BWAHAHAHAHA .wanna bet those 3000 free copies end up in a dumpster somewhere?

DelraelNavarre wrote: »

I don't post much on the forums for several reasons, but I do read them fairly often and there is something I just don't seem to understand. Perhaps you all can help me.

I see a lot of raving over and mocking of these "fanbois", which I take to mean those who are so overwhelming in favor of and loyal to this game that they become blind to everything else and attack upon a visceral level anyone who dares to even slightly demean the game. Now in the months since nearly the beginning of Beta until now, I have seen a few of these posts, but certainly no more than I can count on one hand, two tops. Perhaps I am not reading in the right places.

What I DO see, however, is these same characteristics overwhelming evident in the opposite side of the spectrum, call them "anti-fanbois" if you will, or think up a better name. These are the posters who will spew forth a long litany of the many problems of the game at the slightest opportunity, and with rabid glee descend on anyone who even appears to suggest that there are some worthwhile things in game. These anti-fanbois are legion on this forum, and their threads and posts are equally legion.

Now, have I exaggerated a bit? Perhaps. But most of the posts I read from those who have anything decent to say about the game also usually go out of their way to acknowledge there are problems with the current state of play, that there are bugs that need to be fixed, and things that need to be balanced. IMHO, if anyone needs to stifle the bile and venom it is these anti-fanbois. Feel free to disagree.

Edit: P.S. I thought the article (since this is the subject of the OP) was extremely honest and fair, and I pretty much agree with it, whole-heartedly.

Nah, look. Maybe that's what you see, but it's not reflective of the forum as a whole. Yes, occasionally, and I do mean occasionally, you see somebody use the term "fanboy" or "white knight," but it's almost always in the middle of a fight wherein someone has already used one of these words or phrases: "Whine," "cry," "qq," "moan," "naysayer," and so forth. Those words you see far more often.

It's a consequence of the rule that you can't name and shame, or level charges against individual posters. As a result, people tend to make generalizations. They address the forum and say "I see a lot of x and y," "I see fanboys all over the place." "I see whiners and cryers all over the place." You just did it with your own post. I'm doing it now in this post.

So you gave your impression. Here's mine: For every anti-"fanboy" post, there are a dozen "whiner and cryer" posts. They are just as empty of the "constructive posting," that people cling so fervently to. Even the so-called "positive" posts, ones where people congregate to heap lavish praise upon TESO and Zeni, either contain a ton of, or quickly become, passive-aggression. They start with "This and this and this are GREAT!" and finish with "This ought to show all those naysayers!"

There's a lot of other ridiculous folderol that comes packaged with that too, like people using the LOL button as "dislike" instead of to label a post as funny.

Anyway, this discussion, talking about this review, is a terrific slow-globe version of the general state of this community. You've got a lot of people saying "Nuh uh! This guy is a stooopid because he's so negative!" You've got some saying "What a jerk, he needs to be more critical!" And most saying "Hmm. Tough, but fair." A bunch of infighting posts were deleted, and that's probably for the best, but it also just hides the fact that many people who participate here are unwilling, or incapable, of recognizing that their own personal experience of TESO is not the same as others' personal experience, and jump to the conclusion that because those experiences don't match, the other people are doing it wrong.

Phantax wrote: »

Wouldn't like to choose if this is a fair review or a sneaky attack, but either way this certainly isn't going to do ESO any favours !

http://www.pcgamer.com/uk/2014/07/03/the-state-of-elder-scrolls-online-3-months-after-launch/

Oops ! Not exactly a glowing review !
@Zenimax did you guys not give the PC Gamer guys VIP seats at Quakecon or something?
You obviously did something to upset them...rofl

The author actually took it very easy on them in my opinion. He opens with a pvp Cyrodiil pic but notice he didn't even touch that in his article. Had he included Cyrodiil it would have been much much worse. No balance, broken abilities, poorly thought out mechanics, abilities that act differently than described, lag, fps, inaction on population imbalance, excess of cc, vampires/dks online, hackable client side code.....it could go on for a while.

DelraelNavarre wrote: »

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

Nah, look. Maybe that's what you see, but it's not reflective of the forum as a whole. Yes, occasionally, and I do mean occasionally, you see somebody use the term "fanboy" or "white knight," but it's almost always in the middle of a fight wherein someone has already used one of these words or phrases: "Whine," "cry," "qq," "moan," "naysayer," and so forth. Those words you see far more often.

It's a consequence of the rule that you can't name and shame, or level charges against individual posters. As a result, people tend to make generalizations. They address the forum and say "I see a lot of x and y," "I see fanboys all over the place." "I see whiners and cryers all over the place." You just did it with your own post. I'm doing it now in this post.

So you gave your impression. Here's mine: For every anti-"fanboy" post, there are a dozen "whiner and cryer" posts. They are just as empty of the "constructive posting," that people cling so fervently to. Even the so-called "positive" posts, ones where people congregate to heap lavish praise upon TESO and Zeni, either contain a ton of, or quickly become, passive-aggression. They start with "This and this and this are GREAT!" and finish with "This ought to show all those naysayers!"

There's a lot of other ridiculous folderol that comes packaged with that too, like people using the LOL button as "dislike" instead of to label a post as funny.

Anyway, this discussion, talking about this review, is a terrific slow-globe version of the general state of this community. You've got a lot of people saying "Nuh uh! This guy is a stooopid because he's so negative!" You've got some saying "What a jerk, he needs to be more critical!" And most saying "Hmm. Tough, but fair." A bunch of infighting posts were deleted, and that's probably for the best, but it also just hides the fact that many people who participate here are unwilling, or incapable, of recognizing that their own personal experience of TESO is not the same as others' personal experience, and jump to the conclusion that because those experiences don't match, the other people are doing it wrong.

Okay, I'm a bit confused, because I believe we are closer to agreeing than you think. Unless what you are referring to as a "whiner and cryer" post is someone is complaining about ... well, all the complaining. If that is the case, then I think your ratio of one anti-fanboy post to twelve whiner-and-cryer posts is backwards and more than a little low. I don't care to get into a tallying contest with you, but I absolutely see more of the anti-fanboy side than the other, although I do agree there is plenty of both to go around. Perhaps it is just the threads we choose to read. Even then, I think we are agreeing more than disagreeing on the rest.

I have seen the "positive posts" (usually threads) you mention, and definitely agree that often they (as well as many of the "anti-fanboy" posts) are generated to refute the other "side", turning into a vicious cycle.

I agree the LOL button should be used as "hey, that was funny" rather than "lol at u, n00b".

As far as your last paragraph, look, that is just people in general. Insecurity is what makes a person lash out at another who doesn't agree vs someone who just says "Hey, they don't agree" and shrugs it off. I don't think this community is any more vicious and divided as any other MMO community --- there are some pretty nasty ones out there. In some ways it's not such a bad thing: people are passionate about what they care about. Hopefully one day those folks will learn better ways to channel that passion.

I am "referring to as a "whiner and cryer" post is someone is complaining about ... well, all the complaining." That is exactly what I'm saying. That is my perceived ratio. It's not even close. It's also reflected in the LOL versus. Awesome brigade, and in post flags and post deletions. This circle absolutely jerks toward rabid game and developer defense. It's often packaged in passive-aggression, but it's still baiting and name-calling, and it often happens preemptively.

Tallying is the only way to tell what's real versus your confirmation bias. If you don't want to do it, which you could, you have no interest in whether my view or your view more closely reflects reality. Were it allowed, I would give you over a dozen names right now of posters who are 5-star, with close to or over a thousand posts apiece, that consistently attack anyone who says that they're suffering from a bug or that they believe there is an imbalance, or just plain say they'd like a see a feature implemented. But I'd get warned or banned.

As for *your* last paragraph, I disagree. People in general do not lash out at those who disagree. In most venues, civil discussion is possible, and even prevails, despite differences of opinion. If there's rampant name-calling, and routine ad-hominem (saying someone is "moaning" is this, it's a dismissal), that's a dysfunction, and it's trace-able, to either faults in the communication systems, or a problem with general emotional temperature. Both exist here.

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

I am "referring to as a "whiner and cryer" post is someone is complaining about ... well, all the complaining." That is exactly what I'm saying. That is my perceived ratio. It's not even close. It's also reflected in the LOL versus. Awesome brigade, and in post flags and post deletions. This circle absolutely jerks toward rabid game and developer defense. It's often packaged in passive-aggression, but it's still baiting and name-calling, and it often happens preemptively.

Tallying is the only way to tell what's real versus your confirmation bias. If you don't want to do it, which you could, you have no interest in whether my view or your view more closely reflects reality. Were it allowed, I would give you over a dozen names right now of posters who are 5-star, with close to or over a thousand posts apiece, that consistently attack anyone who says that they're suffering from a bug or that they believe there is an imbalance, or just plain say they'd like a see a feature implemented. But I'd get warned or banned.

As for *your* last paragraph, I disagree. People in general do not lash out at those who disagree. In most venues, civil discussion is possible, and even prevails, despite differences of opinion. If there's rampant name-calling, and routine ad-hominem (saying someone is "moaning" is this, it's a dismissal), that's a dysfunction, and it's trace-able, to either faults in the communication systems, or a problem with general emotional temperature. Both exist here.

All I was saying is that I don't have the time to tally them up myself. If you have that information, by all means share it. I'd be more than curious to see, and will even acknowledge if I'm wrong. As for your second point, I could list quite a few as well that do just the opposite (although they may not have the 5-stars, etc. popularity credits, I will concede that). And certainly don't do anything that will get you banned.

As for civil discourse, in the real world you are correct. People generally don't act like they do on the forums, if for no other reason than they don't wish to get beat up or shot. However, on the internet and specifically on forums where they are virtually anonymous, it is very much the norm unfortunately. Again, however, I wouldn't put TESO's forums anywhere near the top of a list of outrageous forum sites. Merely my opinion.

Oh wait! Bunnurfied!!! Cuz they are SO FLUFFY!

mutharex wrote: »

PC Gamer MMO "reviews":

WAR: 86%
SW:TOR: 85%
Wildstar: 89%

Nuff said

metacritic
Warhammer online: 86%
SW:TOR: 85%
Wildstar: 82%

interesting that they are spot on to the average critic rating on 2 games. certainly pretty close on the other. one certainly cannot condemn pcgamers ratings any more than any other in the industry. of course, individuals should find a site which they agree on older games they have played, since different people like different things.

P.S. ESO:
pcgamer: 68
metacritic: 71

I honestly think he was more than generous with his review.

He left out tons of information which would deter me from ever buying the game.

Things like the FPS issues, or the lack of a reward system for achievements made in game ( ie clearing dungeons/raids ). The state of crafting, the lack of things to do in the game.

He could of harped on each top more. There is not a SINGLE item in the game that wasn't halfassed.