Funnily enough, most of these suggestions I am making comes by just looking at the werewolf perk line in Skyrim for Dawnguard. It would bring a lot, especially since werewolves lack skills in werewolf form, counter to what the vamps get.

This is actually a decent post about werewolf suggestions. I would like to talk about a few things though if you don't mind.

What if, instead we keep the 30 second werewolf timer and reduce the ultimate cost to 350 or so. The reduced cost should allow us to redesign Blood rage to increase our damage done up to a possible 50% while we are under 50%, it buffs our damage, gives us a bit of an edge in duels, and still requires us to be in a pack to receive the full benefit. Shields casted on you, from allies, while having low HP will increase your damage output by a decent amount but still allow enemy players to counter you.

I would also like to suggest we actually keep our class passives and set bonuses, since it seems to not function in form, and receive a HP regeneration buff, probably 50%. The HP regeneration buff will give us some sustain while we keep our enemies under our control by roaring and pouncing on them but still allows enemy players to counter us with HP regeneration debuffs. Again, being in a pack will still be beneficial because they can use purge and we still get our HP regeneration buff, which should be constant while in werewolf form.

I think the Call of the Pack passive needs to be revamped to instead grant us 1 additional second per attack to the werewolf timer while near other werewolves, perhaps it can still be stacked too. The new Call of the Pack still keeps the same feel of the original concept which is to sustain werewolf form while in a pack and allows us to sustain werewolf form while in combat.

I like your new ability suggestion the Scent of Blood. I dislike Howl of the Pack because I think we should get an execution ability instead, like a ferocious bite. I think the ferocious bite ability should function the same as the Two-Handed Reverse Slash; Ferocious bite deals an X amount of damage and increases damage based on the target's health loss up to a possible 300%. The base damage and the increase to damage based on hp lost is great to allow us to use this during the fight instead of near the end. Ferocious bite can be morphed to reduce the target's armor or restore HP by a low percentage but can be used through out the fight. That is basically it for my suggestions...for now.

Your other suggestions are golden though.

@cbrown15_ESO, The reason why I suggested we keep the 30 second timer is to keep werewolves from being the prime Scroll carrier, a permanent increase to movement speed will definitely do this. Unless, the movement speed is already balanced enough to justify a permanent werewolf form. The new Call of the Pack passive will basically make it so you never lose werewolf form while in combat, if you are near your pack. With devour, Feral Pounce, and the revamped Call of the Pack you will never lose the werewolf transformation while in combat. Being out of combat will make you rely on the devour passive only to maintain the werewolf form. But the reduced cost will still make it easier for you to transform back into a werewolf when the next conflict arises.

The Blood rage revamp is to make it so players do not use werewolf passives to cast another ultimate faster. The increased damage is an excellent trade off becuase we get an additional 50% damage and is sort of an equivalent passive to Undeath. The reduced ultimate cost will also give players more incentive to save their ultimate for their werewolf transformation and make the cost of werewolf transformation more efficient. The high cost and ultimate generation sort of force players to only use another ultimate instead of the werewolf transformation.

The HP regeneration could be combat regen which will ignore the combat regen soft cap. Players only receive the full benefit of normal, class passives out of combat.

An execution ability is greatly needed for our werewolf skill line because we are supposedly designed to deal massive burst DPS. The Ferocious bite morph will either increase your own damage output or increase your sustain in combat.

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

@cbrown15_ESO, The reason why I suggested we keep the 30 second timer is to keep werewolves from being the prime Scroll carrier, a permanent increase to movement speed will definitely do this. Unless, the movement speed is already balanced enough to justify a permanent werewolf form.Werewolves aren't that fast to even make this an issue. The new Call of the Pack passive will basically make it so you never lose werewolf form while in combat, if you are near your pack. With devour, Feral Pounce, and the revamped Call of the Pack you will never lose the werewolf transformation while in combat. Being out of combat will make you rely on the devour passive only to maintain the werewolf form. But the reduced cost will still make it easier for you to transform back into a werewolf when the next conflict arises.

Having PvP'd, I can tell you from experience that a werewolf isn't going to sprint cross country carrying a flag. Once the changes to vamp and the electric teleport go through, big tanky characters are going to be scroll carriers not werewolves. The added speed of a werewolf won't be noticeable to most, especially to bow and ranged classes. Furthermore, devour will do diddly squat as you require corpses to use it. The time is still too short to make it viable, and very few are going to go werewolf just to get the increased time just because it's unwieldly and actually prone to making you inferior in PvP, not better. People will prefer someone that can actually be defensive and tanky carrying the scroll, not someone that gets a slightly better run speed over a normal character.

Fact is fact, 30 seconds will never, ever be viable in the game as it stands now, and attempting to make an ultimate ability that is suppose to make us a badass monster of death doesn't even accomplish that, 30 seconds is just too easy for most PvPers to get around leaving the werewolf still high and dry.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

The Blood rage revamp is to make it so players do not use werewolf passives to cast another ultimate faster. The increased damage is an excellent trade off becuase we get an additional 50% damage and is sort of an equivalent passive to Undeath. The reduced ultimate cost will also give players more incentive to save their ultimate for their werewolf transformation and make the cost of werewolf transformation more efficient. The high cost and ultimate generation sort of force players to only use another ultimate instead of the werewolf transformation.

So, you are saying we should be punished? That's literally what every other player does with other core class abilities or skill lines that do that, without having to waste a slot to house a werewolf transform to get the benefit, or needing to be hit to benefit. The point of blood rage is to use werewolf transformation fast, but having options is what this is about. Changing that to damage only removes options, and pretty much negates the transformation completely, as the point is that the madder a werewolf gets the more likely they are to change.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

The HP regeneration could be combat regen which will ignore the combat regen soft cap. Players only receive the full benefit of normal, class passives out of combat.

I don't think you are understanding how little the actual benefit of combat regen plays in the grand scheme of PvP especially.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

An execution ability is greatly needed for our werewolf skill line because we are supposedly designed to deal massive burst DPS. The Ferocious bite morph will either increase your own damage output or increase your sustain in combat.

I didn't disagree with that, but your bonus damage is what I am calling into question. That's really high, not to mention the morphs pretty much mirror what I put down for Scent of Blood.

I PvP'ed as well and I know for a fact peeps don't care if you are tanky or not. The only thing that matters for a scroll carrier is if you are veteran rank and able to move fast.

Also I don't think you are fully considering the suggestions. Feral pounce grants 4 additional seconds to the werewolf timer. The revamped Call of the Pack will add 1 additional second per attack, which includes normal attacks and ability attacks, basically freezing and adding to the timer while you are in combat. The reduced ultimate cost will make it easier to achieve for every conflict and allow players to be werewolves more often. 30 seconds will be viable if you add several ways to add more time to the werewolf timer during combat. These changes with allowing werewolves to dodge and CC break will make it purrfectly viable.

Lets look at this and see if it fixes the problems. The new passives and abilities will make it easier to burst someone down and allow you to sustain the werewolf timer while you are attacking enemy players. If you get low on HP the new Blood Rage passive will increase your damage output which makes you sort of the equivalent to 'beware the cornered animal'. The reduced ultimate cost on the werewolf transformation makes it more efficient and you will not be punished if you decide to exit werewolf form early because you can easily gain the ultimate back.

Your suggestion is to keep the high cost but give us 15 minutes. Which does not fix all of the problems. The problems are the high cost and how hard it is to reach it with siege pvp and the lack of killable npcs in cyrodiil. Of course once you reach it you get a lengthy amount of time but PvP is unpredictable and sometimes requires you to cancel your form for your abilities. Which will bring you back to the dreadful grind. We need changes that fix the problems.

The ferocious bite suggestion is mainly to replace your Howl of the Pack ability. Calling simple wolves or werewolves was useless in Skyrim and will be useless in PvP because they can not be controlled and they do mediocre DPS. The ferocious bite is really needed for the werewolf form, if we have no lifelines like the vampires then we need the damage output to finish our enemies.

The HP regeneration buff is only supposed to give the werewolf transformation a slight buff and make it easier to recover if we CC chain our enemies. But can be ignored 'cause your suggested passives do this already.

I pvp in Cyrodiil daily with a werewolf ganker squad, so I know how werewolves perform in PvP and what causes the problems. The main problems are the high cost and the inability to dodge or CC break. From experience I know an efficient and powerful ultimate is more valuable which is why I suggested the things above.

But I see the main problem of the werewolf transformation was making it an ultimate if only we were allowed to transform at will, sort of like the feral druids of wow. Druids are the top played class in EU and the second played class in US, which shows how much people just want to have fun and just go beast mode on everything.

Also Answering with questions and questioning my ability are not constructive.

OK so, a few things with fixing werewolf. LONG POST.. really sorry, i wish i could order my thoughts better. well I wish I didn't need to write all this but...

The whole point is sacrificing for power, do the strengths balance the weaknesses? How will that fit with lore/ gameplay? And how this will be looked at by devs.. how much time/ effort will we need to implement this? so firstly lets think about the time in form.

Yes, no matter how you look at it, the timer should be increased. Possible though, not by as much as you may think (will get to that a little later). Looking from a balance perspective, the longer we have in form, the less powerful our attacks should be. We are killing machines, with long intervals between, or we could look at this from the perspective of 'we are always werewolves.'

From the 'Killing machine' perspective - huge ultimate cost. simple as this, as it was, but WITH POWER! say, 1000 ultimate, but with CC resistance and attacks truly hitting like a truck.. with nitrous. As a templar, I have an AoE ultimate for 342 damage.. single target thats 13 (nearly 14) times I can use it before werewolf transformation, which equates to 4446 single target damage werewolf should equate to, but this is an AoE so really at least double/ triple. also this ulti reduces damage recieved, so truly werewolf should make up a little more somewhere to be balanced, lets put that damage reduction into ww shall we? 15% damage reduction one one enemy, then for each additional enemy its (15+4)%
so.. gives us more survivability for this too! while in form, lets say we just take 30% less damage straight up and get +20% health, but poison damage is only reduced by, say, 5%.
Then, we can keep the combat the same as it now, mainly auto attacks for damage (they better hit hard, with a heavy attack being an AoE for, say, 700 damage, and light attacks hitting fast, 800+ damage each.
-Unstoppable killing machine while in form. however same poison weakness in human form and the wait to unleash this. Timer.. 30-40 seconds. enough time to kill as many people as you could with your other ultimates, oh so many times. This is also the easiest to implement, and truly befitting a berserker style build. and honestly, the poison weakness will only be there because of whatever passives are in the skill line, because with this cost and what could be used, its balanced. the amount of times you die before transform in pvp will be accounted for in the short while you are transformed.


Now, for the second.. less easy to balance version, operating under 'you are always a werewolf.' this is balanced by gains and sacrifice. A Toggle werewolf with more skills would be difficult to balance, but a werewolf still NEEDS to be POWERFUL to fit the nature of the beast. so, sacrifices first:

this 'toggle' - wanna be a werewolf? always a werewolf? Well give up half your humanity. That thing many people will cling to... 2nd weapon slot. When you change weapon set you become a werewolf and can only use werewolf abilities, meaning you can only use melee, meaning this in itself is a large sacrifice, and build decisions will be more thoughtful.

Benefit - you will be a werewolf and a human, 2 sides to you (a duality concept, come on It fits werewolves right?). passives can be spread to human form, but still reduced to make it fair, or just left in form. same with the poison weakness. you can move faster, attacks hit harder, access to an ultimate and racial bonuses will still apply, but armour and weapon passives won't, just extra survivability passives. you can now sneak, and while in form have an ability to detect stealthed enemies, activated and used much like magelight - you have sharper detection skills, smell stealthed players and detect critical areas (crit rate up). you get the dodge (mini pounce), a true werewolf run, customisation of your wolf counterpart, and extra skills.

If detection skill is implemented, that gives us room for 2 more + ultimate. The skills are already in game - take a 2H/ DW skill at will. maybe trees, or through morphs, so you can have a playstyle like a berserker (using 2h skills, like uppercut and reverse slice) or a feral wolf (I dont really know DW skills)

The ultimate will be a roar, 300 ultimate cost. Roar as it is will make a single enemy run and cower for a few seconds so you can deal with others or set up pounce. the ultimate will make all run away and cower for 8 seconds max, while your power increases over the time of the ultimate. after using ultimate, auto-switched back to human form and weapon set for a minute or so.

This last one may be better for RP purposes, balance and player happiness, but will take an enormous effort to become a reality. Therefore don't hold out any hopes, but truly I would go for just a mega buffed WW with damage equivalent to what can be obtained through the ultimates sacrificed to get there, plus some for the time we are forced to wait before acting.

sorry again for the text wall. my main purpose is balance here, so please tell me if something here seems overpowered to the point of making werewolf only the next emporer and king of everything. I want it viable, but I also enjoy being a werewolf because I want to be one, not because its what everyone does. exclusivity is kinda nice, yes?

natewook wrote: »

it wold be nice if they added more rest zones where you can stay a werewolf if you transform so there are some spots where you can RP as a werewolf.

Yes, that would be awesome. quite often we just end up crowded around the shrine, which isn't ideal when trying to bite someone, and its a tiny area

I generally despise commenting on suggested changes on game forums, but these changes are really great. None of them are too OP.

This strikes at the heart of my problem with werewolf, only two skills on the bar.

+1

ChampionSheWolf wrote: »

I don't think it's even a small secret that the werewolf skill line is nearly unusable and more of a detriment to actually gain than a boon. So the following are my suggestions on fixing it. This includes both QOL, bug and graphical fixes that I feel are needed.

QOL CHANGES REQUESTED

• Reduce the cost of the transformation Ultimate to base 500 points.
• Increase the duration timer. In Skyrim the base duration was one in game hour. In ESO this would be 15 minutes. While werewolf transformation is active, the transformation should count as a toggle that a player can choose to turn off when activated, thus prematurely ending the werewolf form, but still lose all Ultimate points, regardless.
• Give werewolves the ability to dodge attacks.
• Increase the damage output while in werewolf form due to the fact we can't use most of our weapon abilities. Have this scale based on the werewolf skill line level.
• Allow werewolves to use 50% of their werewolf line perks while in humanoid form. This is the biggest stickler for werewolves that we get all of our penalties, but none of our perks, while in humanoid form.
• Allow werewolves to enter stealth mode. Drops to all fours when they do.
• Change Pursuit to Bestial Vigor, increasing Health and Stamina by 10%/20%.
• Add a second rank to Devour that is unlocked around werewolf skill 30. This second rank will allow werewolves to feed from nearly any type of corpse.
• Change Savage Strength from increasing base Stamina to instead Increase base Damage.
• With the change to the timer to 15 minutes, Call of the Pack should increase Ally Speed 3%/5% or damage or offer improved stealthing skills.
• New Werewolf Power: Scent of Blood - Toggle, uses Magicka. Allows the werewolf to see stealthed individuals up to 30 feet away. Morph 1 - Hunter - This allows the werewolf to heal a small amount of damage for each hit they deliver in combat, once every 2 seconds. Morph 2 - Predator - This also gives the werewolf improved stealth.
• New Werewolf Power: Howl of the Pack - Summons two wolf allies to aid the werewolf in combat. Toggle, costs stamina and reduces max stamina by 10%. Morph 1 - Allies of the Moon - This summons two additional werewolves to fight beside you, but reduces max stamina by 20% instead. Morph 2 - Allies of the North - This summons two spirit wolves that inflict frost damage.

GRAPHICAL AND ANIMATION CHANGES REQUESTED

• Use the Skyrim werewolf model. I understand it will require some tweaking due to it's poly count for ESO, but please. The current ESO werewolf is very much laughably designed, to be blunt.
• Use the animations from Skyrim for walking, running and sprinting, as well as a stealth animation where the werewolf walks on all fours naturally.
• For a refresher, pic of Skyrim werewolf is provided below.

In closing I think these changes right here would go a long way into improving the werewolf, not only in the solo experience but also in the team environment. The current werewolf design is very much designed as a solo thing, with very little team viability, despite werewolves and wolves in general are suppose to be pack oriented. On top of that, it's a poor solo experience due to the fact that the werewolf doesn't have any viable mitigation or tactics that make it useful beyond a novelty experience, unlike the vampire. Even the upcoming reductions to the vampire skill line still make it more desirable than the current werewolf.

I like those too.