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Since combat animations are under review...

Lynx7386
Lynx7386
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We've heard that with 1.6 some combat animations will also be getting improvements to make combat feel a little more realistic, less "floaty", so on and so forth.
I'd like to suggest that, with this animation review, the animation team go through and actually create unique combat animations for each weapon type.

What I mean by weapon type is: Swords vs axes vs maces vs daggers, so on and so forth. Each of these weapons, despite using the same skill tree, should have unique animations linked to them.

A dual wielder using a pair of daggers should have a completely different appearance and set of movements in combat than a dual wielder using a pair of hammers or axes. These weapons are designed to be used differently: Daggers are for stabbing, swords are for slicing, axes are for chopping, maces/hammers are for smashing.

Currently one of the complaints regarding animations in ESO is that some attacks look ridiculous when wielding certain weapon types. For example, using the rapid strikes attack for dual wield when equipped with a pair of axes or maces looks absurd - you commit to a series of jabs and stabs with the blunt end of a weapon that is not designed for stabbing. The animation looks fine for daggers, but even swords (which are potential stabbing weapons) look strange with the rapid strikes animation due to their larger size.

Similarly, when using 1h+shield, if you're equipped with a mace and use the puncture ability, you 'stab' the target with the blunt top of the mace. The animation really detracts from immersion in your chosen combat style.

Even combat stances need an overview in regards to what type of weapon you're using. Wielding two daggers is going to necessitate a different combat ready stance than wielding two hammers or axes. Wielding a two handed sword requires a different stance than the much-heavier maul or battleaxe.

Essentially, each weapon type for 1h/shield, dual wield, and two-handed needs to be seperated and have it's own set of unique animations and combat stances applied. Yes, this is a big task that's going to require a lot of motion capture and animator work, and probably no small amount of coding as well, but I think that it's worth the effort in the long run.



In addition, doing this now would make it much easier to add new weapon types to these trees in the future. If a player using 1h+shield already has different combat animations and stances when wielding a mace, axe, sword, or dagger, it's a natural step forward to add a new set of combat animations for, say, 1 handed spears to be utilized with the 1h+shield line. Now you're able to add an entire new weapon type to the game without having to add in new skill trees or try to balance new abilities: you just need to add the weapon models and animations, and your spears are now working with the 1h+shield skills.

The same goes for other weapon types. Flails and morning stars can be added to the 1h/shield or dual wield lines with their own animation sets. Polearms/Pikes can be added to the 2handed weapon line with their own animation sets. Undertaking these animation changes now is going to make it much easier on the devs in the future when they want to expand the weapon selection the game offers to its players.



Finally, while it's not as critical, the same measures can be taken for the different destruction staff types. Having unique animations between fire, frost, and lightning staves would probably help liven up the battlefield a bit more, and could even attract players into using the sub-optimal frost or lightning staff types rather than having everyone wielding fire staffs.

Just food for thought.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
  • ers101284b14_ESO
    ers101284b14_ESO
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    I skimmed the post and think I got the gist of it. I do agree that animations should be different depending on the weapon and how its used and all that. I am still wondering what the improvements are since we haven't really gotten any sort of look at them. And it very well might be on PTS before the next live show. So gotta wait and see. I hope they have weighted running too since I miss that from FFXIV 1.0. I like being able to run then skid to a halt before running the other way. Just makes it feel cool.

    Either way giving you an awesome.
  • Relyk04
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    I like where your head is at. I thought it'd be nice if they also added directional combat animation where the weapon swing mechanics differ if I'm strafing right/left or forward/backward. This is similar to how Skyrim would change the combat style based on the direction we were moving. I think this would add some appeal and 'life' to combat since right now our basic swing patterns are the same regardless of weapon type and movement direction.
  • Aoife32001
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    Relyk04 wrote: »
    I like where your head is at. I thought it'd be nice if they also added directional combat animation where the weapon swing mechanics differ if I'm strafing right/left or forward/backward. This is similar to how Skyrim would change the combat style based on the direction we were moving. I think this would add some appeal and 'life' to combat since right now our basic swing patterns are the same regardless of weapon type and movement direction.

    This is how every Elder Scrolls game I have played has done it. It is sadly lacking in ESO...
    I hope they have weighted running too since I miss that from FFXIV 1.0. I like being able to run then skid to a halt before running the other way.

    Also, this would be awesome.
    Edited by Aoife32001 on 27 December 2014 04:01
  • AshySamurai
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    Very nice thoughts. Not sure I want to see flials or spears in game. But now we are talking about animation. Correct me, but ZOS planning to improve animation in 1.6. IMO it's better to see what ZOS will do in 1.6.

    Also, about Puncture, Rapid Strikes and other stabbing skills. It would be far more easier to add a little spike to all hammers/axes/maces than implement new animation to every weapon type.
    Edited by AshySamurai on 27 December 2014 04:52
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    I've spoken about this before. I think there's an even deeper issue at hand with the animations than simply poking people with the soft blunt end of your mace (as ridiculous as that is). Almost every single animation is swung with haymaker logic. A haymaker is just about the worst way to strike someone in a fight, and is the antithesis of what a skilled fighter or (Super)Hero would have. Haymakers really only work in the context of fighting someone who is a terrible fighter or in the case of having worn out or weakened someone so badly that you could just as easily coup de grace or where two unskilled opponents face off and one is clearly the athletic and physical superior.

    It defies believability that someone who is a Master of the Sword and Shield would spend full on 80% of the time with his shield swung wildly behind his back. While buckler/heater and a center grip shield such as a Hoplite or 'Viking shield' are wielded in different ways they fundamentally change the way someone fights, and are as much a part of offense as defense in their fundamental combat style. Shields are used as much to create openings as they are to defend (even in turtle formation).

    The other ridiculous part of the animations are what I would call 'the windup'. Weapons are being swung as though your character is playing baseball or golf, and that their opponent is not actually trying to simultaneously kill them. Believe it or not, it actually doesn't take a significant amount of force to kill someone with a sword. Realistically speaking, the Sword is a precision weapon, even among armored knights, perhaps more so. I think my point is more or less made, and I won't labor the point any further.

    There are really two reasons why video game designers like to display the wild swing for their heroes. First and foremost is that it just looks flashier, but I suppose I would rather just see my character make the occasional flourish than flap around like a buffoon on the battlefield. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly is that they are trying to convey information both to the player and other player opposition that your character is attacking. In other words, the incredulous haymaker windup is there to say ' Raise your Shield!'. In reality, I don't think any half decent fighter would want to flail his shield around except for a very few rare or unlikely instances, nor swing their sword with a wild haymaker strike. The real question I have is how can the developers balance these two things?
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
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    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Lynx7386
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    Agreed on those points as well, part of the reason I'm looking forward to the animation fixes that are supposedly coming in 1.6 is because there's a chance we may end up looking like proper, trained combatants and not fresh green recruits who have never held a weapon before. I find it exceedingly difficult to believe that one can become a hero of their chosen alliance, survive the war in cyrodiil long enough to obtain a significant ranking, and go on to fight and kill daedra and the lord of brutality without ever learning how to properly use their chosen armaments.

    Also, your post brought something else to mind: bashing/interrupting. Currently, no matter what weapon type you're using, you do a pretty pathetic 'bunt' to interrupt casts (unless you're using a shield, then you get a somewhat reasonable shield bash).

    It would be nice if, with some weapons/weapon types, the bash animation were changed. For example, if you're using a staff, why not change the bash animation to whacking them over the head with your stick? If you're wielding a two handed weapon, why not change the bash animation to a well placed kick (which not only knocks the wind out of your opponent, but puts them at optimal striking range for the end of your weapon)? If you're dual wielding, why not a pommel strike or a nice backhand? All of those seem like they'd be far more effective at knocking someone off balance or interrupting a spell than the current bunt we've got.
    PS4 / NA
    M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
    Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
    Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
    Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
    Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
  • WhiskyBob
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    I don't care what new animations will be unless they ruin macro abusers.
  • duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO
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    It defies believability that someone who is a Master of the Sword and Shield would spend full on 80% of the time with his shield swung wildly behind his back.
    Right you are, but then what to expect for people that consider oats and tomatoes rare ingredients in food. At least they are consistent in their ignorance.

    Back to the OP topic: Yes this would be very nice indeed, but apart from the aesthetic issue, I would really prefer that animations and actual skill (with weapon type used, if possible) would align.

    You know a sort of: "What you see is what you get" type of fighting.
    And not just by the attacker!

    Worst problem in fighting is the lack of feedback when you have been hit, especially with all that light attack weaving / animation canceling going on.

    Far too often the only way to see that you actually have been attacked at all, is on the death screen replay; and there all non-damaging skills, as well as time-stamps are lacking.

    More often than not, you hear/see one attack landing only to find out that somewhen/somehow a dozen others have come from the same source.

    Without proper feedback, no way to react or counter.

    Add to this the constant stunning going on in PvP (even if you would know about being attacked, you can't do *** about it...)

    Well, stuns should - as they have in a real fight - a tremendous effort attached: You don't stun someone easily or repeatedly.
  • Lynx7386
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    Agreed, hard to tell you're even being hit sometimes with the way the current system is, as your character doesnt respond visually to the attack(s). The same problem is causing combat to feel 'floaty' when your own attacks dont cause the enemy to stagger or react in any way.

    Something you said brought another idea to mind, though:
    I would really prefer that animations and actual skill (with weapon type used, if possible) would align.

    While going way beyond what's needed, It would certainly be interesting if your attack animations with a weapon changed appearance with the level of skill the weapon is at. For example, if you're at skill level 5 with two handed weapons, your attacks look really clumsy and untrained, but at level 50 with two handed weapons your attacks would look very disciplined and precise.
    PS4 / NA
    M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
    Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
    Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
    Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
    Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
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