Would you like dmg shields/heals to become more, or less prevalent in PvP?

DDuke

I tried to make this poll as unbiased as possible, but if you'd like to read my own thoughts about the changes coming with Champion System, I have made another thread here on official forums:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143544/champion-system-its-implications-on-build-diversity

I also made a poll asking if players use dmg shield or heal on either weapon bar.
Poll results (114 votes) indicate that 18% are using a heal, 7% a dmg shield, 68% a dmg shield and a heal and only 5% use neither.
Link: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144002/do-you-have-a-heal-or-a-dmg-shield-slotted-on-your-hotbar

DDuke

Interesting results so far, keep those votes coming

I'm sure this'll be valuable information for ZOS.

Sallington

Other (describe below)

Why are you grouping damage shields with heals?

AlexDougherty

Other (describe below)

I would like to see advantages and disadvantages applied to using heals and shields. Maybe you can heal yourself but give yourself a specific vulnerability for a while.

Something to make fighting tactical, not sure if the vulnerability should be predermined or random, but that's the way I would go.

DDuke

Sallington wrote: »

Why are you grouping damage shields with heals?

Good question. I grouped them together, because they contribute to the same general playstyle you see in PvP.

I could've been more specific of course (e.g. "I'd like to see more dmg shields, but less heals" or "I'd like to see less dmg shields only" etc).
I guess I just like to keep it simple (good thing I included the "Other" category).

firstdecan

Other (describe below)

I could probably write a lot about this, I'll try to keep myself from inventing a novel.

I think there's enough heals in the game, and that's a pretty basic task. Someone's health goes down, heal them and bring it back up. More could be said about buffing resistances and negating effects in a timely manner, but basic healing is basic healing.

What I would really like to see is more diversity in damage shields. The game already has several different types of damage sources, but I do not think they are thought out enough. I would like to see more of a rock \ paper \ scissors type of interplay when it comes to damage. Right now we have

• Melee Damage
• Ranged Damage
• Poison Damage
• Disease Damage
• Fire Damage
• Ice Damage
• Lightning Damage

You do damage with one or two types of those, and can buff resistances to one or two types of those. You can also buff generic physical \ magic damage resistances. I think it would be better if these were arranged in some type of wheel of interdependency, so that you have to be selective about the shields that you use. For example, a Ranged damage shield would work well against ranged damage, but only be partially effective against Melee and Lightning and then ineffective against others. It may be beneficial to have more partial effects, like a Ranged shield completely blocks ranged damage, is partial against Melee, Poison, Lighting, and Fire, but ineffective against Ice and Disease (these are just random examples).

This is just a general thought, it's not completely fleshed out \ balanced as is, but I think having more damage shields, but only having them effective against certain types of damage would make the game more interesting. There would be other rebalancing aspects that would have to come into play, such as increasing the damage type diversity available to players, as well as factoring in CC effects \ resistances. Overall though, it becomes interesting because you wouldn't know what type of damage a character will throw at you, or what types of resistances they have up (until it's telegraphed).

bosmern_ESO

I would like there to be less dmg shields & heals

Less, its annoying fighting someone that constantly stacks shields and holds block and its almost impossible to kill.

DDuke

firstdecan wrote: »

I could probably write a lot about this, I'll try to keep myself from inventing a novel.

I think there's enough heals in the game, and that's a pretty basic task. Someone's health goes down, heal them and bring it back up. More could be said about buffing resistances and negating effects in a timely manner, but basic healing is basic healing.

What I would really like to see is more diversity in damage shields. The game already has several different types of damage sources, but I do not think they are thought out enough. I would like to see more of a rock \ paper \ scissors type of interplay when it comes to damage. Right now we have

• Melee Damage
• Ranged Damage
• Poison Damage
• Disease Damage
• Fire Damage
• Ice Damage
• Lightning Damage

You do damage with one or two types of those, and can buff resistances to one or two types of those. You can also buff generic physical \ magic damage resistances. I think it would be better if these were arranged in some type of wheel of interdependency, so that you have to be selective about the shields that you use. For example, a Ranged damage shield would work well against ranged damage, but only be partially effective against Melee and Lightning and then ineffective against others. It may be beneficial to have more partial effects, like a Ranged shield completely blocks ranged damage, is partial against Melee, Poison, Lighting, and Fire, but ineffective against Ice and Disease (these are just random examples).

This is just a general thought, it's not completely fleshed out \ balanced as is, but I think having more damage shields, but only having them effective against certain types of damage would make the game more interesting. There would be other rebalancing aspects that would have to come into play, such as increasing the damage type diversity available to players, as well as factoring in CC effects \ resistances. Overall though, it becomes interesting because you wouldn't know what type of damage a character will throw at you, or what types of resistances they have up (until it's telegraphed).

Interesting proposition.

How would you make these very specific dmg shields appealing over the already existing ones that provide protection against everything?

I would love to see something like a "Fire Shield" that protects you from fire based damage for X amount & burns nearby enemies while active

Maybe if they made spell dmg & healing separate, and made these really "specific" shields still scale off spell damage, while the more diverse shields scaled off spell healing?

This would make it so that pure DPS "mage" type characters could have some shields that fit the archetype but have drawbacks, while the people who wanted to be tanky against everything would have to sacrifice some of their dmg in order to do that.

Just my thoughts

timidobserver

If you think heals are OP learn to heal debuff stack.

DDuke

timidobserver wrote: »

If you think heals are OP learn to heal debuff stack.

The poll isn't about whether heals (or dmg shields) are OP though, it's simply about whether you'd like to see more, or less people with them in PvP.
Trying to keep this neutral & unbiased (thus I'm not even voting on my own poll).

DDuke

Update: I made a poll on the Alliance War forum for research purposes and it turns out that out of the 114 votes only 5% are not using a dmg shield or a heal in Cyrodiil.

Link: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144002/do-you-have-a-heal-or-a-dmg-shield-slotted-on-your-hotbar

NordJitsu

I would like there to be less dmg shields & heals

The buff consolidation should take care of damage shield stacking, right?

DDuke

NordJitsu wrote: »

The buff consolidation should take care of damage shield stacking, right?

Yes, it should, but there will be dmg shields from Champion System passives, such as:

• dmg shield when blocking
• dmg shield when drinking potions
• dmg shield from resurrecting someone (or getting resurrected)

Source: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-details/

firstdecan

Other (describe below)

DDuke wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

I could probably write a lot about this, I'll try to keep myself from inventing a novel.

I think there's enough heals in the game, and that's a pretty basic task. Someone's health goes down, heal them and bring it back up. More could be said about buffing resistances and negating effects in a timely manner, but basic healing is basic healing.

What I would really like to see is more diversity in damage shields. The game already has several different types of damage sources, but I do not think they are thought out enough. I would like to see more of a rock \ paper \ scissors type of interplay when it comes to damage. Right now we have

• Melee Damage
• Ranged Damage
• Poison Damage
• Disease Damage
• Fire Damage
• Ice Damage
• Lightning Damage

You do damage with one or two types of those, and can buff resistances to one or two types of those. You can also buff generic physical \ magic damage resistances. I think it would be better if these were arranged in some type of wheel of interdependency, so that you have to be selective about the shields that you use. For example, a Ranged damage shield would work well against ranged damage, but only be partially effective against Melee and Lightning and then ineffective against others. It may be beneficial to have more partial effects, like a Ranged shield completely blocks ranged damage, is partial against Melee, Poison, Lighting, and Fire, but ineffective against Ice and Disease (these are just random examples).

This is just a general thought, it's not completely fleshed out \ balanced as is, but I think having more damage shields, but only having them effective against certain types of damage would make the game more interesting. There would be other rebalancing aspects that would have to come into play, such as increasing the damage type diversity available to players, as well as factoring in CC effects \ resistances. Overall though, it becomes interesting because you wouldn't know what type of damage a character will throw at you, or what types of resistances they have up (until it's telegraphed).

Interesting proposition.

How would you make these very specific dmg shields appealing over the already existing ones that provide protection against everything?

I would love to see something like a "Fire Shield" that protects you from fire based damage for X amount & burns nearby enemies while active

Maybe if they made spell dmg & healing separate, and made these really "specific" shields still scale off spell damage, while the more diverse shields scaled off spell healing?

This would make it so that pure DPS "mage" type characters could have some shields that fit the archetype but have drawbacks, while the people who wanted to be tanky against everything would have to sacrifice some of their dmg in order to do that.

Just my thoughts

I like the your thoughts.

To make these types of shields appealing, you would simply make them more potent against the specific attacks they would counter, or you would nerf the existing shields that protect against everything (which may not be necessary). Existing damage shields protect against a certain specific amount of damage. These shields could negate a percentage of damage without a cap. Have them negate 80% of damage for their primary type of damage, and only 50% of damage for the secondary damage types.

Again, this isn't completely thought out, just throwing some ideas out there.

Samadhi

Q: How are damage shields being affected by these changes? Are the values of damage shields being scaled by a larger factor than health so they are more impactful? Currently the effectiveness of damage shields is really limited because you only get a small fraction of the size of the shield in actual damage mitigation.

A: You can have as many Damage Shields as you want basically. Health has been increased by a large amount, but we’ve seen that damage shields are extremely useful. For example, as a Templar tank, being able to cast a sun shield before the boss hits you increases your max theoretical health, even if it’s not by the exact value of the damage shield it doesn’t get all the defensive bonuses other things do. Since you can cast shields over and over again, they have proven to be very impactful in our trial and dungeon testing.

Link: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

Glory

Other (describe below)

I don't disagree with your thoughts on damage shields Decimus (about the increasing quantity I mean). There are going to be even more stackable shields, which I find interesting.

Still, I think shields and heals are actually essential, since without them most players would die in a matter of seconds to stupid stealth snipe spam.

I'd rather see less reliance on spamming skills than less shields/heals. Even though I love the no CD thing, being able to press one button (be it snipe, HW, GDB, whatever) to win is stupid IMO.

Stalwart385

I would like there to be more dmg shields & heals

I have a hard time voting against shields and heals. I prefer longer drawn out battles. If you get into longer battles its rare to see people recasting all those shields. Maybe one or two in a rotation. It's only an issue in burst situations. I don't see how you would ride around in cyrodil without some kind of heal, shield or escapability. You're going to get jumped eventually and sometimes you travel a long ways to get there.

BRogueNZ

Other (describe below)

Sure. Nerf damage to the point a shield of any description is unnecessary and we can choose to not use any other than for cosmetic reasons.

DDuke

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I have a hard time voting against shields and heals. I prefer longer drawn out battles. If you get into longer battles its rare to see people recasting all those shields. Maybe one or two in a rotation. It's only an issue in burst situations. I don't see how you would ride around in cyrodil without some kind of heal, shield or escapability. You're going to get jumped eventually and sometimes you travel a long ways to get there.

Other MMOs have done it perfectly fine, without giving everyone a dmg shield/heal (just saying)

Other forms of defense: stealth, blocking, skills that reduce dmg taken etc

Derra

Other (describe below)

DDuke wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I have a hard time voting against shields and heals. I prefer longer drawn out battles. If you get into longer battles its rare to see people recasting all those shields. Maybe one or two in a rotation. It's only an issue in burst situations. I don't see how you would ride around in cyrodil without some kind of heal, shield or escapability. You're going to get jumped eventually and sometimes you travel a long ways to get there.

Other MMOs have done it perfectly fine, without giving everyone a dmg shield/heal (just saying)

Other forms of defense: stealth, blocking, skills that reduce dmg taken etc

What other MMOs would that be?

I think its fine as it is apart from the broken harness magica against magica users.

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I have a hard time voting against shields and heals. I prefer longer drawn out battles. If you get into longer battles its rare to see people recasting all those shields. Maybe one or two in a rotation. It's only an issue in burst situations. I don't see how you would ride around in cyrodil without some kind of heal, shield or escapability. You're going to get jumped eventually and sometimes you travel a long ways to get there.

Other MMOs have done it perfectly fine, without giving everyone a dmg shield/heal (just saying)

Other forms of defense: stealth, blocking, skills that reduce dmg taken etc

What other MMOs would that be?

I think its fine as it is apart from the broken harness magica against magica users.

WoW, Rift, SWTOR, GW1, GW2, Aion, TERA... should I go on?

Pretty much every MMO out there.