Question about Shields

Sordidfairytale · August 2014

"Training = Emerald = Increase armor skill line experience with this armor type"

Since you can place this trait gem on a shield, exactly which armor type does it increase? Which category of armor does a Shield belong to? Does it give me a bonus to the armor I'm wearing the most of?

Or does this translate into an increase in the weapon skill line for Sword and Shield?

Forgive me if this has already been asked and addressed.

Kuratla · August 2014

Damn good question. Answer.... I have no idea.

Weberda · August 2014

Yeah, really. Good question. If it increases Sword and Shield then it's another tool tip typo. However that would allow the player to "double up" it he had the trait on his sword also. I don't know...need an answer from the programmers I guess.

Sordidfairytale · August 2014

Well it wouldn't really be a typo, considering the training jewel for weapon is Carnelian. It's confounding for the developers I'm certain, there are traits in the armor line that would apply to a shield, while there are traits that would also apply from the weapon line. They probably had to make a choice and armor seemed like the best fit.

And a dual wield player would be able to double up on carnelian on both of their weapons. So no real unique advantage there for a sword and shield player.

I'm more curious to know if the trait is doing nothing, I hope not, but this is what my gut feeling is telling me. I don't have a reliable method to test though.

Gillysan · August 2014

Bug report it!

Natjur · August 2014

It increases heavy. If you wear no armor at all and use a shield, you get heavy armor skill ups. Just made a L1 toon, kept it naked and mailed a L1 shield with this trait

Just wish the shield classed as a slot for the heavy armor line passives.

Pele · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

It increases heavy. If you wear no armor at all and use a shield, you get heavy armor skill ups. Just made a L1 toon, kept it naked and mailed a L1 shield with this trait

Just wish the shield classed as a slot for the heavy armor line passives.

Edit: I tested it with a new character. I had no gear on except my shield. It did not increase heavy armor or any armor for that matter. Nor did it increase the Sword and Shield line.

By itself, the shield did nothing.

Sordidfairytale · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

It increases heavy. If you wear no armor at all and use a shield, you get heavy armor skill ups. Just made a L1 toon, kept it naked and mailed a L1 shield with this trait

You must have had a piece of armor on and didn't realize it. Perhaps the soulshriven armor? And it counts as Heavy? Not sure.

I finally got an open character spot and just created a new character and removed all the armor, equipped an emerald shield and leveled him to 4 and none of the armor styles have leveled. All three types are showing 0/7

But... I did take a look at my kill xp and I did notice that with the emerald shield equipped I gained 18 xp per kill, and with it unequipped or a regular shield I gained only 16 xp per kill. 11% of 16 is 1.76, so they round up in Tamriel. This is a good thing.

This initially leads me to believe that it increases the weapon skill line.

Srugzal · August 2014

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

This initially leads me to believe that it increases the weapon skill line.

That is the only thing that makes sense, since it is in a weapon slot. It doesn't matter that it has an armor value, it's not "armor." I think that you've shown that pretty definitively.

AlexDougherty · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

This initially leads me to believe that it increases the weapon skill line.

That is the only thing that makes sense, since it is in a weapon slot. It doesn't matter that it has an armor value, it's not "armor." I think that you've shown that pretty definitively.

Shields are armour.

They are listed under armour in your inventory, they don't fit into the light/medium/heavy armour categories, but they are armour and they add to your armour rating.

seanolan · August 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

This initially leads me to believe that it increases the weapon skill line.

That is the only thing that makes sense, since it is in a weapon slot. It doesn't matter that it has an armor value, it's not "armor." I think that you've shown that pretty definitively.

Shields are armour.

They are listed under armour in your inventory, they don't fit into the light/medium/heavy armour categories, but they are armour and they add to your armour rating.

Annnnnd another one misses the point completely.

Srugzal · August 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

This initially leads me to believe that it increases the weapon skill line.

That is the only thing that makes sense, since it is in a weapon slot. It doesn't matter that it has an armor value, it's not "armor." I think that you've shown that pretty definitively.

Shields are armour.

They are listed under armour in your inventory, they don't fit into the light/medium/heavy armour categories, but they are armour and they add to your armour rating.

Noooo, they're not armor. They're weapons that have an armor rating; it's if they have a built-in "boost armor" buff. When you weapon swap them out, you lose that buff. They also do damage... like a weapon. Together with a 1h weapon, they constitute their own weapon skill line. You can't get exp in that skill line unless you equip both... neither can you use the 1H-S abilities from that skill line. Same goes for other weapons.

None of these things is true of "armor." So can we put this to rest? It's not about the word. It's about what the thing does. And yes, this whole question is rather beside the point. Have a nice day.

Sordidfairytale · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

You can't get exp in that skill line unless you equip both...

This doesn't take away from your overall point, but I was getting 16 xp per kill in the SnB skill line with just a sword equipped. It wasn't possible to have just a shield equipped, when I did that and entered combat I was using only my fists.

Srugzal · August 2014

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

You can't get exp in that skill line unless you equip both...

This doesn't take away from your overall point, but I was getting 16 xp per kill in the SnB skill line with just a sword equipped. It wasn't possible to have just a shield equipped, when I did that and entered combat I was using only my fists.

That's interesting, you'd think that the 1H skill line would be the one to get the XP in that case--that is, if there were one. But there isn't. That in itself is interesting.

The XP accumulation mechanic certainly has its mysterious aspects. One-handed defaults to 1H/S? This might actually be a bug, come to think of it. It could just as easily default to DW, why not? Why doesn't it have its own skill line? Hmmm...

Sordidfairytale · August 2014

Last night I did some more research.

I created a new character and equipped dual wield. Guild hopped and increased Dual Wield to level 3. Then I equipped a sword and shield, guild hopped again and leveled SnB to 3. At this point DW and SnB were equal, 16 xp in both skill lines. But SnB had been leveled "last" or most recent. I removed the shield and guild hopped. As expected SnB increased to 50 xp, but I wasn't certain if this was due to it being the default for a single hand weapon, or if it was because it was leveled most recent.

So I equipped my dual wield weapons, guild hopped again, getting DW to 50 xp. Then I unequipped one weapon and guild hopped. SnB received the xp for the discovery, not DW.

Next I leveled Dual Wield to a considerable margin above SnB 152 > 84. I unequipped one weapon and guild hopped. SnB gained the experience, even though DW had more xp and had been raised most recent. It appears that SnB is the default skill line. Which sort of makes sense.

Incidentally having only an offhand weapon equipped resulted in no xp gain in either skill line.

I'll try to lay out my research in pictograms

I = sword
i = offhand dagger
o = shield
_ = nothing equipped in that slot
I+i = Dual Wield
I+o = Sword and Board

The second skill line was the most recent skill line leveled.

I+i = 16
I+o = 16
I+_ = 18 xp to I+o after guild hop when wielding only a sword

I+o = 50
I+i = 50
I+_ = 34 xp to I+o after guild hop when wielding only a sword

I+o = 84
I+i = 152
I+_ = 34 xp to I+o after guild hop when wielding only a sword

_+i = no change to either skill line during guild hop or combat.

Tarukmockto · August 2014

What's a guild hop?

Sordidfairytale · August 2014

Open your guild page right click on a guild member and "Travel to Player" you can travel to anyone in your guild as long as they are in the same Allegiance, not in a delve/dungeon. Additionally if you are under a certain level/VR some other places may be unavailable to you.

If you travel to a region that you had not previously discovered you will be awarded xp for the discovery of the Wayshrine. I chose this method because generally the xp gained from discovering a shrine is fixed, and it's much faster than finding a monster and attacking them. It also rules out other environmental factors for xp gains.

Pele · August 2014

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

It increases heavy. If you wear no armor at all and use a shield, you get heavy armor skill ups. Just made a L1 toon, kept it naked and mailed a L1 shield with this trait

You must have had a piece of armor on and didn't realize it. Perhaps the soulshriven armor? And it counts as Heavy? Not sure.

I finally got an open character spot and just created a new character and removed all the armor, equipped an emerald shield and leveled him to 4 and none of the armor styles have leveled. All three types are showing 0/7

But... I did take a look at my kill xp and I did notice that with the emerald shield equipped I gained 18 xp per kill, and with it unequipped or a regular shield I gained only 16 xp per kill. 11% of 16 is 1.76, so they round up in Tamriel. This is a good thing.

This initially leads me to believe that it increases the weapon skill line.

That was my experience as well. Having only a shield equipped increased none of the armor lines. I also did not see an increase in the Sword and Shield line. I'd test more but it does not interest me enough.

Pseudonym · August 2014

It does one-hand and shield experience, when paired with a one-handed weapon. I never realised it said armour and not weapon, but at the same time, a shield is more armour than weapon.

To answer your question; it does up the one-hand and shield skills.

MercutioElessar · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

Just wish the shield classed as a slot for the heavy armor line passives.

But if you look at the shields you easily can see that there are light, medium and heavy shields. There are some with more wood, leather or metal look.