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Feature Change Request: Weapon Swapping
GTech_1
✭✭✭✭
From my experiences in the Beta, and in the Live client, I have noted, when giving advice to low level players, I often say:
"Just wait til weapon swap opens up at level 15, you will love it!"
To which, they respond with a variant of: "What?!? ... Why do I have to wait until level 15 to use a ranged AND a melee weapon??"
I try to explain to them how the system works. I tell them that they can still use the "other" weapon type, but that they need to pick which weapon type they want to start out with.
Unfortunately, that doesn't "cut the mustard", so to speak, for most of them.
Possible solution:
Make Weapon Swapping available at level 1, with Full tutorial support.
The tutorial could trigger when a character first picks up a new weapon type.
Here's the main reason why I think changes need to be made:
Every Old-school, Pen and Paper, Tabletop roleplayer knows that you always have Both a ranged, and a melee weapon.
Most of the folks that I have spoken to regarding this issue fall into this category ... and so do I.
Edit: I would like to retract my request to change Weapon Swapping.
My reason (also found in the thread):
@Rev Rielle
Impressive.
I had not considered this angle.
Yours is an Excellent, well reasoned response, and I fully agree with you.
I will retract the Feature Request and update the original post to reflect this, and your reasoning.
Thank you, and Well done Sir or Madam, whichever the case may be.
(+1 "Insightful" to your post)
Edited by GTech_1 on 25 June 2014 07:37 "Just wait til weapon swap opens up at level 15, you will love it!"
To which, they respond with a variant of: "What?!? ... Why do I have to wait until level 15 to use a ranged AND a melee weapon??"
I try to explain to them how the system works. I tell them that they can still use the "other" weapon type, but that they need to pick which weapon type they want to start out with.
Unfortunately, that doesn't "cut the mustard", so to speak, for most of them.
Possible solution:
Make Weapon Swapping available at level 1, with Full tutorial support.
The tutorial could trigger when a character first picks up a new weapon type.
Here's the main reason why I think changes need to be made:
Every Old-school, Pen and Paper, Tabletop roleplayer knows that you always have Both a ranged, and a melee weapon.
Most of the folks that I have spoken to regarding this issue fall into this category ... and so do I.
Edit: I would like to retract my request to change Weapon Swapping.
My reason (also found in the thread):
Rev Rielle wrote: »I think in part it's mechanic based too.
At the start your character has no skill points (obviously), so basically having one choice of weapon to improve/work-on/skill-up means your character becomes less of a 'jack-of-all-trades'. There are so many options to place skill points, even in this situation, so I think a little help from the mechanics to help new players limit these choices is helpful.
Skill-point use is probably the most important right at the beginning of the game; spread them out too much and your character can really suffer in combat. Maybe not for experienced players of MMOs or the like that know what they're doing, but for players that are new to the genre/style. And we have to think of all styles of play. Such new players could really dig themselves into a hole if they spread out their points/experience too thinly. I think limiting weapon swap, helps mitigate this problem, if but a little.
@Rev Rielle
Impressive.
I had not considered this angle.
Yours is an Excellent, well reasoned response, and I fully agree with you.
I will retract the Feature Request and update the original post to reflect this, and your reasoning.
Thank you, and Well done Sir or Madam, whichever the case may be.
(+1 "Insightful" to your post)
1
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Still hoping for something like this....http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103666/same-weapon-weapon-swap#latest
Currently weapon swap is gimmicky and can get you killed.
1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually like the fact that you don't get everything handed on a silver platter at level 1.
Weapon swap? Sure, but you gotta work for it ...
;-)5 -
GTech_1✭✭✭✭Work for what, though? The ability to *choose* to use 2 different weapons with your character concept? I wouldn't exactly call this "silver platter" treatment here lol1
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a carrot, just like any other achievement. Get to level 15, unlock weapon swap.
Just one of many goals to work towards, keeps the game more interesting that way.
Having everything available to you at level 1 is just plain boring ...Edited by SirAndy on 10 June 2014 19:263 -
GTech_1✭✭✭✭Having this available is far from "having everything available to you at level 1".
Weapon choice should never be used as a "carrot" either, especially with the supposed "Play how you want" mentality.2 -
GTech_1✭✭✭✭You are also entitled to your opinion, of course.
However, the following is not an opinion at all, it is a statement of fact:
Gating weapon choice behind a required level, in a system that proclaims "Play how you want", and "We love Roleplayers", is simply deceptive.
"Disagree" if you want, facts are facts. And facts are, by definition, immune to opinion ...1 -
Tarwin✭✭✭Work for what, though? The ability to *choose* to use 2 different weapons with your character concept? I wouldn't exactly call this "silver platter" treatment here lol
Nope, the ability to sling a bow onto your back and secure it as well as pull out another weapon without getting all tangled up within a micro second
2 -
GTech_1✭✭✭✭Work for what, though? The ability to *choose* to use 2 different weapons with your character concept? I wouldn't exactly call this "silver platter" treatment here lol
Nope, the ability to sling a bow onto your back and secure it as well as pull out another weapon without getting all tangled up within a micro second
Now this explanation, I could get behind ... If we didn't have weapon swap lag, literally getting all of us "tangled up within a micro second". However, with the current implementation, Weapon swap is simply a matter of play-style choice.1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Declaring your opinion as "fact" and then using the "fact" that it's a "fact" to validate your opinion:You are also entitled to your opinion, of course.
However, the following is not an opinion at all, it is a statement of fact:
Gating weapon choice behind a required level, in a system that proclaims "Play how you want", and "We love Roleplayers", is simply deceptive.
"Disagree" if you want, facts are facts. And facts are, by definition, immune to opinion ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
;-)Edited by SirAndy on 10 June 2014 19:581 -
GTech_1✭✭✭✭lmao ... Andy, you are ignoring both the circumstances, and context of the situation, in order to reinforce your own opinion.
If you would prefer that I include proper citations of the above quotes, I would be more than happy to do so. However, I believe that the majority of us, at this point, have already seen these statements from Zenimax.
Citations, of course, would prove the Facts that I have based my above statement upon. Hence, my statement above does not suffer from "Circular reasoning" in anyway.
Have a nice day.0 -
Skirmish840✭✭✭Lol you guys are funny.
My opinion is weapon swapping is a combat skill, something you learn to do with practice, for real, 1st you get used to your new weapons, then you get used to your second weapon, then you get really clever and can use both weapons....0 -
Aoifesan✭✭✭It's a carrot, just like any other achievement. Get to level 15, unlock weapon swap.
Just one of many goals to work towards, keeps the game more interesting that way.
Having everything available to you at level 1 is just plain boring ...
Sort of like having everything you know available to you on abilities bars would be 'just plain boring'. Instead of exciting that you are able to use 'seldom used ability only for emergencies' here and LIVE rather than die. Respawn. Change bars around for specific encounter needs. Win.
Utterly stupid mechanic.0 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Goals and skills to work for is good and should not be handed to you at level one. I like the system as is and no need to change it.1 -
Kahina✭✭✭They could swap it with Cyrodiil access. Two weapons at lvl 10 and access to Cyrodiil at lvl 15.
It would make more sense.1 -
Weapon swap? Sure, but you gotta work for it ...
;-)but you gotta work for itwork for it
People like this actually exist.1 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think in part it's mechanic based too.
At the start your character has no skill points (obviously), so basically having one choice of weapon to improve/work-on/skill-up means your character becomes less of a 'jack-of-all-trades'. There are so many options to place skill points, even in this situation, so I think a little help from the mechanics to help new players limit these choices is helpful.
Skill-point use is probably the most important right at the beginning of the game; spread them out too much and your character can really suffer in combat. Maybe not for experienced players of MMOs or the like that know what they're doing, but for players that are new to the genre/style. And we have to think of all styles of play. Such new players could really dig themselves into a hole if they spread out their points/experience too thinly. I think limiting weapon swap, helps mitigate this problem, if but a little.If you can be anything, be kind.3 -
lancepro✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »I think in part it's mechanic based too.
At the start your character has no skill points (obviously), so basically having one choice of weapon to improve/work-on/skill-up means your character becomes less of a 'jack-of-all-trades'. There are so many options to place skill points, even in this situation, so I think a little help from the mechanics to help new players limit these choices is helpful.
Skill-point use is probably the most important right at the beginning of the game; spread them out too much and your character can really suffer in combat. Maybe not for experienced players of MMOs or the like that know what they're doing, but for players that are new to the genre/style. And we have to think of all styles of play. Such new players could really dig themselves into a hole if they spread out their points/experience too thinly. I think limiting weapon swap, helps mitigate this problem, if but a little.
This.
Rocketship Builder, Pizza Expert
"I swear by my life and my love of it."
Beta Tested since 8/15/131 -
GTech_1✭✭✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »I think in part it's mechanic based too.
At the start your character has no skill points (obviously), so basically having one choice of weapon to improve/work-on/skill-up means your character becomes less of a 'jack-of-all-trades'. There are so many options to place skill points, even in this situation, so I think a little help from the mechanics to help new players limit these choices is helpful.
Skill-point use is probably the most important right at the beginning of the game; spread them out too much and your character can really suffer in combat. Maybe not for experienced players of MMOs or the like that know what they're doing, but for players that are new to the genre/style. And we have to think of all styles of play. Such new players could really dig themselves into a hole if they spread out their points/experience too thinly. I think limiting weapon swap, helps mitigate this problem, if but a little.
@Rev Rielle
Impressive.
I had not considered this angle.
Yours is an Excellent, well reasoned response, and I fully agree with you.
I will retract the Feature Request and update the original post to reflect this, and your reasoning.
Thank you, and Well done Sir or Madam, whichever the case may be.
(+1 "Insightful" to your post)
Edit: I have edited the first post, and I consider my request closed. Moderators, please feel free to close this topic at anytime. Thanks again for the valuable insight Rev Rielle Edited by GTech_1 on 25 June 2014 07:460 -
killedbyping✭✭✭✭I still insist that weapon swap should have maximum Interrupt priority and have no cool down on use what so ever.1
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Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭What the.....a NICE post, from a constructive suggestion, with friendly discussion and we came to a solution without name calling, out of topic rant and a general nice read?
Where the hell am I?? I was browsing ESO forums!
100 awesome to all in this thread.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0