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-- Musings of a Templar --
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Teloran✭✭✭
You've played Templar since Beta and you morph into Radiant Aura?ThatHappyCat wrote: »Having played with a Templar since Beta, here's some of my thoughts about the class.
Radiant Aura
"Increased radius", really? That's boring and almost useless, especially since the AoE's pretty large already. Should be replaced with an interesting effect, for example increasing magicka regeneration by 50%. If people are worried about it recouping its cost, bear in mind Templars already have precedence with this in Honour the Dead and Channelled Focus.
Repentance is one of the best abilities in the game.
Not if you're fighting bosses without adds, and bosses are the hard part of trials.0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭Khivas_Carrick wrote: »
Puncturing Sweeps
So I'm weird and unoptimized, so sue me.
No you aren't. You just waste magicka on certain things.
Not sure if compliment,
Or Insult.
Or both XDBobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!0 -
I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).Edited by Pierre.Steegb16_ESO on 30 August 2014 14:180 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭^I feel that what this man speaks is truth. Granted while I have tanking skills at the ready, I doubt I will ever actually tank in this game, hence why I have mostly healing/support/melee skills at the ready lolBobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!0
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Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.
Now the Templar doing 600-800 DPS, what was he wearing or using? The 1400+ Sustained, what was he using/wearing? THESE ARE IMPORTANT THINGS FOR LIFE MAN!Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!0 -
Teloran✭✭✭
I'm not sure if this is the one he was looking at but here is a 2h hybrid build that is pulling over 1k dps.Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.
Now the Templar doing 600-800 DPS, what was he wearing or using? The 1400+ Sustained, what was he using/wearing? THESE ARE IMPORTANT THINGS FOR LIFE MAN!
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/crusader-templar-2h-pve-melee-dps-800-1400-single-target/0 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.
1400 sustained uses backlash, which means you could only ever have one Templar on an encounter as DPS. Only one Backlash debuff can exist on a target at one time.
Furthermore, at the presumed gear levels being talked about, NBs, DKs, and Sorcs are all over 2K.
The hybrid build isn't viable for top-tier trials simply due to being melee and the fact that if you read the comments and watch the video, he's using AoE.
That build is around 600-800 DPS single target. It's also somewhat funny that you use a weapon build and not spec power of the light.
Edited by Pmarsico9 on 1 September 2014 14:112 -
JLB✭✭✭✭Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.
1400 sustained uses backlash, which means you could only ever have one Templar on an encounter as DPS. Only one Backlash debuff can exist on a target at one time.
Furthermore, at the presumed gear levels being talked about, NBs, DKs, and Sorcs are all over 2K.
The hybrid build isn't viable for top-tier trials simply due to being melee and the fact that if you read the comments and watch the video, he's using AoE.
That build is around 600-800 DPS single target. It's also somewhat funny that you use a weapon build and not spec power of the light.
Exactly this.
2 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭This guy is way better geared than me. In fact I'm not entirely sure if I want to redo all this endgame *** again if everyone is so far ahead of me and I'm lax for time due to irl stresses.
I now know why "Easy Modes" were introduced for the common man lol
That said though, I still like a good challenge, and I guess a good challenge here being having to roll Melee in any way while playing a Templar. Fun times. Also his build wasn't too far off from mine yet at the same time very different. I rock either 5/2 Light/Heavy, or 5L/1M/1H with multiple sets equipped, like 3 sets depending on my mood XD And I use mostly spells for DPS/Support while using the sword as filler and finishers. Makes me wonder how I'd perform if I "optimized" myself with this build. Then again ZoS doesn't know how to balance a god damned thing, and frankly their best bet is to just make everything overpowered, but nerp, not them.
Can't have swords actually competing with staffs after all.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!1 -
Teloran✭✭✭Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.
1400 sustained uses backlash, which means you could only ever have one Templar on an encounter as DPS. Only one Backlash debuff can exist on a target at one time.
Furthermore, at the presumed gear levels being talked about, NBs, DKs, and Sorcs are all over 2K.
The hybrid build isn't viable for top-tier trials simply due to being melee and the fact that if you read the comments and watch the video, he's using AoE.
That build is around 600-800 DPS single target. It's also somewhat funny that you use a weapon build and not spec power of the light.
I have never seen anyone praise anywhere near 2k. Plus if you look at the video he's actually getting over 1k DPS quite consistently. The comments were mostly trolling about it not being a propper stamina build.1 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.
1400 sustained uses backlash, which means you could only ever have one Templar on an encounter as DPS. Only one Backlash debuff can exist on a target at one time.
Furthermore, at the presumed gear levels being talked about, NBs, DKs, and Sorcs are all over 2K.
The hybrid build isn't viable for top-tier trials simply due to being melee and the fact that if you read the comments and watch the video, he's using AoE.
That build is around 600-800 DPS single target. It's also somewhat funny that you use a weapon build and not spec power of the light.
I have never seen anyone praise anywhere near 2k. Plus if you look at the video he's actually getting over 1k DPS quite consistently. The comments were mostly trolling about it not being a propper stamina build.
1K with some AoE off his spear.
Sorcs/DKs can hit 2K AoE with EASE.
Come on now, read the tooltip for Power of the Light and Understand that in that 8 second window, you'd do the highest damage you could with perfect animation cancellation and instants.
Then understand that even played perfectly, it's not competitive to the single target of any other classes and then, take it even further:
ONLY 1 BACKLASH CAN EXIST ON A SINGLE TARGET AT A TIME. WHICH MEANS ONLY ONE TEMPLAR COULD PROVIDE MAXIMUM TEMPLAR DPS WHICH IS LOWER ANYWAY.
This has been theorycrafted to death. There's no way, even with the PS and VB buffs to make Templars do enough damage to bring along as pure DPS in trials. They have major resource issues, as well.
It's all because they are the only class in the game not tied to the Resto staff to heal.
Not that that should matter anyway, Cycle of Life and Combat Prayer accessibility is a passive 18% additive damage buff to everything you do while wielding a Resto staff.........which is why they are the single target preferred weapon.
So the penalty is massively punitive for essentially no reason.
Lastly, there's no batswarm in that build, which is the best ult because it's ultimately free damage. There's no interruption to your casting and it does extremely high damage.Edited by Pmarsico9 on 2 September 2014 20:392 -
Teloran✭✭✭Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »I think someone that says Templars cant tank endgame content is extremely drunk. I am a templar and tank from time to time, Trials and CoH go smoothly, also have the CoH death achieves. Hell, mostly the healer doesnt even have to do anything because i heal the whole group with my "self-heal" (Ceremony, EDIT: of course only applies to vet group dungeons like CoH, not trials). The only thing templars are missing in tanking is a group Root/CC, but brings way more survivability for the group to the table (Trash mobs shouldn't be that big of a problem for the group though). I really don't get how someone can honestly think that templars suck at tanking endgame, they obviously have never seen one (or a reaaally bad one).
I am finding that most of the complaints on the forums are from people reading other people's complaints and not brought on by first hand knowledge.
I read a recent post with someone who played a vr12 Templar and ranted that they only do 600-800 dps when a thread right near it posted videos of a Templar doing 1400 sustained dps.
1400 sustained uses backlash, which means you could only ever have one Templar on an encounter as DPS. Only one Backlash debuff can exist on a target at one time.
Furthermore, at the presumed gear levels being talked about, NBs, DKs, and Sorcs are all over 2K.
The hybrid build isn't viable for top-tier trials simply due to being melee and the fact that if you read the comments and watch the video, he's using AoE.
That build is around 600-800 DPS single target. It's also somewhat funny that you use a weapon build and not spec power of the light.
I have never seen anyone praise anywhere near 2k. Plus if you look at the video he's actually getting over 1k DPS quite consistently. The comments were mostly trolling about it not being a propper stamina build.
1K with some AoE off his spear.
Sorcs/DKs can hit 2K AoE with EASE.
Come on now, read the tooltip for Power of the Light and Understand that in that 8 second window, you'd do the highest damage you could with perfect animation cancellation and instants.
Then understand that even played perfectly, it's not competitive to the single target of any other classes and then, take it even further:
ONLY 1 BACKLASH CAN EXIST ON A SINGLE TARGET AT A TIME. WHICH MEANS ONLY ONE TEMPLAR COULD PROVIDE MAXIMUM TEMPLAR DPS WHICH IS LOWER ANYWAY.
This has been theorycrafted to death. There's no way, even with the PS and VB buffs to make Templars do enough damage to bring along as pure DPS in trials. They have major resource issues, as well.
It's all because they are the only class in the game not tied to the Resto staff to heal.
Not that that should matter anyway, Cycle of Life and Combat Prayer accessibility is a passive 18% additive damage buff to everything you do while wielding a Resto staff.........which is why they are the single target preferred weapon.
So the penalty is massively punitive for essentially no reason.
Lastly, there's no batswarm in that build, which is the best ult because it's ultimately free damage. There's no interruption to your casting and it does extremely high damage.
2k is about right for AoE but to be honest other classes (including templar) can do about that as well. What's actually important in trials is single target damage.
Now lets actually look at the DPS the build's pulling. On Varlariel he's pulling 1278DPS with Evil Hunter. As there isn't any contribution from the 2H's forceful trait like in his Mage praise, it's probably not from AoE.
For his Mage praise, lets ignore the damage from Forceful and assume that there's on average three targets (the mage is predominantly single target so this is probably excessive) and divide all damage from his AoE abilities by 3. This gives his DPS breakdown as
Wrecking blow: 253.11 DPS
Light Attack: 243.18 DPS
Heavy Attack: 238.28 DPS
Carve: 139.36/3=46.4 DPS
Blazing Spear: 98.87/3=33.0 DPS
Burning Light: 93.87/3=31.29 DPS
Vampire's Bane: 89.49 DPS
Executioner: 83.64 DPS
Blazing Spear Pulse: 60.08/3=20.0 DPS
Forceful: Ignored
Total: 1038.39
For reference, most 'trial viable' builds seem to be pulling between 800 and 1.2k SINGE TARGET DPS. If you can find a screenshot of someone doing substantially more then let me know.
1 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭1) You can't just "divide by 3." That's not mathematically valid. The very notion of this is extremely trollish and seems to be the meanderings of somebody who refuses to believe that Templars simply are not viable 11 minute Trial DPS'ers.
2) If this was a "trial viable" build then where's the representation? There is none. Why isn't there any? Because single target, this build is below 1K.
3) It's melee and the lack of ability to swap (due to the necessity of medium gear) to heal actually limits the build's viability further.
I'm going to remove myself from this. There's no point in trying to explore this further with you because the theorycraft model of "divide by 3" is not a viable one. You also don't seem to understand that Templars that do legitimately break 1K right now are all using Power of the Light and that means you can't have more than one Templar DPSing, because only one of those debuffs can exist on any target.
There simply is no reason for a true 11 minute trial team to bring more than their single token Templar healer. If even that.
Edited by Pmarsico9 on 3 September 2014 13:481 -
Teloran✭✭✭1) You can't just "divide by 3." That's not mathematically valid. The very notion of this is extremely trollish and seems to be the meanderings of somebody who refuses to believe that Templars simply are not viable 11 minute Trial DPS'ers.
2) If this was a "trial viable" build then where's the representation? There is none. Why isn't there any? Because single target, this build is below 1K.
3) It's melee and the lack of ability to swap (due to the necessity of medium gear) to heal actually limits the build's viability further.
I'm going to remove myself from this. There's no point in trying to explore this further with you because the theorycraft model of "divide by 3" is not a viable one. You also don't seem to understand that Templars that do legitimately break 1K right now are all using Power of the Light and that means you can't have more than one Templar DPSing, because only one of those debuffs can exist on any target.
There simply is no reason for a true 11 minute trial team to bring more than their single token Templar healer. If even that.
I assure you as someone who has done mathematics at a university level that dividing by three is completely mathematically valid. In anything you can't directly solve you need to make simplifying assumptions like that to get useful information. Of course it won't give exact DPS, but it will give a LOWER bound to the DPS for that fight.
If you really don't like it for some reason lets just remove ALL AoE damage. This gives a respectable 908 damage, which would be much less then what the guy would actually get due to spending a good chunk of his time recasting Blazing Spear once every 6 seconds.
The answer to point two is actually because of people complaining so much on the forum that people just assume that Templars can't DPS. The exact same thing happened to Nightblades, then someone found their current cookie-cutter build and now they are top dog.
As for your final point, look at the trial time in his speed-run video.Edited by Teloran on 3 September 2014 22:461 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭1) You can't just "divide by 3." That's not mathematically valid. The very notion of this is extremely trollish and seems to be the meanderings of somebody who refuses to believe that Templars simply are not viable 11 minute Trial DPS'ers.
2) If this was a "trial viable" build then where's the representation? There is none. Why isn't there any? Because single target, this build is below 1K.
3) It's melee and the lack of ability to swap (due to the necessity of medium gear) to heal actually limits the build's viability further.
I'm going to remove myself from this. There's no point in trying to explore this further with you because the theorycraft model of "divide by 3" is not a viable one. You also don't seem to understand that Templars that do legitimately break 1K right now are all using Power of the Light and that means you can't have more than one Templar DPSing, because only one of those debuffs can exist on any target.
There simply is no reason for a true 11 minute trial team to bring more than their single token Templar healer. If even that.
I assure you as someone who has done mathematics at a university level that dividing by three is completely mathematically valid. In anything you can't directly solve you need to make simplifying assumptions like that to get useful information. Of course it won't give exact DPS, but it will give a LOWER bound to the DPS for that fight.
If you really don't like it for some reason lets just remove ALL AoE damage. This gives a respectable 908 damage, which would be much less then what the guy would actually get due to spending a good chunk of his time recasting Blazing Spear once every 6 seconds.
The answer to point two is actually because of people complaining so much on the forum that people just assume that Templars can't DPS. The exact same thing happened to Nightblades, then someone found their current cookie-cutter build and now they are top dog.
As for your final point, look at the trial time in his speed-run video.
Teloran, honestly, whatever you say at this point. You want to believe that dividing by 3 works for how anything models, go for it. Same for just "subtracting out AoE."
Godspeed, man, Godspeed.
Because Templars are fine and that's why they have representation in trial times.
Edited by Pmarsico9 on 3 September 2014 23:251 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are 2 viable Templar dps builds ones a caster the other is the crusader build that can sustain 1300 for over 2 minutes on the Mage. Now as for the all other classes can hit 2k post a screen shot of them doing it for over 2 minutes. So far I've only see a DK hit those numbers on the first boss for a massive 14 seconds.1 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭All I know is, I'm wearing 6/1 Heavy/Light armor, using a 2H, and blending Death's Wind, Ice Furnace, and The Fire for buttloads of weapon damage, a little spell crit, and some survivability.
So far people love me in dungeons and Cyrodil, can only imagine what happens when my friends finally get going for Trials.
Won't be optimal, but something tells me I'll be as close to fine as humanly possible.
That said,
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130276/discussion-heavy-armor#latest
That thread there is one of many that people have set up to get stuff going for balance changing. Lend your suggestions and constructive critiques and let's get this show on the road folks.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!2 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭This is really getting boring.
Your "caster" Templar build uses backlash, meaning only one Templar can DPS at a time, which neuters the healer's small amount of DPS in any trial run, meaning that overall group DPS goes down.
Your "crusader" build that you linked before is based off some guys ramblings and "ignoring his AoE clipping" and "dividing by 3."
People who act like things are fine aren't advocates. So you got owned in Cyrodiil by some Blazing Shield spamming scumbag. I'm sorry. But don't act like there's
A- Representation of either ranged or melee DPS templars in the top 20% of trials times.
B- Not massive issues from the class' design as it stands now. No other class is tied to hard casting like the Templar is from Range. And no other class is as resource limited as the Templar.
So if you are proud to be some obstinate hipster and claim that the class is fine, despite having no representation, then go for it.
The fact of the matter is that you can't get a slot in any good competitive trials guild that is actually pushing strong times (sub 13 minutes) as a Templar DPS.
Just being 100-200 potential DPS lower is going to cause you to get sat in these types of runs. I mean you even feel it in VR dungeons. High DPS bypasses almost everything in this game. Having quality DPS and a healer who can sustain high, strong, HPS allows you to bypass the necessity for almost all strategy due to the fact that there's "no right way to play."
Only the most pragmatic, usually unsubbed of the people who have cleared top-times trials admit to this:
The game's depth is severely lacking, combat and strategy-wise.
So many of the mechanics are bypassed by pure metrics, which is incredibly stupid considering it's an action MMO. If you don't have to avoid it, then why even bother having it.
I mean you don't even have to look at trials for that. Just look at Bloodspawn in Veteran Spindleclutch.
Edited by Pmarsico9 on 5 September 2014 00:452 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭1 boss out of how many that's a pure dps check with no other mechanics.
The rest do have mechanics to avoid or mitigate/heal through.
For my example from vet dungeons I'll go with any boss from vet crypt of hearts except maybe the first good luck not avoiding things and relaying on hps to bail you out.
Qoolas and Lucia are two Templars in my guild that regularly go on sub 13 minute runs as dps.
I wish there was more depth to the some of the boss fights though one of my favourites is actually in a daily.
Shada from shadas tear is a great fight and actually easier if you slow your dps to a crawl on her.
I think I may start a post suggesting more fights with dps control like that.
The only others I can think of are ones for difficulty achieves like blades edge and that's just to avoid not having enough adds up for the achieve.
In fact scratch that more dungeons like that but the difficulty needs to be raised IMHO.
I want a dungeon that is gonna take a month or so before it gets cleared and be impossible without. A well practiced group.Edited by lathbury on 5 September 2014 04:292
