6-7x, everything else goes up about 9-10x.

Examples.

Stamina NB build from live @ 2995 health, on PTS today has 17000 health. had 2400 stamina on live, has 22k stamina on PTS

Magicka DK on live has 3500 health/2400 magicka on live. on PTS it has 26000 health/22000 magicka

So it is not 10-1 like people are claiming.

XEVENEX · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

This and crits were NOT common at all before.

Not this, ZoS said multiple times in various places they REDUCED Health for 1.6. It was one of the ONLY Stats that didn't scale x10 like the rest did. If you are a PvE Tank, get your gear on and check your Health, you will find it similar to your Cyro Health, mine is about 26K for both. While PvE DPS/Healers have about 21K Health (roughly 5K difference, and on Live the diff is about 500) so the Health values are scaled correctly , just not a full x10 like damage output scaled. However, if ZoS's fix to all the "unkillable" Players in Cyro and Zergs was to make it so that everyone could be 1-2 shot then I gotta lol. Many of the changes for 1.6 are outstanding, this change makes you wonder if the devs have ever played an MMO, let alone ESO.

Im not certain we disagree here. Im just saying crit is contributing to that.

shebali · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

This and crits were NOT common at all before.

Not this, ZoS said multiple times in various places they REDUCED Health for 1.6. It was one of the ONLY Stats that didn't scale x10 like the rest did. If you are a PvE Tank, get your gear on and check your Health, you will find it similar to your Cyro Health, mine is about 26K for both. While PvE DPS/Healers have about 21K Health (roughly 5K difference, and on Live the diff is about 500) so the Health values are scaled correctly , just not a full x10 like damage output scaled. However, if ZoS's fix to all the "unkillable" Players in Cyro and Zergs was to make it so that everyone could be 1-2 shot then I gotta lol. Many of the changes for 1.6 are outstanding, this change makes you wonder if the devs have ever played an MMO, let alone ESO.

Im not certain we disagree here. Im just saying crit is contributing to that.

Crit is not the problem. People not wanting to change is the problem. If you don't want to die fast you will need to spec into heavy a/c and hp with a good amount of regen. The days of stacking max magicka and stam is gone.

Also, people saying the damage is up are also wrong. On live I can crit for 1700 snipe all day and without any changes in armor PTS it is down to 1200, after a few changes it is back up to 1800 or 18,000. The issue is people have less HP and are missing HP from the servers which will also lower incoming damage.

There will need to be tweaks, but the damage is not high. People just need to wear and change gear. I bet that heavy armor which lowers crit damage by 20% along with new passives and new imp will really slow damage down. But, it comes at a risk of having low magicka and stam.

The game should be better balanced in the end. No more 1x50.

XEVENEX · January 2015

shebali wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

This and crits were NOT common at all before.

Not this, ZoS said multiple times in various places they REDUCED Health for 1.6. It was one of the ONLY Stats that didn't scale x10 like the rest did. If you are a PvE Tank, get your gear on and check your Health, you will find it similar to your Cyro Health, mine is about 26K for both. While PvE DPS/Healers have about 21K Health (roughly 5K difference, and on Live the diff is about 500) so the Health values are scaled correctly , just not a full x10 like damage output scaled. However, if ZoS's fix to all the "unkillable" Players in Cyro and Zergs was to make it so that everyone could be 1-2 shot then I gotta lol. Many of the changes for 1.6 are outstanding, this change makes you wonder if the devs have ever played an MMO, let alone ESO.

Im not certain we disagree here. Im just saying crit is contributing to that.

Crit is not the problem. People not wanting to change is the problem. If you don't want to die fast you will need to spec into heavy a/c and hp with a good amount of regen. The days of stacking max magicka and stam is gone.

Also, people saying the damage is up are also wrong. On live I can crit for 1700 snipe all day and without any changes in armor PTS it is down to 1200, after a few changes it is back up to 1800 or 18,000. The issue is people have less HP and are missing HP from the servers which will also lower incoming damage.

There will need to be tweaks, but the damage is not high. People just need to wear and change gear. I bet that heavy armor which lowers crit damage by 20% along with new passives and new imp will really slow damage down. But, it comes at a risk of having low magicka and stam.

The game should be better balanced in the end. No more 1x50.

Fair enough but if you were critting anyone on live without a potion or a buff they were newbies. Crit is a thing now which wasnt really before. It is conributing.

Sharee · January 2015

Impen change is only a part of the issue.

- light armor only gives 1/4 protection compared to heavy now (and most ppl are running around in light)
- everyone has relatively less HP compared to damage done
- crits actually crit now (and EU testers are running around in non-impenetrable trial gear)
- damage in general seems to be bugged on PTS right now (22000 heavy staff hit, people exploding when the templar jesus beam as much as touches them, etc.)

The low ttk is due to all of the above(and im sure i missed two or three more reasons

)

Feidam · January 2015

Running with full impen and as many points as possible, ie all i can put there, in the champion passive crits themselves are not a major problem. Yes they can still hit harder, but they should it is a crit. The problem is being forced do that because of the changes.

It feels like they want less skill spamming more weaving of light and heavy attacks in with your skills. In my mind this could be a good thing. However, with the lower health pools and skills hitting for almost all of those new health pools there is a problem. Time to kill is just too fast atm. You have almost zero chance to fight back unless you run around keeping your damage shield up 24/7.

I am not sure it is just one factor contributing to the issue however. More play time is definitely needed.

Derra · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

That's not true, my character has ~3200hp in cyrodiil on live, ~20k on pts

Correct, they nerfed overall health by around 40% (not sure why).

Want to say that I vaguely recall someone (maybe Paul Sage?) saying shortly before Christmas that they felt it was too easy to build HP and wanted us to work for it more.
Maybe there was something in the comment about having paid attention to what skills people were slotting for bonuses or something? Having trouble with the recall at the moment; could also be incorrect, memory is vague.

Have a build on Live that has around 4k hp in Cyrodiil, not looking forward to this change but will adjust.

Too easy to build HP?

I think the real problem might be it's too easy to spam dmg shields/heals while dishing out damage.

Just saying

I think you have to accept this is the way zos actually wants some classes to be played. Healing is not really an option as a sorcerer at all given the way critsurge was changed.
15000 hardened ward is something i can live with

Nacario · January 2015

I feel it is important to note that many of us are still stuck with 1.5.8 mindset of how combat/meta works. Need to give it some time and further testing before blowing proportions. At least it feels theres less about being able to do several things/being a hybrid, now its more about role specialization. You can even see that they changed armor passives, where before it was "must have at least 5 in.." while now it is full set of medium etc.

Less chance of 1vX now, at least you'll need to be more careful and aware.

DeLindsay · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

Im not certain we disagree here. Im just saying crit is contributing to that.

Fair point, and as @Sharee pointed out, if many of the EU testers are running around in zero Impen gear (due to not having their own toons on PTS yet) then I can totally understand why they're upset about getting destroyed before they can even react. More to point, I think I'm leaning in the direction of what @Feidam said that once you are FULLY invested in Crit reduction (like true PvPers would be) then it's not as much of an issue. This lends some credibility to ZoS actually listening to PvPers and giving them a palpable advantage over fluffy care bears who step into their domain (Cyro) hoping to play with the big dogs. Time will tell ofc, and I'd wager they change MANY things before it hits Live.

Nacario wrote: »

Less chance of 1vX now, at least you'll need to be more careful and aware.

This bums me out a little though as I felt 1vX and Duos are a great mechanic in Cyro. Sure they aren't countering zergs but that's not the point either. And if I'm being honest, small group PvP is some of the best times I've had in Cyro. But I admit I do love a good zerg group, especially run by @Yodased

shebali · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

shebali wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

This and crits were NOT common at all before.

Not this, ZoS said multiple times in various places they REDUCED Health for 1.6. It was one of the ONLY Stats that didn't scale x10 like the rest did. If you are a PvE Tank, get your gear on and check your Health, you will find it similar to your Cyro Health, mine is about 26K for both. While PvE DPS/Healers have about 21K Health (roughly 5K difference, and on Live the diff is about 500) so the Health values are scaled correctly , just not a full x10 like damage output scaled. However, if ZoS's fix to all the "unkillable" Players in Cyro and Zergs was to make it so that everyone could be 1-2 shot then I gotta lol. Many of the changes for 1.6 are outstanding, this change makes you wonder if the devs have ever played an MMO, let alone ESO.

Im not certain we disagree here. Im just saying crit is contributing to that.

Crit is not the problem. People not wanting to change is the problem. If you don't want to die fast you will need to spec into heavy a/c and hp with a good amount of regen. The days of stacking max magicka and stam is gone.

Also, people saying the damage is up are also wrong. On live I can crit for 1700 snipe all day and without any changes in armor PTS it is down to 1200, after a few changes it is back up to 1800 or 18,000. The issue is people have less HP and are missing HP from the servers which will also lower incoming damage.

There will need to be tweaks, but the damage is not high. People just need to wear and change gear. I bet that heavy armor which lowers crit damage by 20% along with new passives and new imp will really slow damage down. But, it comes at a risk of having low magicka and stam.

The game should be better balanced in the end. No more 1x50.

Fair enough but if you were critting anyone on live without a potion or a buff they were newbies. Crit is a thing now which wasnt really before. It is conributing.

No, I have a crit build and I always crit. No need for me to go into detail. But, crit has a place in live along with sneak damage. It will also be good in 1.6, but there will be a risk unlike in live you can have everything.

Teargrants · January 2015

Guys, there is no 'just build tanker now'. You can go full heavy sword and shield block cost reduction, trying to block will still drain your stamina exceedingly fast. No stamina = dead, heavy armor just means you live a couple more seconds once you're out of stamina lying on the ground watching them sodemize your body.

The only thing that makes sense in this meta where blocking leads to death is to spec full dps to pressure ppl into the defensive where they simply run out of resources.

The problem is that going 100% offense depletes your resources slower than mixing offense/defense or full defense.

Bashev · January 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Guys, there is no 'just build tanker now'. You can go full heavy sword and shield block cost reduction, trying to block will still drain your stamina exceedingly fast. No stamina = dead, heavy armor just means you live a couple more seconds once you're out of stamina lying on the ground watching them sodemize your body.

The only thing that makes sense in this meta where blocking leads to death is to spec full dps to pressure ppl into the defensive where they simply run out of resources.

The problem is that going 100% offense depletes your resources slower than mixing offense/defense or full defense.

I absolutely agree with you. As an addition now in pvp a lot of skills bypass block and CC you. The heavy passive for CC break cost reduction is gone and constitution passive was nerfed. Sadly now I have to think for a range dps build. In range I will charge my ultimate easier without any risks and I can use SS to pew pew.

DDuke · January 2015

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

That's not true, my character has ~3200hp in cyrodiil on live, ~20k on pts

Correct, they nerfed overall health by around 40% (not sure why).

Want to say that I vaguely recall someone (maybe Paul Sage?) saying shortly before Christmas that they felt it was too easy to build HP and wanted us to work for it more.
Maybe there was something in the comment about having paid attention to what skills people were slotting for bonuses or something? Having trouble with the recall at the moment; could also be incorrect, memory is vague.

Have a build on Live that has around 4k hp in Cyrodiil, not looking forward to this change but will adjust.

Too easy to build HP?

I think the real problem might be it's too easy to spam dmg shields/heals while dishing out damage.

Just saying

I think you have to accept this is the way zos actually wants some classes to be played. Healing is not really an option as a sorcerer at all given the way critsurge was changed.
15000 hardened ward is something i can live with

Well, it's certainly not the way majority of players want to play.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143759/would-you-like-dmg-shields-heals-to-become-more-or-less-prevalent-in-pvp#latest

If they want happy customers & diverse PvP, they should do something about it (no, the answer is not: make everyone easy to one-shot).

Wahee · January 2015

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

That's not true, my character has ~3200hp in cyrodiil on live, ~20k on pts

Correct, they nerfed overall health by around 40% (not sure why).

Want to say that I vaguely recall someone (maybe Paul Sage?) saying shortly before Christmas that they felt it was too easy to build HP and wanted us to work for it more.
Maybe there was something in the comment about having paid attention to what skills people were slotting for bonuses or something? Having trouble with the recall at the moment; could also be incorrect, memory is vague.

Have a build on Live that has around 4k hp in Cyrodiil, not looking forward to this change but will adjust.

Too easy to build HP?

I think the real problem might be it's too easy to spam dmg shields/heals while dishing out damage.

Just saying

I think you have to accept this is the way zos actually wants some classes to be played. Healing is not really an option as a sorcerer at all given the way critsurge was changed.
15000 hardened ward is something i can live with

15,000 for how much magicka? I can tell you right now on a stam build it costs me way more stamina to break a 15k shield than it costs you to reapply it. Shields in their current form just seem way too spammable and efficient compared to other forms of mitigation. How much does a block or dodge roll mitigate for the cost compared to hardened ward or healing ward? Even on live it is this way, which lead to the shield stacking meta. I find it boring.

I'd much rather see less efficient shields and higher total health pools with cheaper block/dodge.

WebBull · January 2015

Impending is not mitigating properly (or at all).

Armitas · January 2015

The notes say it would take 3200 impenetrable to fully mitigatate standard crit damage...so did they forget to scale the impenetrable on the armor?

MrGhosty · January 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Some skills seem to be scaling too well. A friend and I were duoing and he was getting 21k hits from stealth on wrecking blow. Most of his other attacks from stealth were landing between 13k and 15k. My soul assault ultimate is channeling for 20k. Some that is just plain crazy.

Please L2Math and then come back

21k crits from steath = 2100 crits from steath on live. This is common.

13k and 15k crits from steath = 1.3k and 1.5k. This is normal.

20k Soul assault = 2000 soul assault. This is normal.

Check your health? Do you have 16k health?

If you do, that is equivalent to 1600 health on Live.

L2Math plox

That's not true, my character has ~3200hp in cyrodiil on live, ~20k on pts

Correct, they nerfed overall health by around 40% (not sure why).

I guess they wanted the already fast TTK to be even faster? It gives us a lot more time on the horse-riding simulator....

We can ride guars....LEVEL UP!

Leovolao · January 2015

Armitas wrote: »

The notes say it would take 3200 impenetrable to fully mitigation standard crit damage...so did they forget to scale the impenetrable on the armor?

Not likely, they said that the full advantage of impen will be available through champ points.

Vesir · January 2015

yeah, damage is still too high, even with the 15% reduction from cyrodil buff

NotSo · January 2015

If you folks need to find an optimum way of stacking particular buffs/debuffs to get that survivability or resource management I compiled all the new standards together http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148755/skills-abilities-listed-by-standardized-buff-debuff-effect

Poxheart · January 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Yea...I've basically been trying a 5 piece Construct/5 Piece Ravager build (3 piece ogrim as its all i had) on PTS.

Its full heavy armor..and actually works decently with 1 handed/shield and 2 hander.

Its made crits a lot more manageable knocking them down an extra 20%

Resources still get depleted fast though...

Interesting, I'm using 5 pieces of Ravaging already, but would have to swap around some pieces to add Construct.

I was goofing around in Cyrodiil just now & found my staff/1h&sh build was doing a lot better when I just hung back & fired off heavy attacks. The snare from the Mephala set procs often enough that it was noticeable.

Tankqull · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Im not certain we disagree here. Im just saying crit is contributing to that.

Fair point, and as @Sharee pointed out, if many of the EU testers are running around in zero Impen gear (due to not having their own toons on PTS yet) then I can totally understand why they're upset about getting destroyed before they can even react. More to point, I think I'm leaning in the direction of what @Feidam said that once you are FULLY invested in Crit reduction (like true PvPers would be) then it's not as much of an issue. This lends some credibility to ZoS actually listening to PvPers and giving them a palpable advantage over fluffy care bears who step into their domain (Cyro) hoping to play with the big dogs. Time will tell ofc, and I'd wager they change MANY things before it hits Live.

Nacario wrote: »

Less chance of 1vX now, at least you'll need to be more careful and aware.

This bums me out a little though as I felt 1vX and Duos are a great mechanic in Cyro. Sure they aren't countering zergs but that's not the point either. And if I'm being honest, small group PvP is some of the best times I've had in Cyro. But I admit I do love a good zerg group, especially run by @Yodased

the problem here is the needed amount of points spent. if you´ll have to gather 3-400 CP points (thx to the circular gain of the CPs) to remotely reach the status quo again. thats by far to much pve involved [as pvp will be like allways no viable way of earning xp] so we are forced to pve the *** out of our IG-time...
while people were already blaming the grind implemented...