WHY ESO DOESN'T FEEL LIKE A TES GAME - SOLO PVE

Rosveen · December 2014

.

Audigy wrote: »

I always hear zones and I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

ESO doesn't have any zones or big loading screens, I played through most of the story now especially in Beta and there are hardly any loading screens.

Its just like WOW is, you can travel from A to B without the required of a loading screen unless you change the continent.

AOC has loading screens, GW2 had them but ESO?

They're talking about travelling from Grahtwood to Greenshade without a loading screen. It can't be done.

Audigy · December 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I always hear zones and I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

ESO doesn't have any zones or big loading screens, I played through most of the story now especially in Beta and there are hardly any loading screens.?

Um, Deshaan, Glenumbra, Auridon, Grahtwood, A'kiir Desert, these are all zones.

Well so is Elwynn forest, Arathi Highlands or Badlands

But so far I have yet to see a loading screen, I always travel on the roads and only have loading screens if I enter an instance.

If I compare this to AOC where you had a loading screen as soon you entered a new territory or left a town.. that was something to complain about

Neizir · December 2014

Audigy wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I always hear zones and I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

ESO doesn't have any zones or big loading screens, I played through most of the story now especially in Beta and there are hardly any loading screens.?

Um, Deshaan, Glenumbra, Auridon, Grahtwood, A'kiir Desert, these are all zones.

Well so is Elwynn forest, Arathi Highlands or Badlands

But so far I have yet to see a loading screen, I always travel on the roads and only have loading screens if I enter an instance.

If I compare this to AOC where you had a loading screen as soon you entered a new territory or left a town.. that was something to complain about

So do you have 50 superpowerful SSDs in your computer so when you enter a new zone you don't get a loading screen?
That's strange.
Say you enter from Stonefalls to Deshaan (Both of those are zones). Are you saying that you don't get a loading screen and you just seamlessly transfer into it?
Strange.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Neizir wrote: »

@AlexDougherty WoW and GW2 among many other MMOs manage to do it, so i don't see why ESO can't. I know that WoW and GW2 were initially designed that way but surely it can't be that hard to implement it into ESO? All they're essentially doing is merging the current 22 zones together to create 5 giant zones in total (Ebonheart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant, Aldmeri Dominion, Cyrodiil, Coldharbour). A loading screen for Cyrodiil and between the faction areas may be necessary in order to lessen lag.

@Neizir It's virtually impossible to do it after you've built the game, I agree that they could have designed the game that way, but they didn't.

In order to remove the borders, they would have to rewrite the game. I'm not against the game borderless, but it needs to be made that way in the beginning, it can't be added afterwards.

That really depends how they designed the game. I can recollect City of Heroes started to build a phasing system that made moving from area to area more natural. In essence you could see across to the other side, and while there was a bit of a hiccup or whatnot, it transitioned very smoothly. So theoretically if their engine can support it, it might be possible. I just don't think its necessarily good or feasible for them to put their efforts into doing this, and I think you're right about zones/phasing in this regard AlexDougherty.

Personally, I don't mind the zones being separated although I have to agree that I did love the sense of openness in the previous TES games. The thing is, difficulty was often separated by things like mountains, islands, et cetera. Take Morrowind for instance. Hard content often had intermediate enemies wandering between you and your easy area. It was possible, even simple to go as a level 1 almost anywhere you went, but it took work. In an mmo, it might be hard to give that same explorative feel. I've tried hopping around on mountains like the Skyrim Billgoat that I was, and it just doesn't work in this game. Nevertheless, for an MMO this game really gets the exploration thing right.

If I had to say what I'm missing the most from previous games, it would almost be what I'd define as the 'loot system' of previous TES games. The Loot system includes what amount of weight you can carry, and where do you stash that loot, namely your home. Morrowind was actually somewhat weak in this regard, although there were a few reasonable safehouses you could stash things. My personal favorite was Tel Uvirith. Oblivion and Skyrim had loot storage spot on though. As someone who likes to loot, I suppose I find the lack of a weight-based system a little bit frustrating. Why do my maps take up 1/4th of my inventory space? Why do my trinkets take up another 1/4th? How can carrying 100 pieces of armor/swords come close to the weight of 100 maps? I'll grant that from a realism perspective, it is pretty amazing to be carrying what our characters do carry - and still fight. Anyway for me, I just wish we had proper solid housing in the game where I can stash my well loved loot.

P.S.: Pvp materials like siege repair, wall repair, ballistas, etc are also notoriously bad at filling up loot. I've got major inventory problems because of this. I realize its pretty silly to be holding a ballista in your backpack, but if I can hold it in a backpack, I really wish I could stack it. I've got trouble enough with costumes/trinkets/maps/Alternate Set Gear alone.

Eiron77 · December 2014

I've been thinking about the zones ruining immersion in ESO lately.

My suggestion is, they add a big Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind esque PvE zone for endlevel players. It would be similar in size and scope like the PvP Cyrodiil zone.

This way, they keep the current leveling zones and loading screens without a complete overhaul of their game engine and end level players will have a large zone to explore and enjoy, similar to the single player TES games. They can design it to have all the familiar features of those game maps and everyone is happy.

I like ESO's current design, but the zones feel too small and structured. Everything you do feels governed and limited. A big zone like I described above would be totally possible within their current game engine. And with "campaigns" to enter it, so you don't overwhelm your screen with 500+ players.

It would be totally awesome I think.

bedlom · December 2014

I agree with this thread

Mandragora · December 2014

Im not sure if I want this... It doesnt seem to me really important in most of his points - like the loot system. Also the games were quite different from each other so the whole thread doesnt make really sense. Why not concentrate on what is really important in this game to change/improve?

Eiron77 · December 2014

I agree Mandragora, that a lot of what the OP is asking for isnt necessary. But as far as the zones are concerned, I would like at least a big zone like Cyrodiil as i mentioned above. To add more enjoyability and sandboxish exploration to the game.

RSram · December 2014

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

It doesn't feel like a TES open world sandbox game because it is a themepark disguised as a TES sandbox game.

Remember the roving mobs in Oblivion? The imperial guards that would travel the highways?

Remember the assassin squads in skyrim that would travel across the map to find you? Which you promptly dragon shouted off a cliff and they actually took fall damage?

Now picture the silly 3 pack mobs that sit in their magic agro circle staring right at you and ignore you till you cross the threshold.

Then they hate you till they get too far away and rubber band back to their magic parking spot with full health and forget about you again. Even if they fell off a cliff.

Notice a difference?

Yea, this is one thing that I think would make ESO more fun is if the enemy NPC's would target you as soon as they see you instead of waiting until you enter their collision zone, but I can see where this could create problems in a MMO game with multiple players. Small encounters could do this such as the mini dolmens where they will attack you as soon as they appear.

I have a problem with the 1990's vintage AI techniques used in the game where you use enormous health and numbers to make up for the lack of IA to create difficult combat.

The game has too few moments that are unpredictable.

Skyrim had many unpredictable moments like dragons attacking the villages and towns; it was really cool watching the townsfolk fighting the dragons.

One of the most memorable moments for me in Skyrim was when a dragon broke through the ice right next to me when I wasn't expecting it and just as the awe sh*t factor kicked in, another dragon broke through the ice behind me as I was backing up, fighting the first dragon.

It's the unexpected events that make games great.

HydroCanuck · December 2014

Sigh. You cannot compare a single player RPG to an MMORPG

TRIP233 · December 2014

I agree with most of your points. As for the zones... It's an MMO and I think they went the best way they could with that... As for looting... We need to be able to take everything off of dead enemy's. With the crafting quests now, we need to farm them for their items so we can decon them so we can do the quests because I don't want to farm nodes that may or may not have been farmed from other people. And you're right, to prevent farming it for gold it could be 0 gold when looting the dead.

Hanokihs · December 2014

RSram wrote: »

The game has too few moments that are unpredictable.

Skyrim had many unpredictable moments like dragons attacking the villages and towns; it was really cool watching the townsfolk fighting the dragons.

[...] It's the unexpected events that make games great.

Emphasis mine, because OMFG, I hated that nonsense. Every time I heard a dragon coming for Riverwood, I just sighed and reloaded a previous save. Why would the townsfolk would be too stupid to just run inside and hide from the giant, Legendary-class hate-beast that was about to swoop down and murder them all?! Same with vampire attacks, and they even attacked in the big cities, like Whiterun!

In a game like this, where choices and changes are permanent, I do NOT want to have my cities and towns turn into wastelands because the RNG gods woke up one Thursday and decided to hate my face and all that it stands for. No thank you. Do not want.

Audigy · December 2014

Neizir wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I always hear zones and I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

ESO doesn't have any zones or big loading screens, I played through most of the story now especially in Beta and there are hardly any loading screens.?

Um, Deshaan, Glenumbra, Auridon, Grahtwood, A'kiir Desert, these are all zones.

Well so is Elwynn forest, Arathi Highlands or Badlands

But so far I have yet to see a loading screen, I always travel on the roads and only have loading screens if I enter an instance.

If I compare this to AOC where you had a loading screen as soon you entered a new territory or left a town.. that was something to complain about

So do you have 50 superpowerful SSDs in your computer so when you enter a new zone you don't get a loading screen?
That's strange.
Say you enter from Stonefalls to Deshaan (Both of those are zones). Are you saying that you don't get a loading screen and you just seamlessly transfer into it?
Strange.

I don't know what having an SSD would have to do with that, care to elaborate?

The game is coded for all players in the same way, your hardware has zero to do with how loading screens appear

My char moved from Glenumbra to Rivenspire, no loading screens. I just walked on the road.

Also when I left Stonefalls, I didn't encounter any loading screens - I just moved across a bridge and was in I believe Rift but it could have been Deshaan too its been a while.

When I play next time I will test this just to make sure but in the end I believe you understand something different either under loading screen and a zone than I do.

A loading screen is when you enter the bank but its not a new zone.

Akselmo · December 2014

I agree with your points, but keep in mind that ESO is barely one year old and some of these things you said probably will be implemented, but it's gonna take a loooooong while. Making games is slow work, especially something as big as ESO.

I hope that the game will get gradually better, and I'm sure it will, but it takes time.. And I'm worried the game might die out before that...

Mandragora · December 2014

Maybe my problem with this post is that what I miss most from previous games and what really is not in ESO are factions from Morrowind and better/bigger guilds from Oblivion, nothing else really does matter for me. And he didnt mention it at all.
And some things he said that are not in ESO are not truth - as memorable characters or epic views or mixed bandits.

So yes only larger zones would be something I could agree with. I started to play other MMO again and it was so big relief to be able to travel a bit before reaching something else - not to have salamanders behind a city walls or so.

EQOAnostalgia · December 2014

Sadly my man we just aren't there yet in terms of being able to do those things in an mmo effectively. There is a reason a lot of it is omitted. The weather as one person already said would put stress on the server. Also the zone thing... wide open worlds feel amazing, i know because EverQuest Online Adventures had them, you could see the transitions from one area to another...

BUT it also severely limited what could be rendered in an area. Most of EQOA was essentially just an open field with mobs creeping around to kill and camps scattered about here and there. Not many features like buildings or towns at all. It's all well and fine that single player TES games have no loading outside of dungeons and towns but they are also a single province such as Morrowind and Skyrim! Not the entirety of Nirn... sure a lot of places have yet to be added to ESO but it covers all of the province's.

I agree with your points here, but some of them just don't work in mmorpg's sadly. I wish they did. Nevertheless i liked this post and i do believe if those things could be done the game would be much much better.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Neizir wrote: »

@AlexDougherty WoW and GW2 among many other MMOs manage to do it, so i don't see why ESO can't. I know that WoW and GW2 were initially designed that way but surely it can't be that hard to implement it into ESO? All they're essentially doing is merging the current 22 zones together to create 5 giant zones in total (Ebonheart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant, Aldmeri Dominion, Cyrodiil, Coldharbour). A loading screen for Cyrodiil and between the faction areas may be necessary in order to lessen lag.

@Neizir It's virtually impossible to do it after you've built the game, I agree that they could have designed the game that way, but they didn't.

In order to remove the borders, they would have to rewrite the game. I'm not against the game borderless, but it needs to be made that way in the beginning, it can't be added afterwards.

That really depends how they designed the game. I can recollect City of Heroes started to build a phasing system that made moving from area to area more natural. In essence you could see across to the other side, and while there was a bit of a hiccup or whatnot, it transitioned very smoothly. So theoretically if their engine can support it, it might be possible. I just don't think its necessarily good or feasible for them to put their efforts into doing this, and I think you're right about zones/phasing in this regard AlexDougherty.

Personally, I don't mind the zones being separated although I have to agree that I did love the sense of openness in the previous TES games. The thing is, difficulty was often separated by things like mountains, islands, et cetera. Take Morrowind for instance. Hard content often had intermediate enemies wandering between you and your easy area. It was possible, even simple to go as a level 1 almost anywhere you went, but it took work. In an mmo, it might be hard to give that same explorative feel. I've tried hopping around on mountains like the Skyrim Billgoat that I was, and it just doesn't work in this game. Nevertheless, for an MMO this game really gets the exploration thing right.

Likewise, I have no issues myself with the way they split the game into zones, and likewise I would have loved it if it had been a huge map.

I didn't know about city of Heroes, so thanks for the example, If they could make it transition that would be great, but I suspect it isn't.

If I had to say what I'm missing the most from previous games, it would almost be what I'd define as the 'loot system' of previous TES games. The Loot system includes what amount of weight you can carry, and where do you stash that loot, namely your home. Morrowind was actually somewhat weak in this regard, although there were a few reasonable safehouses you could stash things. My personal favorite was Tel Uvirith. Oblivion and Skyrim had loot storage spot on though. As someone who likes to loot, I suppose I find the lack of a weight-based system a little bit frustrating. Why do my maps take up 1/4th of my inventory space? Why do my trinkets take up another 1/4th? How can carrying 100 pieces of armor/swords come close to the weight of 100 maps? I'll grant that from a realism perspective, it is pretty amazing to be carrying what our characters do carry - and still fight. Anyway for me, I just wish we had proper solid housing in the game where I can stash my well loved loot.

P.S.: Pvp materials like siege repair, wall repair, ballistas, etc are also notoriously bad at filling up loot. I've got major inventory problems because of this. I realize its pretty silly to be holding a ballista in your backpack, but if I can hold it in a backpack, I really wish I could stack it. I've got trouble enough with costumes/trinkets/maps/Alternate Set Gear alone.

I'm of mixed opinion about the way the loot/inventory has been handled, on one hand it doesn't make sense in terms of size and weight, on the other we have no houses and nobody want to have to start throwing away cuirasses (or robes or staff) mid-quest because they are too big to lug around (research would take fifty times longer that way).

AlexDougherty · December 2014

Audigy wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I always hear zones and I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

ESO doesn't have any zones or big loading screens, I played through most of the story now especially in Beta and there are hardly any loading screens.?

Um, Deshaan, Glenumbra, Auridon, Grahtwood, A'kiir Desert, these are all zones.

Well so is Elwynn forest, Arathi Highlands or Badlands

But so far I have yet to see a loading screen, I always travel on the roads and only have loading screens if I enter an instance.

If I compare this to AOC where you had a loading screen as soon you entered a new territory or left a town.. that was something to complain about

I always get a loading screen when I travel from one zone to another.

It doesn't last long, and I'm not the one complaining (compared to some games this is heaven on a plate)(heck even without the comparison to other games the loading screens aren't bad), but I do get a loading screen.

SRIBES · December 2014

HydroCanuck wrote: »

Sigh. You cannot compare a single player RPG to an MMORPG

I'm not comparing them. Elder scrolls online uses the elder scrolls title in it. Some of the things I talked about can be implemented into an MMO and some can't. I'm simply talking about why it doesn't feel like a TES title and suggesting how it could feel like one.

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

Eiron77 wrote: »

I've been thinking about the zones ruining immersion in ESO lately.

My suggestion is, they add a big Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind esque PvE zone for endlevel players. It would be similar in size and scope like the PvP Cyrodiil zone.

This way, they keep the current leveling zones and loading screens without a complete overhaul of their game engine and end level players will have a large zone to explore and enjoy, similar to the single player TES games. They can design it to have all the familiar features of those game maps and everyone is happy.

I like ESO's current design, but the zones feel too small and structured. Everything you do feels governed and limited. A big zone like I described above would be totally possible within their current game engine. And with "campaigns" to enter it, so you don't overwhelm your screen with 500+ players.

It would be totally awesome I think.

Sounds simple enough. Just finish adding the other entire half of skyrim they left out

I think anyway, because the map doesn't show anything about Maarkarth or Solitude ( I haven't played through that alliance yet so I'm not actually sure how it looks... I hope it is still the same map as skyrim just split between the two zones

)

SRIBES · December 2014

Akselmo wrote: »

I agree with your points, but keep in mind that ESO is barely one year old and some of these things you said probably will be implemented, but it's gonna take a loooooong while. Making games is slow work, especially something as big as ESO.

I hope that the game will get gradually better, and I'm sure it will, but it takes time.. And I'm worried the game might die out before that...

I realize the game is not even a year old, lol.

AlnilamE · December 2014

Hanokihs wrote: »

RSram wrote: »

The game has too few moments that are unpredictable.

Skyrim had many unpredictable moments like dragons attacking the villages and towns; it was really cool watching the townsfolk fighting the dragons.

[...] It's the unexpected events that make games great.

Emphasis mine, because OMFG, I hated that nonsense. Every time I heard a dragon coming for Riverwood, I just sighed and reloaded a previous save. Why would the townsfolk would be too stupid to just run inside and hide from the giant, Legendary-class hate-beast that was about to swoop down and murder them all?! Same with vampire attacks, and they even attacked in the big cities, like Whiterun!

In a game like this, where choices and changes are permanent, I do NOT want to have my cities and towns turn into wastelands because the RNG gods woke up one Thursday and decided to hate my face and all that it stands for. No thank you. Do not want.

Oh yeah, like the one time where the dragon killed one of the NPCs I had to turn a quest in to. And I'd talk to his sister and she acted like he wasn't lying dead in the street...

SRIBES · December 2014

AlnilamE wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

RSram wrote: »

The game has too few moments that are unpredictable.

Skyrim had many unpredictable moments like dragons attacking the villages and towns; it was really cool watching the townsfolk fighting the dragons.

[...] It's the unexpected events that make games great.

Emphasis mine, because OMFG, I hated that nonsense. Every time I heard a dragon coming for Riverwood, I just sighed and reloaded a previous save. Why would the townsfolk would be too stupid to just run inside and hide from the giant, Legendary-class hate-beast that was about to swoop down and murder them all?! Same with vampire attacks, and they even attacked in the big cities, like Whiterun!

In a game like this, where choices and changes are permanent, I do NOT want to have my cities and towns turn into wastelands because the RNG gods woke up one Thursday and decided to hate my face and all that it stands for. No thank you. Do not want.

Oh yeah, like the one time where the dragon killed one of the NPCs I had to turn a quest in to. And I'd talk to his sister and she acted like he wasn't lying dead in the street...

Quoting for expansion of discussion.

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

RSram wrote: »

The game has too few moments that are unpredictable.

Skyrim had many unpredictable moments like dragons attacking the villages and towns; it was really cool watching the townsfolk fighting the dragons.

[...] It's the unexpected events that make games great.

Emphasis mine, because OMFG, I hated that nonsense. Every time I heard a dragon coming for Riverwood, I just sighed and reloaded a previous save. Why would the townsfolk would be too stupid to just run inside and hide from the giant, Legendary-class hate-beast that was about to swoop down and murder them all?! Same with vampire attacks, and they even attacked in the big cities, like Whiterun!

In a game like this, where choices and changes are permanent, I do NOT want to have my cities and towns turn into wastelands because the RNG gods woke up one Thursday and decided to hate my face and all that it stands for. No thank you. Do not want.

Oh yeah, like the one time where the dragon killed one of the NPCs I had to turn a quest in to. And I'd talk to his sister and she acted like he wasn't lying dead in the street...

Quoting for expansion of discussion.

I loved the random encounters in Skyrim... dragons attacking a town?? Perfect! I think the AI may have been a little stupid when it came to civilians, but it's a f***ing dragon, you can't just go hide inside your straw roofed wooden hut... he'll just burn you alive inside. The guards duty is to protect the citizens so it makes sense that they would try and kill the dragons. Should more of them have died during dragon fights? Hell yeah, but I still loved it. Also, this is an MMO so if an NPC did die from an attack, they would quite simply respawn after the appropriate interval and voila, problem solved.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · December 2014

Dragons ... can be fun. I spent rather too much time getting them to die gracefully ... you know:

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Dragons ... can be fun. I spent rather too much time getting them to die gracefully ... you know:

lol dragons were always fun to me

Darkrogue671 · December 2014

Ahhhhh... I miss the baby purple dragons from Daggerfall that would come outta nowhere and try to kick your behind. It looked like a little salamander with wings.

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

Ahhhhh... I miss the baby purple dragons from Daggerfall that would come outta nowhere and try to kick your behind. It looked like a little salamander with wings.

That... sounds... totes adorbs!!! lol

Darkrogue671 · December 2014

But, of course, Daggerfall had naked women strewn about the inn rooms and naked nymphs laughing and b***h slapping you to death. When you were a die-hard Arena and Daggerfall fan during Bethesda's early days, we all pretty much went berserk with anticipation with Morrowind. While it was a great game, that one and the rest after, it became obvious the sellout to the major markets. Kind of like Metallica after "And Justice For All".

diabeticDemon18 · December 2014

Elder Scrolls used to allow you to F**K B****ES AND GET MONEY?!?!?